al bupp
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Thu Sep-01-11 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
| 56. No, I did not mean to suggest that you ought provide anything, sir |
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Rather, I meant that Kucinich would do well to show that he made an attempt to solicit a range of opinions from more than just the Gaddafi regime, whose answers would seem to have been a forgone conclusion.
I disagree w/ you about the US stance regarding the war, which I think, on the whole the Obama administration would have been happy to avoid altogether, as it offered little prospect for wide-spread support among a population preoccupied w/ economic concerns who largely don't care about events in the middle east. Taking the risk to get involved, despite the apparent success of the strategy employed, has not proven to have helped Obama in the polls.
Sure Kucinich was against our involvement in Libya. I think for him it was mostly a knee-jerk reaction shared by many here. I do not fault him for that particularly. Given recent history in Iraq, am even sympathetic to it. However, in this case, I think it fails to note the distinct differences in circumstances present in Libya, the most important of which is that this revolution is clearly home-grown.
The comment about the principal critique of US involvement boiling down to a cynical sentiment about oil was not directed at you personally, though I can understand why you might have thought so. No, I cannot recall you ever posting such a sentiment, and it was unfair to tar you wish that brush, my apologies, sir.
I suppose that my intention was to point out that it seems hypocritical to say on the one hand that the US has over the years supported a lot of nefarious regimes (yes, under both Republican and Democratic administrations), and then dismissing it in a instance where (finally) that's not the case.
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| -Secret files: US officials aided Gaddafi |
al bupp |
Aug-31-11 01:53 PM |
#0 |
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Condi (R) and Quackdaffi (R) |
SpiralHawk |
Aug-31-11 01:54 PM |
#1 |
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Well, |
watajob |
Aug-31-11 02:29 PM |
#2 |
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The headline is somewhat misleading |
al bupp |
Aug-31-11 02:42 PM |
#3 |
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Maybe Libya was going to legalize pot? n/t |
Ian David |
Aug-31-11 03:46 PM |
#5 |
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I'm afraid you've lost me w/ this comment, sir |
al bupp |
Aug-31-11 04:02 PM |
#7 |
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You're wondering how a progressive could support Stalinist policies? |
boppers |
Aug-31-11 11:00 PM |
#45 |
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Point taken |
al bupp |
Aug-31-11 11:40 PM |
#49 |
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Meaning of the current coinage varies. |
boppers |
Sep-01-11 01:17 AM |
#59 |
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Al Jazeera jumped to false conclusions. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-11 12:00 AM |
#52 |
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Dennis Kucinich was doing some back-door diplomatic dealing with Saif Al-Islam, Qaddafi's son. |
Ikonoklast |
Aug-31-11 02:47 PM |
#4 |
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Oooo.... |
Muskypundit |
Aug-31-11 03:51 PM |
#6 |
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I read it. You're kidding, right? |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 07:40 PM |
#12 |
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Better read Kucinich's response |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-11 12:01 AM |
#54 |
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The source claims to have found this in an office in Libya |
JDPriestly |
Aug-31-11 05:23 PM |
#8 |
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The 'We don't know these guys' notion is pretty outdated |
pinboy3niner |
Aug-31-11 05:37 PM |
#9 |
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What does that have to do with Kucinich allegedly gathering information, though? |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 07:42 PM |
#13 |
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Kucinich help outlin what kind of information they needed, starting from the preconcieved notions... |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 09:28 PM |
#27 |
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Huh? Where did I say anything about a truth commission? |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 10:02 PM |
#35 |
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I assumed that's what you meant by "gathering information." |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 10:17 PM |
#37 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-31-11 10:30 PM |
#39 |
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Please drop the pedantry. You could replace "truth commission" with "truth seeking mission"... |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 11:07 PM |
#47 |
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Here is the true story. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-11 12:02 AM |
#55 |
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So, out of nowhere, Col Qaddafi's son makes stuff up about a congressman from Ohio. |
Ikonoklast |
Aug-31-11 06:53 PM |
#10 |
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Either explanation is possible. |
JDPriestly |
Aug-31-11 10:44 PM |
#41 |
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Those questions were asked by the administration and by the SFRC |
karynnj |
Aug-31-11 07:52 PM |
#16 |
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Yes, but I would bet they did not pose them to a regime notorious for it boundless mendacity |
al bupp |
Aug-31-11 08:24 PM |
#17 |
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Nothing says that he was relying solely on their answers for 100% of his information. |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 08:55 PM |
#21 |
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Nothing says he was relying on anything else either |
al bupp |
Aug-31-11 09:42 PM |
#29 |
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How would this story possibly tell you what Kucinich intended to do with the answers he got, if any? |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 09:59 PM |
#34 |
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No, I did not mean to suggest that you ought provide anything, sir |
al bupp |
Sep-01-11 12:06 AM |
#56 |
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I would hope that no diplomat would take any comment at face value without comparing it |
karynnj |
Sep-01-11 10:56 AM |
#62 |
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I was responding to someone trying to justify DK saying the questions |
karynnj |
Sep-01-11 11:05 AM |
#63 |
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No evidence of negotiation in the article, just a list of questions. Fact finding. |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 08:53 PM |
#20 |
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I was abso;utely NOT implying there was - and was saying that fact finding |
karynnj |
Sep-01-11 10:50 AM |
#61 |
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"Dennis Kucinich issued a statement to the Atlantic Wire stating: |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 07:39 PM |
#11 |
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Nothing's unusual about gathering information, per se |
al bupp |
Aug-31-11 08:32 PM |
#18 |
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See Reply 21. BTW, if you were trying to investigate Libyan rebels, you would NOT ask |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 09:05 PM |
#22 |
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You would then have no problem with a Republican running his own diplomatic mission |
Ikonoklast |
Aug-31-11 08:33 PM |
#19 |
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Spare me the mickey mouse posting games. And don't presume to tell me what I would do in |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 09:14 PM |
#23 |
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No need to presume, your record is clear... |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 09:22 PM |
#25 |
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Your reading comprehension issue, not my double standard. |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 09:33 PM |
#28 |
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Not really. Both McCain and Kucinich were helping the regime. |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 09:52 PM |
#33 |
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Fact: You completely ignored what I said. |
Ikonoklast |
Aug-31-11 09:50 PM |
#32 |
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Not fact, but bs. Again, spare me the mickey mouse posting games. |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 10:15 PM |
#36 |
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Here is where the idea of a lawsuit by Kucinich (and others) |
JDPriestly |
Aug-31-11 10:53 PM |
#43 |
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Al Jazeera uncovered that Welch and Kucinich laid out the kind of propaganda evidence... |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 09:25 PM |
#26 |
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Please don't change the subject you brought up just yet, Josh. First, tell me how Kucinich asking |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 09:43 PM |
#30 |
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"He is going to fight for us but he has asked us for evidence." |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 09:46 PM |
#31 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-31-11 10:21 PM |
#38 |
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I did in fact respond to those posts, it's not my fault you're so easily dismissive. |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 11:05 PM |
#46 |
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Kucinich seems to suggest that the Libyans got the questions |
JDPriestly |
Aug-31-11 10:48 PM |
#42 |
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It won't. Kucinich is immune from criticism, as this thread shows. |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 11:11 PM |
#48 |
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This might interest you. |
JDPriestly |
Aug-31-11 11:56 PM |
#50 |
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I'm sure Gaddafi was happy to have someone in the U.S. government... |
MilesColtrane |
Aug-31-11 10:39 PM |
#40 |
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No. He wasn't. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-11 12:01 AM |
#53 |
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The real reason for the GOP opposition to the Lybia campaign is becoming clearer. |
LetTimmySmoke |
Aug-31-11 07:43 PM |
#14 |
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OMG, I hope we don't find out Dennis also speaks on the floor of the House from time to time. |
No Elephants |
Aug-31-11 07:47 PM |
#15 |
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This is goddamn apalling. Every Gaddafi talking point comes from this report. |
joshcryer |
Aug-31-11 09:15 PM |
#24 |
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The report is not based on any discussion by Kucinich with anyone in Libya. |
JDPriestly |
Aug-31-11 11:59 PM |
#51 |
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Senior Bush diplomat 'advised Gaddafi regime to the end' |
Judi Lynn |
Aug-31-11 10:58 PM |
#44 |
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Thanks for posting this addendum, ma'am |
al bupp |
Sep-01-11 12:21 AM |
#57 |
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From the article, some points that seem to have been missed: |
tabatha |
Sep-01-11 12:46 AM |
#58 |
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Those details are also covered in the AJE video |
Turborama |
Sep-01-11 01:41 AM |
#60 |