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Reply #9: No, it isn't. The economic system exists at the point of production. [View All]

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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No, it isn't. The economic system exists at the point of production.
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 07:56 PM by Fantastic Anarchist
With Proudhon, the workers freely associated and produced based on the Labor Theory of Value. They each, in turn, received compensation according to the value of their labor. The surplus value wasn't stolen by some capitalist (which is capitalism), but redistributed back to labor.

So, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

In fact, Proudhon's Mutualism came from his observations of the militant Lyon workers controlling their workplace, and eventually developed to be the basis for free-market socialism (not to be confused with capitalism) and Participatory Economics (PARECON).

Edit to add: I'm not completely wedded to the entire concept of Mutualism, but I do like the general concept, and I like the idea of his Bank of Exchange that would provide loans at no interest (only charging the cost of administration), so that those producing and innovating would contribute back to society - since the bank would not be making a profit, and since anyone with an idea would have a loan in order to actually pursue it.

I consider myself more in line with the collectivist anarchist, Mikhail Bakunin but meld all of the anarchist variants from individualist (which were still socialists) to the anarchist communists and anarcho-syndicalist. I think all of the variants are important to study.
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  -Occupy SF to Open People's Reserve Credit Union Newsjock  Dec-02-11 06:18 PM   #0 
  - That is fantastic!!!  Lost-in-FL   Dec-02-11 06:24 PM   #1 
  - + 99 %  Kaleko   Dec-02-11 06:55 PM   #4 
  - how do i start an account?  roguevalley   Dec-03-11 03:04 PM   #56 
  - Cool!  SoapBox   Dec-02-11 06:40 PM   #2 
  - This will get the Feds after them.  Quartermass   Dec-02-11 06:43 PM   #3 
  - feds can't touch them  PatrynXX   Dec-02-11 09:21 PM   #15 
  - Why would the feds go after a credit union? They aren't a threat to the establishment...  reACTIONary   Dec-03-11 09:57 AM   #42 
  - Now this is practical and necessary.  aquart   Dec-02-11 07:04 PM   #5 
  - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon tried to enact this idea while developing his theory on Mutualism.  Fantastic Anarchist   Dec-02-11 07:13 PM   #6 
  - And also ...  Fantastic Anarchist   Dec-02-11 07:16 PM   #7 
  - It's still capitalism.  wandago   Dec-02-11 07:35 PM   #8 
     - No, it isn't. The economic system exists at the point of production.  Fantastic Anarchist   Dec-02-11 07:50 PM   #9 
     - I'm not a mutualist but I find it's useful to debunk capitalist myths.  joshcryer   Dec-02-11 10:26 PM   #17 
     - Why doesn't the "lesser evil" apply here? Certainly better than BofA or Citibank?  defendandprotect   Dec-02-11 11:57 PM   #24 
        - Sometimes you have to work with the conditions you are given.  Fantastic Anarchist   Dec-03-11 11:24 AM   #47 
        - ... and presume you understood I meant "uninvent the dollar bill" ... ????  defendandprotect   Dec-03-11 01:34 PM   #51 
           - I understood what you were striving for = ....  Fantastic Anarchist   Dec-03-11 05:08 PM   #66 
        - Yep, my thoughts for some time, we need a system, so to say, to operate  RKP5637   Dec-03-11 03:36 PM   #61 
        - Great question -- and our Founders warned of "dishonest men" -- that's why we have Bill of Rights --  defendandprotect   Dec-04-11 12:24 AM   #68 
        - Absolutely it applies, but are they lesser evil than any other Credit Union?  joshcryer   Dec-03-11 04:45 PM   #65 
           - We'll see, but obviously concentration of all of us is more on ridding ourselves of corporatism....  defendandprotect   Dec-04-11 12:25 AM   #69 
     - K&R n/t  AntiFascist   Dec-03-11 01:25 AM   #28 
     - No. They don't have to compete  lunatica   Dec-03-11 03:19 PM   #57 
     - I'm nowhere near as informed ...  watajob   Dec-03-11 03:33 PM   #60 
        - You touched on something I've always felt. Any "ism" can become corrupt, be  RKP5637   Dec-03-11 03:45 PM   #63 
        - Fair enough ...  Fantastic Anarchist   Dec-03-11 05:11 PM   #67 
  - +1  joshcryer   Dec-02-11 10:25 PM   #16 
  - Ooh, very interesting!  arcane1   Dec-02-11 07:53 PM   #10 
  - Um...they become bankers?  randome   Dec-02-11 07:57 PM   #11 
     - That's why I said I hope it's done right  arcane1   Dec-02-11 08:50 PM   #13 
     - In the present context that becomes a nasty assertion.  RUMMYisFROSTED   Dec-03-11 09:28 AM   #39 
     - alternative to commercial banks.  bettyellen   Dec-03-11 01:06 PM   #49 
        - Yeah, I heard about those alternatives.  randome   Dec-03-11 02:06 PM   #53 
  - excellent!  unkachuck   Dec-02-11 08:38 PM   #12 
  - I like it!  drm604   Dec-02-11 09:01 PM   #14 
  - Cool! I think I will join! How about you?  earcandle   Dec-02-11 10:40 PM   #18 
  - Great idea...  midnight   Dec-02-11 11:27 PM   #19 
  - This will be successful  DissedByBush   Dec-02-11 11:42 PM   #20 
  - excellent!  2banon   Dec-02-11 11:50 PM   #21 
  - Fantastic! I've been having a hard time moving my money.  tblue   Dec-02-11 11:52 PM   #22 
  - Think we need to statr replacing some National banks with OWS banks -- !!  defendandprotect   Dec-02-11 11:54 PM   #23 
  - Can we get a TV Box station too?  lonestarnot   Dec-02-11 11:58 PM   #25 
  - Great Idea!  h2ebits   Dec-03-11 12:33 AM   #26 
  - I think the main part of the reason for the low unemployment  eilen   Dec-03-11 06:14 AM   #32 
  - Outstanding! ... Thank you.  Bozita   Dec-03-11 01:11 AM   #27 
  - The best way to fight them........take away the money....their power!  southerncrone   Dec-03-11 01:50 AM   #29 
  - It is the happy, it is the glee!  Fire Walk With Me   Dec-03-11 04:42 AM   #30 
  - Great idea  Magoo48   Dec-03-11 05:42 AM   #31 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-03-11 06:26 AM   #33 
  - Salut!  marmar   Dec-03-11 06:37 AM   #34 
  - Credit Unions are in my blood-but I wonder  TexasProgresive   Dec-03-11 08:07 AM   #35 
  - Excellent!! K&R  hwmnbn   Dec-03-11 08:20 AM   #36 
  - "Merry Christmas MISTER POTTER..........".  Chipper Chat   Dec-03-11 08:30 AM   #37 
  - Great idea.  lsewpershad   Dec-03-11 08:58 AM   #38 
  - occupy!  Huey P. Long   Dec-03-11 09:30 AM   #40 
  - Outstanding!  SammyWinstonJack   Dec-03-11 09:43 AM   #41 
  - Brilliant!  JNelson6563   Dec-03-11 10:04 AM   #43 
  - Can folks in Oakland invest in this?  wryter2000   Dec-03-11 10:15 AM   #44 
  - K&R  Eyerish   Dec-03-11 10:27 AM   #45 
  - .  patrice   Dec-03-11 10:44 AM   #46 
  - K & R !!!  WillyT   Dec-03-11 12:33 PM   #48 
  - I love it!  AnnieK401   Dec-03-11 01:20 PM   #50 
  - This is great! nt  Sarah Ibarruri   Dec-03-11 01:55 PM   #52 
  - I'd be interested to see what their lending standards are.  hughee99   Dec-03-11 02:32 PM   #54 
  - Wonderful!  sandyj999   Dec-03-11 02:48 PM   #55 
  - I will seriously consider banking with them when they set up banks in Oakland  lunatica   Dec-03-11 03:25 PM   #58 
  - K&R !!! n/t  RKP5637   Dec-03-11 03:27 PM   #59 
  - Wow, that's great! nt  valerief   Dec-03-11 03:39 PM   #62 
  - On the one hand, its a neat thing  quakerboy   Dec-03-11 03:56 PM   #64 
  - Kick  mvd   Dec-04-11 07:33 AM   #70 

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