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Reply #91: Sounds bad until you put it in perspective. [View All]

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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 12:25 AM
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91. Sounds bad until you put it in perspective.
I looked a few numbers up:

There are an estimated 3500 black bears in New Jersey. Assuming a standard gender split, that's around 1700 females. Black bears live around 18 years in the wild, and begin breeding around 5 years, so there are probably about 1200 breeding females in the state. Female black bears produce at least two cubs per breeding, and reproduce at least once every three years.

On average, these numbers pencil out to AT LEAST 800 new Black Bears in New Jersey every year*. Because the state is projecting that a consistent 600 bears a year will be taken by these hunts, the simple reality is that the black bear population in the state is still growing. 3500 in 2011. 3700 in 2012. 3900 in 2014. 4100 in 2015. And on. And on. These bear numbers are already higher than those noted by the first European settlers in the 1600's, and they are probably the highest numbers the area has seen since the native americans settled the region 13,000 years ago. Even they hunted the bears to keep their numbers lower than they are today.

These bears aren't going anywhere, and these hunts aren't making any kind of significant dent in their population. It's simply slowing their population growth rate down.

* I should note that ALL of my numbers have been rounded down...bears breed as early as 3 years, live as long as 25, have up to 6 cubs per litter, can breed every other year, etc. The numbers listed here are the minimums. In reality, they are probably producing far more than 800 cubs a year, but that's a safe minimum for the sake of this discussion. Their population is still growing by at least 200 bears a year, but the real number could easily be double that.
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  -257 bears killed on first day of NJ hunt villager  Dec-06-11 08:44 AM   #0 
  - Insane.  coffeenap   Dec-06-11 08:53 AM   #1 
  - Why?  SkyDaddy7   Dec-06-11 09:13 AM   #12 
     - Bears are very interesting animals  bhikkhu   Dec-06-11 09:53 AM   #22 
     - Except where there's overpopulation, there's always trouble.  sybylla   Dec-06-11 11:06 AM   #43 
     - The overpopulation is of people -- not bears.  The Stranger   Dec-06-11 11:29 AM   #47 
        - Hear hear.  Doremus   Dec-06-11 02:46 PM   #66 
        - It is a little more complicated than that. The bears are increasing even though there are more  yellowcanine   Dec-06-11 06:10 PM   #71 
     - Bears were the first medicine men. They taught the Indians. When hibernation was  zonkers   Dec-06-11 01:42 PM   #59 
     - I totally agree!  SkyDaddy7   Dec-06-11 06:32 PM   #73 
     - So right!  trayfoot   Dec-06-11 06:28 PM   #72 
     - It takes a special kind of person to point a gun at an animal and blow a hole in it's  rhett o rick   Dec-06-11 07:29 PM   #81 
        - All do respect but  freethought   Dec-06-11 08:04 PM   #84 
        - Even if your rational is correct, it takes a special kind of person to shoot a bear. nm  rhett o rick   Dec-06-11 11:23 PM   #90 
           - With that I would probably agree with you.  freethought   Dec-07-11 01:45 PM   #96 
              - I remember well a very significant point in my life.  rhett o rick   Dec-07-11 09:10 PM   #100 
                 - I am virtually certain that  freethought   Dec-07-11 11:44 PM   #101 
        - k & r  red dog 1   Dec-06-11 10:56 PM   #89 
        - +1  Mad_Dem_X   Dec-07-11 01:54 PM   #97 
  - I'm a big hunting advocate but I don't understand bear hunts  LynneSin   Dec-06-11 08:54 AM   #2 
  - Beside the meat & fur the hunts...  SkyDaddy7   Dec-06-11 09:12 AM   #9 
  - I've heard that bear meat was tasty. But I have no firsthand experience.  mainer   Dec-06-11 10:17 AM   #27 
  - I was able to try it many years ago.  freethought   Dec-06-11 01:59 PM   #60 
  - It's pretty good  EvilAL   Dec-07-11 07:46 PM   #99 
  - I am a big anti-hunting advocate and do not understand any hunts. n/t  RebelOne   Dec-06-11 01:05 PM   #55 
     - well then  sylveste   Dec-06-11 02:35 PM   #64 
        - Well, let me put it this way: I am 100% against hunting. n/t  RebelOne   Dec-06-11 04:43 PM   #69 
           - good to hear,  sylveste   Dec-06-11 07:39 PM   #82 
  - Bears and other awesome animals will be extinct  Bryn   Dec-06-11 08:55 AM   #3 
  - This hunt is designed to slow an explosive population growth of bears  hack89   Dec-06-11 09:00 AM   #4 
     - Isn't there an irony in homo sapiens defining "explosive populations" of other species?  villager   Dec-06-11 09:03 AM   #5 
     - +1  handmade34   Dec-06-11 09:11 AM   #8 
     - A privilege of being the apex predator I suppose. nt  hack89   Dec-06-11 09:13 AM   #11 
     - Like the privilege of eventually destroying the biosphere that sustains you?  villager   Dec-06-11 09:15 AM   #13 
     - The bear population is still growing - nature is winning this particular battle.  hack89   Dec-06-11 09:25 AM   #16 
        - My Father refused to hunt bear..He like wearing clothes when he went hunting  happyslug   Dec-06-11 11:02 AM   #42 
           - And since the NRA supports the Right to Arm Bears, it can get dangerous in the woods. nt  hack89   Dec-06-11 11:50 AM   #49 
     - Much like a bank CEO survives and thrives while the less "fortunate" become statistics.  LanternWaste   Dec-06-11 10:17 AM   #28 
     - Since the bear population is steadily growing, I am not sure what your point is. nt  hack89   Dec-06-11 10:33 AM   #34 
     - That hasn't done much for tigers nt  NoGOPZone   Dec-06-11 12:28 PM   #52 
        - They aren't at the apex. nt  hack89   Dec-06-11 12:43 PM   #54 
           - Tigers aren't apex predators? Interesting nt  NoGOPZone   Dec-06-11 01:06 PM   #56 
              - Not in the world of man. nt  hack89   Dec-06-11 01:30 PM   #57 
                 - OK, I've got it. You've introduced your own definition.  NoGOPZone   Dec-06-11 01:40 PM   #58 
                    - No - you need to go back to pick up the context of the discussion  hack89   Dec-06-11 02:01 PM   #61 
                       - I didn't know the term was subject to context  NoGOPZone   Dec-06-11 02:24 PM   #62 
                          - Misinterpretation is guaranteed when you jump into the middle of conversations.  hack89   Dec-06-11 03:26 PM   #68 
                             - Or when you invent your own definitions  NoGOPZone   Dec-06-11 06:59 PM   #75 
                                - You are really sarcasm challenged, aren't you?  hack89   Dec-06-11 07:07 PM   #76 
                                   - I'm doubting you know the definition of an apex predator.  NoGOPZone   Dec-06-11 07:13 PM   #77 
                                      - So man is not the ultimate predator in the world - got it. n  hack89   Dec-06-11 09:04 PM   #85 
                                      - Look - I gave a smart ass answer to a post  hack89   Dec-06-11 09:07 PM   #87 
     - +1  yellerpup   Dec-06-11 09:25 AM   #15 
     - +10  emilyg   Dec-06-11 09:30 AM   #18 
     - So very true.  Fair Witness   Dec-06-11 09:37 AM   #20 
     - Yes. The cognitive dissonance is astounding...  truebrit71   Dec-06-11 10:08 AM   #24 
     - Agreed. eom  a la izquierda   Dec-06-11 10:15 AM   #26 
     - Heh. When I lived in northern NJ as a child, I walked through wooded paths to school.  NCarolinawoman   Dec-06-11 02:46 PM   #65 
     - I live in central New Jersey  DontTreadOnMe   Dec-06-11 09:05 AM   #6 
        - Huge deer population? You mean because they killed... too many predators?  villager   Dec-06-11 09:16 AM   #14 
        - With growing bear and coyote populations there are plenty of predators.  hack89   Dec-06-11 09:30 AM   #17 
           - "the bigger problem is fewer hunters" -- restore ecosystems with more hunting!  villager   Dec-06-11 10:37 AM   #35 
           - How do you propose to maintain animal populations at sustainable levels?  hack89   Dec-06-11 10:41 AM   #38 
              - more wilderness -- obviously human encroachment leads to these "problems"  villager   Dec-06-11 10:45 AM   #39 
                 - That might be a problem in New Jersey, don't you think? nt  hack89   Dec-06-11 10:48 AM   #40 
                 - Well, will it stop you from opposing the next subdivision/shopping mall in the next "undeveloped"  villager   Dec-06-11 11:51 AM   #50 
                    - We have an active land trust that I support with time and money  hack89   Dec-06-11 12:02 PM   #51 
                       - ...for which you are to be applauded!  villager   Dec-06-11 07:42 PM   #83 
                 - +100  Auntie Bush   Dec-06-11 11:15 AM   #45 
           - If there are "plenty of predators" wouldn't the deer population be in check?  Gormy Cuss   Dec-06-11 12:38 PM   #53 
        - Agreed  JustAnotherGen   Dec-06-11 10:55 AM   #41 
  - What do they do with the dead bears?  Glorfindel   Dec-06-11 09:09 AM   #7 
  - Just breaks my heart.  sinkingfeeling   Dec-06-11 09:12 AM   #10 
  - That is not hunting, it's just killing. Hunting is getting food...  Fair Witness   Dec-06-11 09:36 AM   #19 
  - Non-violence  Roy Rolling   Dec-06-11 09:52 AM   #21 
  - Actually the main cause of the increase is deer, is tied in with increase in deer food  happyslug   Dec-06-11 11:45 AM   #48 
     - A thoughtful and informative post. n/t  Psephos   Dec-06-11 10:14 PM   #88 
  - Shooting a Bear over a pile of Donuts is not Hunting  formercia   Dec-06-11 10:04 AM   #23 
  - Don't even get me started  Highway61   Dec-06-11 10:13 AM   #25 
  - Plenty of Bears  Roy Ellefson   Dec-06-11 10:21 AM   #29 
  - I lived in an area of Syracuse, NY that you could not call rural  zalinda   Dec-06-11 10:21 AM   #30 
  - There were two deer in my back yard on two separate days last week  FarCenter   Dec-06-11 02:32 PM   #63 
  - jeebus  Kali   Dec-06-11 10:22 AM   #31 
  - There is wildlife in new jersey?  Muskypundit   Dec-06-11 10:25 AM   #32 
  - It's interesting how some get their jollies.  onehandle   Dec-06-11 10:27 AM   #33 
  - +1  villager   Dec-06-11 10:38 AM   #36 
  - no worries. think of it as practice ....  marasinghe   Dec-06-11 07:21 PM   #79 
  - I shot a bear once  tularetom   Dec-06-11 10:40 AM   #37 
  - Damn that is a lot of bears for a state the size of NJ  MicaelS   Dec-06-11 11:10 AM   #44 
  - I drove through part of New Jersey the other day.  onehandle   Dec-06-11 11:28 AM   #46 
  - Here is a slightly different take on the situation on the side of the real hunters  left on green only   Dec-06-11 03:16 PM   #67 
  - In my area of WV, bear hunters are the most rancid people.  tabasco   Dec-06-11 05:38 PM   #70 
  - Humanity going too far  goforit   Dec-06-11 06:55 PM   #74 
  - Do people eat bear?  madokie   Dec-06-11 07:19 PM   #78 
  - Some do.  freethought   Dec-07-11 01:38 PM   #95 
     - A bear better get a good look at me before I see him if he wants to know what I look like  madokie   Dec-07-11 05:11 PM   #98 
  - Ugh  otohara   Dec-06-11 07:22 PM   #80 
  - Wow, some real polarization on this thread.  freethought   Dec-06-11 09:06 PM   #86 
  - Sounds bad until you put it in perspective.  Xithras   Dec-07-11 12:25 AM   #91 
  - Bear meat is excellent, not unlike roast beef -  lynne   Dec-07-11 06:53 AM   #92 
  - Those poor bears  Luciferous   Dec-07-11 06:57 AM   #93 
  - Poor creatures.  lonestarnot   Dec-07-11 07:40 AM   #94 

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