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Reply #40: HappyCynic and the effectiveness of stimulus [View All]

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NAZLib Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. HappyCynic and the effectiveness of stimulus
Even the "make work" projects will provide jobs now and put more money into the economy (through indirectly created jobs such as restaurant workers - more employed people = more people eating out). Spending on retraining won't do much good without actual jobs. Mortgages can be addressed by a separate bill.


I think this is pretty much the heart of the problem. If you take 100K from rich person A and pay it to person B to pick up trash in the local park you say that's putting money into the economy but I say that those indirectly created restaurant workers are no different than what would have been created if person A had spent the money on whatever he/she wanted. If person A buys a jet with the money then someone still has to build it and that person still eats out etc so I just don't see how there's any net economic gain. There may be some intangible gains like the fact that you and I gain more from a cleaner park than from some rich guy's jet but that's not an economic gain that actually grows the economy.

The nice thing about retraining and education is that it better matches the available workers with the available jobs and thus improves efficiency and grows the economy. Consider a simple thought experiment. You've got a guy who spent the last 20 years operating a B210 series crane in Detroit. He's really good at it and makes 100K but due to the lack of commercial building he's out of the job and there just isn't anyone else who needs B210 operators within driving distance. He's basically screwed. Even if there's a job opening in Texas he can't afford to pay his current mortgage as well as rent in Texas so there he sits on unemployment. Is it more economically efficient to pay him to pick up trash or is it better to train him to do something that takes advantage of his excellent hand-eye coordination and trustworthiness? Even during training the indirect jobs will still be created (he'll be employing teachers) so there's no loss there but when he's done he'll be contributing more to the economy.

That's my take on it. What am I missing?
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  -Jan Schakowsky Announces New Budget Plan With Focus On Jobs highplainsdem  Aug-10-11 10:02 PM   #0 
  - K and R for Jan..just look at the number of jobs created...that's it..nt  Stuart G   Aug-10-11 10:03 PM   #1 
  - It's a brilliant plan.  highplainsdem   Aug-10-11 10:11 PM   #2 
  - Dems Need to Get Behind This!! Raise the Noise!!  AbigailThomas   Aug-11-11 08:18 AM   #25 
  - She's a Democrat from Illinois. Will Obama speak out in support?  Divernan   Aug-10-11 10:18 PM   #3 
  - I'm still a supporter  cstanleytech   Aug-10-11 10:38 PM   #9 
  - Thank you for replying.  Divernan   Aug-11-11 07:14 AM   #21 
  - Snort - choke. One would hope so, but he never mentioned the Peoples budget, either.  grahamhgreen   Aug-10-11 11:43 PM   #12 
  - Hearty K&R. - n/t  Zenlitened   Aug-10-11 10:20 PM   #4 
  - I applaud Jan and wish her good luck. If only she could get all  Booster   Aug-10-11 10:23 PM   #5 
  - This is what we need. Now we ALL from the lowest to the highest  jwirr   Aug-10-11 10:25 PM   #6 
  - Gotta be shouting this from the rooftops.  madamesilverspurs   Aug-10-11 10:35 PM   #7 
  - And all those employed through these programs would develop their  JDPriestly   Aug-10-11 10:36 PM   #8 
  - K&R. But need 10 million put to work - that would still be less than half of the 24 million looking.  jtuck004   Aug-10-11 11:11 PM   #10 
  - Directly created jobs  HappyCynic   Aug-11-11 12:00 AM   #13 
     - +1  humankarenball   Aug-11-11 07:55 AM   #23 
     - That's exactly where we are now. Little stimulus attempts, none  jtuck004   Aug-11-11 10:16 AM   #28 
     - One other little point - little plans have been tried before  jtuck004   Aug-11-11 11:35 AM   #30 
  - Doesn't seem to be trickle-downy enough  MannyGoldstein   Aug-10-11 11:13 PM   #11 
  - K&R...But Congresswoman, can you times it by four?  Firebrand Gary   Aug-11-11 12:11 AM   #14 
  - Not to throw cold water on this but.....  NAZLib   Aug-11-11 01:19 AM   #15 
  - Funding and jobs  HappyCynic   Aug-11-11 02:17 AM   #18 
  - Funding & Jobs  NAZLib   Aug-11-11 03:49 AM   #19 
  - HappyCynic and the effectiveness of stimulus  NAZLib   Aug-12-11 12:07 PM   #40 
  - Instead, you're gonna throw a slew of RW talking points on it?  Hugin   Aug-11-11 04:58 AM   #20 
     - Is the CBO good enough?  NAZLib   Aug-11-11 12:16 PM   #31 
        - You've only told me how much they're SUPPOSED to be paying.  Hugin   Aug-11-11 12:53 PM   #32 
        - CBO is not the M$M  NAZLib   Aug-11-11 02:17 PM   #33 
           - Can't find it, can you?  Hugin   Aug-12-11 08:07 AM   #37 
              - I've already told you.  NAZLib   Aug-12-11 10:28 AM   #38 
        - We don't like Teabaggers on DU.  Enthusiast   Aug-11-11 05:31 PM   #35 
           - Not a "Teabagger"  NAZLib   Aug-11-11 07:48 PM   #36 
  - Nice that someone  kimsarah   Aug-11-11 02:12 AM   #16 
  - Better yet  kimsarah   Aug-11-11 02:15 AM   #17 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-11-11 08:03 AM   #24 
  - Good plan  JustAnotherGen   Aug-11-11 07:46 AM   #22 
  - The way forward!  swilton   Aug-11-11 09:50 AM   #26 
  - Holy crap if that doesn't sound like the best prescription heard to-date!  Roland99   Aug-11-11 09:54 AM   #27 
  - I like it. I know it has no chance in hell in the House. But it's good to reinforce  TwilightGardener   Aug-11-11 10:29 AM   #29 
  - Should've been proposed in January 2009, when the Dems had the WH, House and Senate ...  SomeGuyInEagan   Aug-12-11 10:39 AM   #39 
  - Jan Schakowsky for President! nt  Enthusiast   Aug-11-11 05:27 PM   #34 
 

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