ProgressiveProfessor
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Mon Dec-14-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
| 66. No, the student was suspended for actions done out of school and beyond their purview |
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using the same rules that allow schools to suppress online and offline dissent.
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| -Judge backs student’s First Amendment rights |
Freddie Stubbs |
Dec-14-09 09:12 AM |
#0 |
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civil lawsuit for defamation of character with $millions in damages requested.... |
msongs |
Dec-14-09 09:24 AM |
#1 |
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+1 |
liberal N proud |
Dec-14-09 10:46 AM |
#9 |
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+1! |
northernlights |
Dec-14-09 11:49 AM |
#20 |
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+1 n/t |
ejbr |
Dec-14-09 12:34 PM |
#29 |
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Nothing in this ruling would prohibit a civil lawsuit |
Freddie Stubbs |
Dec-14-09 01:34 PM |
#34 |
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I'm not as sure about that as you seem to be. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 02:34 AM |
#114 |
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+1 |
Luciferous |
Dec-14-09 09:18 PM |
#91 |
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Absolutely |
struggle4progress |
Dec-16-09 02:28 AM |
#113 |
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Won't work |
northzax |
Dec-16-09 09:42 AM |
#139 |
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The ability to have your life ruined by your peers online is new. |
mwb970 |
Dec-14-09 09:29 AM |
#2 |
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Current law is adequate. |
Viking12 |
Dec-14-09 09:35 AM |
#3 |
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The school didn't adjudicate the case |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 02:56 PM |
#48 |
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Really, so punishing someone for what they said is not interference with free speech? |
Viking12 |
Dec-14-09 03:14 PM |
#56 |
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You still have the right to free speech |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 03:37 PM |
#62 |
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My boss is not a representative of the govt. |
Viking12 |
Dec-14-09 04:10 PM |
#68 |
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So you can walk in to a classroom |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 08:42 PM |
#82 |
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Keep reaching. |
Viking12 |
Dec-14-09 08:46 PM |
#85 |
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So explain why I'm wrong |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 08:20 AM |
#92 |
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That is not the question at hand. |
Viking12 |
Dec-15-09 10:41 AM |
#95 |
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I agree ... |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 12:10 PM |
#97 |
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Dude, you should get some therapy. |
Viking12 |
Dec-15-09 12:14 PM |
#98 |
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Therapy |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 12:18 PM |
#100 |
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Sorry, it's impossible to have a reasoned conversation w/ an irrational person |
Viking12 |
Dec-15-09 12:25 PM |
#102 |
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What irrationality? |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 01:21 PM |
#107 |
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You are attacking the person, not the argument. This is a logical fallacy. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Dec-16-09 10:04 AM |
#141 |
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It's also not analogous bc you are an adult and your boss is not responsible |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 02:42 AM |
#117 |
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Schools do that all the time. So do parents. Schools are in loco parentis. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 02:37 AM |
#116 |
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Speech is speech, whether it is online or in the school paper or in the corridors. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 02:36 AM |
#115 |
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Just teach kids not to believe everything that is online |
treestar |
Dec-17-09 07:36 AM |
#144 |
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It never used to require the internet to be humiliated at school |
rox63 |
Dec-14-09 09:48 AM |
#4 |
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I agree that the school shouldn't punish this, |
pipoman |
Dec-14-09 09:57 AM |
#5 |
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Clearly outside of the schools purview |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 11:00 AM |
#11 |
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Were you ever in a school? |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 02:58 PM |
#49 |
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I went to school. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 03:06 PM |
#53 |
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That's a very narrow view of bullying |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 03:12 PM |
#54 |
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Oh, it's all bullying. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 03:20 PM |
#57 |
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It's not about supervision. |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 03:35 PM |
#60 |
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The SCOTUS has, thank goodness, been more nuanced re: schools |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 02:56 AM |
#119 |
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I have attend, had daughters who attend, and my wife and I taught in secondary schools |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 03:50 PM |
#64 |
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So what do you do? |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 06:41 PM |
#69 |
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Schools can not effective police off campus behavior |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 07:52 PM |
#77 |
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Is it bad law? |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 08:51 PM |
#87 |
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As long as its not punative, it fair game for discussion |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 09:10 PM |
#89 |
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Your experience differs from mine |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 12:17 PM |
#99 |
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Indeed ours does. It may depend on time frame of the experience |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-15-09 12:57 PM |
#104 |
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I've seen those videos |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 01:38 PM |
#109 |
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Our disagreement is whether or not the schools can punish behavior off campus |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-15-09 01:47 PM |
#110 |
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So where I'm from |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 02:25 PM |
#111 |
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So the best advice to the girl who got bullied is to post YouTube videos |
mbperrin |
Dec-14-09 08:11 PM |
#79 |
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Nobody quite gets sarcasm anymore |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 08:43 PM |
#84 |
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I actually was replying to post 64, the ProgressiveProfessor. |
mbperrin |
Dec-14-09 08:48 PM |
#86 |
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Not only drive her out of school. Potentially drive her to suicide. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 02:48 AM |
#118 |
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Not unique to kids. I've personally known supposedly grown adults who did/do this |
NYC Liberal |
Dec-14-09 10:01 AM |
#6 |
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Agreed. Libel and slander isn't protected under the first amendment |
Lorien |
Dec-14-09 10:24 AM |
#7 |
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But it is not the job of the scool to enforce those laws |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 11:01 AM |
#12 |
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The school's right is to keep the classroom peaceful. |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 02:59 PM |
#50 |
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Their rights stop at the gate |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 03:53 PM |
#65 |
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So then it would be okay ... |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 08:21 AM |
#93 |
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Schools enforce all kinds of rules. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 03:12 AM |
#122 |
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The school was right to punish the bully. |
AlbertCat |
Dec-14-09 11:37 AM |
#16 |
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Subjective slurs are protected by the 1st amendment. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 12:02 PM |
#24 |
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Spoiled and brat may be subjective |
zalinda |
Dec-14-09 12:19 PM |
#26 |
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Nope, sorry, still subjective. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 12:20 PM |
#27 |
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Are you a judge? Calling a girl a slut can incite rape |
Tumbulu |
Dec-14-09 02:42 PM |
#43 |
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In the same way calling her a spoiled brat incites execution by guillotine. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 02:47 PM |
#44 |
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Not really. Thinking it is okay to help yourself to sex with a "slut" is a much more |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:44 AM |
#135 |
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"Protected" is very debatable. You are entitled to your opinion about whether |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 03:10 AM |
#121 |
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No, calling a female a slut is libelous (though truth is an absolute defense to a libel suit). |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 03:24 AM |
#123 |
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I don't know, I think I would have preferred to be "cyber-bullied".. |
mrbarber |
Dec-14-09 02:52 PM |
#45 |
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Well, emotional harassment is just as harmful as physical |
NYC Liberal |
Dec-14-09 07:05 PM |
#73 |
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If its on campus, it can be dealt with, off campus is off limits to the school |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 08:19 PM |
#81 |
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In your opinion. Even this judge did not say that. He said only that the |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 03:26 AM |
#124 |
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A student harassing another student is very different from an adult harassing another adult. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 03:06 AM |
#120 |
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I'm talking about an adult (in their early 20s) harassing |
NYC Liberal |
Dec-16-09 04:30 AM |
#132 |
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Age is not the only issue. It's the school context as well. First Amendment law |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:56 AM |
#137 |
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I was making a general statement about online harassment |
NYC Liberal |
Dec-16-09 06:29 AM |
#138 |
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Bad decision.... |
Hepburn |
Dec-14-09 10:40 AM |
#8 |
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Right decision. Schools are not courts. No requirement for due process |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 11:01 AM |
#13 |
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Schools are not courts |
AlbertCat |
Dec-14-09 11:42 AM |
#17 |
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Precisely. n/t |
EFerrari |
Dec-14-09 11:45 AM |
#18 |
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Well said. I simply don't allow bullying in my classroom or anywhere |
mbperrin |
Dec-14-09 11:51 AM |
#21 |
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"It's like free therapy, really." |
proteus_lives |
Dec-17-09 12:16 AM |
#143 |
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That's the same argument the fundies use to support prayer in school. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 12:21 PM |
#28 |
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Excellent point... n/t |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 01:36 PM |
#36 |
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They are still government organizations, and need to abide by government standards |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 01:26 PM |
#30 |
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i agree |
jtylerpittman |
Dec-14-09 03:37 PM |
#61 |
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Both schools and other organizations make legal judgments daily Yes, folks who feel |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 03:50 AM |
#125 |
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Hard to say where I stand on this. |
Stumbler |
Dec-14-09 10:51 AM |
#10 |
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And this is where free speech advocates fail. |
onehandle |
Dec-14-09 11:16 AM |
#14 |
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You have missed the key point...schools are already using the same rules to suppress legitimate |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 01:34 PM |
#33 |
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Good decision. People, including kids, do have the right to be nasty in cyberspace... |
GodlessBiker |
Dec-14-09 11:31 AM |
#15 |
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Anger should be directed to the parents of the girl who posted the video. |
AlbertCat |
Dec-14-09 11:48 AM |
#19 |
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In this case the bully is a victim of fascist long arm tactics. |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 01:32 PM |
#32 |
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Que? |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 02:55 PM |
#47 |
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No, the student was suspended for actions done out of school and beyond their purview |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 03:55 PM |
#66 |
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What else the rules are used for ... |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 06:52 PM |
#72 |
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They are too relevant...and the courts think so too |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 08:00 PM |
#78 |
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No. Courts have made those kinds of distinctions. Purely political statements |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 03:57 AM |
#126 |
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And they have the right to suffer the consequences |
EFerrari |
Dec-14-09 12:00 PM |
#23 |
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Its not always anti social behavior |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 01:30 PM |
#31 |
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You are confusing dissent, which I support, with this instance of bullying |
EFerrari |
Dec-14-09 01:56 PM |
#38 |
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The rules that allow them to go after online bullies allow them to supress dissent |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 02:13 PM |
#40 |
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I agree that they will go after dissent far more than bullies. |
EFerrari |
Dec-14-09 02:18 PM |
#41 |
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I agree in confronting it, but the principal's office is not the place to impose |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 02:27 PM |
#42 |
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Excellent. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 11:58 AM |
#22 |
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The fact the girls attended school together does not make this 'school conduct' subject to sanction |
Blackhatjack |
Dec-14-09 12:17 PM |
#25 |
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+1 |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 01:35 PM |
#35 |
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Schools ability to beat students was once unlimited, too. We hope to learn by |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:03 AM |
#127 |
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So this other guy didn't have a first amendment right to be nasty with politicians |
AlphaCentauri |
Dec-14-09 01:38 PM |
#37 |
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He's got the first amendment right to be nasty. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 02:08 PM |
#39 |
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Horrible Decision, Incorrect Headline |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 02:53 PM |
#46 |
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"the school can suspend you." |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 03:03 PM |
#52 |
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I'm arguing that the court is wrong |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 03:13 PM |
#55 |
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Yes, but you're doing a horrible jobh. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Dec-14-09 03:21 PM |
#58 |
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What would you say if the Youtube posting could not be traced? |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 03:59 PM |
#67 |
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I supposed I'd advise the girl to ... |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 06:50 PM |
#71 |
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So bullying by one party justifies bullying by another? Surely we as adults can do better than that |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 08:17 PM |
#80 |
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"Facetious" |
knightmaar |
Dec-14-09 08:43 PM |
#83 |
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Got it. When we had a daughter embroiled in such activity, some of the comments |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-14-09 08:58 PM |
#88 |
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That's the problem with the system |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 08:42 AM |
#94 |
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The fifth grade |
christx30 |
Dec-15-09 12:49 PM |
#103 |
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Ah, yes, Was "Don't sink to their level" in there? |
knightmaar |
Dec-15-09 01:06 PM |
#106 |
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IMO< the notion that bullies cave quickly is an urban legend. Ditto that bullies |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:08 AM |
#129 |
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A week of suspension? HA! |
christx30 |
Dec-16-09 11:45 PM |
#142 |
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The is the standard approach in public schools |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-15-09 01:26 PM |
#108 |
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The Constitution never says schools have no right to suspend students. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:05 AM |
#128 |
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The court's decision is correct IMO. However, |
Xicano |
Dec-14-09 03:03 PM |
#51 |
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Protected speech is protected speech. IF (and I emphasize IF) this |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:33 AM |
#133 |
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the school can not regulate what students do on their own time and off school grounds |
jtylerpittman |
Dec-14-09 03:35 PM |
#59 |
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I don't think that is a correct statement of the law or of the case described in the OP article. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:34 AM |
#134 |
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A recent suit about students, schools, and cyberspace |
tonysam |
Dec-14-09 03:48 PM |
#63 |
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The first amendment was never intended for this sort of modern |
JonQ |
Dec-14-09 06:48 PM |
#70 |
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The First Amendment was never intended for radio, TV, vinyl recordings, CD's, |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:52 AM |
#136 |
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I think that the parents of the |
pipoman |
Dec-14-09 07:20 PM |
#74 |
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Seriously |
JonQ |
Dec-14-09 07:34 PM |
#75 |
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Dupe |
JonQ |
Dec-14-09 07:34 PM |
#76 |
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The Apple Doesn't Fall Far From the Tree |
NashVegas |
Dec-15-09 11:02 AM |
#96 |
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Actually, it's all actionable libel per se, whether you lie about a business or lie about a girl's |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:11 AM |
#130 |
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Excellent! n/t |
X_Digger |
Dec-14-09 09:11 PM |
#90 |
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Cyber bulling needs to be a crime in itself that comes with an immediate fine or jail time if it's |
superconnected |
Dec-15-09 12:19 PM |
#101 |
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Its a civil matter and would take years to get in front of a judge nt |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Dec-15-09 12:59 PM |
#105 |
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I think it would move quicker, |
pipoman |
Dec-15-09 10:55 PM |
#112 |
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The judge's opinion is much narrower than the posts on this thread suggest. |
No Elephants |
Dec-16-09 04:21 AM |
#131 |
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See my post above about a somewhat similar case |
tonysam |
Dec-16-09 09:52 AM |
#140 |
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Good! So stupid bullies have no right to shame people. |
krabigirl |
Dec-17-09 11:23 AM |
#145 |
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