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Reply #90: OK, I am new to this board. But I am guessing responding to one-liners is pointless? [View All]

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Ash_F Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
90. OK, I am new to this board. But I am guessing responding to one-liners is pointless?
Edited on Mon Feb-07-11 06:27 PM by Ash_F
The Jewish groups already have internet btw. He was probably planing to give it to someone within the group without their sanction.

I think if someone cared enough about big issues like this, they should take the time study the history of the region past to present as well the current political system/climate. So that they may have a serious discussion about what is happening. I doubt Castro has had anything to do with this case. There is more to Cuban politics than that.

I am against political systems that are dominated by one party(even two), but I recognize why Cuba came to that. The communist party became so big because of the overwhelming popular disdain for Batista regime. Which was a true minority group that only held onto power through force of arms. If you think it was the other way around you need to do some reading.

Cuban was essentially owned economically, politically and militarily by a combination of American and Cuban elites, ever since the US won the territory from Spain in the Spanish-American war. As the FDR era came to maturity, Americans were experiencing upward economic and social mobility through the 40s and early 50s. The Cubans looked to this and sought to emulate(as did most of the world). They started to unionize and liberalize, and demand fair representation. This threatened the wealth and land that the Cuban/American elites had held for the 50 years after the war. So they responded with violence, killing striking laborers, students, community organizers and rival political leaders. All people who were not even communist yet. With weapons made in America. With American money to keep soldiers loyal to them. With such blatant inhumanity that even the priests united with the communists, who were vocally anti-religion, for a time. And so the revoltion kicked off. The Communist party came to power and the Cuban government took more the form of the Soviet-Marxist model than that of the American-FDR model(which was what it was originally trending toward). The Average American did not know what was going on in Cuba back then, the wealthy were making the decisions. The Average American does not know this history either. But average Cubans do and there is a lot bitterness, resentment and anger towards the US about it.

That anger is why Gross is getting the book thrown at him. It does not have anything to do with Castro or his "blueprint". Maybe if the US took the right side back then, things would be different. I am sure things would be better if they take the right steps. But it will not happen if the American public is going to sit on the sidelines while rich people with money involved in the situation make all of the decisions. That is way it has been for the past 100 years between the US and Cuba. Political parties and named-ideologies have come and gone but the rich/poor dynamic has always been there. I do not condone what is happening to Mr. Gross or the tight control of internet access, I can not denounce that enough. But I understand why things are this way. America has not done enough to differentiate itself from the Batistas and denounce its past actions. Its politicians certainly have not. Most citizens have not. Even half the posters on this Democratic board have not. Not because they are bad people or do not care about others plight, but because they do not know and are not involved. People need to get involved to fix things.


<->
There will always be rich and poor but what is important is that people have representation. This was/is just too much^^^

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  -Cuba seeks 20-year jail term for detained American Zorro  Feb-04-11 11:30 PM   #0 
  - "Unlawful satellite internet links" = 20 years in prison.  boppers   Feb-04-11 11:35 PM   #1 
  - But but but, they're defying the evil American imperialist running dogs!  TheWraith   Feb-05-11 12:42 AM   #2 
  - ..and they have freedom of the press!*  boppers   Feb-05-11 01:31 AM   #4 
  - I agree it is too harsh, but the same can happen in the US. Even life sentences are possible.  Ash_F   Feb-05-11 02:14 AM   #7 
     - Well put, Ash_F.  Ghost Dog   Feb-05-11 02:50 AM   #8 
     - Thank you.  Ash_F   Feb-05-11 02:53 AM   #9 
     - What people in the US are serving life sentences for connecting somebody to the internet?  boppers   Feb-05-11 04:51 AM   #11 
     - That is not what he is being accused of.  Ash_F   Feb-06-11 10:17 AM   #46 
        - The Cuban state is using Castro's blueprint to the tee.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:24 PM   #54 
        - OK, I am new to this board. But I am guessing responding to one-liners is pointless?  Ash_F   Feb-07-11 06:10 PM   #90 
           - It's insulting you don't think I am aware of that side of the story.  joshcryer   Feb-08-11 10:23 AM   #94 
              - You seem pretty preoccupied with the concept of Anarchy.  Ash_F   Feb-08-11 07:37 PM   #95 
        - And just so we're clear, that blueprint says "free communication" = "terrorism."  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:27 PM   #55 
     - I'm not going to Cuba, that's for sure  social_critic   Feb-05-11 09:04 AM   #16 
     - Evidently ?  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 10:45 AM   #17 
     - Cuba could use a revolution.  boppers   Feb-05-11 10:04 PM   #21 
     - The Cuban military runs the country and is roughly 10% the population including reservists.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:06 AM   #36 
     - Yeah, Egypt had it's own revolution too,in 1956.  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:14 PM   #23 
     - Dipsy, Cuba's revolution is ancient history - today Castroite Dictatorship is the establishment  social_critic   Feb-06-11 09:15 PM   #62 
        - I think they're waiting for Castro to die so they don't break his heart.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:47 PM   #70 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Feb-05-11 10:57 AM   #18 
     - 20 years to life for setting up internet links in the US?  boppers   Feb-05-11 10:05 PM   #22 
     - Your viewpoint is clearly biased.  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 12:48 AM   #32 
        - "foreign agents attempting to secretly promote a political cause in the United States"  boppers   Feb-06-11 01:03 AM   #33 
        - Foreign lobbyist must be registered with the Department of Justice,  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 01:13 AM   #35 
        - Yeah, register with a government.  boppers   Feb-06-11 05:38 AM   #42 
        - And wikileaks...  LanternWaste   Feb-07-11 03:33 PM   #83 
        - Yeah, and the anarchists who got repressed by Castro's regime got funds from American's.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:19 AM   #37 
           - So?  boppers   Feb-06-11 05:39 AM   #43 
              - Why, nothing, of course.  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 09:45 AM   #45 
              - I was talking about the American anarchists, not the US government.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:20 PM   #53 
              - I actually agree with sending aid to comrades overseas.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:20 PM   #52 
     - So Cuba views the jews there as a terrorist organization?  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:24 PM   #26 
        - That is a disgusting thing to say. See my second reply to Boppers for more on the situation.  Ash_F   Feb-06-11 10:30 AM   #47 
  - If there is a trial, it will only be for show.  NaturalHigh   Feb-05-11 01:30 AM   #3 
  - Well, the Castro regime did do good things for:  boppers   Feb-05-11 01:37 AM   #5 
  - Seriously, they should just let him die uncharged in custody like America does it.  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 01:49 AM   #6 
     - One does not have to support either. nt  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:15 PM   #24 
     - I have no problem with Cuba or any other country in this hemisphere  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 10:48 PM   #27 
        - Giving people the hardware to connect to the internet is not  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:52 PM   #28 
           - After blocking net access for Cuba, it's not possible for State to claim  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 10:57 PM   #29 
              - The US is not blocking Cuba from accessing the internet. nt  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 11:15 PM   #30 
                 - Yes, it is. It has refused to allow access to a cable near Cuba.  EFerrari   Feb-05-11 11:30 PM   #31 
                    - That is incorrect, "Cuban Democracy Act of 1992" explicitly *permits* internet.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:44 AM   #41 
                       - Very interesting. But Castro knows that the day Cubans are able to freely  msanthrope   Feb-06-11 10:57 AM   #48 
                       - Exactly. Right now I can go outside with a sign that says "Down with Republicans!"  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:11 PM   #50 
                       - That is incorrect, the "Cuban Democracy Act of 1992" doesn't mention the internet  reorg   Feb-06-11 08:13 PM   #56 
                          - It certainly did cover it. Cuba doesn't want it from the US.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:00 PM   #57 
                          - How do you know?  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:14 PM   #60 
                             - You just proved it for me.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:16 PM   #63 
                             - empty blather n/t  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:17 PM   #65 
                                - Cuban Democracy Act of 1992  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:23 PM   #68 
                                   - How immensely generous  reorg   Feb-07-11 01:12 AM   #73 
                                      - Yes. which is why Gross is going to jail the rest of his life. He was in under the guise of USAID.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:21 AM   #75 
                                         - According to your logic, Chavez will soon be imprisoned in Cuba n/t  reorg   Feb-07-11 04:02 PM   #86 
                             - Just because the Castroian government claims it was restrained from having internet...  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:32 PM   #69 
                                - Google for info on how the US blocked a signed agreement to lay internet cable from FL to Cuba nt  flamingdem   Feb-07-11 12:32 PM   #81 
                                   - Still looking but I found this:  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:25 PM   #82 
                                      - Really, really alarming  reorg   Feb-07-11 04:01 PM   #85 
                          - I did not say it "mentioned the internet" I said it permitted it. Big difference.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:02 PM   #58 
                             - you said it "explicitly" permits, but it doesn't  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:11 PM   #59 
                                - Obama is not "permitting" anything, he's authorizing.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 09:14 PM   #61 
                                   - yes, he authorizes changes n/t  reorg   Feb-06-11 09:16 PM   #64 
                                   - Yes, additions, not permission.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 10:17 PM   #67 
                                      - Obama initiated some changes in US policy towards Cuba  reorg   Feb-07-11 01:07 AM   #72 
                                         - You're still missing the point, the US would have happily given Cuba access if Cuba asked.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:16 AM   #74 
                                            - So why don't you stick to the point  reorg   Feb-07-11 04:29 PM   #87 
                                               - US permits access if authorized. US had not authorized because Cuba didn't ask.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 04:37 PM   #88 
     - Yeah!  JVS   Feb-08-11 07:44 AM   #93 
  - Its the same penalty  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 03:40 AM   #10 
  - "for the avoidance of doubt the full list accompanies entry slip application forms."  boppers   Feb-05-11 04:56 AM   #12 
     - It would make sense if you'd been there  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 05:14 AM   #13 
        - I'm going to go somewhere where internet access is regulated? Uh, no.  boppers   Feb-05-11 09:28 PM   #20 
        - Foreign tourists have plenty of free access to internet. The plebs can't use it though.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:21 AM   #38 
        - "any item - including literature- attempting against the security and internal order of the country"  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:23 AM   #39 
           - The sad part is "socialists" who hate property.  boppers   Feb-06-11 05:47 AM   #44 
              - The anarchists view state owned property as capitalist, though.  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 07:16 PM   #51 
  - I think you aware  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 05:24 AM   #14 
  - Man, hard to believe they wouldn't fess up after seeing Gross  sufrommich   Feb-05-11 10:18 PM   #25 
     - US Jewish groups with ties to Cuba are progressive, Gross is right wing  flamingdem   Feb-06-11 01:04 AM   #34 
        - "Gross is right wing" lol, link? nt  sufrommich   Feb-06-11 11:03 AM   #49 
           - He works as an agent of an imperialist power  ronnie624   Feb-06-11 11:38 PM   #71 
              - Um, the best progressives work to undermine totalitarian regimes.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:22 AM   #76 
              - I assume you were against Che working in Congo and Bolivia, btw?  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:33 AM   #77 
                 - I didn't have much of an opinion on such things as a small child.  ronnie624   Feb-07-11 10:35 AM   #79 
                    - I'm not particularly fond of Che (I think he had a death wish and did things haphazardly).  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 03:36 PM   #84 
                    - Here's an example of *individuals* helping bloggers in Cuba:  joshcryer   Feb-08-11 03:45 AM   #92 
  - Actual wording was  dipsydoodle   Feb-05-11 07:02 AM   #15 
  - Treason is 5 years minimum up to death. Trials for treason are extremely rare, and convictions are..  joshcryer   Feb-06-11 04:33 AM   #40 
  - The solution is EASY. Release the Cuban Five  flamingdem   Feb-05-11 11:06 AM   #19 
  - So it's done to get a prisoner exchange  social_critic   Feb-06-11 09:19 PM   #66 
  - No. Just stating the obvious. By the way were you born in Cuba? nt  flamingdem   Feb-07-11 12:24 PM   #80 
  - I suspect that is the Plan of the Cuban Government  happyslug   Feb-07-11 11:23 PM   #91 
  - Video shows Cuban fears of Internet, social media  Zorro   Feb-07-11 09:30 AM   #78 
     - Saw that.  joshcryer   Feb-07-11 04:53 PM   #89 
 

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