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Reply #143: Scale of War crime yes, but lies alone no [View All]

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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #142
143. Scale of War crime yes, but lies alone no
Bush and cronies absolutely need to be tried for war crimes (crime of aggression), crimes against humanity (torture), violation of the constitution (lying about the reason for the war. And so do any enablers like congress, the NYTimes, and people who fail to prosecute when the evidence is everywhere. But lying about how many were killed is not a crime in and of itself, unless it was used to cover up something else like torture or wholesale slaughter. But then it merely establishes the scale and is a lesser point in the larger crime.

So let's focus on the real crimes, and not create ones that don't exist. Lies in this context, by themselves, are not crimes.
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  -BREAKING - Wikileaks: Iraq War Logs (Military Gave Secret Order Not to Investigate Torture) Hissyspit  Oct-22-10 03:50 PM   #0 
  - Is this the "Insurance" file?  derby378   Oct-22-10 03:51 PM   #1 
  - PLENTY NEW in Iraq War Logs Leak:  Hissyspit   Oct-22-10 04:11 PM   #4 
  - I don't think it's the "Insurance" file. 1.4 gigs would contain more than 4,00,000 docs  Turborama   Oct-22-10 09:19 PM   #53 
  - No, that is different.  harun   Oct-23-10 02:51 PM   #170 
  - And the President is committed to sweeping it under the carpet.  laconicsax   Oct-22-10 03:52 PM   #2 
  - What should he do? Its spilled milk, war is over.(nt)  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 04:39 PM   #17 
  - Oh, I don't know...maybe prosecute war crimes? n/t  laconicsax   Oct-22-10 04:57 PM   #21 
  - Repeat after me. Never going to happen. At most some E3  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 05:00 PM   #23 
  - Like I said, the President is committed to sweeping it under the carpet.  laconicsax   Oct-22-10 05:15 PM   #30 
     - you can always vote palin..  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:33 PM   #60 
        - False choice  Mojorabbit   Oct-22-10 11:16 PM   #89 
        - Obama is not going to the mat for Bradley manning and his editor.  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:19 PM   #93 
           - Niiiiice tangential deflection.  liberation   Oct-23-10 03:17 PM   #174 
              - Reality first, this is not a church..  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 03:23 PM   #177 
                 - "Reality" does not mean what you want it to mean...  liberation   Oct-23-10 03:39 PM   #182 
                    - You may be right, but so am I. This will be cycled right out of the news in 6 days  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 03:46 PM   #185 
        - Overplayed garbage.  laconicsax   Oct-22-10 11:40 PM   #104 
        - As much as you believe someone will stand trial over dumped content  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:41 PM   #107 
           - When did I say any of that?  laconicsax   Oct-22-10 11:46 PM   #110 
              - "What do you expect him to do"?  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:47 PM   #112 
                 - I responded with what I would like to see, not what I actually thought would happen.  laconicsax   Oct-23-10 12:03 AM   #127 
                    - There are lots of feelings flying around. Feelings will not convict people  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 12:08 AM   #129 
        - God, what it must be like to deal from such a simplistic mind. nt  ooglymoogly   Oct-23-10 11:20 AM   #151 
           - Simple situation. dont need a slide rule to make eggo's  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 01:03 PM   #160 
  - Just joking right laconicsax?  Drops_not_Dope   Oct-23-10 03:20 PM   #175 
     - Who said * only?  laconicsax   Oct-23-10 05:02 PM   #191 
  - "UN calls on Obama to investigate human rights abuses"  suffragette   Oct-23-10 12:16 PM   #158 
     - Get a list of names and hand it over to the Iraqi government..  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 12:58 PM   #159 
        - "Some cases of alleged abuse by UK and US troops are detailed in the logs."  suffragette   Oct-23-10 01:12 PM   #161 
        - Well if a us service member broke the law he should be punished under UCMJ  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 01:17 PM   #163 
           - "Depends on what "abuse" means and if it is a crime."  suffragette   Oct-23-10 01:23 PM   #165 
              - UCMJ defines legal and illegal, not feelings  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 01:29 PM   #166 
                 - "Political gain" should not be the basis for whether to investigate  suffragette   Oct-23-10 01:45 PM   #167 
                 - Based on the merit of the source , sure. If you have done any reading  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 03:10 PM   #172 
                 - It is not individuals who need to be on trial here, it is a system,  JDPriestly   Oct-23-10 03:15 PM   #173 
                    - That's Assange's goal and it will not happen. Most of the bodies  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 03:20 PM   #176 
                    - I hope you are right. You are probably right that probably only  JDPriestly   Oct-23-10 04:47 PM   #189 
                       - The US actions in Vietnam basically ignored civilians, not a great way to win.  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 05:04 PM   #193 
                    - "General Petraeus or the former General Wesley Clark are sadistic people"  ProudDad   Oct-23-10 10:26 PM   #199 
        - I agree with you. This may make it easier for the US to leave  JDPriestly   Oct-23-10 06:26 PM   #196 
  - Its just more "Change We Can Believe In"  saigon68   Oct-23-10 04:11 AM   #134 
  - By him not doing a whole lot about these leaks, he is doing us all a favor.  harun   Oct-23-10 02:52 PM   #171 
     - since no responsibilities are being requested...  liberation   Oct-23-10 03:28 PM   #178 
  - Let's have it all out in the open.  mbperrin   Oct-22-10 03:58 PM   #3 
  - The only reason it is out of the question,  bvar22   Oct-22-10 07:26 PM   #44 
     - Yep. It's not out of the question. Obama simply chooses to cover for the war criminals.  Iowa   Oct-22-10 09:58 PM   #73 
     - vs what exactly? please detail how he should handle the issue(nt)  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:01 PM   #75 
     - Actually, you raise an interesting question.  JDPriestly   Oct-23-10 03:37 PM   #181 
        - Civilians control the military. People like D Rumsfeld  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 03:48 PM   #186 
           - Civilians control the military -- in theory at least.  JDPriestly   Oct-23-10 04:43 PM   #188 
              - If it has to be public, this manner is better than a church comission type event  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 05:00 PM   #190 
                 - I agree that getting out is the top priority.  JDPriestly   Oct-23-10 07:00 PM   #198 
     - It is out of the question; because the whole Neocon empire's  ooglymoogly   Oct-23-10 11:32 AM   #152 
  - Wikileaks: Secret Iraq War Death Toll Set at 285,000  cal04   Oct-22-10 04:13 PM   #5 
  - Will be interesting to see how many we killed and how many  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 04:15 PM   #6 
     - The US Invasion and hostile Occupation spawned....  bvar22   Oct-22-10 07:28 PM   #45 
     - Amazing what lengths some will go to to avoid accountability.  OnyxCollie   Oct-22-10 09:50 PM   #68 
        - Hey I see 750,000 live bodies that were supposed to be dead accordign to lancet  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:56 PM   #71 
           - Thanks, Baghdad Bob. nt  OnyxCollie   Oct-22-10 09:57 PM   #72 
              - Hey the hague is waiting for Obama to hand him over..  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:00 PM   #74 
                 - Does your part about the war  OnyxCollie   Oct-22-10 10:12 PM   #78 
                    - How many bills passed to fund it, is it funded now?  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:17 PM   #79 
     - would have been interesting to see how many Iraqis would not have died ....  marasinghe   Oct-22-10 08:46 PM   #50 
        - Thought the sanctions killed a million  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:43 PM   #66 
           - So how much unnecessry DEATH are you OK with?  bvar22   Oct-23-10 09:27 AM   #146 
              - None, The Iraq war served no american interest. A colossal waste  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 09:34 AM   #147 
                 - You are mistaken.  bvar22   Oct-23-10 11:08 AM   #149 
                    - No real press did anything prior to invasion. No one saw information  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 11:11 AM   #150 
                       - And yet, most of us here at DU...  bvar22   Oct-23-10 11:47 AM   #154 
  - What is the appropriate international punishment for the USA?  Newsjock   Oct-22-10 04:25 PM   #7 
  - None. There will be much soap boxing but no consequences.  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 04:28 PM   #8 
  - Foreign money  Newsjock   Oct-22-10 04:29 PM   #10 
     - That supreme court case ties into Iraq? Note china revalued currency last week  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 04:31 PM   #11 
  - In the first place, it was not a "democratically elected government."  totodeinhere   Oct-22-10 09:36 PM   #62 
  - Economic sanctions would be the basic punishment  bhikkhu   Oct-23-10 12:16 PM   #157 
  - "Turned a blind eye"? Hardly. WE HELPED...  ixion   Oct-22-10 04:29 PM   #9 
  - Boy I would like to see the originals in a searchable format  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 04:33 PM   #13 
     - Here you go  Turborama   Oct-23-10 06:33 AM   #136 
        - Even better link  Turborama   Oct-23-10 07:38 AM   #138 
           - Off to a public computer with a thumb drive..(nt)  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 01:18 PM   #164 
  - Is this Reston5?  druidity33   Oct-22-10 04:32 PM   #12 
  - I'll be waiting to hear what the President's official line is on this.  Heywood J   Oct-22-10 04:35 PM   #14 
  - Yep, it took 30 years to figure out who killed Diem  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 04:38 PM   #16 
  - "(something, something)...change is hard...(something, something)...the road is long..."  Poll_Blind   Oct-22-10 04:42 PM   #18 
  - Twitter: Al Jazeera have broken our embargo by 30 minutes.  cal04   Oct-22-10 04:38 PM   #15 
  - Oh, my, I wonder if they are going to be in trouble!  kgnu_fan   Oct-22-10 05:02 PM   #27 
  - "Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R)  SpiralHawk   Oct-22-10 04:45 PM   #19 
  - First off  Xmit   Oct-22-10 10:21 PM   #80 
  - Steal the Iraq War Logs analysis (Creative Commons Licensed)  kgnu_fan   Oct-22-10 04:51 PM   #20 
  - 31 Iraq civilians dying every day during the six year period  kgnu_fan   Oct-22-10 05:00 PM   #22 
  - You left out the 40k from IED and 40K from sectarian numbers.  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 05:01 PM   #25 
     - No IED nor sectarian actions prior to the US occupation.  The abyss   Oct-22-10 05:54 PM   #38 
        - We did not drop the bodies. Sure it was a debacle but it is not dresden  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:25 PM   #54 
  - Julian, thank you. You are a brave man  kgnu_fan   Oct-22-10 05:01 PM   #24 
  - Thank Bradley Manning, the guy who will die in federal custody, assange  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 05:02 PM   #26 
     - No, wait, let me guess, you mass-post on all Wikileaks threads because you "don't care", right?  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 05:07 PM   #28 
     - Quite curious isn't it? n/t  Catherina   Oct-22-10 05:21 PM   #31 
     - I know, I've noticed it too. Concern troll is concerned, apparently. n/t  Poll_Blind   Oct-22-10 05:24 PM   #32 
     - Very concerned it seems. n/t  U4ikLefty   Oct-22-10 07:06 PM   #43 
     - He's concerned that you guys will not grasp how much he does not care...  liberation   Oct-23-10 03:44 PM   #184 
     - Put up or shut up, say Iran running ops or the not quite 1 millionbody stack  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:29 PM   #57 
        - "talking some shit is easy"  liberation   Oct-23-10 03:42 PM   #183 
           - I have content and ideas, you could use your brain to discuss the news cycle on this  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 03:50 PM   #187 
     - You wanna make him really not care? Say the word Chavez.  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 08:35 PM   #48 
     - Poor hugo, between fluffing china and iran he is running out  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:30 PM   #58 
        - Aaaaand he takes the bait! nt  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 09:50 PM   #69 
           - Oh boy oh boy, another cerebral response. wanna talk iran in iraq, percent of bodies dropped  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:53 PM   #70 
              - Oh no I wanna talk about the 2 books you've read that you keep talking about over and over again. Oh  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 10:22 PM   #82 
              - Ohh, I missed you content. busting my balls is entertaining, but lacks any grey matter effort  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:30 PM   #84 
                 - When talking about grey matter one should be able to write coherent sentences, number one.  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:17 PM   #90 
                    - Not one bit of content. all hat not a single fucking cow.  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:24 PM   #96 
                    - And as much shit as I keep putting out there you continue to swallow it whole. I'm deeply touched  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:32 PM   #99 
                       - Hey, Guy, this is getting boring. Wanna go see the giraffes? -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 11:40 PM   #105 
                       - Mejor vamos a ver dos moscas metiendo. Es mil veces mas interesante. nt  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:42 PM   #108 
                       - Post one comment with content. just one, try..  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:40 PM   #106 
                          - I'll have you know I'm a  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:48 PM   #114 
                             - Another empty post minus anything close to content? Yep that would be it(nt)  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:50 PM   #116 
                                - Well there was some content. Long content one might say. Some might even call it art. nt  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:52 PM   #119 
                    - dude..."The cardboard GI Joe shtick is really not impressive, sorry"  U4ikLefty   Oct-24-10 01:44 PM   #201 
              - Nothing cerebral is going on here.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 11:18 PM   #92 
                 - ANIMAL FARM READ FUCKING ANIMAL FARM!!!!! RED SHIRTS, YELLOW MOONS, ORANGE STARS, GREEN CLOVERS!!!!  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:24 PM   #95 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-22-10 11:26 PM   #97 
                       - Retards? My my aren't we touchy? Such ugly language from a dime store ''intellectual''. The  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:39 PM   #103 
                          - Content, still waiting for it. Regretfully it cant post its self >>?  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:45 PM   #109 
                          - You shall not have it.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 11:48 PM   #113 
                          - for the lulz, your post is almost /b quality, but even they post content(nt)  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:53 PM   #120 
                          - .  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:51 PM   #117 
                             - He's a right winger. An EXTREMELY RIGHT WING right winger. Want more reason than that?  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 11:54 PM   #121 
                                - The spelling always gives them away. nt  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:56 PM   #124 
                                - Yep, I am reich wing. So far to the right that I disregard all fact and never  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:59 PM   #125 
                          - They call it Anosognosic.  Jazzgirl   Oct-23-10 08:10 AM   #141 
     - I care so much. Got a point, care to discuss facts or just talking some shit?(nt)  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:26 PM   #55 
     - For all we know..  girl gone mad   Oct-22-10 08:30 PM   #47 
        - And assange is a honeypot, still one gets to portk swedish groupies, the other dies  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:27 PM   #56 
  - This will certainly put troops in danger....  LanternWaste   Oct-22-10 05:13 PM   #29 
  - Waiting for the documents. The real data is there, so far you have nothing  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:45 PM   #67 
  - Times Square:  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 05:33 PM   #33 
  - Nice shot, CPD! n/t  Poll_Blind   Oct-22-10 05:50 PM   #35 
  - 285,000...All I can do is hang my head...  Blue_Tires   Oct-22-10 09:40 PM   #64 
  - TORTURE  bigdaddycoles66   Oct-22-10 05:38 PM   #34 
  - Ask Dick Cheney  Rosa Luxemburg   Oct-22-10 05:54 PM   #39 
  - America's actions in the Iraq War is violation of Geneva  lovuian   Oct-22-10 05:50 PM   #36 
  - Didn't stop Bush and Cheney  Rosa Luxemburg   Oct-22-10 05:54 PM   #37 
  - Were not in Iraq, one guy died there this month.  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:35 PM   #61 
  - Just wish they didn't redact...  SnakeEyes   Oct-22-10 06:09 PM   #40 
  - You payed income tax, you own it.  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:32 PM   #59 
     - I don't own shit...  SnakeEyes   Oct-23-10 10:13 AM   #148 
        - Please. Every person there was not involved in any illegal activity.  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 01:16 PM   #162 
           - We have had terrorist attacks off and on for many years.  JDPriestly   Oct-23-10 06:56 PM   #197 
           - Yes they are... the entire wars are illegal.  SnakeEyes   Oct-25-10 03:08 AM   #202 
  - WikiLeaks Dumps 400,000 Military Documents Reportedly Containing Details on Iraqi Torture  cal04   Oct-22-10 06:40 PM   #41 
  - Seems logical.  Capitalocracy   Oct-22-10 07:01 PM   #42 
  - The Democratic Party Honor Roll:  bvar22   Oct-22-10 07:36 PM   #46 
  - +10000  G_j   Oct-22-10 09:05 PM   #51 
  - It's mainly Muslims who are suffering, so it won't change a damn thing in America.  Arrowhead2k1   Oct-22-10 08:40 PM   #49 
  - Heads Up: Live Stream Of Al Jazeera English "Iraq Secret Files" (Live Show That's Just Started)  Turborama   Oct-22-10 09:08 PM   #52 
  - Now we know (well, most of us had guessed) why the current administration didn't want  dflprincess   Oct-22-10 09:37 PM   #63 
  - so vote palin. maybe dennis k will send them to the hague  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 09:40 PM   #65 
     - Realistically,  bvar22   Oct-22-10 10:02 PM   #76 
     - Why make simple complex. People manipulated information  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:07 PM   #77 
        - In 2009 the United States deported an 89 year old man to Germany  dflprincess   Oct-22-10 10:27 PM   #83 
           - Because reality is real.  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:36 PM   #85 
              - A war of agression is a war crime  dflprincess   Oct-22-10 10:46 PM   #87 
              - Right. Just not enough to convict anybody of anything in the US  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:49 PM   #88 
              - they may be political decisions, but they are international actions  G_j   Oct-22-10 11:37 PM   #102 
                 - Right after Diem's killers stand trial...  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:47 PM   #111 
     - You call this "blather"?  Turborama   Oct-22-10 10:21 PM   #81 
        - I call that evidence. And poor bradley will pay for his lulz  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 10:38 PM   #86 
           - You know, you should use actual porn, sex porn, instead.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 11:22 PM   #94 
              - Can you pass a turing test are you just a shell  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:28 PM   #98 
              - Learn some geography. Oh, I forgot, Real Americans don't do that. -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 11:36 PM   #101 
                 - Aww did feelings get hurt, No Idea where you sit off of UK master time  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:49 PM   #115 
                    - That was utterly incomprehensible, even for your standards.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Oct-22-10 11:52 PM   #118 
                       - let me make a geography refrence here and be sure not to use the message block  Pavulon   Oct-22-10 11:55 PM   #122 
                       - This is almost Andy Kaufmanesque. THis is some serious Tony Clifton shit right here. But  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-22-10 11:56 PM   #123 
                       - $10 if you read the rolling stone article about the guys your strip refrences  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 12:01 AM   #126 
                          - Bwwwwaaaahaaahaaaaa!!!!! My strip... what??? Haaaahaaahaaa!!!! Stop it you're  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-23-10 12:06 AM   #128 
                             - Leet meeee post lotsss!!!! of STufff here... post ..may have been for CPD.. ppooooster... fuck  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 12:10 AM   #130 
                                - Oooh K you alright there champ? Take it easy I'm starting to get worried.  Guy Whitey Corngood   Oct-23-10 12:13 AM   #131 
                                   - Just fine, and for $100 Alex the answer is Motorhead, Lemmy was  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 12:17 AM   #132 
                                      - Wow this didn't get deleted, a testament to  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 08:02 AM   #139 
                       - You should try this one  Turborama   Oct-23-10 06:19 AM   #135 
                          - look at the post one above it..^^^^ note the similarity  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 08:03 AM   #140 
              - He can't get it up.  OnyxCollie   Oct-22-10 11:35 PM   #100 
  - K&R'd  snot   Oct-22-10 11:17 PM   #91 
  - K & R. Revelations and threads like this  chill_wind   Oct-23-10 01:24 AM   #133 
  - +1,000  suffragette   Oct-23-10 01:48 PM   #168 
  - And what will happen now is ...  panzerfaust   Oct-23-10 06:49 AM   #137 
  - Files: Iraqi deaths higher than US count  histeria   Oct-23-10 08:49 AM   #142 
  - Scale of War crime yes, but lies alone no  on point   Oct-23-10 08:50 AM   #143 
  - Any serious investigation or prosecution would evolve  ooglymoogly   Oct-23-10 11:58 AM   #155 
  - recommend  xchrom   Oct-23-10 08:50 AM   #144 
  - On NY radio last night..(CBS? I think) they said the documents show way way more civilian  flyarm   Oct-23-10 08:51 AM   #145 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-23-10 11:42 AM   #153 
  - Cheney and bush to the Hague  madmax   Oct-23-10 11:58 AM   #156 
  - *  Drops_not_Dope   Oct-23-10 02:35 PM   #169 
  - Why is Julian still alive?  JustABozoOnThisBus   Oct-23-10 03:28 PM   #179 
  - Why not? We need more man who is brave enough to risk his life for TRUTH  kgnu_fan   Oct-23-10 05:03 PM   #192 
  - Bradley Manning? He is the real source, Assange is just basking in his lost lulz..(nt)  Pavulon   Oct-23-10 05:05 PM   #194 
  - 'Cause he's very, very careful? (n/t)  ProudDad   Oct-23-10 10:27 PM   #200 
  - more "don't ask don't tell"  nashville_brook   Oct-23-10 03:28 PM   #180 
  - Is not divide and conquer  felix_numinous   Oct-23-10 05:42 PM   #195 

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