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Reply #20: Obviously bush sucks, but no, fast and furious and WR were by no means the same - and this proves it [View All]

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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Obviously bush sucks, but no, fast and furious and WR were by no means the same - and this proves it
Headlined "Meeting of the attorney general with Mexican Attorney General Medina Mora," the briefing paper informed Mukasey that the tactic had been tried unsuccessfully but that the ATF wanted to try again and wanted Mukasey to persuade Mexico's attorney general to provide a team of corruption-free Mexican agents who would assist in the effort. Perhaps implied but not fully detailed in this document was the reason for the failure _ that Mexican authorities south of the border fell down on the job, claiming they didn't see the vehicle carrying the guns that the ATF agents had alerted them to.


http://azstarnet.com/news/national/ap-exclusive-second-...

So there, under WR, we have:

ATF attempted to interdict the guns.

ATF attempted to track the guns.

ATF attempted to follow the suspected traffickers to learn who they were dealing with.

ATF informed Mexican authorities about the traffickers or the guns headed their way.

ATF informed their own agents in Mexico about the traffickers or the guns.

Whereas under fast and furious we have:

Soon the scandalous truth came out. It was so shocking that the atf agents couldnt believe it. When it proved out, they were profoundly embarrassed about their country. They were deeply apologetic to their Mexican counterparts. They scrambled to distance themselves from what had happened. I hope they understand that this was kept secret from most of the atf, including me and my colleagues in Mexico, said Darren Gil, the atf attach to Mexico.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=8786.7541.0.0

Gil said when he first queried ATF officials in Phoenix, where the program was run, they told him the bare minimum. According to Gil, George Gillett Jr., then the acting special agent in charge, said, "We have an ongoing investigation. Thanks for calling."

He also questioned ATF headquarters in Washington, Gil said, and was told, "They have it under control."

As he learned what had gone wrong, Gil said, he realized that ATF officials did not want Pascual to know about the operation, and that ATF feared the Mexican government would find out and lodge a formal complaint.

Gil recalled "screaming and yelling" with his Washington superiors. "It's inconceivable to me to even allow weapons to knowingly cross an international border," he said.

Gil and Canino said they later were advised that senior ATF leaders, including acting Director Kenneth Melson, as well as Department of Justice officials and the U.S. attorney's office in Phoenix, all had approved Fast and Furious. Melson said it was "providing some good intelligence" on gun smuggling.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/26/nation/la-na-fa...

Heres Darren Gil in front of the whole world:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360785n

So really, when you talk about "wide receiver" versus "gunwalker", you're talking apples and oranges, since NO MECHANISM was used, attempted, or even discussed where gunwalker is concerned.

In fact, David Voth (iirc) was said to have been "giddy" when F&F weapons began turning up at crime scenes:

"The supervisor of Operation Fast and Furious was jovial, if not, not giddy but just delighted about walked guns showing up at crime scenes in Mexico according to an ATF agent."

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content...

Its just as I said:

Under fast and furious:

ATF made no attempt to interdict the guns.

ATF made no attempt to track the guns.

ATF made no attempt to follow the suspected traffickers to learn who they were dealing with.

ATF actually purchased some guns which they apparently transferred to traffickers.

ATF did not inform Mexican authorities about the traffickers or the guns headed their way.

ATF did not inform their own agents in Mexico about the traffickers or the guns.

So again:

In what sort of fantasy land are those two operations even remotely able to be characterized as "the same thing"?
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