Unvanguard
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Tue May-18-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #85 |
| 135. Did you bother reading the opinion? |
|
Even just the official summary?
The argument you have just made about sentencing is not an unreasonable argument, but it has nothing to do with the claim at issue in the case, which is solely one of federalism. Scalia and Thomas are occasionally on the right side of a close issue when it comes to criminal procedure, but when they are, Stevens and Ginsburg are usually with them. This has nothing to do with criminal procedure and everything to do with the Necessary and Proper Clause, which the dissent interprets in an extremely narrow and untenable way.
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| -Court: Sexually dangerous can be kept in prison |
IScreamSundays |
May-17-10 09:42 AM |
#0 |
 -
What does "sexually dangerous" mean? |
marmar |
May-17-10 09:44 AM |
#1 |
 -
Yes, a slippery slope. I agree. |
activa8tr |
May-17-10 09:49 AM |
#2 |
| -
pedophiles who have a high probability of recidivism |
yurbud |
May-17-10 09:52 AM |
#3 |
 -
How 'bout if you were "declared" sexually dangerous? I agree that............ |
pattmarty |
May-17-10 10:29 AM |
#18 |
| -
they could use this as the first step on the slippery slope, but if they specified pedophiles and |
yurbud |
May-17-10 01:06 PM |
#41 |
| -
It does specify that |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 02:50 PM |
#157 |
| -
High heels are dangerous...eom |
Kolesar |
May-17-10 10:00 AM |
#6 |
| -
Probably spelled out in the statute. |
elleng |
May-17-10 10:04 AM |
#11 |
| -
It is spelled out |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 02:52 PM |
#158 |
| -
You beat me to it, I was thinking exactly the same "vague" thing........... |
pattmarty |
May-17-10 10:25 AM |
#17 |
| -
Mentally ill and a danger to others, n/t |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:55 PM |
#36 |
| -
And that includes a diagnosis of pedophilia |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 02:59 PM |
#159 |
| -
Liable to infect the free population with disease? |
marshall |
May-17-10 02:38 PM |
#55 |
| -
No |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:00 PM |
#160 |
| -
Sort of like "terrorist", kiss your human and Constitutional rights goodbye is what it means. nt |
bemildred |
May-17-10 05:45 PM |
#67 |
| -
That was my first response. |
harry_pothead |
May-17-10 08:27 PM |
#72 |
| -
Public urination earned someone a spot on a registered sex offender |
bullwinkle428 |
May-17-10 09:22 PM |
#80 |
| -
I saw that on a CBS news program |
Kolesar |
May-18-10 06:11 AM |
#90 |
| -
"I was just peeing" is a classic defense by exhibitionists.... |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 10:22 AM |
#97 |
| -
Should "exhibitionism" be grounds for forever detention? n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
May-18-10 10:38 AM |
#100 |
| -
Explain to me how that would happen under this federal statute. n/t |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 11:04 AM |
#103 |
| -
It's your contention, not mine. |
lumberjack_jeff |
May-18-10 11:13 AM |
#104 |
| -
I think you are confusing me with someone else....I merely |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 12:22 PM |
#110 |
| -
You don't understand the law. |
madmusic |
May-18-10 11:50 AM |
#106 |
| -
You are quoting (incompletely) an opinion of a defense attorney, not the law. |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 12:48 PM |
#111 |
| -
need not be in custody for ... (or) ever been convicted of a sex crime. |
madmusic |
May-18-10 01:06 PM |
#114 |
| -
Again--tell me how your bank robber becomes "sexually dangerous." |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 01:38 PM |
#120 |
| -
In other words, if really, really evil, should we waive the Bill of Rights? |
madmusic |
May-18-10 03:26 PM |
#130 |
| -
In other words, you can't tell me how this law would do what you claim it will do. |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 04:02 PM |
#136 |
| -
In other words, you can't tell me how this law would do what you claim it will do. |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 04:02 PM |
#137 |
| -
A federal sex offense |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:05 PM |
#163 |
| -
BTW, ignoring the defense bar is like watching FOXNEWS. |
madmusic |
May-18-10 01:13 PM |
#117 |
| -
I'm not ignoring my brethren---but read that quote again. |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 01:43 PM |
#121 |
| -
You are dead on |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:04 PM |
#162 |
| -
No, it's not |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:01 PM |
#161 |
| -
Here's the statutory language |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 02:44 PM |
#156 |
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Has a lot to do with the issue of competence, kind of like the insanity defense |
ck4829 |
May-17-10 09:55 AM |
#4 |
| -
This is how police states are born |
ixion |
May-17-10 09:57 AM |
#5 |
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I Had That Thought As Well (nt) |
Dinger |
May-17-10 10:01 AM |
#7 |
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That's where the Soviet dictators put their dissidents |
Kolesar |
May-17-10 10:02 AM |
#8 |
| -
That's what I was thinking of - "mental hospital". |
Hassin Bin Sober |
May-17-10 10:04 PM |
#82 |
| -
+1 for your comment. Very true. n/t |
Poll_Blind |
May-17-10 10:55 AM |
#24 |
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Of course, we've had a federal confinement law on the books since the 1940s---- |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:44 PM |
#31 |
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Don't be melodramatic. No one is proposing indefinite detention |
kestrel91316 |
May-17-10 01:50 PM |
#49 |
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That they propose it for ANYONE is an abomination |
ixion |
May-17-10 04:06 PM |
#60 |
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Mentally ill people who are a danger to others should be confined. n/t |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 06:48 PM |
#71 |
| -
And the slippery slope begins |
Juche |
May-18-10 11:57 AM |
#108 |
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Tell me how Mr. Crawford is locked up w/o constitutional protections? |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 02:55 PM |
#127 |
| -
You said "Mentally ill people who are a danger to others should be confined. n/t" |
Juche |
May-18-10 03:21 PM |
#129 |
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Comstock is a violent serial predator----grade school guidance counselor |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 04:10 PM |
#138 |
| -
I don't think possession of CP deserves a life sentence |
Juche |
May-18-10 05:47 PM |
#141 |
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He got three years for aggravated indecent liberties with a child (x2) |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 07:27 PM |
#142 |
| -
what about if they're a danger to themselves? |
sui generis |
May-18-10 02:18 PM |
#124 |
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If they are a danger to themselves then that supports civil confinement, right? |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 03:12 PM |
#128 |
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I'm focused on the process, not the individual |
sui generis |
May-18-10 03:45 PM |
#131 |
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Which is why you ought to read the statute, and tell me which |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 03:57 PM |
#133 |
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We're not really talking about the mentally ill |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:10 PM |
#165 |
| -
+1000 |
AnOhioan |
May-18-10 09:05 PM |
#145 |
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Put the whole catholic church in jail for life! |
dickthegrouch |
May-18-10 01:57 AM |
#86 |
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Sexually dangerous is specified |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:08 PM |
#164 |
| -
are we still in America? |
sui generis |
May-17-10 10:02 AM |
#9 |
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A judge, you mean. |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:48 PM |
#33 |
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oh okay. special statutes for special people. |
sui generis |
May-17-10 02:13 PM |
#50 |
| -
the law does apply equally, for all people. Tell me how Equal Protection is violated here? |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 03:29 PM |
#58 |
| -
If you want to keep someone in prison for being mentally ill |
sui generis |
May-18-10 10:16 AM |
#95 |
| -
The DSM doesn't define pedophilia? Other disorders? |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 10:52 AM |
#102 |
| -
Yes, I am seriously suggesting that. |
sui generis |
May-18-10 11:59 AM |
#109 |
| -
What did the non-criminal mentally ill ever do to deserve being housed |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 01:05 PM |
#113 |
| -
well typically they aren't housed together. |
sui generis |
May-18-10 01:09 PM |
#115 |
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right--the criminally mentally ill are housed in facilities like Butner, |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 01:22 PM |
#119 |
| -
no they didn't. |
sui generis |
May-18-10 01:55 PM |
#123 |
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It's not an extension of sentence--it's civil confinement of an un rehabilitated child molester. |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 02:51 PM |
#126 |
| -
I was talking about SCOTUS support of the decision |
sui generis |
May-18-10 03:45 PM |
#132 |
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Right--because defending Mr. Comstock himself has become difficult, seeing |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 04:30 PM |
#139 |
| -
and I've asked you repeatedly |
sui generis |
May-19-10 08:03 AM |
#150 |
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Actually, this is the first time you've |
msanthrope |
May-19-10 10:20 AM |
#153 |
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They did |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:13 PM |
#166 |
| -
But is the judge really doing the certification? |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:15 PM |
#167 |
| -
Why not have a longer prison sentence to begin with? |
Jennicut |
May-17-10 10:04 AM |
#10 |
| -
In California for instance... |
IScreamSundays |
May-17-10 10:15 AM |
#16 |
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No. You don't get a prison sentence for being mentally ill. |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:54 PM |
#35 |
| -
One could argue it is a thin line between true mental illness |
Jennicut |
May-17-10 01:40 PM |
#47 |
| -
Pedophiles should serve very long prison sentences. |
Are_grits_groceries |
May-17-10 10:10 AM |
#12 |
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"The ruling was 7-2, with Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas in dissent." |
ProSense |
May-17-10 10:10 AM |
#13 |
| -
I figured it would make a few heads around here explode |
customerserviceguy |
May-17-10 05:20 PM |
#64 |
| -
I agree with the DP for child molesters, but |
harry_pothead |
May-17-10 08:36 PM |
#73 |
| -
At this point in time |
customerserviceguy |
May-17-10 09:26 PM |
#81 |
| -
Now it is the mentally ill |
Juche |
May-18-10 02:47 PM |
#125 |
| -
That's because they abuse their own family members. |
harry_pothead |
May-19-10 02:46 AM |
#147 |
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The actual statutory language os more specific |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:17 PM |
#168 |
| -
I don't think you can simplify it to that extent. |
wickerwoman |
May-18-10 03:03 AM |
#87 |
| -
Scalia and Thomas only two Justices to dissent from this decision |
Freddie Stubbs |
May-17-10 10:12 AM |
#14 |
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I can't even express how insane it is that those two were the ones that seem the most rational |
MessiahRp |
May-17-10 10:35 AM |
#19 |
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You might want to read the grounds for Thomas' dissent before you call it "rational" |
depakid |
May-17-10 10:38 AM |
#20 |
| -
So glad you agree with their opinions |
elleng |
May-17-10 10:55 AM |
#23 |
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Sorry to say, the dissenters have a valid point on the Federalism angle, too. |
Lance_Boyle |
May-18-10 10:36 AM |
#99 |
| -
As is usually the case with the Court, |
elleng |
May-18-10 10:51 AM |
#101 |
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No, they are federal statutes. Federal prisoners, federal statutes. |
Unvanguard |
May-18-10 03:58 PM |
#134 |
| -
What's worse..... |
DeSwiss |
May-17-10 12:30 PM |
#29 |
| -
You might try reading Thomas's dissent--which calls for hamstringing Congress |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:46 PM |
#32 |
| -
Yes, and that's the problem. |
harry_pothead |
May-17-10 08:38 PM |
#74 |
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...because the decision had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with civil liberties |
Unvanguard |
May-17-10 06:16 PM |
#69 |
| -
preditors |
herbm |
May-17-10 10:13 AM |
#15 |
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Tell me how habeas does not apply. Show me how either due process is |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:59 PM |
#39 |
| -
confining them in prison you mean? |
sui generis |
May-17-10 02:17 PM |
#53 |
| -
Yes. You need to add to that. Explain to me how this detention is |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 03:13 PM |
#56 |
| -
Why? |
sui generis |
May-18-10 10:10 AM |
#92 |
| -
Can't explain it, then? You just 'feel' it's wrong? |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 10:19 AM |
#96 |
| -
please go bow and scrape before authority yourself. |
sui generis |
May-18-10 11:54 AM |
#107 |
| -
"People are horrible judges of character, which is why we use the DSM" |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 01:03 PM |
#112 |
| -
and have you stopped beating your wife? |
sui generis |
May-18-10 01:13 PM |
#116 |
| -
Who do you think makes this call? |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:21 PM |
#169 |
| -
How about the due process issues and equal protection issues? |
Alcibiades |
May-19-10 03:24 PM |
#170 |
| -
due process |
herbm |
May-17-10 11:19 PM |
#84 |
| -
I'd like to read the dissenting opinion by Franz Kafka |
Orrex |
May-17-10 10:52 AM |
#21 |
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"...can INDEFINITELY hold..." Just think about that. n/t |
Poll_Blind |
May-17-10 10:54 AM |
#22 |
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Good. Those who are mentally and a danger to others should be held. n/t |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 01:03 PM |
#40 |
| -
I agree. |
JoeyT |
May-17-10 04:16 PM |
#61 |
| -
We shouldn't have this law because of Satanic Panic? |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 06:47 PM |
#70 |
| -
There's an excellent documentary called "Paradise Lost" |
wickerwoman |
May-18-10 03:09 AM |
#88 |
| -
If you actually read the law, then you'd know there is periodic review. |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 10:10 AM |
#93 |
| -
We just had a case of a dangerous sexual predator out after 30 years |
leftyladyfrommo |
May-17-10 11:12 AM |
#25 |
| -
Solicitor General Elena Kagan successfully argued |
elleng |
May-17-10 12:05 PM |
#26 |
| -
Good for her. It's a good law. n/t |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:56 PM |
#37 |
| -
Here is the Opinion |
happyslug |
May-17-10 12:19 PM |
#27 |
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It's a good read on the Necessary and Proper clause....n/t |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 12:49 PM |
#34 |
| -
K&R |
DeSwiss |
May-17-10 12:28 PM |
#28 |
| -
with sexualized violence against women at epidemic proportions, |
BlancheSplanchnik |
May-17-10 12:35 PM |
#30 |
| -
Until some 19 year old is declared "sexually dangerous" |
harry_pothead |
May-17-10 08:45 PM |
#75 |
| -
One more thing |
harry_pothead |
May-17-10 08:56 PM |
#77 |
| -
It's popular to vallainize sex offenders. |
Courtesy Flush |
May-17-10 12:59 PM |
#38 |
| -
This might be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this site...n/t |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 01:07 PM |
#42 |
| -
I hope you're talking about my spelling (damn IE6 at work) |
Courtesy Flush |
May-17-10 02:14 PM |
#51 |
| -
The sex abuse victims that this law protects |
customerserviceguy |
May-17-10 05:24 PM |
#65 |
| -
That would be nice if it were true, but how do you know this "fact?" |
harry_pothead |
May-17-10 08:48 PM |
#76 |
| -
Just go to each of the states that rates sexual offenders on a multi-level system |
customerserviceguy |
May-17-10 09:02 PM |
#79 |
| -
"They're violent, evil vermin" does that include child porn possession? |
madmusic |
May-18-10 03:36 AM |
#89 |
| -
Anyone who gets off on kiddie porn |
customerserviceguy |
May-18-10 05:06 PM |
#140 |
| -
Comstock's defenders seem to want to forget the other felonies..... |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 07:34 PM |
#144 |
| -
The Comstock defenders are coming! |
madmusic |
May-19-10 02:58 AM |
#148 |
| -
Why are you minimizing the crimes of these sex offenders? |
msanthrope |
May-19-10 01:34 PM |
#154 |
| -
You demonstrate the dangers of the slippery slope |
madmusic |
May-19-10 02:43 PM |
#155 |
| -
You do realize that Comstock did a hell of a lot more than possess child porn, right? |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 07:30 PM |
#143 |
| -
no, defending this split decision would qualify |
sui generis |
May-17-10 02:16 PM |
#52 |
| -
It's not right to confine the mentally ill who are a danger to others? |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 03:15 PM |
#57 |
| -
confine them in prison? |
sui generis |
May-18-10 10:12 AM |
#94 |
| -
I just think, why not make longer prison terms for sex offenders rather than... |
Poll_Blind |
May-17-10 01:30 PM |
#44 |
| -
You're so right - I can't think of a more misunderstood group of individuals. |
devilgrrl |
May-17-10 03:38 PM |
#59 |
| -
I think the main priority should be protecting society |
marshall |
May-19-10 06:54 AM |
#149 |
| -
This will be a great way to imprision political dissidents in the future! |
Poll_Blind |
May-17-10 01:26 PM |
#43 |
| -
How??? Seriously...can you explain how habeas doesn't apply? n/t |
msanthrope |
May-17-10 01:39 PM |
#46 |
| -
Reference to the slippery slope theory. |
Akoto |
May-17-10 06:00 PM |
#68 |
| -
Exactly right. |
harry_pothead |
May-17-10 09:00 PM |
#78 |
| -
Yep. Plant some kiddy porn on their computer, send in the FBI, and incarcerate them for life. |
Xithras |
May-18-10 01:55 PM |
#122 |
| -
Decision |
elleng |
May-17-10 01:32 PM |
#45 |
| -
Good. That means states can seek mandatory minimum sentences not sex offender registries |
alp227 |
May-17-10 01:49 PM |
#48 |
| -
It didn't actually rule that they can. |
Unvanguard |
May-17-10 02:23 PM |
#54 |
| -
Wow, damn near every argument in favor of this ruling |
JoeyT |
May-17-10 04:27 PM |
#62 |
| -
Every state that I've heard of |
customerserviceguy |
May-17-10 05:26 PM |
#66 |
| -
Actually, the arguments here are quite different |
depakid |
May-17-10 10:07 PM |
#83 |
| -
Fuck em. DNA on a child younger than 12 should earn life |
Pavulon |
May-17-10 04:45 PM |
#63 |
| -
Terrible ruling... |
naaman fletcher |
May-18-10 01:52 AM |
#85 |
| -
I agree and I'm physically ill for having to agree with you on all counts. |
Uncle Joe |
May-18-10 11:38 AM |
#105 |
| -
Did you bother reading the opinion? |
Unvanguard |
May-18-10 04:02 PM |
#135 |
| -
Hmmm, what happens when someone who has finished their sentence |
benEzra |
May-18-10 06:15 AM |
#91 |
| -
Then you run into 8th amendment and dp issues.... |
msanthrope |
May-18-10 01:18 PM |
#118 |
| -
My brother worked at McNiel Island in their special commitment center |
lumberjack_jeff |
May-18-10 10:31 AM |
#98 |
| -
Imagine CNN's outrage if Russia was doing this. |
New Dawn |
May-18-10 09:38 PM |
#146 |
| -
who decides? |
newpub |
May-19-10 09:28 AM |
#151 |
| -
If it isn't already taken, I call dibs... |
Silent3 |
May-19-10 09:44 AM |
#152 |
| -
For people who are for this.. |
JackDragna |
May-19-10 03:40 PM |
#171 |
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