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Reply #19: Abu Ghraib was not a few 'bad apples'--it was systemic [View All]

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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Abu Ghraib was not a few 'bad apples'--it was systemic
The orders came from the WH on down that torture was now acceptable for 'enemy combatants'. This torture went on for months without anything coming out, and the raping of children, reported in several reputable sources to have been documented, will probably NEVER come out. There may well be folks dissatisfied with orders, but how do you expect to ever hear of it if no one will report on it? Your arguments still are not sufficient to totally dismiss this article.
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  -American valour? All hogwash, say Indian truckers floda  Aug-02-04 12:41 PM   #0 
  - It might be ordered that way, though, for political reasons  jpgray   Aug-02-04 12:43 PM   #1 
  - I'm not going to.............  DumpGump   Aug-02-04 12:44 PM   #2 
  - Following Orders Does Not Always require Courage  atreides1   Aug-02-04 02:00 PM   #24 
  - Guess you're one of the "Send me!" clones, eh?  Voltaire99   Aug-02-04 03:52 PM   #47 
     - Your attack is hardly fair.  Redleg   Aug-02-04 10:42 PM   #69 
  - This isn't really LBN material  Caution   Aug-02-04 12:46 PM   #3 
  - Don't dismiss it yet, think for a minute--these may well be their orders  jpgray   Aug-02-04 12:53 PM   #6 
  - so what you are telling me is that there are standing orders  Caution   Aug-02-04 01:01 PM   #8 
     - The escort is a deterrent regardless of whether they stick around to fight  jpgray   Aug-02-04 01:04 PM   #9 
        - imagine away  Caution   Aug-02-04 01:19 PM   #15 
           - The military also 'doesn't rape or torture people in its prisons'  jpgray   Aug-02-04 01:20 PM   #16 
           - That doesn't make the point  Caution   Aug-02-04 01:33 PM   #18 
              - Abu Ghraib was not a few 'bad apples'--it was systemic  jpgray   Aug-02-04 01:37 PM   #19 
                 - I never stated it was a few bad apples  Caution   Aug-02-04 01:38 PM   #20 
                    - My larger point about the media reporting on this remains  jpgray   Aug-02-04 01:43 PM   #21 
                       - Are you trying to tell me that some angry mom who gets mail from her  Caution   Aug-02-04 01:51 PM   #22 
                          - The child rape is out there--yet no one knows a damn thing about it  jpgray   Aug-02-04 01:54 PM   #23 
                          - wrong.  Caution   Aug-02-04 02:02 PM   #25 
                             - My only argument is that it is possible for this account to be correct  jpgray   Aug-02-04 02:07 PM   #26 
                             - do you seriously think that somehow what I said validates this possibility  Caution   Aug-02-04 02:19 PM   #30 
                                - I don't believe it has anything to do with cowardice  jpgray   Aug-02-04 02:24 PM   #31 
                                   - I hate to do this  Caution   Aug-02-04 02:30 PM   #32 
                                   - I'm sorry, but I won't admit that it's impossible for this to be true  jpgray   Aug-02-04 02:32 PM   #33 
                                   - Well we can agree that it IS possible  Caution   Aug-02-04 02:46 PM   #39 
                                   - If the U.S. soldiers have decided that Bush put them in harms way  heidler1   Aug-02-04 05:21 PM   #52 
                                   - Maybe they weren't ordered to do it.  Dhalgren   Aug-02-04 02:34 PM   #36 
                                   - the point is im arguing against the orders  Caution   Aug-02-04 02:45 PM   #38 
                                   - me too...  grob   Aug-02-04 04:57 PM   #51 
                                   - There is another angle to the story that may not have anything to  Veggie Meathead   Aug-02-04 02:34 PM   #35 
                             - In the last years of Vietnam  Dhalgren   Aug-02-04 02:33 PM   #34 
                                - absolutely  Caution   Aug-02-04 02:43 PM   #37 
                                - I agree with you- Every Death in this CLUSTERFUCK = for nothing  saigon68   Aug-02-04 07:40 PM   #65 
                                   - Right!  Dhalgren   Aug-02-04 10:23 PM   #68 
                          - "I'm not willing to take the word of a couple of truck drivers on this one  Career Prole   Aug-02-04 07:06 PM   #64 
           - I would have though pilots prefered to bomb the right targets too...  Devils Advocate NZ   Aug-02-04 03:36 PM   #44 
           - Excellent question!  Dhalgren   Aug-02-04 03:46 PM   #46 
           - I'm with ya on this one Caution.  kymar57   Aug-02-04 07:04 PM   #63 
  - Woot woot woot!  aneerkoinos   Aug-02-04 01:14 PM   #13 
  - Why isnt it LBN?  LivingInTheBubble   Aug-02-04 02:50 PM   #40 
  - I wonder.  oneighty   Aug-02-04 04:01 PM   #48 
  - I absolutely believe it  slavkomae   Aug-02-04 12:49 PM   #4 
  - Absolutely, and aren't most the drivers civilians?  0007   Aug-02-04 08:01 PM   #67 
  - They must have orders to abandon those drivers if attacked, no?  doctorbombeigh   Aug-02-04 12:50 PM   #5 
  - Then what would be the point of guarding the convoy? n/t  demoman123   Aug-02-04 12:58 PM   #7 
  - That's why the driver's story makes no sense.  doctorbombeigh   Aug-02-04 01:05 PM   #10 
  - The presence of an escort is still a deterrent to attacking the convoy  jpgray   Aug-02-04 01:06 PM   #11 
     - Not if the reputation of the escort is to run. eom  NewYorkerfromMass   Aug-02-04 01:09 PM   #12 
        - Take two convoys  jpgray   Aug-02-04 01:15 PM   #14 
  - It's apparent that the "unbelievers" have never seen combat.  reprobate   Aug-02-04 02:19 PM   #29 
     - It is standard tacitics - you get out of the "kill zone".  Devils Advocate NZ   Aug-02-04 03:45 PM   #45 
  - what if they are cowards?  shadu   Aug-02-04 01:22 PM   #17 
  - This is a possibility.  demoman123   Aug-02-04 02:10 PM   #27 
  - Assuming soldiers aren't cowards isn't jingoistic, it's common sense.  doctorbombeigh   Aug-02-04 02:15 PM   #28 
     - It was a cowardly act.  DrWeird   Aug-02-04 02:52 PM   #41 
     - Fair comment many soldiers must be brave (or foolish) but..  LivingInTheBubble   Aug-02-04 02:57 PM   #42 
  - The American military has lacked valour for decades.  Devils Advocate NZ   Aug-02-04 03:33 PM   #43 
  - Why is it that lately...  varun   Aug-02-04 04:39 PM   #50 
  - this may just show how weak and spread out..or ..  number6   Aug-02-04 04:13 PM   #49 
  - American soldiers are no more nor less brave than other soldiers  wurzel   Aug-02-04 06:10 PM   #53 
  - I'm new here, but can offer some insight  WOJG   Aug-02-04 06:15 PM   #54 
  - In naval convoys in WWII merchant ships could be left behind  daleo   Aug-02-04 06:34 PM   #55 
     - No one wants to be killed for CHIMPANZEE  saigon68   Aug-02-04 06:36 PM   #56 
     - I can't blame anyone for that  daleo   Aug-02-04 06:43 PM   #58 
        - You forgot a lying Awol Draft Dodger.  saigon68   Aug-02-04 06:51 PM   #61 
     - Institutional racism?  WOJG   Aug-02-04 06:42 PM   #57 
        - Except where 'the enemy' is involved.  htuttle   Aug-02-04 06:48 PM   #59 
        - THEY WERE CALLED ZIPPERHEADS AND SLOPES in the Nam  saigon68   Aug-02-04 06:53 PM   #62 
        - I meant that in the most abstract sense  daleo   Aug-02-04 06:50 PM   #60 
           - We trust them with the outsourcing of our jobs...  tlcandie   Aug-02-04 07:51 PM   #66 

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