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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
139. Won't work
Defamation of character requires affirmative proof. How can you prove you aren't 'spoiled' or a 'brat'? Or even perhaps, a 'slut'? All of these are in the eye of the beholder, if I think you're a brat, how can you prove you aren't? They didn't accuse her of doing something she didn't, only of being something.
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  -Judge backs students First Amendment rights Freddie Stubbs  Dec-14-09 09:12 AM   #0 
  - civil lawsuit for defamation of character with $millions in damages requested....  msongs   Dec-14-09 09:24 AM   #1 
  - +1  liberal N proud   Dec-14-09 10:46 AM   #9 
  - +1!  northernlights   Dec-14-09 11:49 AM   #20 
  - +1 n/t  ejbr   Dec-14-09 12:34 PM   #29 
  - Nothing in this ruling would prohibit a civil lawsuit  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-14-09 01:34 PM   #34 
  - I'm not as sure about that as you seem to be.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 02:34 AM   #114 
  - +1  Luciferous   Dec-14-09 09:18 PM   #91 
  - Absolutely  struggle4progress   Dec-16-09 02:28 AM   #113 
  - Won't work  northzax   Dec-16-09 09:42 AM   #139 
  - The ability to have your life ruined by your peers online is new.  mwb970   Dec-14-09 09:29 AM   #2 
  - Current law is adequate.  Viking12   Dec-14-09 09:35 AM   #3 
  - The school didn't adjudicate the case  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 02:56 PM   #48 
     - Really, so punishing someone for what they said is not interference with free speech?  Viking12   Dec-14-09 03:14 PM   #56 
        - You still have the right to free speech  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 03:37 PM   #62 
        - My boss is not a representative of the govt.  Viking12   Dec-14-09 04:10 PM   #68 
           - So you can walk in to a classroom  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 08:42 PM   #82 
           - Keep reaching.  Viking12   Dec-14-09 08:46 PM   #85 
              - So explain why I'm wrong  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 08:20 AM   #92 
                 - That is not the question at hand.  Viking12   Dec-15-09 10:41 AM   #95 
                    - I agree ...  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 12:10 PM   #97 
                       - Dude, you should get some therapy.  Viking12   Dec-15-09 12:14 PM   #98 
                          - Therapy  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 12:18 PM   #100 
                             - Sorry, it's impossible to have a reasoned conversation w/ an irrational person  Viking12   Dec-15-09 12:25 PM   #102 
                                - What irrationality?  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 01:21 PM   #107 
                                - You are attacking the person, not the argument. This is a logical fallacy. nt  ZombieHorde   Dec-16-09 10:04 AM   #141 
           - It's also not analogous bc you are an adult and your boss is not responsible  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 02:42 AM   #117 
        - Schools do that all the time. So do parents. Schools are in loco parentis.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 02:37 AM   #116 
  - Speech is speech, whether it is online or in the school paper or in the corridors.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 02:36 AM   #115 
  - Just teach kids not to believe everything that is online  treestar   Dec-17-09 07:36 AM   #144 
  - It never used to require the internet to be humiliated at school  rox63   Dec-14-09 09:48 AM   #4 
  - I agree that the school shouldn't punish this,  pipoman   Dec-14-09 09:57 AM   #5 
  - Clearly outside of the schools purview  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 11:00 AM   #11 
     - Were you ever in a school?  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 02:58 PM   #49 
        - I went to school.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 03:06 PM   #53 
        - That's a very narrow view of bullying  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 03:12 PM   #54 
        - Oh, it's all bullying.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 03:20 PM   #57 
           - It's not about supervision.  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 03:35 PM   #60 
        - The SCOTUS has, thank goodness, been more nuanced re: schools  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 02:56 AM   #119 
        - I have attend, had daughters who attend, and my wife and I taught in secondary schools  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 03:50 PM   #64 
        - So what do you do?  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 06:41 PM   #69 
        - Schools can not effective police off campus behavior  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 07:52 PM   #77 
           - Is it bad law?  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 08:51 PM   #87 
              - As long as its not punative, it fair game for discussion  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 09:10 PM   #89 
                 - Your experience differs from mine  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 12:17 PM   #99 
                    - Indeed ours does. It may depend on time frame of the experience  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-15-09 12:57 PM   #104 
                       - I've seen those videos  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 01:38 PM   #109 
                          - Our disagreement is whether or not the schools can punish behavior off campus  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-15-09 01:47 PM   #110 
                             - So where I'm from  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 02:25 PM   #111 
        - So the best advice to the girl who got bullied is to post YouTube videos  mbperrin   Dec-14-09 08:11 PM   #79 
           - Nobody quite gets sarcasm anymore  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 08:43 PM   #84 
              - I actually was replying to post 64, the ProgressiveProfessor.  mbperrin   Dec-14-09 08:48 PM   #86 
        - Not only drive her out of school. Potentially drive her to suicide.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 02:48 AM   #118 
  - Not unique to kids. I've personally known supposedly grown adults who did/do this  NYC Liberal   Dec-14-09 10:01 AM   #6 
  - Agreed. Libel and slander isn't protected under the first amendment  Lorien   Dec-14-09 10:24 AM   #7 
  - But it is not the job of the scool to enforce those laws  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 11:01 AM   #12 
  - The school's right is to keep the classroom peaceful.  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 02:59 PM   #50 
  - Their rights stop at the gate  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 03:53 PM   #65 
     - So then it would be okay ...  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 08:21 AM   #93 
  - Schools enforce all kinds of rules.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 03:12 AM   #122 
  - The school was right to punish the bully.  AlbertCat   Dec-14-09 11:37 AM   #16 
  - Subjective slurs are protected by the 1st amendment.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 12:02 PM   #24 
     - Spoiled and brat may be subjective  zalinda   Dec-14-09 12:19 PM   #26 
     - Nope, sorry, still subjective.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 12:20 PM   #27 
        - Are you a judge? Calling a girl a slut can incite rape  Tumbulu   Dec-14-09 02:42 PM   #43 
        - In the same way calling her a spoiled brat incites execution by guillotine.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 02:47 PM   #44 
           - Not really. Thinking it is okay to help yourself to sex with a "slut" is a much more  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:44 AM   #135 
        - "Protected" is very debatable. You are entitled to your opinion about whether  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 03:10 AM   #121 
     - No, calling a female a slut is libelous (though truth is an absolute defense to a libel suit).  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 03:24 AM   #123 
  - I don't know, I think I would have preferred to be "cyber-bullied"..  mrbarber   Dec-14-09 02:52 PM   #45 
  - Well, emotional harassment is just as harmful as physical  NYC Liberal   Dec-14-09 07:05 PM   #73 
     - If its on campus, it can be dealt with, off campus is off limits to the school  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 08:19 PM   #81 
        - In your opinion. Even this judge did not say that. He said only that the  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 03:26 AM   #124 
  - A student harassing another student is very different from an adult harassing another adult.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 03:06 AM   #120 
     - I'm talking about an adult (in their early 20s) harassing  NYC Liberal   Dec-16-09 04:30 AM   #132 
        - Age is not the only issue. It's the school context as well. First Amendment law  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:56 AM   #137 
           - I was making a general statement about online harassment  NYC Liberal   Dec-16-09 06:29 AM   #138 
  - Bad decision....  Hepburn   Dec-14-09 10:40 AM   #8 
  - Right decision. Schools are not courts. No requirement for due process  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 11:01 AM   #13 
     - Schools are not courts  AlbertCat   Dec-14-09 11:42 AM   #17 
        - Precisely. n/t  EFerrari   Dec-14-09 11:45 AM   #18 
        - Well said. I simply don't allow bullying in my classroom or anywhere  mbperrin   Dec-14-09 11:51 AM   #21 
        - "It's like free therapy, really."  proteus_lives   Dec-17-09 12:16 AM   #143 
        - That's the same argument the fundies use to support prayer in school.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 12:21 PM   #28 
        - Excellent point... n/t  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 01:36 PM   #36 
        - They are still government organizations, and need to abide by government standards  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 01:26 PM   #30 
           - i agree  jtylerpittman   Dec-14-09 03:37 PM   #61 
           - Both schools and other organizations make legal judgments daily Yes, folks who feel  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 03:50 AM   #125 
  - Hard to say where I stand on this.  Stumbler   Dec-14-09 10:51 AM   #10 
  - And this is where free speech advocates fail.  onehandle   Dec-14-09 11:16 AM   #14 
  - You have missed the key point...schools are already using the same rules to suppress legitimate  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 01:34 PM   #33 
  - Good decision. People, including kids, do have the right to be nasty in cyberspace...  GodlessBiker   Dec-14-09 11:31 AM   #15 
  - Anger should be directed to the parents of the girl who posted the video.  AlbertCat   Dec-14-09 11:48 AM   #19 
  - In this case the bully is a victim of fascist long arm tactics.  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 01:32 PM   #32 
     - Que?  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 02:55 PM   #47 
        - No, the student was suspended for actions done out of school and beyond their purview  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 03:55 PM   #66 
           - What else the rules are used for ...  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 06:52 PM   #72 
           - They are too relevant...and the courts think so too  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 08:00 PM   #78 
           - No. Courts have made those kinds of distinctions. Purely political statements  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 03:57 AM   #126 
  - And they have the right to suffer the consequences  EFerrari   Dec-14-09 12:00 PM   #23 
     - Its not always anti social behavior  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 01:30 PM   #31 
        - You are confusing dissent, which I support, with this instance of bullying  EFerrari   Dec-14-09 01:56 PM   #38 
           - The rules that allow them to go after online bullies allow them to supress dissent  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 02:13 PM   #40 
              - I agree that they will go after dissent far more than bullies.  EFerrari   Dec-14-09 02:18 PM   #41 
                 - I agree in confronting it, but the principal's office is not the place to impose  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 02:27 PM   #42 
  - Excellent.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 11:58 AM   #22 
  - The fact the girls attended school together does not make this 'school conduct' subject to sanction  Blackhatjack   Dec-14-09 12:17 PM   #25 
  - +1  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 01:35 PM   #35 
  - Schools ability to beat students was once unlimited, too. We hope to learn by  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:03 AM   #127 
  - So this other guy didn't have a first amendment right to be nasty with politicians  AlphaCentauri   Dec-14-09 01:38 PM   #37 
  - He's got the first amendment right to be nasty.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 02:08 PM   #39 
  - Horrible Decision, Incorrect Headline  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 02:53 PM   #46 
  - "the school can suspend you."  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 03:03 PM   #52 
     - I'm arguing that the court is wrong  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 03:13 PM   #55 
     - Yes, but you're doing a horrible jobh.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Dec-14-09 03:21 PM   #58 
     - What would you say if the Youtube posting could not be traced?  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 03:59 PM   #67 
        - I supposed I'd advise the girl to ...  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 06:50 PM   #71 
           - So bullying by one party justifies bullying by another? Surely we as adults can do better than that  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 08:17 PM   #80 
              - "Facetious"  knightmaar   Dec-14-09 08:43 PM   #83 
                 - Got it. When we had a daughter embroiled in such activity, some of the comments  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-14-09 08:58 PM   #88 
                    - That's the problem with the system  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 08:42 AM   #94 
                       - The fifth grade  christx30   Dec-15-09 12:49 PM   #103 
                       - Ah, yes, Was "Don't sink to their level" in there?  knightmaar   Dec-15-09 01:06 PM   #106 
                          - IMO< the notion that bullies cave quickly is an urban legend. Ditto that bullies  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:08 AM   #129 
                          - A week of suspension? HA!  christx30   Dec-16-09 11:45 PM   #142 
                       - The is the standard approach in public schools  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-15-09 01:26 PM   #108 
     - The Constitution never says schools have no right to suspend students.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:05 AM   #128 
  - The court's decision is correct IMO. However,  Xicano   Dec-14-09 03:03 PM   #51 
  - Protected speech is protected speech. IF (and I emphasize IF) this  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:33 AM   #133 
  - the school can not regulate what students do on their own time and off school grounds  jtylerpittman   Dec-14-09 03:35 PM   #59 
  - I don't think that is a correct statement of the law or of the case described in the OP article.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:34 AM   #134 
  - A recent suit about students, schools, and cyberspace  tonysam   Dec-14-09 03:48 PM   #63 
  - The first amendment was never intended for this sort of modern  JonQ   Dec-14-09 06:48 PM   #70 
  - The First Amendment was never intended for radio, TV, vinyl recordings, CD's,  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:52 AM   #136 
  - I think that the parents of the  pipoman   Dec-14-09 07:20 PM   #74 
  - Seriously  JonQ   Dec-14-09 07:34 PM   #75 
  - Dupe  JonQ   Dec-14-09 07:34 PM   #76 
  - The Apple Doesn't Fall Far From the Tree  NashVegas   Dec-15-09 11:02 AM   #96 
     - Actually, it's all actionable libel per se, whether you lie about a business or lie about a girl's  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:11 AM   #130 
  - Excellent! n/t  X_Digger   Dec-14-09 09:11 PM   #90 
  - Cyber bulling needs to be a crime in itself that comes with an immediate fine or jail time if it's  superconnected   Dec-15-09 12:19 PM   #101 
  - Its a civil matter and would take years to get in front of a judge nt  ProgressiveProfessor   Dec-15-09 12:59 PM   #105 
     - I think it would move quicker,  pipoman   Dec-15-09 10:55 PM   #112 
  - The judge's opinion is much narrower than the posts on this thread suggest.  No Elephants   Dec-16-09 04:21 AM   #131 
  - See my post above about a somewhat similar case  tonysam   Dec-16-09 09:52 AM   #140 
  - Good! So stupid bullies have no right to shame people.  krabigirl   Dec-17-09 11:23 AM   #145 

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