You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #20: Obviously bush sucks, but no, fast and furious and WR were by no means the same - and this proves it [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Obviously bush sucks, but no, fast and furious and WR were by no means the same - and this proves it
Headlined "Meeting of the attorney general with Mexican Attorney General Medina Mora," the briefing paper informed Mukasey that the tactic had been tried unsuccessfully but that the ATF wanted to try again and wanted Mukasey to persuade Mexico's attorney general to provide a team of corruption-free Mexican agents who would assist in the effort. Perhaps implied but not fully detailed in this document was the reason for the failure _ that Mexican authorities south of the border fell down on the job, claiming they didn't see the vehicle carrying the guns that the ATF agents had alerted them to.


http://azstarnet.com/news/national/ap-exclusive-second-...

So there, under WR, we have:

ATF attempted to interdict the guns.

ATF attempted to track the guns.

ATF attempted to follow the suspected traffickers to learn who they were dealing with.

ATF informed Mexican authorities about the traffickers or the guns headed their way.

ATF informed their own agents in Mexico about the traffickers or the guns.

Whereas under fast and furious we have:

Soon the scandalous truth came out. It was so shocking that the atf agents couldnt believe it. When it proved out, they were profoundly embarrassed about their country. They were deeply apologetic to their Mexican counterparts. They scrambled to distance themselves from what had happened. I hope they understand that this was kept secret from most of the atf, including me and my colleagues in Mexico, said Darren Gil, the atf attach to Mexico.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=8786.7541.0.0

Gil said when he first queried ATF officials in Phoenix, where the program was run, they told him the bare minimum. According to Gil, George Gillett Jr., then the acting special agent in charge, said, "We have an ongoing investigation. Thanks for calling."

He also questioned ATF headquarters in Washington, Gil said, and was told, "They have it under control."

As he learned what had gone wrong, Gil said, he realized that ATF officials did not want Pascual to know about the operation, and that ATF feared the Mexican government would find out and lodge a formal complaint.

Gil recalled "screaming and yelling" with his Washington superiors. "It's inconceivable to me to even allow weapons to knowingly cross an international border," he said.

Gil and Canino said they later were advised that senior ATF leaders, including acting Director Kenneth Melson, as well as Department of Justice officials and the U.S. attorney's office in Phoenix, all had approved Fast and Furious. Melson said it was "providing some good intelligence" on gun smuggling.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/26/nation/la-na-fa...

Heres Darren Gil in front of the whole world:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360785n

So really, when you talk about "wide receiver" versus "gunwalker", you're talking apples and oranges, since NO MECHANISM was used, attempted, or even discussed where gunwalker is concerned.

In fact, David Voth (iirc) was said to have been "giddy" when F&F weapons began turning up at crime scenes:

"The supervisor of Operation Fast and Furious was jovial, if not, not giddy but just delighted about walked guns showing up at crime scenes in Mexico according to an ATF agent."

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content...

Its just as I said:

Under fast and furious:

ATF made no attempt to interdict the guns.

ATF made no attempt to track the guns.

ATF made no attempt to follow the suspected traffickers to learn who they were dealing with.

ATF actually purchased some guns which they apparently transferred to traffickers.

ATF did not inform Mexican authorities about the traffickers or the guns headed their way.

ATF did not inform their own agents in Mexico about the traffickers or the guns.

So again:

In what sort of fantasy land are those two operations even remotely able to be characterized as "the same thing"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
  -Darrell Issa not joining calls for Eric Holder to quit over Fast and Furious alp227  Dec-02-11 09:35 PM   #0 
  - Of course he won't. He wants Holder to stay right where he is.  TheWraith   Dec-02-11 09:38 PM   #1 
  - article says nothing about what caused Issa's change of mind - F&F goes back to BushCo days  wordpix   Dec-02-11 09:42 PM   #2 
  - Except for that whole  Abq_Sarah   Dec-02-11 10:00 PM   #8 
     - maybe because the leftover bush/rove sops couldn't handle any oversight  certainot   Dec-02-11 10:10 PM   #10 
  - Occam's Razor says you're right. n/t  Psephos   Dec-02-11 09:43 PM   #3 
  - Issa's after bigger fish.  razorman   Dec-02-11 09:44 PM   #4 
  - ISSA is the  Iliyah   Dec-02-11 09:55 PM   #5 
  - Issa is a "big fish" himself .  jaysunb   Dec-02-11 09:55 PM   #6 
     - somehow, the scams and arson just weren't enough to put him in jail  wordpix   Dec-02-11 09:58 PM   #7 
  - FandF is another in a long line of BS that only exists because the left ignores talk radio  certainot   Dec-02-11 10:06 PM   #9 
  - +infinity!!!!!!!!!!!  BumRushDaShow   Dec-03-11 07:42 AM   #14 
  - Did Holder allow the guns to be trafficked? If so, why?  earcandle   Dec-02-11 10:52 PM   #11 
  - It's not really clear right now.  TheWraith   Dec-04-11 01:02 PM   #21 
  - I say, we need an Occupy Issa...  SoapBox   Dec-03-11 12:13 AM   #12 
  - Issa's district, California's 49th, is a heavily red one though.  alp227   Dec-03-11 12:16 AM   #13 
     - Plus he's insanely wealthy.  TheWraith   Dec-04-11 01:03 PM   #22 
  - As long as the Administration is closing dispensaries, not much else matters.  MindPilot   Dec-03-11 09:06 AM   #15 
  - That's because the ATF was doing the same thing under Bush - and Issa is protecting his own  jpak   Dec-03-11 09:33 AM   #16 
  - No, they really weren't.  beevul   Dec-04-11 11:55 AM   #18 
     - Yes they really were - and Bush sucks  jpak   Dec-04-11 11:57 AM   #19 
        - Obviously bush sucks, but no, fast and furious and WR were by no means the same - and this proves it  beevul   Dec-04-11 12:38 PM   #20 
  - I hate having to agree withy Issa about anything. nt  bemildred   Dec-03-11 01:08 PM   #17 
 

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC