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Reply #166: It takes skilled people to run those ventilators [View All]

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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
166. It takes skilled people to run those ventilators
with constant monitoring 24/7. There are not near enough people with the education to do it. This has been the plan for years. Triage who is most savable.
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  -Flu Nightmare: In Severe Pandemic, Officials Ponder Disconnecting Ventilators From Some Patients rmp yellow  Sep-23-09 08:10 PM   #0 
  - Well, shit, WE are just citizens. What do we have to say in the weighty  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:13 PM   #1 
  - These guidlelines were  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:16 PM   #6 
     - No fuckin shit? So THAT makes them RIGHT. Join the RW GOP  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:17 PM   #8 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Sep-23-09 08:29 PM   #19 
  - That is just fucked up.  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:14 PM   #2 
  - And how do you distribute those ventilators? How do you predict with precision  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:44 PM   #36 
  - Simple...  nebenaube   Sep-23-09 10:01 PM   #116 
  - How many do you buy when you don't know how big the pandemic will be?  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:09 PM   #123 
     - No, of course it's not that simple  primavera   Sep-24-09 06:58 PM   #167 
  - Then the planning should be underway for tent cities  MadMaddie   Sep-25-09 08:07 PM   #173 
  - It takes skilled people to run those ventilators  Mojorabbit   Sep-24-09 04:29 PM   #166 
  - It's impossible to guess how many ventilators might be needed, or how to  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:14 PM   #3 
  - Yes, ABSOLUTELY Kill the elderly! KILL the UNPRODUCTIVES!  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:16 PM   #7 
  - I think they'd target those who wouldn't improve. Not the elderly  rmp yellow   Sep-23-09 08:25 PM   #14 
  - For all the above....It's great to be so young that you have a clear vision  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:33 PM   #22 
     - Get a grip. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:46 PM   #39 
     - If there was a shortage in a hospital and your child lay there dying,  Chemisse   Sep-24-09 04:15 AM   #150 
     - Ask a friend to slap you. Now.  aquart   Sep-24-09 04:55 AM   #152 
  - That is not what I said, as you know. If someone is already dying from a  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:25 PM   #15 
     - God,that's awful. I'm old and have talked to my family, my doctor,and had the legal papers  virgogal   Sep-23-09 08:37 PM   #24 
     - The problem was that the woman's grandchildren  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:48 PM   #42 
        - Awful situation to be in. I had a DNR on my mom,who died at  virgogal   Sep-23-09 09:10 PM   #76 
        - It is hard to let go  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:21 PM   #90 
           - It was always hard for me to imagine that this is what the woman would have wanted.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:13 PM   #124 
     - And that's why my grandfather has a living will and DNR  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:23 PM   #93 
     - If the patient or family has a DNR, fine. Otherwise it is not yours or the governements decision  mamaleah   Sep-24-09 04:51 AM   #151 
  - What?  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:19 PM   #10 
     - Who said that? Why do people love to make these leaps?  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:38 PM   #25 
  - TERRA!!  Ruby the Liberal   Sep-23-09 08:15 PM   #4 
  - Scare,...tactics? Anyone?  sicksicksick_N_tired   Sep-23-09 08:15 PM   #5 
  - It's called triage. It's how limited medical resources are allocated during emergencies.  kestrel91316   Sep-23-09 08:17 PM   #9 
  - Yes, Triage with age- and future promise of productivity discrimination  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:19 PM   #11 
  - Do you think all older people have advanced Alzheimers? They don't.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:28 PM   #17 
  - You've completely misunderstood the concept  Warpy   Sep-23-09 08:29 PM   #20 
  - Actually, as a former public health officer I haven't missed a thing  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:37 PM   #23 
  - I assume you think the Terry Schiavos in the country should all be given  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:41 PM   #30 
  - Your making unwarranted assumptions, and it's more personal opinion  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:43 PM   #32 
     - So what is your personal opinion? If there was a shortage, should a Terry Schiavo  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:51 PM   #46 
        - Shiavo is really a cross between a red-herring and a straw-man argument  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:54 PM   #51 
           - Wrong. Terry Schiavo was a real human being, and there are real human  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:11 PM   #80 
              - Yes, but trying to exploit her case as a lever in an argument  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:15 PM   #84 
                 - Why? Her kind of case is EXACTLY what the OP is about. She was a person  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:02 PM   #117 
                    - Answering your question turthfully will make heads explode.  Regret My New Name   Sep-23-09 11:01 PM   #134 
  - Perhaps if you'd ever worked in hands on health care  Warpy   Sep-23-09 08:42 PM   #31 
  - Oh, I HAVE NO DOUBT that such decisions are made everyday  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:46 PM   #38 
     - Of course triage is fair. When I come to the hospital with a child  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #55 
     - You are so FULL OF IT, give me something other than a strawman  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:59 PM   #59 
        - Are you sober? You're not making sense. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:02 PM   #64 
        - And you are making arguments with foregone conclusions  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:03 PM   #65 
           - I'm asking questions that you refuse to answer. Terry Schiavo, remember her?  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:07 PM   #71 
              - Terry Shiavo is a red herring. I get it that you don't get that.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:11 PM   #78 
                 - How exactly is it red herring?  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:33 PM   #131 
        - Guess what? You and everybody you know are going to die  Electric Monk   Sep-23-09 09:03 PM   #66 
        - Yes, so I should die SOONER???????????????????  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:06 PM   #70 
           - I sense panic. DON'T PANIC!  Electric Monk   Sep-23-09 09:14 PM   #83 
              - I had H1N1 two weeks ago, I just got the confirmation today, I'm not panicked  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:19 PM   #88 
                 - It's not young vs old  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:24 PM   #94 
                 - Sure it is. I'm sure that makes you more comfortable.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:25 PM   #96 
                    - I think you need to look up what triage is  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:26 PM   #97 
                    - Hey, I know ALL about triage. Because it is an old concept  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:31 PM   #100 
                       - So then what's your solution?  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:38 PM   #105 
                          - People who have been committed to life-support should be allowed  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:51 PM   #110 
                             - This is about extreme circumstances in the first place.  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:54 PM   #112 
                             - They are talking about AFTER a person has been triaged once  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 10:03 PM   #119 
                             - First come, first served? That would mean the person with the broken arm  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:19 PM   #128 
                             - Exactly. I can just see people dying in emergency rooms while nurses tend to runny noses  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:26 PM   #130 
                             - Yes, while old people on ventilators are kicked off to make them available  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:36 PM   #137 
                    - As usual, you provide nothing whatsoever of any substance  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:24 PM   #129 
                       - Triage has nothing to do with REMOVING people from life support  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:46 PM   #141 
                 - If it was between me and a healthy child, I think the child deserves  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:17 PM   #126 
        - Pointing out that resources are not unlimited is not a strawman.  Regret My New Name   Sep-23-09 11:03 PM   #135 
           - Kicking someone off life-support for someone with 'more to offer' aint fuckn triage  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:37 PM   #138 
              - So how would you handle a sitation...  Regret My New Name   Sep-25-09 02:30 PM   #171 
     - Life isn't a movie  Warpy   Sep-23-09 09:04 PM   #68 
        - True, triage is done based on the best interests of someone  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:09 PM   #74 
  - What would be your solution? nt  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:43 PM   #34 
  - Way to exagerate and totally miss the fucking point  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:17 PM   #127 
  - Triage has been used in war time so it is not a new thing. When there  jwirr   Sep-23-09 10:02 PM   #118 
     - Removing people from life-support isn't part of triage.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:43 PM   #140 
        - "Someone who has been placed on a ventilator was made a solemn commitment." Indefinitely?  Electric Monk   Sep-23-09 11:50 PM   #143 
  - You're being hysterical  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 08:39 PM   #27 
  - You're calling names, too. So in an irrational presentation who the fuck wins?  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:40 PM   #28 
     - I was making an observation, not calling names  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 08:52 PM   #47 
     - Sure you were  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #53 
     - Once again, you refuse to answer perfectly reasonable questions. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:57 PM   #56 
        - So you say.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:00 PM   #62 
  - That's how triage always works in a time of scarcity.  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 08:41 PM   #29 
  - NO it is NOT  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:55 PM   #113 
     - "Typically" does not equal what happens in a goddamned emergency.  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 10:39 PM   #132 
        - A pandemic of a flu that can't be distinguished from a mild cold  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:34 PM   #136 
           - Oh ffs. You fail thinking forever. Bye.  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 11:42 PM   #139 
           - Bye bye  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:47 PM   #142 
           - Okay, now you've made me laugh.  aquart   Sep-24-09 04:59 AM   #153 
  - Speak for yourself. I am over 50 and am NOT suspicious of federal health  kestrel91316   Sep-23-09 08:43 PM   #33 
  - Yes, that's your opinion. I appreciate your holding it, but  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:50 PM   #45 
  - What do you think doctors currently do with organ transplants? nt  NickB79   Sep-23-09 09:19 PM   #87 
  - I think that, mostly, the organ transplants to people with access to healthcare  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:22 PM   #92 
  - Doctors will make these decisions. They won't make them based on age and  JDPriestly   Sep-24-09 02:32 AM   #149 
  - And welcome  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:20 PM   #12 
     - I don't want family members and loud whiners making medical decisions in  kestrel91316   Sep-23-09 08:45 PM   #37 
        - I think it is  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #52 
  - Seems reasonable -- if I'm going to die anyway and my ventilator could help  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:23 PM   #13 
  - The problem with that is that it is solipsistic, why should what you would want  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:28 PM   #16 
  - I think you should talk to the families of more patients with advanced Alzheimer's.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:33 PM   #21 
  - Do family members REALLY speak of the interest of their  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:39 PM   #26 
  - How's this?  Bluenorthwest   Sep-23-09 08:46 PM   #40 
  - One instance does not a CASE make.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:48 PM   #41 
     - My mom and her sisters are all in their 80s  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:18 PM   #86 
     - I agree. The elderly people I know all have a much greater fear of developing  pnwmom   Sep-24-09 02:26 AM   #148 
     - You're generalizing from your experience. Others are generalizing from their own.n/t  pnwmom   Sep-24-09 02:22 AM   #147 
  - My father had Parkinson's dementia -- symptoms almost identical to  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #54 
  - Sorry for your guilt, but it is just more personal anecdote.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:00 PM   #61 
     - And it is just as valuable as your opinion.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:05 PM   #69 
     - But I'm not stating an opinion other than reflection on the nature  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:13 PM   #82 
     - Yes, but I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who experienced this and  gateley   Sep-23-09 09:11 PM   #79 
        - Well, you wouldn't necessarily know it if you were  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:24 PM   #95 
  - I know many families through  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:00 PM   #63 
  - thank you pnwmom  pitohui   Sep-24-09 11:29 AM   #163 
  - Okay, I'll reword it. If I, gateley, am terminally ill and my ventilator can be used  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:48 PM   #43 
     - Again, a personal choice is not an argument for general policy  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:52 PM   #48 
        - Surely it's not hard to grasp that I am only speaking for myself - how much  gateley   Sep-23-09 09:07 PM   #72 
        - It becomes a policy because an authority imposes it on you  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:30 PM   #99 
           - Yeah. WOW! What are you planning on doing to see that it doesn't happen? nt  gateley   Sep-23-09 10:05 PM   #120 
        - So tell, us, what do you think the policy should be?  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:35 PM   #103 
           - see #110  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:52 PM   #111 
  - Me, too. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:29 PM   #18 
     - I think it's just you and me, pnwmom. Hopefully this policy if it actually  gateley   Sep-23-09 09:10 PM   #75 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-23-09 09:13 PM   #81 
           - Again?  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 10:51 PM   #133 
  - Anybody see anything wrong with getting people scared shitless and worked up  elocs   Sep-23-09 08:44 PM   #35 
  - The plan is reasonable.  murray hill farm   Sep-23-09 08:49 PM   #44 
  - That is ONLY your personal opinion  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:58 PM   #58 
     - Funny...  murray hill farm   Sep-23-09 09:18 PM   #85 
        - Nope  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:45 PM   #109 
           - And you, of course....  murray hill farm   Sep-23-09 10:01 PM   #115 
              - I'm arguing that the argument supporting death panels  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 10:06 PM   #121 
  - who are the voting members of these death panels?  excess_3   Sep-23-09 08:52 PM   #49 
  - This is an Obama plan to socilize medicine, kill old people and set up prison camps for Glen Beck  MidwestTransplant   Sep-23-09 08:53 PM   #50 
  - There are not enough of a certain type of ventilator for the estimates of those who need them.  stray cat   Sep-23-09 08:58 PM   #57 
  - Perhaps people would be willing to pay a tax in order to raise funds for the ventilatorsr  rmp yellow   Sep-23-09 09:03 PM   #67 
     - It's not just ventilators. That would be too easy.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:09 PM   #73 
  - God forbid they could just buy more ventilators?  Liberty Belle   Sep-23-09 08:59 PM   #60 
  - That wouldn't solve the problem. Our whole medical system could be  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:10 PM   #77 
     - I was talking about a similar problem with my husband this morning.  hedgehog   Sep-23-09 09:22 PM   #91 
  - It's triage  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:21 PM   #89 
  - So it has a name, and it has a purpose, that makes it RIGHT?  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:29 PM   #98 
     - Let's just have the magical unicorn fairies bestow infinite medical resources on everyone!  Posteritatis   Sep-23-09 09:33 PM   #101 
     - Okay, so what do they do?  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:37 PM   #104 
     - Just for curiousity's sake,  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:40 PM   #106 
        - That is a change of subject.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:59 PM   #114 
           - Go back and read your own post  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 10:07 PM   #122 
              - Yes, as a general alternative to arguing to put people to death because health workers are in short  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 10:14 PM   #125 
                 - Since both of those are true, reality has to be addressed. No amount of shrillness will  truthisfreedom   Sep-24-09 12:14 AM   #144 
  - Would you rather have a government plan for disaster contingencies....  thelordofhell   Sep-23-09 09:34 PM   #102 
  - Is this real or made up by the "death panel" people? Hospitals prioritize all the time.  McCamy Taylor   Sep-23-09 09:42 PM   #107 
  - I wonder that as well  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:44 PM   #108 
  - Call me cynical but this is realism to me  cherish44   Sep-24-09 12:52 AM   #145 
  - it's already a pandemic.. do you mean EPIDEMIC? n/t  progressivebydesign   Sep-24-09 01:01 AM   #146 
  - Not sure. What's the difference?  rmp yellow   Sep-24-09 05:23 AM   #154 
     - "Pandemic" has no relation to severity:  triguy46   Sep-24-09 08:54 PM   #169 
  - I hope the filthy rich are stocking up on ventilators  Blandocyte   Sep-24-09 06:23 AM   #155 
  - Who Will Be The First Republican  DallasNE   Sep-24-09 06:32 AM   #156 
  - I guess I'm a little baffled as to how this is "news."  Robb   Sep-24-09 08:09 AM   #157 
  - You can begin your education here  rmp yellow   Sep-24-09 08:54 AM   #158 
     - You seem educated on Pro Publica and DU  Robb   Sep-24-09 09:35 AM   #159 
        - "Anyone who read pandemic plans"  rmp yellow   Sep-24-09 10:41 AM   #161 
           - I would never argue against informing people of anything  Robb   Sep-24-09 12:47 PM   #164 
           - I read the New York plans, and was very satisfied by them  Oak2004   Sep-26-09 01:00 AM   #174 
  - Triage is a medical concept well-known in battlefield situations  Hekate   Sep-24-09 10:30 AM   #160 
  - there are some silly people in this world  pitohui   Sep-24-09 11:23 AM   #162 
  - amen  Hekate   Sep-24-09 12:49 PM   #165 
  - This is in an extreme, e.g. 1918 pandemic  triguy46   Sep-24-09 08:52 PM   #168 
  - Necessary planning, that's all  transeo   Sep-24-09 09:07 PM   #170 
  - We did buy bunches of them.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Sep-25-09 08:01 PM   #172 
 

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