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Reply #101: While some are Human Error [View All]

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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
101. While some are Human Error
Certainly some are Human error. Some of the elderly have been driving into stores etc. for years. It's not just because of Toyota that it's happening. However assuming that years of reports about only certain models is not a result of an as yet discovered bug is a stretch. Obviously Toyota is responding with the current recalls, to at least a statistical anomaly, if not a probability that something is contributing to the phenomena.

I am not in a position to speculate on what Toyota may have already done to try and identify a Root Cause. In my area with Industrial Electronics it can be as much an art-form as science to try and deduce the probable mechanism and subsequently prove it.
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  -Report: Test can't re-create 'runaway' Prius JI7  Mar-15-10 01:17 AM   #0 
  - That test only works on a hardware malfunction  DJ13   Mar-15-10 01:21 AM   #1 
  - Says you nt  Dreamer Tatum   Mar-15-10 01:22 AM   #2 
  - Yeah, says me who isnt worried about protecting a corporation  DJ13   Mar-15-10 01:26 AM   #3 
     - Read it and weep...I guess you drive a car made by a coop?  Dreamer Tatum   Mar-15-10 01:27 AM   #6 
     - You're right, its all a sham  DJ13   Mar-15-10 01:31 AM   #7 
     - Nope, not ALL a sham. Just a lot of it. nt  Dreamer Tatum   Mar-15-10 01:56 AM   #8 
     - The ABC report was pretty well gutted here  ProgressiveProfessor   Mar-15-10 05:22 AM   #21 
     - You don't accept the fact that there will be some scam artists out there?  ProudToBeBlueInRhody   Mar-15-10 04:46 AM   #17 
        - Look up the definition of scam. What does this driver gain from this  harun   Mar-15-10 08:14 AM   #35 
           - He's not going to sue NOW.  ProudToBeBlueInRhody   Mar-15-10 04:59 PM   #121 
     - So you're a fucking mechanic. CHP says they believe the guy...........  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 08:44 AM   #40 
        - The NHTSA says there was not significant brake wear...the CHP does not do this  ProgressiveProfessor   Mar-15-10 12:43 PM   #103 
        - The same CHP...  splatshot   Mar-17-10 10:57 PM   #133 
     - Software will also fail repeatedly if the conditions are reproduced  ProgressiveProfessor   Mar-15-10 05:15 AM   #19 
        - I was a software test engineer for a whil  MARALE   Mar-15-10 08:59 AM   #44 
           - Wouldn't the chances of reproducing a problem increase  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:53 AM   #84 
           - Sometimes the issue with software is  MARALE   Mar-15-10 01:21 PM   #110 
           - That is why software can not use the serial hardware reliability model  ProgressiveProfessor   Mar-15-10 12:41 PM   #102 
           - Give the teach a gold star...  pipoman   Mar-15-10 04:45 PM   #120 
           - My bias is for process rigor not tabloid self righteousness  ProgressiveProfessor   Mar-15-10 07:50 PM   #125 
           - Software can never use a hardware statistical model because the population size is one (1) v. a  jody   Mar-16-10 08:02 AM   #130 
           - software glitches  rickford66   Mar-18-10 08:18 AM   #137 
  - Definitely repeatable.  Mithreal   Mar-15-10 04:32 AM   #15 
  - Pruis Drives Need to Know How Their Car Works  PuppyBismark   Mar-15-10 09:18 AM   #49 
     - I think there should probably be a standard key  pipoman   Mar-15-10 04:27 PM   #118 
        - Don't know about that ...  Nihil   Mar-16-10 07:26 AM   #129 
  - The policeman that stopped the runaway Prius said he could see the brakes  lob1   Mar-15-10 01:27 AM   #4 
  - ill take the cops word for it, but i have seen a car with smoking brakes  vadawg   Mar-15-10 02:24 AM   #9 
  - movies don't count  Mithreal   Mar-15-10 04:26 AM   #13 
     - rofl not talking about movies dude, talking about real life  vadawg   Mar-15-10 04:27 AM   #14 
  - Many years ago  FlaGranny   Mar-15-10 04:39 AM   #16 
  - your chevy's gear selector  awoke_in_2003   Mar-15-10 10:28 AM   #73 
  - I have read that examination of the brakes did not support the driver's statements  ProgressiveProfessor   Mar-15-10 05:16 AM   #20 
     - as i said upthread, i can pretty much make my brakes red hot and burning  vadawg   Mar-15-10 05:33 AM   #22 
        - Actually, the investigation CONFIRMED that the brakes were worn down.  Atman   Mar-15-10 11:06 AM   #87 
           - The brakes were worn down because he was too cheap to put in new pads  d.gibbs   Mar-15-10 04:26 PM   #117 
  - Maybe these events are satelite driven at random, just because they can?  earcandle   Mar-15-10 01:27 AM   #5 
  - An extremely long shot.  splatshot   Mar-17-10 11:08 PM   #134 
     - Mike McConnell's plane went down because someone messed with the computer inside the engine.  earcandle   Mar-18-10 09:59 AM   #138 
  - That exactly what I was saying!!!  CreekDog   Mar-15-10 03:00 AM   #10 
  - BUT lookie here....  Tx4obama   Mar-15-10 03:27 AM   #11 
  - well, SOMETHING's wrong with a lot of these cars . . .  OneBlueSky   Mar-15-10 04:09 AM   #12 
  - There are 117 cars on the  pipoman   Mar-15-10 07:02 AM   #31 
  - TURN THE KEY TO OFF (not lock) and put the vehicle in neutral........  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 08:52 AM   #42 
     - This is the one fault  pipoman   Mar-15-10 09:58 AM   #61 
        - Okay, you got me. I have never driven a Prius or known anyone.........  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 10:13 AM   #66 
           - Again I ask  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:22 AM   #70 
           - Logically, would it benefit Toyota to NOT recall their cars?  enlightenment   Mar-15-10 10:26 AM   #72 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-10 10:46 AM   #80 
           - Lexus has the same issue...push-button start which you can't just "turn off."  Atman   Mar-15-10 10:37 AM   #76 
              - Thank you for the clarity.  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 10:50 AM   #83 
              - I don't disagree with this.  pipoman   Mar-15-10 11:27 AM   #90 
                 - A: You are not an expert. B: You keep failing to acknowledge.........  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 11:38 AM   #91 
                 - Maybe Ford is acknowledging the problem and not lying and stonewalling?  Atman   Mar-15-10 11:47 AM   #92 
                 - God, finally someone that maybe can get through.  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 11:49 AM   #94 
                 - Uh, no, there is no recall that I can find on Lincoln Town car for UA  pipoman   Mar-15-10 12:15 PM   #96 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-10 12:24 PM   #99 
                       - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-10 12:59 PM   #106 
                 - "Most" cars use the drive by wire system nowadays. I am somewhat..........  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 11:47 AM   #93 
  - No...Sikes was/is lying.  splatshot   Mar-17-10 11:15 PM   #135 
  - It would appear that  joshdawg   Mar-15-10 04:56 AM   #18 
  - Typical response from mechanics...  Blue Gardener   Mar-15-10 05:40 AM   #23 
  - "we can't figure out what's wrong unless it happens when we have the car" . . .  OneBlueSky   Mar-15-10 11:06 AM   #86 
  - Driver error  pipoman   Mar-15-10 05:53 AM   #24 
  - That's just dumb.  Atman   Mar-15-10 06:00 AM   #25 
  - No, the belief that Toyota could hide the cause is dumb  pipoman   Mar-15-10 06:05 AM   #26 
  - great point  stuart68   Mar-15-10 06:50 AM   #27 
  - Is that the same woman who sold her  pipoman   Mar-15-10 06:57 AM   #29 
     - Thus is the nature of RANDOM occurrences.  Atman   Mar-15-10 10:39 AM   #77 
        - Thus is the nature of human error too, no?  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:49 AM   #82 
        - Randomness happens  eilen   Mar-15-10 08:06 PM   #126 
  - Two issues: random occurrence, and the fact the burned-out brakes.  Atman   Mar-15-10 08:06 AM   #34 
     - I think the fact that almost every make and model  pipoman   Mar-15-10 08:31 AM   #38 
        - So you know all about the new all-electronic systems in the Prius?  Atman   Mar-15-10 09:41 AM   #53 
        - No, I don't know anything about the Prius  pipoman   Mar-15-10 09:53 AM   #60 
           - The car is virtually ALL electronic! Don't you get that?  Atman   Mar-15-10 10:29 AM   #74 
           - Only the Prius, this is about far more than just the Prius  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:44 AM   #78 
           - Repetition of some anomalies isn't so easy.  Daemonaquila   Mar-15-10 10:48 AM   #81 
              - But the larger issue,  pipoman   Mar-15-10 11:08 AM   #88 
        - Combined that you really do not know what you are talking about...........  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 12:27 PM   #100 
           - You are the one who is a shade tree mechanic  pipoman   Mar-15-10 01:07 PM   #107 
              - Whoo, hoo................. I am fucking impressed. Midas, huh?  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 02:55 PM   #113 
  - Toyota is forced to prove the unprovable  stuart68   Mar-15-10 06:54 AM   #28 
     - Precisely  pipoman   Mar-15-10 06:58 AM   #30 
     - That's precisely why they will absolutely positively fit the "brake over-ride" feature...  Tesha   Mar-15-10 08:58 AM   #43 
     - Wait a minute--Toyota ALREADY annolunced a "fix" for its sudden acceleration problems...  Romulox   Mar-15-10 09:51 AM   #58 
  - You MUST have a lot of stock in Toyota and a certified mechanic too.  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 09:05 AM   #47 
     - I do have a strong automotive background  pipoman   Mar-15-10 09:14 AM   #48 
        - The only driver error is panic. Why panic if "nothing" happened?  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 09:28 AM   #51 
        - I never claimed to be an expert,  pipoman   Mar-15-10 09:42 AM   #54 
           - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-15-10 09:59 AM   #62 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-15-10 09:38 AM   #52 
  - I just went for a joy ride in mine...however, my intention was to just back out the driveway (joke)  deacon   Mar-15-10 07:15 AM   #32 
  - Not Surprised  erpowers   Mar-15-10 07:22 AM   #33 
  - delete  Atman   Mar-15-10 09:48 AM   # 
  - The EMERGENCY BRAKE is just that...an override of the ELECTRONIC brakes in a Prius.  Atman   Mar-15-10 09:48 AM   #56 
  - Years ago a had an suv that would stop dead without warning. It happened a  madmom   Mar-15-10 08:27 AM   #36 
  - Simplistic test, and simplistic expectation.  One_Life_To_Give   Mar-15-10 08:30 AM   #37 
  - But  pipoman   Mar-15-10 08:52 AM   #41 
     - While some are Human Error  One_Life_To_Give   Mar-15-10 12:33 PM   #101 
        - How often does a  pipoman   Mar-15-10 01:21 PM   #109 
  - I Told You A Few Days Ago  DallasNE   Mar-15-10 08:39 AM   #39 
  - Why wouldn't they be in "there" normal positions?  Roland99   Mar-15-10 09:03 AM   #46 
     - Since it's an ELECTRONIC problem, the position of the pedals would have no bearing  Atman   Mar-15-10 09:52 AM   #59 
        - Exactly! I can't tell you how many times I've not been able to reproduce software or hardware errors  Roland99   Mar-15-10 10:14 AM   #67 
        - A Quick Google  DallasNE   Mar-15-10 10:15 AM   #68 
           - I don't believe Toyota's "own words" for a moment.  Atman   Mar-15-10 10:23 AM   #71 
  - This specific instance seems pretty bogus  high density   Mar-15-10 09:02 AM   #45 
  - I can text at a hundred.  Skink   Mar-15-10 09:26 AM   #50 
  - But, can you grab that lit roach between your legs???  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 09:48 AM   #55 
     - do that first am I right ?  Skink   Mar-15-10 10:02 PM   #127 
        - You indeed are a professional, I salute you!  pattmarty   Mar-16-10 08:33 AM   #131 
  - 54 people dead, and they can't recreate ANY of it so far. What does this prove?  Romulox   Mar-15-10 09:50 AM   #57 
  - Uh, no  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:01 AM   #63 
     - OK, but nothing in the OP proves that point, or any other point.  Romulox   Mar-15-10 10:06 AM   #64 
     - They have been ordered to fix a problem  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:11 AM   #65 
        - You're confusing the word "problem" with the word "cause"....  Romulox   Mar-15-10 10:16 AM   #69 
           - Why can nobody  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:36 AM   #75 
              - Wait just a minute--what were those shims about if nobody can discern any problem?  Romulox   Mar-15-10 10:44 AM   #79 
              - They were/are being pressed  pipoman   Mar-15-10 10:57 AM   #85 
                 - So is every tortfeasor--that's not good enough. nt  Romulox   Mar-15-10 11:08 AM   #89 
                 - Why don't you answer the question about the "phony" fix? Has the...........  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 12:18 PM   #97 
              - Well, you're the "expert", why don't you give us some of your...................  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 12:15 PM   #95 
                 - If there is such a syndrome  pipoman   Mar-15-10 01:14 PM   #108 
                    - Look expert, you seem to have the minority opinion here, Toyotaman.  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 02:58 PM   #114 
                       - Therefore I have to be wrong huh?  pipoman   Mar-15-10 03:44 PM   #115 
                          - Well, at least I actually worked on cars and got my hands dirty and......  pattmarty   Mar-15-10 07:25 PM   #123 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-10 07:32 PM   #124 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-10 12:20 PM   #98 
  - I thought there was something hinky about this story from the beginning  DebbieCDC   Mar-15-10 12:45 PM   #104 
  - Recreate it by putting a guy behind the wheel who's in debt and wants to scam a corporation.  Kablooie   Mar-15-10 12:52 PM   #105 
  - The obvious answer. n/t  Psephos   Mar-15-10 11:43 PM   #128 
  - If it's a software bug, software bugs can be notoriously difficult...  Silent3   Mar-15-10 02:19 PM   #111 
  - I can see your point  pipoman   Mar-15-10 04:33 PM   #119 
  - When I first heard of this story  Magleetis   Mar-15-10 02:42 PM   #112 
  - The guy didn't maintain his brakes and let them go bad  d.gibbs   Mar-15-10 04:25 PM   #116 
  - Not sure about this particular incident....  Fastcars   Mar-15-10 05:47 PM   #122 
  - This reminds me of the defect in the 737 rudder system  AngryAmish   Mar-16-10 08:42 AM   #132 
  - I LOVE my Prius- best car ever and I fill it up every 2 weeks or so  SoCalDemGrrl   Mar-18-10 01:29 AM   #136 
 

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