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Reply #110: voting will not make ANY difference whatsoever unless you change the political discussion [View All]

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #108
110. voting will not make ANY difference whatsoever unless you change the political discussion
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 10:58 AM by Douglas Carpenter
The New Deal only become possible after agitation in the streets created a political climate in which politicians paid attention to the demands of labor and it became possible to vote into office politicians who would carry through those demands - something respectable politicians would not do at an earlier time before the political conversation had changed. The civil rights movement did not begin with voter registration drives. Voter registrations drives only became relevant after mass action created a political culture where it became possible to elect politicians who would carry forward the demands of the civil rights movement - something respectable politicians would not do at an earlier time before the political discussion had changed. And most certainly the gay rights movement did not begin with voter registration drives - Voting only became relevant after agitation and resistance created a political climate in which politicians paid attention to the demands of the gay rights movement and it became possible to vote into office politicians who would would carry through those demands - something respectable politicians would not do at an earlier time before the political culture had changed.

If one is actually serious about wanting to break the stranglehold the financial industry holds over both political parties - it is most certainly not going to happen and respectable politicians are not going to willingly cut-off their own supply of dependable financial support that they really do need in order to get elected - until the political culture changes and public demand forces a situation where respectable politicians have no choice but to break from the stranglehold the financial industry holds over both political parties.

Already only a few weeks into this great new movement something is happening - The issues of Wall Street's stranglehold over government as well as the issue of vast income disparity has moved from the fringes only voiced by the ravings of leftist and malcontents into the mainstream of political discussion. This is truly incredible. Even Forbes is running articles about income disparity. But to break the stranglehold that Wall Street holds - and to make it even possible to vote for politicians who will address income disparity, economic injustice and corporate control - will require more than voting for politicians with their latest slick sound bites, platitudes and talking points. What is happening now may very well be the beginning of something that can change the political culture and actually make it possible to vote for politicians who will actually address the issues of income disparity, corporate control and the stranglehold of the financial industry.
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  -Occupy Wall Street protesters shut down 'Law & Order: SVU' set depicting OWS RamboLiberal  Dec-09-11 01:57 AM   #0 
  - Man....  FirstLight   Dec-09-11 02:09 AM   #1 
  - ?  Roy Rolling   Dec-09-11 11:22 AM   #119 
     - their "ripped from the headlines" business model illustrates  SemperEadem   Dec-09-11 01:10 PM   #138 
     - I agree. They tend to do the abnormal and more unrealistic that for the most part are rare events.  LiberalFighter   Dec-09-11 03:11 PM   #160 
     - What it WILL do is almost certainly guarantee that OWS will not be  RaleighNCDUer   Dec-09-11 05:02 PM   #172 
        - Because that was ever an option?  quakerboy   Dec-09-11 11:56 PM   #188 
  - Awesome!  Edweird   Dec-09-11 02:13 AM   #2 
  - "Odd" isn't the word.  Smarmie Doofus   Dec-09-11 02:14 AM   #3 
  - Just wait another 20 years  deutsey   Dec-09-11 07:10 AM   #29 
  - The  Turbineguy   Dec-09-11 12:23 PM   #128 
  - Not so odd . . .  janet118   Dec-09-11 10:13 AM   #91 
  - Or what about Dirty Harry, the ultimate revenge fantasy of the silent majority  Lars77   Dec-09-11 12:34 PM   #131 
  - Actually, the Dirty Harry killer in the original  Ken Burch   Dec-09-11 08:36 PM   #183 
  - Dragnet Blue Blue episode comes to mind  Seedersandleechers   Dec-09-11 05:26 PM   # 
  - I think they confused the characters, many of them looked more  dmr   Dec-09-11 07:49 PM   #180 
  - The "Blue Boy" looks like a Cal fan  Ken Burch   Dec-09-11 08:38 PM   #184 
  - +1. I remember. n/t  Smarmie Doofus   Dec-09-11 06:53 PM   #179 
  - It is odd they'd go against Law & Order SVU  DissedByBush   Dec-09-11 11:46 PM   #187 
  - the "they" used twice in his sentence are two sets of people.  Matariki   Dec-09-11 10:18 AM   #94 
  - Good for them. Where was Bloomberg when those tents  sabrina 1   Dec-09-11 02:17 AM   #4 
  - +1 Bloomberg is turd.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 08:48 AM   #47 
  - Excellent!  Sherman A1   Dec-09-11 02:55 AM   #5 
  - I don't think there is much to wonder about.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 08:51 AM   #48 
  - Law and Order attempted to do the RNC 2004 debacle in one of their episodes  Downtown Hound   Dec-09-11 12:08 PM   #124 
     - Plus recently, SVU lets the Corporate Scientists get their message across.  truedelphi   Dec-09-11 04:49 PM   #171 
  - Hurray! One thing OWS does not need is an SVU plot.  caseymoz   Dec-09-11 03:19 AM   #6 
  - That was my first thought. n/t  ObaMania   Dec-09-11 03:46 AM   #7 
  - You know, I've had second thoughts about this.  caseymoz   Dec-09-11 01:07 PM   #136 
  - I have found that the law and order franchise has a pro-corporate agenda  me b zola   Dec-09-11 04:23 AM   #10 
     - They have also aired plenty of episodes about corrupt cops  proud2BlibKansan   Dec-09-11 06:28 AM   #25 
     - Corrupt cops is still government.  caseymoz   Dec-09-11 01:03 PM   #135 
        - Good question. Why not do a segment on the near murders  sabrina 1   Dec-09-11 02:17 PM   #147 
     - My experience differs, re: corporate agenda.  elleng   Dec-09-11 02:32 PM   #153 
  - Those 100 patriots of the highest order, chose very wisely where to invest their energy & $$. ~nt  99th_Monkey   Dec-09-11 03:51 AM   #8 
  - Everyone go to link  me b zola   Dec-09-11 04:16 AM   #9 
  - 39% approve of OWS' actions. 61% say they are interrupting  Ilsa   Dec-09-11 06:29 AM   #26 
     - Online polls are sooooooo meaningful.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 08:53 AM   #49 
     - Artistic Expresson?  sulphurdunn   Dec-09-11 11:24 AM   #120 
     - Artistic cockcheese.  sibelian   Dec-09-11 04:28 PM   #165 
     - If you want to talk about "disruption" . . .  markpkessinger   Dec-09-11 05:59 PM   #177 
  - So much for free speech.  Quartermass   Dec-09-11 04:24 AM   #11 
  - For corporations? n/t  Wilms   Dec-09-11 04:43 AM   #12 
  - But but but,,,,corporations are people!!11!!  peace frog   Dec-09-11 05:03 AM   #17 
  - Corporations are people too.  Callisto32   Dec-09-11 11:38 AM   #121 
  - We are Dealing with It  fascisthunter   Dec-09-11 12:46 PM   #133 
     - What?  Callisto32   Dec-09-11 02:25 PM   #151 
  - If not the corporations, how about the writer and director?  caseymoz   Dec-09-11 02:31 PM   #152 
     - What utter nonsense.  sibelian   Dec-09-11 04:27 PM   #164 
        - Free speech? You know, exactly OWS' argument with the cities over their camps?  caseymoz   Dec-09-11 05:22 PM   #173 
  - LOL!  lunatica   Dec-09-11 04:46 AM   #13 
  - Besides which, something that DEPENDS upon exploitation isn't free anything in the first place.  patrice   Dec-09-11 08:59 AM   #52 
  - you're being vague  Tunkamerica   Dec-09-11 05:25 AM   #20 
  - (facepalm) with a side of (headdesk)  WilliamPitt   Dec-09-11 08:08 AM   #39 
  - Michael Moore forms corporations to make his movies  AngryAmish   Dec-09-11 08:17 AM   #43 
  - Which legitimate movements does Moore discredit through fictionalization again?  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:11 AM   #62 
     - Who decides which are legitimate movements?  AngryAmish   Dec-09-11 09:42 AM   #85 
        - Ya know there is a very easy solution to your lament.  Vinnie From Indy   Dec-09-11 11:01 AM   #111 
  - "Here we go."  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 08:55 AM   #51 
  - OWS freed them from their dependence upon exploitation. They are now free to PAY for making a profit  patrice   Dec-09-11 09:03 AM   #54 
  - Nice try.  SammyWinstonJack   Dec-09-11 09:10 AM   # 
  - dupe  SammyWinstonJack   Dec-09-11 09:10 AM   #61 
  - Considering no government entities are involved on either side, not sure what your point would be.  Pacifist Patriot   Dec-09-11 10:20 AM   #96 
  - So OWS Isn't Good Enough for the News, but It's Okay as Mind Candy Pretext?  Demeter   Dec-09-11 04:47 AM   #14 
  - I'm not conflicted at all since Law & Order is not a news show  lunatica   Dec-09-11 04:54 AM   #15 
     - Here's the dilemma  Demeter   Dec-09-11 04:56 AM   #16 
     - It's a show about sexual predators and victims  lunatica   Dec-09-11 05:10 AM   #18 
     - And you know the plot would have involved a sexual assault  proud2BlibKansan   Dec-09-11 06:50 AM   #28 
        - How do we know that?  MadrasT   Dec-09-11 10:49 AM   #109 
           - Because I've watched the show since it first came on the air  proud2BlibKansan   Dec-09-11 11:07 AM   #113 
     - Yeah, I'm with you. On the other hand...  Owlet   Dec-09-11 05:42 AM   #21 
        - Witty yet inaccurate as it is dated as hell  Bluenorthwest   Dec-09-11 07:41 AM   #32 
        - Yeah, the Catholic Church was so thrilled about all kinds of publicity that  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:00 AM   #53 
     - "It's a fictionally based drama with writers and actors and sets and scripts. "  KansDem   Dec-09-11 09:39 AM   #83 
  - K&R Law and Order is  unionworks   Dec-09-11 05:20 AM   #19 
  - There is a poll on the link about whether you aprove of the OWS protester's actions.  mucifer   Dec-09-11 06:16 AM   #22 
  - YES!  MrMickeysMom   Dec-09-11 06:17 AM   #23 
  - Amazing people - continue to amaze.  geckosfeet   Dec-09-11 06:27 AM   #24 
  - SUV  kaffy4x4   Dec-09-11 06:33 AM   #27 
  - Hilarious.  randome   Dec-09-11 08:09 AM   #40 
  - Have you made a single post here about OWS that is not passive aggressive or negative?  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:04 AM   #55 
  - Yes, I have.  randome   Dec-09-11 09:09 AM   #58 
     - Actually, you could barely concede that had changed the national conversation SOME  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:17 AM   #65 
  - SVU is about sexual assault.  Occulus   Dec-09-11 09:09 AM   #60 
  - In oher words, the show mirrors reality.  randome   Dec-09-11 09:16 AM   #64 
  - Then get involved.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:18 AM   #66 
  - Then get involved.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:18 AM   #67 
     - I'm involved here.  randome   Dec-09-11 09:23 AM   #72 
        - No, I won't spread things that I believe are incorrect. And, by the way, posting does NOT  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:25 AM   #73 
        - I have as much right to say what I think OWS should be doing  randome   Dec-09-11 09:31 AM   #77 
           - And I have a right to say you have no right to shit on what OWS is doing every chance you get  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:38 AM   #82 
              - He is "too busy" to start his own movement.  U4ikLefty   Dec-09-11 02:17 PM   #148 
        - You mean stunts like that guy in Egypt  DocMac   Dec-09-11 10:24 AM   #102 
        - Nonsennse.  kenfrequed   Dec-09-11 03:02 PM   #158 
  - And that is how the media influences perceptions.  zeemike   Dec-09-11 11:09 AM   #115 
  - Based on the foundational premise of the show, it's a reasonable assumption to make.  Pacifist Patriot   Dec-09-11 10:21 AM   #97 
  - Absolutely.  sibelian   Dec-09-11 04:32 PM   #167 
  - TV Shows and Films made in the US  Sedona   Dec-09-11 07:23 AM   #30 
  - You've gotta be fucking kidding me!  RevStPatrick   Dec-09-11 07:41 AM   #31 
  - No, not kidding  Roy Rolling   Dec-09-11 07:53 AM   #34 
  - They don't do episodes about protesters being pepper sprayed.  RevStPatrick   Dec-09-11 08:01 AM   #38 
  - 1+++  patrice   Dec-09-11 08:48 AM   #46 
  - here's what is difficult to understand  Roy Rolling   Dec-09-11 09:20 AM   #69 
     - "Law and Order" is not a strong advocate of the First Amendment, they've openly trashed it  Uncle Joe   Dec-09-11 10:21 AM   #98 
     - "I have not ever watched even ONE episode of this despicable show"  sibelian   Dec-09-11 04:31 PM   #166 
  - How do you know they didn't know what the episode was about?  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:09 AM   #59 
  - As a Union member, I completely agree, Rev.  dotymed   Dec-09-11 08:01 AM   #37 
  - Yes, rape = "fear propaganda"  WildEyedLiberal   Dec-09-11 12:27 PM   #130 
     - I'm really not sure what you mean by that.  RevStPatrick   Dec-09-11 01:54 PM   #145 
     - It's fear propaganda when you compare the % of violent crime; murder, rape robbery programs  Uncle Joe   Dec-09-11 03:01 PM   #157 
  - As a long term professional in those Unions allow me to calm  Bluenorthwest   Dec-09-11 07:54 AM   #36 
  - workers  Eljo_Don   Dec-09-11 08:11 AM   #41 
  - Another, "OWS is wrong on this ONE" post.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:05 AM   #56 
  - Bingo.  Starbucks Anarchist   Dec-09-11 05:26 PM   #175 
  - Exploitation NO...Good PR YES  Roy Rolling   Dec-09-11 07:49 AM   #33 
  - That is not the kind of story SVU does.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:20 AM   #68 
  - Good! I bet they were making an episode with an OWSer being the rapist!  Odin2005   Dec-09-11 07:54 AM   #35 
  - Or they MIGHT have been.  randome   Dec-09-11 08:12 AM   #42 
     - best not to ever give OWS credit for anything, even possibly knowing the plot of the  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:22 AM   #71 
     - Even knowing the plot doesn't excuse spending time shutting down a studio.  randome   Dec-09-11 09:25 AM   #74 
        - Who has OWS put out of work? What have you invested in OWS that you shit on it  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:41 AM   #84 
     - So you think the producers won't follow through and do the episode they want?  snooper2   Dec-09-11 01:08 PM   #137 
  - When will people unerstand that privilege isn't "free speech" because it DEPENDS upon weakness.  patrice   Dec-09-11 08:42 AM   #44 
  - Ergo, OWS's show of strength LIBERATED Law and Order SVU.  patrice   Dec-09-11 08:44 AM   #45 
  - "We are not part of corporate TV America." nt  Zorra   Dec-09-11 08:55 AM   #50 
  - +1  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:26 AM   #75 
  - hehehe  SammyWinstonJack   Dec-09-11 09:06 AM   #57 
  - Badly written news article.  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 09:12 AM   #63 
  - OWS = Fail  rethymnon   Dec-09-11 09:21 AM   #70 
  - LOL!  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:27 AM   #76 
  - yes, the OWS ONLY brought income disparity and economic equity into mainstream discussion for  Douglas Carpenter   Dec-09-11 09:32 AM   #79 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-09-11 10:46 AM   #108 
     - voting will not make ANY difference whatsoever unless you change the political discussion  Douglas Carpenter   Dec-09-11 10:56 AM   #110 
  - You couldn't possibly be more transparent.  patrice   Dec-09-11 09:55 AM   #89 
  - And in 3, 2, ....  Pacifist Patriot   Dec-09-11 10:22 AM   #99 
     - At first glance it appears that it may be too stupid to succeed = a bot, you think? nt  patrice   Dec-09-11 10:30 AM   #106 
  - It takes some effort to get on my ignore list.  DocMac   Dec-09-11 10:39 AM   #107 
  - I think you are dead wrong!  Vinnie From Indy   Dec-09-11 11:04 AM   #112 
  - "If you want change, elect more democrats"  AZ Progressive   Dec-09-11 11:13 AM   #118 
  - You will do well on DU3  U4ikLefty   Dec-09-11 02:25 PM   #150 
  - La la la la....  sibelian   Dec-09-11 04:34 PM   #168 
  - What good has electing more Democrats done for us?  Bjorn Against   Dec-09-11 05:58 PM   #176 
  - Turn down free advertising  vminfla   Dec-09-11 09:31 AM   #78 
  - Yes, that would have been better. NT  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 09:35 AM   #80 
  - It would have been useless. God made post production for things like that.  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:45 AM   #87 
     - Yeah, I misread. I thought the poster meant news coverage, not the actual TV show. NT  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 09:58 AM   #90 
  - Smarter? LOL!  No Elephants   Dec-09-11 09:44 AM   #86 
  - It's smarter to get your message across than to provide a camera crew with shrillish screaming  vminfla   Dec-09-11 04:08 PM   #163 
  - I suspect the editing room would have been able to circumvent that.  Pacifist Patriot   Dec-09-11 10:22 AM   #100 
     - Now the editing room has hours of shrillish yelling to work with  vminfla   Dec-09-11 01:14 PM   #139 
  - Gothamist was there.  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 09:37 AM   #81 
  - But you see  Quartermass   Dec-09-11 09:52 AM   #88 
  - Did the plot depict OWS in a largely positive way?  Akoto   Dec-09-11 10:15 AM   #92 
  - The episode hasn't aired. The protesters haven't seen the script.  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 10:19 AM   #95 
  - NY Times article  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 10:17 AM   #93 
  - Aside from anything else, they were distorting OWS's message  starroute   Dec-09-11 10:24 AM   #101 
  - Putting unionized media production people out of work and stifling free speech is FUN!  slackmaster   Dec-09-11 10:25 AM   #103 
  - Did you see the post above?  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-09-11 12:22 PM   #127 
     - That's fucked up like a football bat  slackmaster   Dec-09-11 12:25 PM   #129 
  - Awesome!!  BlancheSplanchnik   Dec-09-11 10:26 AM   #104 
  - If the episode were written in a way to be sympathetic to the movement, then I don't  totodeinhere   Dec-09-11 10:28 AM   #105 
  - K/R KICK  defendandprotect   Dec-09-11 11:07 AM   #114 
  - Good. I'm glad they are finally stopping corporate media from portraying them negatively...  Modern_Matthew   Dec-09-11 11:09 AM   #116 
  - Naomi Wolf had some suggestions this morning on how OWS should handle this  mmonk   Dec-09-11 11:11 AM   #117 
  - Hmmm, dialogue. Now THAT is a brilliant idea.  Pacifist Patriot   Dec-09-11 01:18 PM   #140 
     - Not according to many here  nobodyspecial   Dec-09-11 11:56 PM   #189 
  - I cannot condone this.  Callisto32   Dec-09-11 11:39 AM   #122 
  - It's not violence.  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 01:33 PM   #143 
     - Setting the cudgel of the state over someoness head like the sword of Damacles isn't violent?  Callisto32   Dec-09-11 02:32 PM   #154 
  - RIGHT ON!  robinlynne   Dec-09-11 11:58 AM   #123 
  - yeah but some of the comments are from brain dead people  PatrynXX   Dec-09-11 12:08 PM   #125 
  - Seems like an overreaction to me, but it was the city that pulled the permit, not OWS.  aikoaiko   Dec-09-11 12:11 PM   #126 
  - K & Effing R  malaise   Dec-09-11 12:34 PM   #132 
  - Oh no... they disrupted people's entertainment....  fascisthunter   Dec-09-11 12:49 PM   #134 
  - The episode will probably still air.  Eric J in MN   Dec-09-11 01:35 PM   #144 
  - so no harm at all  fascisthunter   Dec-09-11 08:24 PM   #181 
  - (continued)  unionworks   Dec-09-11 02:51 PM   #156 
     - good  fascisthunter   Dec-09-11 08:25 PM   #182 
  - On this I disagree - I used to watch this program regularly and they  jwirr   Dec-09-11 01:20 PM   #141 
  - Awesome is right!  moondust   Dec-09-11 01:24 PM   #142 
  - K&R  mvd   Dec-09-11 02:13 PM   #146 
  - Get a grip people, it's a TV SHOW!!!!  RollWithIt   Dec-09-11 02:22 PM   #149 
  - Law and order  unionworks   Dec-09-11 02:49 PM   #155 
  - "made up of union members who greatly sympathize with the OWS movement."  sibelian   Dec-09-11 04:37 PM   #169 
  - Wait, I thought putting up tents in public parks was illegal.  blackspade   Dec-09-11 03:03 PM   #159 
  - Real tents - or just stunt-double tents? TV & Movie shoots  24601   Dec-09-11 06:41 PM   #178 
     - You obviously know nothing about the OWS movement.  blackspade   Dec-09-11 10:23 PM   #185 
        - Wrong  24601   Dec-09-11 10:43 PM   #186 
  - Hooray  DonCoquixote   Dec-09-11 03:15 PM   #161 
  - OWS not for the purpose of entertainment  katty   Dec-09-11 03:33 PM   #162 
  - Bang on.  sibelian   Dec-09-11 04:38 PM   #170 
  - This is not a free speech issue...  Modern_Matthew   Dec-09-11 05:24 PM   #174 
  - Wonder if Law & Order will write the demonstration into the episode?  lynne   Dec-10-11 01:08 AM   #190 

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