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Reply #94: It's insulting you don't think I am aware of that side of the story. [View All]

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #90
94. It's insulting you don't think I am aware of that side of the story.
Edited on Tue Feb-08-11 10:31 AM by joshcryer
But given that you have swallowed it whole without question, I would cite these two books:

Something happened to both Cuba and the United States back then (though somewhat earlier in the United States), something ironically quite similar on historical terms. The American labor movement in the United States, Industrial Workers of the World, was implicitly anarchist. The plutocrats over time squashed that movement, and the USA trended toward corporation controlled fascist plutocratic capitalism. Whole groups would be arrested for protesting, one after another. Two world wars helped to quell the IWW.

Likewise, in Cuba, the revolutionary anarchists were squashed by Garca Menocal, but something slightly different happened, there. The anarchists successfully had insurrection against the capitalists, and slowly were taken over by the communists (statists or Marxists). And yet again, war played a part in the dwindling nature of the libertarian socialists (The Spanish Civil War, which had Cuban anarchist involvement). But still, Batista gained control, and with the help of the anarchists Castro and his goons overthrew Batista. For the anarchists, however, it was too late. They were heavily repressed, far beyond the IWW in some respects (because the IWW fell into obscurity because of the world wars that lasted years), many were executed and forced to undergo torture beyond anything you can comprehend today (the Spaniard anarchists also employed psychologically torture, so I'm not saying this was a unique process). Trending Cuba toward state controlled totalitarian autocratic communism.

I'm sorry that my side of history disagrees with yours, but the Castro regime was never a progressive one, but both countries enjoyed a brief period of time where free expression reigned. And I expect both will again some day soon. Though I will not give the US one iota of credit for its coming revolution, but I am sure that the Castro-ians will demand credit for theirs.

Only real reason that the US hasn't turned into Chile or Batista's Cuba or Spain or whatever depotic country you can think if is our First Amendment. Free speech, free press, free assembly, which some American's take for granted, but others defend vigorously, forces change.
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  -Cuba seeks 20-year jail term for detained American Zorro  Feb-04-11 11:30 PM   #0 
  - "Unlawful satellite internet links" = 20 years in prison.  boppers   Feb-04-11 11:35 PM   #1 
  - But but but, they're defying the evil American imperialist running dogs!  TheWraith   Feb-05-11 12:42 AM   #2 
  - ..and they have freedom of the press!*  boppers   Feb-05-11 01:31 AM   #4 
  - I agree it is too harsh, but the same can happen in the US. Even life sentences are possible.  Ash_F   Feb-05-11 02:14 AM   #7 
     - Well put, Ash_F.  Ghost Dog   Feb-05-11 02:50 AM   #8 
     - Thank you.  Ash_F   Feb-05-11 02:53 AM   #9 
     - What people in the US are serving life sentences for connecting somebody to the internet?  boppers   Feb-05-11 04:51 AM   #11 
     - That is not what he is being accused of.  Ash_F   Feb-06-11 10:17 AM   #46 
        - The Cuban state is using Castro's blueprint to the tee.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:24 PM   #54 
        - OK, I am new to this board. But I am guessing responding to one-liners is pointless?  Ash_F   Feb-07-11 06:10 PM   #90 
           - It's insulting you don't think I am aware of that side of the story.  joshcryer   Feb-08-11 10:23 AM   #94 
              - You seem pretty preoccupied with the concept of Anarchy.  Ash_F   Feb-08-11 07:37 PM   #95 
        - And just so we're clear, that blueprint says "free communication" = "terrorism."  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:27 PM   #55 
     - I'm not going to Cuba, that's for sure  social_critic   Feb-05-11 09:04 AM   #16 
     - Evidently ?  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 10:45 AM   #17 
     - Cuba could use a revolution.  boppers   Feb-05-11 10:04 PM   #21 
     - The Cuban military runs the country and is roughly 10% the population including reservists.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:06 AM   #36 
     - Yeah, Egypt had it's own revolution too,in 1956.  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:14 PM   #23 
     - Dipsy, Cuba's revolution is ancient history - today Castroite Dictatorship is the establishment  social_critic   Feb-06-11 09:15 PM   #62 
        - I think they're waiting for Castro to die so they don't break his heart.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:47 PM   #70 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Feb-05-11 10:57 AM   #18 
     - 20 years to life for setting up internet links in the US?  boppers   Feb-05-11 10:05 PM   #22 
     - Your viewpoint is clearly biased.  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 12:48 AM   #32 
        - "foreign agents attempting to secretly promote a political cause in the United States"  boppers   Feb-06-11 01:03 AM   #33 
        - Foreign lobbyist must be registered with the Department of Justice,  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 01:13 AM   #35 
        - Yeah, register with a government.  boppers   Feb-06-11 05:38 AM   #42 
        - And wikileaks...  LanternWaste   Feb-07-11 03:33 PM   #83 
        - Yeah, and the anarchists who got repressed by Castro's regime got funds from American's.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:19 AM   #37 
           - So?  boppers   Feb-06-11 05:39 AM   #43 
              - Why, nothing, of course.  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 09:45 AM   #45 
              - I was talking about the American anarchists, not the US government.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:20 PM   #53 
              - I actually agree with sending aid to comrades overseas.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:20 PM   #52 
     - So Cuba views the jews there as a terrorist organization?  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:24 PM   #26 
        - That is a disgusting thing to say. See my second reply to Boppers for more on the situation.  Ash_F   Feb-06-11 10:30 AM   #47 
  - If there is a trial, it will only be for show.  NaturalHigh   Feb-05-11 01:30 AM   #3 
  - Well, the Castro regime did do good things for:  boppers   Feb-05-11 01:37 AM   #5 
  - Seriously, they should just let him die uncharged in custody like America does it.  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 01:49 AM   #6 
     - One does not have to support either. nt  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:15 PM   #24 
     - I have no problem with Cuba or any other country in this hemisphere  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 10:48 PM   #27 
        - Giving people the hardware to connect to the internet is not  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:52 PM   #28 
           - After blocking net access for Cuba, it's not possible for State to claim  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 10:57 PM   #29 
              - The US is not blocking Cuba from accessing the internet. nt  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 11:15 PM   #30 
                 - Yes, it is. It has refused to allow access to a cable near Cuba.  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 11:30 PM   #31 
                    - That is incorrect, "Cuban Democracy Act of 1992" explicitly *permits* internet.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:44 AM   #41 
                       - Very interesting. But Castro knows that the day Cubans are able to freely  msanthrope   Feb-06-11 10:57 AM   #48 
                       - Exactly. Right now I can go outside with a sign that says "Down with Republicans!"  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:11 PM   #50 
                       - That is incorrect, the "Cuban Democracy Act of 1992" doesn't mention the internet  reorg   Feb-06-11 08:13 PM   #56 
                          - It certainly did cover it. Cuba doesn't want it from the US.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:00 PM   #57 
                          - How do you know?  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:14 PM   #60 
                             - You just proved it for me.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:16 PM   #63 
                             - empty blather n/t  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:17 PM   #65 
                                - Cuban Democracy Act of 1992  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:23 PM   #68 
                                   - How immensely generous  reorg   Feb-07-11 01:12 AM   #73 
                                      - Yes. which is why Gross is going to jail the rest of his life. He was in under the guise of USAID.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:21 AM   #75 
                                         - According to your logic, Chavez will soon be imprisoned in Cuba n/t  reorg   Feb-07-11 04:02 PM   #86 
                             - Just because the Castroian government claims it was restrained from having internet...  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:32 PM   #69 
                                - Google for info on how the US blocked a signed agreement to lay internet cable from FL to Cuba nt  flamingdem   Feb-07-11 12:32 PM   #81 
                                   - Still looking but I found this:  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:25 PM   #82 
                                      - Really, really alarming  reorg   Feb-07-11 04:01 PM   #85 
                          - I did not say it "mentioned the internet" I said it permitted it. Big difference.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:02 PM   #58 
                             - you said it "explicitly" permits, but it doesn't  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:11 PM   #59 
                                - Obama is not "permitting" anything, he's authorizing.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:14 PM   #61 
                                   - yes, he authorizes changes n/t  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:16 PM   #64 
                                   - Yes, additions, not permission.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:17 PM   #67 
                                      - Obama initiated some changes in US policy towards Cuba  reorg   Feb-07-11 01:07 AM   #72 
                                         - You're still missing the point, the US would have happily given Cuba access if Cuba asked.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:16 AM   #74 
                                            - So why don't you stick to the point  reorg   Feb-07-11 04:29 PM   #87 
                                               - US permits access if authorized. US had not authorized because Cuba didn't ask.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 04:37 PM   #88 
     - Yeah!  JVS   Feb-08-11 07:44 AM   #93 
  - Its the same penalty  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 03:40 AM   #10 
  - "for the avoidance of doubt the full list accompanies entry slip application forms."  boppers   Feb-05-11 04:56 AM   #12 
     - It would make sense if you'd been there  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 05:14 AM   #13 
        - I'm going to go somewhere where internet access is regulated? Uh, no.  boppers   Feb-05-11 09:28 PM   #20 
        - Foreign tourists have plenty of free access to internet. The plebs can't use it though.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:21 AM   #38 
        - "any item - including literature- attempting against the security and internal order of the country"  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:23 AM   #39 
           - The sad part is "socialists" who hate property.  boppers   Feb-06-11 05:47 AM   #44 
              - The anarchists view state owned property as capitalist, though.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:16 PM   #51 
  - I think you aware  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 05:24 AM   #14 
  - Man, hard to believe they wouldn't fess up after seeing Gross  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:18 PM   #25 
     - US Jewish groups with ties to Cuba are progressive, Gross is right wing  flamingdem   Feb-06-11 01:04 AM   #34 
        - "Gross is right wing" lol, link? nt  sufrommich   Feb-06-11 11:03 AM   #49 
           - He works as an agent of an imperialist power  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 11:38 PM   #71 
              - Um, the best progressives work to undermine totalitarian regimes.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:22 AM   #76 
              - I assume you were against Che working in Congo and Bolivia, btw?  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:33 AM   #77 
                 - I didn't have much of an opinion on such things as a small child.  ronnie624   Feb-07-11 10:35 AM   #79 
                    - I'm not particularly fond of Che (I think he had a death wish and did things haphazardly).  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:36 PM   #84 
                    - Here's an example of *individuals* helping bloggers in Cuba:  joshcryer   Feb-08-11 03:45 AM   #92 
  - Actual wording was  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 07:02 AM   #15 
  - Treason is 5 years minimum up to death. Trials for treason are extremely rare, and convictions are..  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:33 AM   #40 
  - The solution is EASY. Release the Cuban Five  flamingdem   Feb-05-11 11:06 AM   #19 
  - So it's done to get a prisoner exchange  social_critic   Feb-06-11 09:19 PM   #66 
  - No. Just stating the obvious. By the way were you born in Cuba? nt  flamingdem   Feb-07-11 12:24 PM   #80 
  - I suspect that is the Plan of the Cuban Government  happyslug   Feb-07-11 11:23 PM   #91 
  - Video shows Cuban fears of Internet, social media  Zorro   Feb-07-11 09:30 AM   #78 
     - Saw that.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 04:53 PM   #89 

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