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Reply #66: Human rights are human rights [View All]

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 06:41 PM
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66. Human rights are human rights
The idea that rights are provisional on citizenship is troubling. It seems to me that it undermines theories of human rights as being inviolable.

Contract theories of rights imply that rights really belong to the person as a natural consequence of humanity, and that people can contract together via government to sustain and enhance the enjoyment of those natural rights, sometimes agreeing to curtail the enjoyment of some individual rights for the good of all.

Making rights provisional on citizenship of a particular nation seems to imply that rights are conferred by a nation's government rather than being a natural fact of human status. Something that a government can grant is something that a government can take away, from foreigners and citizens.

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  -Tom Ridge: Terror suspect doesn't deserve 'full range' of rights NeoConsSuck  Dec-29-09 04:43 AM   #0 
  - Oh, we know what someone who worked for Bush thinks he deserves.  Solly Mack   Dec-29-09 04:53 AM   #1 
  - Ridge is irritated he can't waterboard him. Not that this Administration would prosecute him  Bluebear   Dec-29-09 04:59 AM   #2 
  - If U.S. citizens want due process according to the laws of other  Goldstein1984   Dec-29-09 05:06 AM   #3 
  - Ridge, you shill. STFU. No killer DESERVES the protections of the Constitution, even if he or she  No Elephants   Dec-29-09 05:11 AM   #4 
  - Your 15 Minutes Are Over, Mr. Ridge. All That's Left Is Your Trial  Demeter   Dec-29-09 05:49 AM   #5 
  - Trial time  RayStar   Dec-29-09 07:27 AM   #16 
  - They didn't mind trying Richard Reid in federal court here, did they?  jaxx   Dec-29-09 05:51 AM   #6 
  - Tom Ridge needs a refresher course in Democracy & the US Constitution. n/t  FSogol   Dec-29-09 06:02 AM   #7 
  - He needs to be introduced to them first. n/t  Moosepoop   Dec-29-09 06:29 AM   #8 
  - Technically he is right...  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 06:33 AM   #9 
  - "Technically" according to whom?  DefenseLawyer   Dec-29-09 07:23 AM   #15 
  - Try FDR. nt  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 08:14 AM   #23 
     - FDR has nothing to say about it. FDR did not make law. nt  bowens43   Dec-29-09 08:37 AM   #30 
     - Tell that to the Japanese-Americans kept in internment camps...  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 08:40 AM   #32 
     - I'm sorry for my imprecise response  DefenseLawyer   Dec-30-09 12:26 PM   #67 
     - Right wing Tourette's. Throw out a bad analogy involving a Democrat,  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 03:39 AM   #70 
  - You are absolutely wrong.  bowens43   Dec-29-09 08:37 AM   #29 
  - Once again...  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 08:38 AM   #31 
  - And you want to keep doing that?  Bette Noir   Dec-29-09 09:49 AM   #46 
  - I was simply refuting post 15...  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 09:58 AM   #50 
     - You refuted nothing. To refute post 15, you would have had to cite a SCOTUS case contradicting  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 03:47 AM   #71 
  - And because wrong was done during a period of hysteria, wrong is right now?  1monster   Dec-29-09 10:22 AM   #53 
  - The internment was one of many issues...  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 10:38 AM   #56 
     - Yes, one of many issues that has nothing to do with this thread and refutes nothing.  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 03:56 AM   #72 
  - And it was wrong then too.  verges   Dec-29-09 10:44 AM   #57 
  - That is how I see it too.  Qutzupalotl   Dec-31-09 01:52 PM   #74 
  - i agree with you, but you seem to be the lone voice of  CynicalObserver   Dec-29-09 01:38 PM   #60 
  - You've outed yourself--and so soon, too.  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 04:07 AM   #73 
  - Should members of the Bin Laden family been interrogated more before being flown out of the country  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 03:35 AM   #69 
  - This issue of Constitutional rights...  Lost Jaguar   Dec-29-09 07:02 AM   #10 
  - A missionary sneaking into North Korea  JustABozoOnThisBus   Dec-29-09 07:11 AM   #12 
  - I realize...  Lost Jaguar   Dec-29-09 07:44 AM   #19 
  - ?  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 08:19 AM   #24 
     - My primary concern would be the rights...  Lost Jaguar   Dec-29-09 09:45 AM   #45 
  - War can only be declared by Congress. There is no war,  Bette Noir   Dec-29-09 09:52 AM   #47 
  - Are we at war with NIgeria? He should have whatever rights our laws say he should have.  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 06:50 PM   #79 
  - One idea  christx30   Dec-29-09 07:51 AM   #21 
  - What if they were aristocrats  CJCRANE   Dec-29-09 09:19 AM   #43 
  - Some international copyright conventions say something like that, regarding how much  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 06:26 PM   #77 
  - I agree, though the SCOTUS has decided they don't apply to aliens  treestar   Dec-29-09 09:59 AM   #51 
  - Exactly right. The government does not grant rights. The government  mbperrin   Dec-29-09 10:30 AM   #55 
  - If the laws of a monk's country permit hanging the monk without a trial,  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 06:47 PM   #78 
  - Just what DOES the Constitution say regarding how we  ScottLand   Dec-29-09 07:03 AM   #11 
  - The Constitution says, "Tom Ridge has his head up his butt, as usual."  Jim Lane   Dec-31-09 03:02 AM   #68 
  - I owe Tom Ridge a lot.  tomg   Dec-29-09 07:16 AM   #13 
  - Funny, I feel the same way about...  Frisbee   Dec-29-09 07:22 AM   #14 
  - He should have decent rights and a decent trial just like everyone else, and then  lazer47   Dec-29-09 07:33 AM   #17 
  - We don't need no stinkin' rights. Set up the gallows.  Vinca   Dec-29-09 07:33 AM   #18 
  - He's not a terror suspect  earthlite   Dec-29-09 07:49 AM   #20 
  - Would you say the same thing if the bomb had worked?  lazer47   Dec-29-09 08:00 AM   #22 
     - Yes I would.  earthlite   Dec-29-09 08:30 AM   #25 
        - Wow.  Robb   Dec-29-09 08:32 AM   #26 
        - So are you saying  earthlite   Dec-29-09 08:49 AM   #34 
           - Purposely targeting civilians?  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 08:51 AM   #36 
              - When we target civilians we can only expect they will do the same  earthlite   Dec-29-09 09:10 AM   #39 
                 - Please link to the US targeting civilians in the last 2 decades. nt  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 09:11 AM   #40 
        - Which illegal war?  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 08:33 AM   #27 
        - Depends what time frame you want to use.  earthlite   Dec-29-09 08:47 AM   #33 
           - Support of Israel? Ah, I see....  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 08:51 AM   #35 
              - Please don't ever break the mementum of my contempt again.  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 07:02 PM   #81 
        - Doesn't matter if it is Illegal now or not,, I for one am not going  lazer47   Dec-29-09 08:54 AM   #37 
           - And here I thought this thread was only about whether "the Nigerian guy" had a right  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 06:55 PM   #80 
  - It doesn't matter if THEY deserve the full range of rights.  Ian David   Dec-29-09 08:36 AM   #28 
  - Fuck you, Tom. You did more harm to this nation than anyone else.  Xenotime   Dec-29-09 09:06 AM   #38 
  - More thtan Dummya, Rummy, Condi, Cheney and Powell?  No Elephants   Dec-31-09 07:31 PM   #82 
  - Big Sis is in charge now, so STFU!  marshall   Dec-29-09 09:17 AM   #41 
  - "Country First" republicans - halt any effort to help US people, scrap the Constitution.  old mark   Dec-29-09 09:18 AM   #42 
  - Oh screw you Ridge, his line is all about saving the Bush legacy.  Jefferson23   Dec-29-09 09:30 AM   #44 
  - This buffoon?  Lars39   Dec-29-09 09:56 AM   #48 
  - What will be the difficulty of convicting him?  treestar   Dec-29-09 09:58 AM   #49 
  - The issue is never about conviction...  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 10:01 AM   #52 
     - Seems like he already blabbed  CJCRANE   Dec-29-09 10:46 AM   #58 
        - I have no clue...  WriteDown   Dec-29-09 10:48 AM   #59 
  - Jeez oh Pete. Happy karma, Tom. Classism at its finest. The laws represent *us,* Tom.  Metta   Dec-29-09 10:23 AM   #54 
  - Either rights are inalienable or they are not  Politicub   Dec-29-09 01:53 PM   #61 
  - can the BND pleeeease nab this guy and try him at Nuremburg? nt  MisterP   Dec-29-09 02:00 PM   #62 
  - typical Neocon, taking advantage of people's fear & rage......why not throw  KakistocracyHater   Dec-29-09 05:59 PM   #63 
  - Another war criminal chimes in.  EFerrari   Dec-29-09 06:25 PM   #64 
  - then neither does anyone else "deserve 'full range' of rights"  fascisthunter   Dec-29-09 06:29 PM   #65 
  - Human rights are human rights  daleo   Dec-29-09 06:41 PM   #66 
  - Tom Ridge needs a free plane ride to the Hague  ProudDad   Dec-31-09 06:17 PM   #75 
  - Tom Ridge = Neocon war criminal.  New Dawn   Dec-31-09 06:25 PM   #76 

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