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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
66. Us vs EU
Well, I have to give you a yes and a no on that. In Florida, we have a good deal of European Immigrants, many of whom are Muslim, and while they were born in places like Pakistan or Kuwait, they act more "English" than many of the Brits do. Indeed, it is funny to be in some British owned "Irish pub", overlooking some Florida tourist attraction, and see some modern English "yob" say "fuck the fucking queen!" while Africans and Arabs eating their fish and chips look horrified at the thought. My point is that even in the EU, there is a melting pot, though it is not perhaps as aggressive or deliberate as the US model.

However, there is an ugly truth that is as true in the US as it is in the EU. For a variety of reasons, some real, some bullshit, the "White, Rural" types feel threatened. They feel that their politicians have lied them into a corner, which they indeed have. However, they overlook the fact that the Elite class has been using urban dwellers, especially nonwhite urban dwellers as a scapegoat for years. There is also a sad case where Unions, which can and should be the bleeding edge of the left, tend to demonize immigrants. I grew up Puerto Rican in New Jersey, and the same Italians and Irish that were not that much higher than us on the social ladder would beat us up, often with the nodding approval of union leaders and priests. I still remember the nasty sermon one priest gave about "those people."

In the end, the solution is to offer your culture to the immigrant, and actually be willing to let the immigrant affect the culture. For example, there is a famous Swedish chef named Marcus Samuelson. He was born in Ethiopia, but is Swedish, and on shows, acts as an ambassador of Scandinavian culture. America let's its culture be shaped by immigrants, and we shape them,. which is why we have Sushi bars and Middle eat style Kebab shops on the same block. Granted, there are many Americans, most of them GOP, who feel this is awful, they want some pure white city on a hill that never was, and a confederate states that thankfully never was. But humanity can be bigger, allowing for people whose culture is not some happenstance of birth, but a choice of one's mind.
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  -Apartheid row at Norwegian school after it segregates ethnic pupils Judi Lynn  Nov-25-11 02:59 PM   #0 
  - Interesting. Puts a different light on the shootings over there. They  jwirr   Nov-25-11 03:16 PM   #1 
  - Judi Lynn  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 05:24 PM   #2 
  - Is this some kind of code phrase?  Ash_F   Nov-25-11 05:40 PM   #3 
  - Ash_F  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 06:23 PM   #4 
  - "We doesn't have all this "hate-radio" in our airwaves"  boppers   Nov-25-11 08:33 PM   #34 
  - boppers  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 08:58 PM   #37 
  - One last comment before I leave for the night.  Ash_F   Nov-25-11 11:45 PM   #51 
     - Ash_F  Diclotican   Nov-26-11 09:24 AM   #54 
        - Again you dodge the question about the racist propaganda line you used  Ash_F   Nov-26-11 12:35 PM   #59 
           - Ash_F  Diclotican   Nov-26-11 01:29 PM   #60 
              - I speak two languages, my parents language was my first and English was my second  Ash_F   Nov-26-11 01:44 PM   #62 
  - You are rude. Diclotican has been on DU for many years & his insights are invaluable.  scarletwoman   Nov-25-11 06:49 PM   #7 
  - scarletwoman  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 07:05 PM   #9 
  - You misunderstood scarletwoman's post. She was defending you  tblue37   Nov-25-11 07:17 PM   #12 
  - tblue37  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 07:24 PM   #15 
  - Scarlettwoman was calling Ash_F rude...  awoke_in_2003   Nov-25-11 07:23 PM   #14 
  - awoke_in_2003  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 07:24 PM   #16 
  - Dear Diclotican, it was not you I was calling "rude", it was Ash_F.  scarletwoman   Nov-25-11 07:28 PM   #18 
     - scarletwoman  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 07:47 PM   #21 
        - I was not offended at all. One of my greatest regrets is that I do not know how to speak Norwegian.  scarletwoman   Nov-25-11 08:31 PM   #33 
           - scarletwoman  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 08:46 PM   #36 
  - Exactly how is segregating children by ethnicity in schools supposed to aid in assimilation?  entanglement   Nov-25-11 10:00 PM   #42 
  - entanglement  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 10:09 PM   #44 
     - Good to hear that  entanglement   Nov-25-11 10:57 PM   #47 
        - entanglement  Diclotican   Nov-26-11 09:27 AM   #55 
  - People can be wrong for many years.  Ash_F   Nov-25-11 10:17 PM   #45 
  - Agree...  IthinkThereforeIAM   Nov-26-11 11:03 AM   #56 
  - The country's GOVERNMENT made that decision  lbrtbell   Nov-25-11 09:28 PM   #40 
  - Do you have a link for this?  Ash_F   Nov-25-11 11:15 PM   #49 
  - Your comment is somewhat rude and shows ignorance.  Yo_Mama   Nov-25-11 09:29 PM   #41 
     - That is so gracious. I was exactly right. nt  Ash_F   Nov-25-11 10:50 PM   #46 
  - Can we assume these kids were born in Norway?  Prometheus Bound   Nov-25-11 06:29 PM   #5 
  - if they are born there, but still won't integrate, then yes, it is an issue.  provis99   Nov-25-11 06:33 PM   #6 
     - But D is talking about the first generation.  Prometheus Bound   Nov-25-11 07:37 PM   #20 
     - Prometheus Bound  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 07:56 PM   #22 
        - In Oslo there are plenty of 3rd 4th gen immigrants who do not identify as Norwegians  Lars77   Nov-25-11 08:23 PM   #28 
     - Integration is a two way street. In the U.S., for example, "ghettos" of various kinds  No Elephants   Nov-25-11 08:22 PM   #27 
  - There are plenty immigrants who came to America and never learned Enligh  SpartanDem   Nov-25-11 07:08 PM   #10 
  - SpartanDem  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 07:37 PM   #19 
  - We're better at integrating people  XemaSab   Nov-25-11 07:10 PM   #11 
  - The U.S. has npt been all that great at integrating, especially non-whites.  No Elephants   Nov-25-11 08:25 PM   #29 
  - Except for that electing a black President thing.  Nye Bevan   Nov-25-11 11:14 PM   #48 
     - Nye Bevan  Diclotican   Nov-26-11 09:05 AM   #53 
  - Part of the reason for America being "better at integration" is that anyone can be an American.  Spider Jerusalem   Nov-26-11 01:56 AM   #52 
  - There are different degrees of 'integration'  Samba   Nov-25-11 07:25 PM   #17 
  - This is a long standing problem with no obvious solution  grantcart   Nov-26-11 11:19 AM   #57 
  - I've said the shooting were just tip of iceberg,  SpartanDem   Nov-25-11 06:53 PM   #8 
  - SpartanDem  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 07:23 PM   #13 
     - I appreciate the feedback  DonCoquixote   Nov-25-11 08:05 PM   #23 
        - Not democratic, but welfare state perhaps?  Lars77   Nov-25-11 08:15 PM   #25 
        - Lars77  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 08:30 PM   #31 
        - That was a classic progress party play  Lars77   Nov-25-11 08:35 PM   #35 
           - Lars77  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 09:05 PM   #38 
        - Lars77  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 08:30 PM   #32 
        - DonCoquixote  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 08:20 PM   #26 
  - I have some thoughts of this subject..  Lars77   Nov-25-11 08:09 PM   #24 
  - Separate but equal  Samba   Nov-25-11 09:25 PM   #39 
  - Samba  Diclotican   Nov-25-11 10:07 PM   #43 
     - Very interesting...  Dan   Nov-26-11 08:23 PM   #65 
  - "abandoning their own culture" needs more definition  Ash_F   Nov-26-11 01:33 PM   #61 
  - Ash_F  Lars77   Nov-26-11 07:51 PM   #63 
  - The police stats from just Oslo support Lars' point that rape is done by non-Norwegian  riderinthestorm   Nov-26-11 08:09 PM   #64 
     - No way that is true. Do you have any actual statistics instead of links to stormfronters?  Ash_F   Nov-29-11 04:00 AM   #67 
  - Us vs EU  DonCoquixote   Nov-26-11 09:46 PM   #66 
  - The right wing anywhere. Grrr.  No Elephants   Nov-25-11 08:28 PM   #30 
  - Diclotican and Lars77  Book Lover   Nov-25-11 11:25 PM   #50 
     - Agreed. I just read through the entire thread and here you are, saying exactly what I felt!  riderinthestorm   Nov-26-11 12:35 PM   #58 
 

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