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Reply #24: I have some thoughts of this subject.. [View All]

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Lars77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-25-11 08:09 PM
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24. I have some thoughts of this subject..
First of all, people cant agree on what "integration" means. To some people it simply means that people who come agree to a fundamental set of principles, such as freedom of speech, equality etc. This is what the US does.

But others, and this applies especially to conservative Europeans, integration means assimilation. It means people abandoning their own culture and completely assimilating into the native culture of the country.


I lived in Oslo most of my life, and i have to admit that Norwegians are very conservtive in this regard, more so than we realize. You cannot compare it to the United States, which is a country that is made to accept immigrants by design.

Norway and other Scandinavian countries have never really had a system to deal with this, and while both the US and Canada have been very good at getting the "right sort" of immigrant. They have tapped into the "brain drain" from other nations, getting resourceful migrants who establish themselves easily, and on the other hand have used many seasona migrant workers for agriculture.

I think that the Scandinavian countries have been more honest by taking in a lot of poor people from north africa, people who are illiterate, extremely conservative and religious. Then we do not even make it mandatory to learn our language, and provide very poor information on what they need to do: Instead we simply include them into our welfare state which provides benefits they have never dreamed of. Its a beaurocracy that is very hard to navigate and understand for a foreigner.

In addition, the "integration debate" has been dominated by Anders Breiviks progress party, a populist "libertarian/right wing" party who have made all kinds of stupid suggestions like banning immigrants from Oslo county, putting GPS foot braces on asylum seekers etc. The result is that they have contaminated the debate to such an extent that everyone on the left freaks out every time someone makes even a reasonable suggestion. It is simply politically uncorrect to make any suggestion that puts requirements on the shoulders of the immigrants, even things like mandatory language training.

The result is that we are seeing a ghettofication of parts of Oslo. And to make matters worse, Oslo have experienced a huge rape wave where women are assaulted in parks, especially on the weekends. The police appear to be completely mismanaged, as rescent reports have shown that there are way fewer cops on duty on weekend nights than weekdays - yes im not kidding, it is insane. And yes, it is a sad fact that a vast majority of these kinds of rapes (not the "get a girl you know drunk at a party" type, but the "hide in the bushes in a dark park and assault a woman" type) are perpetrated by men of north amfrican or middle eastern origin.

Personally, i believe that if you take an uneducated man from a muslim culture, and put him in a position where he feels like he has nothing to do and no purpose and have him live in a society where white, blonde women walk freely, he might just feel he can do what they do at home. Its a fact that female reporters have been assaulted in Egypt for example.

With such a large muslim minority in Oslo and very few muslims in the rest of the country, which is largely white, rural and has very little contact with foreigners, you have a recipe for a very large and potent conflict which manifests itself in daily skepticism and mistrust. And it is fuelled by conservative muslims on the one side, and populist right wingers on the other.

So not all is hunky dory up in Scandinavia either, folks. We have some serious issues. And i also suspect that many of our older, norwegian citizens feel ownership of our welfare state, and that also fuels the skepticism against our new citizens.

With regards to this school, i am going to guess that this is a case of a school being put under pressure by hysterical parents. "White flight" is actually an issue, and people are suggesting busing to the almost all white schools in the upper class areas in the west for example.

To call it Apartheid is bullshit, however as it implies that the minority students would get worse facilities etc.

I spent 20 minutes writing this post, please dont just answer it with a silly oneliner comment :)
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