Bragi
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Wed Sep-15-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #80 |
| 96. It was all about communications |
|
Edited on Wed Sep-15-10 08:42 PM by Bragi
Thanks for the patriotic speech, but I think I know why the admin used the "protect our troops" meme.
They habitually think it's clever to use the "other side's" issue framing -- as in "support the troops" -- because they think it gives them a slam dunk, air tight argument no opponent can assail.
I think it's a long term mistake. They should use issue framing that properly makes their case, not the other guys.
At any rate, if the Muslim world were to rise in great anger over any perceived religious insult, concerns about troops being in any additional jeopardy are not the main worry for the President. It's the safety and protection of American soft targets that is truly worrisome.
|
| - Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit |
kpete |
Sep-15-10 09:36 AM |
#0 |
 -
I have the feeling this will be a court case... |
WillParkinson |
Sep-15-10 09:40 AM |
#1 |
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my guess is that it won't even get that far. |
tk2kewl |
Sep-15-10 09:42 AM |
#2 |
| -
ACLU has chimed in, but I see no sign of support from the NJ Transit workers' union |
slackmaster |
Sep-15-10 09:42 AM |
#3 |
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It is somewhat irrelevant. |
djg21 |
Sep-16-10 08:32 AM |
#131 |
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DId he do it at work? Was he wearing his uniform when doing it? |
Love Bug |
Sep-15-10 09:43 AM |
#4 |
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I agree. |
E-Z-B |
Sep-15-10 11:36 AM |
#30 |
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I'm with you. n/t |
SusanaMontana41 |
Sep-15-10 06:01 PM |
#83 |
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Generally speaking, from the legal analysis I have read |
mjane |
Sep-15-10 06:20 PM |
#85 |
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That's a bit facile--- |
msanthrope |
Sep-16-10 10:51 AM |
#142 |
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You are right on! / |
golfguru |
Sep-15-10 11:08 PM |
#109 |
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Yep. |
proteus_lives |
Sep-15-10 11:21 PM |
#112 |
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I oppose Koran-burning, but firing him was wrong. |
closeupready |
Sep-15-10 09:44 AM |
#5 |
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Maybe they were concerned about security impacts and the coming fatwa |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 09:54 AM |
#6 |
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He'll have to have an office job or janitorial or such. If he was a train |
kestrel91316 |
Sep-15-10 10:02 AM |
#7 |
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He may need 24/7 security indefinitely |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 11:01 AM |
#16 |
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he made himself personally a target. |
mcollins |
Sep-15-10 02:30 PM |
#66 |
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Well stated |
customerserviceguy |
Sep-15-10 08:41 PM |
#98 |
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Good. This Tea Party asshole will now get the gov't. handouts he despises so much (UI, food stamps) |
ClarkUSA |
Sep-15-10 10:03 AM |
#8 |
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In the meantime he will file a frivilous lawsuit with some activist judge.n/t |
denverbill |
Sep-15-10 10:21 AM |
#9 |
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Looks like the ACLU is angling for the job, which is why I am not a member anymore. nt |
ClarkUSA |
Sep-15-10 10:53 AM |
#14 |
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I am, and quite supportive of them protecting the right to free speech /nt |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 11:02 AM |
#17 |
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Yelling "fire" in a theatre, burning a Koran when troops are in the harm's way; it's the same to me |
ClarkUSA |
Sep-15-10 11:22 AM |
#22 |
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The "danger to troops" thing is nonsense |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 02:47 PM |
#68 |
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So given all that power, why haven't we beaten two countries who don't have a ship |
mbperrin |
Sep-15-10 04:20 PM |
#75 |
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Yes, the war is being lost |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 08:40 PM |
#97 |
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So we beat Germany and Japan because we had a real government |
mbperrin |
Sep-15-10 10:03 PM |
#106 |
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Obviously you don't understand difference betw Guerrilla war & |
golfguru |
Sep-15-10 11:12 PM |
#110 |
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Oh, so Hitler was too stupid to fight the superior guerrilla war, then. |
mbperrin |
Sep-15-10 11:47 PM |
#115 |
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Thank you for a good laugh / |
golfguru |
Sep-16-10 12:21 AM |
#116 |
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Oh, no, thank YOU. |
mbperrin |
Sep-16-10 06:57 AM |
#122 |
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You are thinking war against a 'state' |
mcollins |
Sep-16-10 11:30 AM |
#146 |
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For openers, Yes, Hitler was stupid |
golfguru |
Sep-16-10 09:57 PM |
#151 |
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Yes, and those ragtags always win, including our own Revolution |
mbperrin |
Sep-17-10 08:09 AM |
#153 |
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You are so naive...you think Hitler could have been defeated by Guerrilla's? |
golfguru |
Sep-17-10 12:36 PM |
# |
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You are so naive...you think Hitler could have been defeated by Guerrilla's? |
golfguru |
Sep-17-10 12:36 PM |
#154 |
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You know nothing of the resistance movements in various |
mbperrin |
Sep-17-10 03:37 PM |
#155 |
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Nothing persona and I like you because |
golfguru |
Sep-17-10 03:55 PM |
#156 |
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Nothing personal and I like you because |
golfguru |
Sep-17-10 03:55 PM |
#157 |
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Pres. Obama, Sec. of Defense Gates and General Petraeus all disagree with you. |
ClarkUSA |
Sep-15-10 05:42 PM |
#80 |
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It was all about communications |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 08:35 PM |
#96 |
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Bragi...your post wins the award of ... |
golfguru |
Sep-16-10 09:59 PM |
#152 |
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I disagree completely |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 03:03 PM |
#69 |
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Actually no |
mjane |
Sep-15-10 06:21 PM |
#86 |
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Free speech is not so easily disposed of /nt |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 08:43 PM |
#99 |
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Ahhhhh so you believe in "selective" free speech only / |
golfguru |
Sep-15-10 11:14 PM |
#111 |
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Ditto |
BBG |
Sep-15-10 09:41 PM |
#105 |
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So free speech is only for those who think and look like you? |
24601 |
Sep-15-10 06:12 PM |
#84 |
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53% in the accompanying poll agree with his firing. |
Historic NY |
Sep-15-10 10:24 AM |
#10 |
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Our constitutional rights are not subjects to the whims of the polls n/t |
kirby |
Sep-15-10 12:07 PM |
#42 |
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A wise college poli. sci. prof. of mine... |
Chan790 |
Sep-15-10 09:07 PM |
#102 |
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who wants an arsonist working for their organization? |
frylock |
Sep-15-10 10:31 AM |
#11 |
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Not Sure if Serious |
mudderfudder77 |
Sep-15-10 10:44 AM |
#12 |
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Protected by whom? |
Dogtown |
Sep-15-10 10:55 AM |
#15 |
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As per the article, he violated the company's code of ethics... |
LanternWaste |
Sep-15-10 11:14 AM |
#19 |
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And if your contract stipulated that voting democratic reflected badly upon the company? -NT- |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 11:26 AM |
#24 |
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Knowing that it conflicted with my beliefs, I'd not have signed. n/t |
Akoto |
Sep-15-10 11:33 AM |
#27 |
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How do you know what it conflicted with |
mjane |
Sep-15-10 06:27 PM |
#89 |
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I was responding to the poster's hypothetical question. |
Akoto |
Sep-16-10 10:40 AM |
#137 |
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I would not have signed and would not be working here. |
LanternWaste |
Sep-15-10 11:35 AM |
#29 |
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So the choice is free exercise of your rights or destitution? |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 11:45 AM |
#33 |
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um... voting is secret in this country. nt. |
druidity33 |
Sep-15-10 02:02 PM |
#62 |
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Ok, I'll give you that. How about... |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 02:40 PM |
#67 |
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The "company" in this case, is a government agency. |
Xithras |
Sep-15-10 11:49 AM |
#36 |
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+1 nt. |
Hosnon |
Sep-15-10 01:57 PM |
#60 |
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Any contract signed by a public employee |
mjane |
Sep-15-10 06:25 PM |
#88 |
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Your company doesn't have to comply with the first amendment |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 08:08 AM |
#128 |
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His action was NOT similar to burning a flag... more like burning a cross- it was/is hate speech. n/ |
stlsaxman |
Sep-15-10 07:20 PM |
#94 |
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Hate speech is still free speech. (nt) |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 07:54 AM |
#124 |
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In Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942) |
SOS |
Sep-16-10 10:47 AM |
#140 |
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He was not charged with arson (or anything else) /nt |
Bragi |
Sep-15-10 03:10 PM |
#71 |
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What utter crap |
mjane |
Sep-15-10 06:23 PM |
#87 |
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i haven't seen any war protesters burning the flag.. |
frylock |
Sep-15-10 07:02 PM |
#91 |
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Rachel Corrie burned a US flag |
mjane |
Sep-15-10 07:08 PM |
#93 |
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you're right.. |
frylock |
Sep-15-10 08:50 PM |
#100 |
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That I can agree with |
mjane |
Sep-15-10 09:04 PM |
#101 |
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LOL...as requested, war protestors burning flags right here... |
Rage for Order |
Sep-15-10 11:05 PM |
#108 |
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People get fired for facebook posts, smoking outside of work, etc all the time. |
jmm |
Sep-15-10 10:44 AM |
#13 |
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Yup, and the type of people who would burn a Koran have no problem with the despicable practice;... |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 11:18 AM |
#20 |
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Good catch. (n/t) |
Nihil |
Sep-15-10 11:48 AM |
#35 |
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Totally different ball game when the government is doing the firing. nt. |
Hosnon |
Sep-15-10 01:55 PM |
#58 |
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The government has a history of firing people for their behavior off of the job. (n/t) |
jmm |
Sep-15-10 07:04 PM |
#92 |
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The key difference |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 07:57 AM |
#125 |
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Not all those "other people" worked for private companies |
jmm |
Sep-16-10 08:48 AM |
#134 |
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Those two examples would make good court tests. |
jayfish |
Sep-16-10 09:32 AM |
#135 |
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There's some problems with your examples |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 12:22 PM |
#148 |
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Depends on what is written in his employment contract |
prolesunited |
Sep-15-10 11:06 AM |
#18 |
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You Cannot Give Up Your Constitutional Rights Via Contract Negotiation. |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 11:23 AM |
#23 |
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Constitutional rights were never infringed. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 11:27 AM |
#25 |
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No, if there is a penalty directly associated with exorcising your right, it's... |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 11:44 AM |
#31 |
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If I call you a fucking troll and Skinner deletes my post... |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 11:46 AM |
#34 |
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Really, Your Going To Go There With Me? Over A Genuine Discussion? |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 12:04 PM |
#39 |
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It's a hypothetical question. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 12:07 PM |
#41 |
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No They Have Not. |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 12:15 PM |
#44 |
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Well then there you go. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 12:22 PM |
#45 |
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If you can't see the difference between non-political speech... |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 12:30 PM |
#46 |
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It's not my fault you've contradicted yourself, or that you don't understand the first amendment. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 12:35 PM |
#48 |
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Who Doesn't Understand The First Amendment? |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 12:48 PM |
#51 |
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Save your energy, Jayfish. |
Chan790 |
Sep-15-10 09:21 PM |
#104 |
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You think DU is private? |
boppers |
Sep-16-10 01:39 AM |
#120 |
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I don't think it's private. It is a privately owned and operated site. -NT- |
jayfish |
Sep-16-10 07:43 AM |
#123 |
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compare apples to apples |
RantinRavin |
Sep-15-10 01:23 PM |
#54 |
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No, but... |
Chan790 |
Sep-15-10 09:18 PM |
#103 |
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No, because DU is not the government |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 08:02 AM |
#126 |
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He was fired by the GOVERNMENT..rights infringed n/t |
kirby |
Sep-15-10 12:10 PM |
#43 |
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Is he facing criminal charges? Is he prevented from burning Korans? |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 12:36 PM |
#49 |
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You don't get it... |
kirby |
Sep-15-10 01:50 PM |
#56 |
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I get what you're saying, kirby. You're just ridiculously wrong. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 04:02 PM |
#74 |
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"Fenton was an assistant train-consist coordinator, sources said - a job that entails ensuring..." |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 04:42 PM |
#76 |
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Yes. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 04:49 PM |
#77 |
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You're missing it again. |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 04:58 PM |
#78 |
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Would you not fire somebody for burning a cross? |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 05:04 PM |
#79 |
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I Haven't Dodged Anything. |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 07:21 PM |
#95 |
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It is not a matter of what I would like done |
joeglow3 |
Sep-16-10 08:41 AM |
#132 |
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Our rights wouldn't mean squat if the government could punish the exercise thereof. nt. |
Hosnon |
Sep-15-10 01:58 PM |
#61 |
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They were indeed infringed. |
NutmegYankee |
Sep-15-10 05:55 PM |
#82 |
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Horseshit. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 10:05 PM |
#107 |
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Your post is 100% wrong. |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 08:14 AM |
#129 |
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HOLY FUCKING SHIT... |
joeglow3 |
Sep-16-10 08:43 AM |
#133 |
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lol |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-16-10 10:35 AM |
#136 |
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I think a lot of posters here seem to think that the State must suffer all lunatics simply because |
msanthrope |
Sep-16-10 10:45 AM |
#138 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-16-10 10:48 AM |
#141 |
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It's an interesting contrast you note...I wonder how many here support the Birther Lt. Col. Lakin |
msanthrope |
Sep-16-10 10:59 AM |
#143 |
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I do seem to remember Keith Olbermann arguing that Lakin never had a case. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-16-10 11:02 AM |
#144 |
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I've asked a few legal eagles on this thread how this firing squares with Rankin v. McPherson and |
msanthrope |
Sep-16-10 11:23 AM |
#145 |
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It's interesting but it's also apples and oranges. |
jayfish |
Sep-16-10 12:26 PM |
#149 |
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Who gets to decide??? |
joeglow3 |
Sep-16-10 12:18 PM |
#147 |
| -
Agreed |
prolesunited |
Sep-15-10 11:44 AM |
#32 |
| -
See #38 -NT- |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 12:06 PM |
#40 |
| -
You yanks are surely proving that.. |
Kristin av Havn |
Sep-15-10 01:26 PM |
#55 |
| -
When it comes to the Constitution, property rights are defined by state law. |
Hosnon |
Sep-15-10 02:04 PM |
#64 |
| -
You can't sign away ANY legally protected rights in a contract negotiation. |
Xithras |
Sep-15-10 11:55 AM |
#37 |
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Thank you for stating that so clearly. So many people don't get that. |
closeupready |
Sep-15-10 03:08 PM |
#70 |
| -
Conditioning. -NT- |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 03:11 PM |
#72 |
| -
Dr. Laura quit |
Mz Pip |
Sep-15-10 01:55 PM |
#59 |
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All of the decisions, restricting speech, discussed on that page... |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 12:00 PM |
#38 |
| -
He should get his job back |
Stuckinthebush |
Sep-15-10 11:18 AM |
#21 |
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They're only protecting themselves. |
Dappleganger |
Sep-15-10 11:29 AM |
#26 |
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So we are going to go around in fear of terrorists, giving up our constitutional rights? |
totodeinhere |
Sep-15-10 12:41 PM |
#50 |
| -
What is the world coming to... |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Sep-15-10 11:34 AM |
#28 |
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Transit. Think about it. Terror target. Employee. The guy is a walking liability. |
truthisfreedom |
Sep-15-10 12:33 PM |
#47 |
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Agreed--this is what makes what he did job-related. But is there precedent or |
ProgressiveEconomist |
Sep-15-10 02:02 PM |
#63 |
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The only reason we know where he worked is because of the arrest |
Love Bug |
Sep-15-10 02:12 PM |
#65 |
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Isn't publicity inevitable when you burn the holy book of the world's largest religion? |
ProgressiveEconomist |
Sep-16-10 12:22 AM |
#117 |
| -
Free speech is hard |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 08:05 AM |
#127 |
| -
LOLOLOLOL! Looks like there is a "price" for being "crazy"! |
SoapBox |
Sep-15-10 01:10 PM |
#52 |
| -
What's the definition of "reflects badly on the company"? |
jayfish |
Sep-15-10 01:15 PM |
#53 |
| -
Not only do I not agree with the decision to fire him, he might have a valid |
Hosnon |
Sep-15-10 01:53 PM |
#57 |
| -
NY Daily News gives out vital info for reprisals: Derek Fenton, 39, of Bloomingdale, N.J |
Turborama |
Sep-15-10 03:12 PM |
#73 |
| -
I cannot agree with this. |
NutmegYankee |
Sep-15-10 05:49 PM |
#81 |
| -
He could be burned alive on Al Jazeera |
maxsolomon |
Sep-15-10 06:48 PM |
#90 |
| -
Do you still believe Rumsfeld's meme that Al Jazeera is a "terrorist news organization"? |
Turborama |
Sep-15-10 11:34 PM |
#114 |
| -
I used Al Jazeera because i assume they are more likely to see that channel |
maxsolomon |
Sep-16-10 12:31 PM |
#150 |
| -
Pretty sad how many here are willing to throw out the Constitutional Rights out with the teabagger. |
proteus_lives |
Sep-15-10 11:23 PM |
#113 |
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This just shows that if you're an employee |
ProudDad |
Sep-16-10 01:10 AM |
#118 |
| -
Not a free speech issue |
ProudDad |
Sep-16-10 01:14 AM |
#119 |
| -
'fraid not |
jeff47 |
Sep-16-10 08:20 AM |
#130 |
| -
Actually, that's a bit facile.... |
msanthrope |
Sep-16-10 10:47 AM |
#139 |
| -
Tonight, Keith Olbermann named NJ Transit Worst Person in the World. n/t |
robertpaulsen |
Sep-16-10 01:40 AM |
#121 |
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