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PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
83. Common misperception I keep seeing...
That these "drones" (actually UAVs, because technically drones are self-directed...) are manned by USAF crews for the most part, and they have to go through a very rigorous targeting process and receive approval and meet several criteria before the trigger is pulled. They don't just go around blasting anything that moves just for the fuck-all fun of it.

If civilian deaths occur, it's usually because:

1. The casualties are mostly fighters but AQ/Taliban, whatever, claims massive civilian casualties for propaganda value
2. The civilians weren't known to be in proximity of the target (ie, the Pred driver checked for civilians and didn't find any, but unfortunately you can't see everywhere)
3. The target was of such a high value or our own troops were in such imminent danger that the risk of civilian casualties is assumed by the US.

I will also state that case #3 is becoming rarer...US troops on the ground used to call for airstrikes and get what they wanted. Nowadays, in many cases troops are asking for air support and it's getting denied for fear of creating more civilian casualties....ie, command and control says "sorry, suck it up because we can't risk killing any civilians. Hope you guys make it out alive".
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  -US drone strikes hit Pakistan StarfarerBill  Jan-06-10 08:42 AM   #0 
  - Interesting, the use of second attacks to kill the responders  HereSince1628   Jan-06-10 08:47 AM   #1 
  - Unconventional = Executions Without Trial = Immoral = USA is ALL-POWERFUL.  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 08:59 AM   #3 
  - Body Counts = "12 opposition fighters" ... what's old is new again.  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 08:55 AM   #2 
  - Same difference...  IthinkThereforeIAM   Jan-06-10 09:21 AM   #4 
  - Since you are eventually going to die can I off you today rather then die later?  Arctic Dave   Jan-06-10 02:40 PM   #8 
  - Bullshit! The Taliban are merely the tribes peoples. The al Quaeda are the people that  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 09:30 PM   #33 
     - A few problems with your interpretation of events  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:14 PM   #42 
        - Well, don't take my word for it ... here's testimony of three CIA officers who  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 02:07 AM   #65 
           - No offense, but I don't tend to waste my time when people post videos instead of articulating  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 05:00 AM   #68 
  - You could volunteer to become an undercover operative in Pakistan  Kolesar   Jan-06-10 09:30 AM   #5 
     - Or we could just stop the Occupation  bahrbearian   Jan-06-10 02:45 PM   #9 
     - +1000000000000000  Mari333   Jan-06-10 04:22 PM   #18 
     - I already served in Military Intelligence. I've become ultra-liberal in my elder years.  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 09:14 PM   #30 
        - & Obama's known all along Karzai can't be trusted, doesn't have much backing in Afghanistn  wordpix   Jan-09-10 09:15 AM   #93 
  - This changes everything! Not! /nt  Bragi   Jan-06-10 10:38 AM   #6 
  - The CIA is going to take out many  Socal31   Jan-06-10 02:40 PM   #7 
  - That ought to win a lot of those hearts and minds eh? nt  bemildred   Jan-06-10 02:47 PM   #10 
  - I dont think hearts and minds is really on the agenda  Socal31   Jan-06-10 03:20 PM   #11 
  - So you figure McChrystal is out of luck then?  bemildred   Jan-06-10 03:25 PM   #12 
     - Which war have you been watching?  Socal31   Jan-06-10 03:36 PM   #13 
     - That is a "yes" then? nt  bemildred   Jan-06-10 03:46 PM   #14 
     - I see no reason, based on this strike, to assume the CIA is going on a rampage  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 04:09 PM   #16 
        - lets put it this way  Capn Sunshine   Jan-06-10 04:27 PM   #19 
           - True.  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 04:36 PM   #21 
  - 12 out of 15 were militants. Not perfect, but when one considers  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 04:08 PM   #15 
     - FAR from perfect if the other three were your INNOCENT blood relatives.  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 09:06 PM   #27 
     - My blood relatives wouldn't be harboring Islamic militants  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 10:58 PM   #39 
     - You have all "the propaganda" down pat. Too bad it's all bullshit! We are TERRORIZING these two  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 11:33 PM   #45 
     - I find your interpretation to be extremely naive  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:55 PM   #48 
        - My mistake.  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:57 PM   #49 
        - I find your narrative above, painfully sophomoric.  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 12:16 AM   #53 
           - I'm sure you do, but the fact that you can't refute my arguments speaks volumes.  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 12:44 AM   #57 
              - I can't counter your arguments which you are trying to suck me into TACTICs because this occupation  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 02:11 AM   #66 
                 - I'm not unaware of the lessons of Vietnam  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 05:02 AM   #69 
                    - "Use specifics." ? What are you, my professor? See post # 77 for specifics of the Soviet Disaster.  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 07:43 AM   #80 
                       - That's what I thought...  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-08-10 04:54 AM   #84 
                          - In fact,  ronnie624   Jan-08-10 11:21 AM   #90 
                             - It's undoubtedly true that we reaped what we've sown  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-08-10 03:32 PM   #91 
     - p.s. with all your seemingly "special knowledge" you need to go enlist tomorrow.  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 11:36 PM   #46 
        - The kicker is, none of this requires "special knowledge"  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:58 PM   #50 
           - My fears are being realized. When all hell breaks loose and they do take someone  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 12:42 AM   #56 
              - Quite frankly  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 12:47 AM   #58 
              - When will we ever learn?  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 01:29 AM   #61 
                 - Countries have to make their own decisions.  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 05:04 AM   #70 
                    - Occupying diverse tribal peoples by an invading modern army can only result in EPIC FAIL.  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 07:02 AM   #78 
                    - Quite frankly  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-08-10 04:55 AM   #85 
                    - "... we can't stay indefinitely to ensure they make the ones we think the wisest."  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 07:07 AM   #79 
                       - And again, we've heard this same thing before too  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-08-10 04:57 AM   #86 
              - +1 well said  wordpix   Jan-09-10 09:20 AM   #95 
     - Honestly....  Socal31   Jan-07-10 01:33 AM   #62 
        - No, the best we can do is NOT occupy sovereign nations that have a diverse population.  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 01:57 AM   #63 
           - Are we "occupying" Pakistan?  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 05:04 AM   #71 
           - Need to pass that thought on to the current President of the  Thothmes   Jan-08-10 06:27 PM   #92 
     - "Some officials have claimed that as many as 12..."  spoony   Jan-07-10 05:58 AM   #74 
  - Many of the UAVs operated in theater are operated by USAF crews  PacerLJ35   Jan-06-10 08:03 PM   #24 
  - And such Drone Executions are keeping AMERICANS safe ==> exactly HOW?  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 09:03 PM   #26 
  - The idea is to create havoc within Taliban or al-Qaeda groups  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:03 PM   #40 
     - "We're able to hit those areas." But not all of them, b/c al Quaeda et. al keep sprouting elsewhere  wordpix   Jan-09-10 09:17 AM   #94 
  - Or within 50 yards of anyone. CIA is not known for their discretion.  EFerrari   Jan-06-10 09:47 PM   #35 
     - Most "drone" strikes aren't CIA  PacerLJ35   Jan-06-10 10:17 PM   #38 
  - It's a little weird to me how regularly you post about drone strikes  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 04:15 PM   #17 
  - I have posted news about bombings; sorry you missed them.  StarfarerBill   Jan-06-10 04:34 PM   #20 
  - Perhaps I have simply missed them, sorry if my accusation was off base.  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 04:39 PM   #22 
     - Apology accepted.  StarfarerBill   Jan-06-10 04:41 PM   #23 
  - It depends on how you DEFINE terrorism? How about the term "shock and awe."  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 09:10 PM   #29 
  - Both sides? There is not Taliban Air Force to prevent these EXECUTIONS.  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 09:24 PM   #32 
     - Should we desire an even field during war?  PacerLJ35   Jan-06-10 10:16 PM   #37 
        - This isn't a fucking WAR. It's an OCCUPATION. We OWN them - it's vile to have complete  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 11:41 PM   #47 
           - It's vile to have air superiority? How so?  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:58 PM   #51 
           - Occupying a nation is not the same as all out WAR. Killing civilians "at will" is no way ...  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 12:20 AM   #54 
              - What do you mean by "killing civilians 'at will'"?  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 12:48 AM   #59 
                 - You're comments and questions are unbelievably shallow.  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 02:17 AM   #67 
                    - When discussing with someone who views the world in such a radical light  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 05:08 AM   #72 
                       - You're amazing in your capacity for obfuscation. Iran is going to be bombed.  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 06:44 AM   #75 
                          - Will Iran be bombed?  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-08-10 05:00 AM   #87 
           - Common misperception I keep seeing...  PacerLJ35   Jan-07-10 04:29 PM   #83 
  - The title didn't say it was one of those suspected drones,....  pinniped   Jan-06-10 08:48 PM   #25 
  - What's the difference between a drone attack and terrorist bomb attack?  Prometheus Bound   Jan-06-10 09:08 PM   #28 
  - They are both State Sponsored Terror attacks. WAR itself is TERROR. These people  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 09:22 PM   #31 
  - Actually, I was referring to the way they are reported.  Prometheus Bound   Jan-06-10 09:37 PM   #34 
     - OK, now understood - sorry for the misunderstanding.  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 11:17 PM   #43 
  - Do we really need to go through this? I mean, I will if you honestly need clarification  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:07 PM   #41 
     - Oh, get real. Legitimate military targets = those who the ruling thug leaders consider "enemies."  ShortnFiery   Jan-06-10 11:23 PM   #44 
        - Please, qualify your assertions with specific examples.  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-06-10 11:59 PM   #52 
           - I will qualify with Military History. Read up on our operations within Vietnam.  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 12:26 AM   #55 
              - What specific comparisons do you feel can be made between the current American occupation  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 12:50 AM   #60 
                 - We. Will. LOSE. You know that, I know that ... but only after the MIC has its second TRILLION  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 02:04 AM   #64 
                    - If I may  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-07-10 05:14 AM   #73 
                       - You're unbelievable, how about the horrific disaster that helped topple the Soviet Union?  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 06:58 AM   #77 
                          - And, again, the fact that you can't articulate the reasons why these instances are comparable  YouTakeTheSkyway   Jan-08-10 05:05 AM   #88 
  - I feel so much better  The abyss   Jan-06-10 10:03 PM   #36 
  - Just so we're clear, you're comparing this to the Holocaust.  Robb   Jan-07-10 06:54 AM   #76 
     - Occupying forces KILLING civilians can never be compared to such?  ShortnFiery   Jan-07-10 07:52 AM   #81 
        - And the Battle of Lake Tanganyika!  Robb   Jan-07-10 07:57 AM   #82 
  - KO last night  newspeak   Jan-08-10 10:24 AM   #89 
 

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