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Reply #92: I think that, mostly, the organ transplants to people with access to healthcare [View All]

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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. I think that, mostly, the organ transplants to people with access to healthcare
That usually means people with economic means.

Unless their is equity between people and universal healthcare, the poor will always donate more tissues to those with economic means than they recieve in return.

It's one of those fucked-up ponzi schemes of capitalism.
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  -Flu Nightmare: In Severe Pandemic, Officials Ponder Disconnecting Ventilators From Some Patients rmp yellow  Sep-23-09 08:10 PM   #0 
  - Well, shit, WE are just citizens. What do we have to say in the weighty  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:13 PM   #1 
  - These guidlelines were  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:16 PM   #6 
     - No fuckin shit? So THAT makes them RIGHT. Join the RW GOP  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:17 PM   #8 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Sep-23-09 08:29 PM   #19 
  - That is just fucked up.  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:14 PM   #2 
  - And how do you distribute those ventilators? How do you predict with precision  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:44 PM   #36 
  - Simple...  nebenaube   Sep-23-09 10:01 PM   #116 
  - How many do you buy when you don't know how big the pandemic will be?  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:09 PM   #123 
     - No, of course it's not that simple  primavera   Sep-24-09 06:58 PM   #167 
  - Then the planning should be underway for tent cities  MadMaddie   Sep-25-09 08:07 PM   #173 
  - It takes skilled people to run those ventilators  Mojorabbit   Sep-24-09 04:29 PM   #166 
  - It's impossible to guess how many ventilators might be needed, or how to  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:14 PM   #3 
  - Yes, ABSOLUTELY Kill the elderly! KILL the UNPRODUCTIVES!  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:16 PM   #7 
  - I think they'd target those who wouldn't improve. Not the elderly  rmp yellow   Sep-23-09 08:25 PM   #14 
  - For all the above....It's great to be so young that you have a clear vision  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:33 PM   #22 
     - Get a grip. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:46 PM   #39 
     - If there was a shortage in a hospital and your child lay there dying,  Chemisse   Sep-24-09 04:15 AM   #150 
     - Ask a friend to slap you. Now.  aquart   Sep-24-09 04:55 AM   #152 
  - That is not what I said, as you know. If someone is already dying from a  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:25 PM   #15 
     - God,that's awful. I'm old and have talked to my family, my doctor,and had the legal papers  virgogal   Sep-23-09 08:37 PM   #24 
     - The problem was that the woman's grandchildren  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:48 PM   #42 
        - Awful situation to be in. I had a DNR on my mom,who died at  virgogal   Sep-23-09 09:10 PM   #76 
        - It is hard to let go  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:21 PM   #90 
           - It was always hard for me to imagine that this is what the woman would have wanted.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:13 PM   #124 
     - And that's why my grandfather has a living will and DNR  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:23 PM   #93 
     - If the patient or family has a DNR, fine. Otherwise it is not yours or the governements decision  mamaleah   Sep-24-09 04:51 AM   #151 
  - What?  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:19 PM   #10 
     - Who said that? Why do people love to make these leaps?  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:38 PM   #25 
  - TERRA!!  Ruby the Liberal   Sep-23-09 08:15 PM   #4 
  - Scare,...tactics? Anyone?  sicksicksick_N_tired   Sep-23-09 08:15 PM   #5 
  - It's called triage. It's how limited medical resources are allocated during emergencies.  kestrel91316   Sep-23-09 08:17 PM   #9 
  - Yes, Triage with age- and future promise of productivity discrimination  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:19 PM   #11 
  - Do you think all older people have advanced Alzheimers? They don't.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:28 PM   #17 
  - You've completely misunderstood the concept  Warpy   Sep-23-09 08:29 PM   #20 
  - Actually, as a former public health officer I haven't missed a thing  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:37 PM   #23 
  - I assume you think the Terry Schiavos in the country should all be given  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:41 PM   #30 
  - Your making unwarranted assumptions, and it's more personal opinion  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:43 PM   #32 
     - So what is your personal opinion? If there was a shortage, should a Terry Schiavo  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:51 PM   #46 
        - Shiavo is really a cross between a red-herring and a straw-man argument  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:54 PM   #51 
           - Wrong. Terry Schiavo was a real human being, and there are real human  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:11 PM   #80 
              - Yes, but trying to exploit her case as a lever in an argument  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:15 PM   #84 
                 - Why? Her kind of case is EXACTLY what the OP is about. She was a person  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:02 PM   #117 
                    - Answering your question turthfully will make heads explode.  Regret My New Name   Sep-23-09 11:01 PM   #134 
  - Perhaps if you'd ever worked in hands on health care  Warpy   Sep-23-09 08:42 PM   #31 
  - Oh, I HAVE NO DOUBT that such decisions are made everyday  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:46 PM   #38 
     - Of course triage is fair. When I come to the hospital with a child  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #55 
     - You are so FULL OF IT, give me something other than a strawman  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:59 PM   #59 
        - Are you sober? You're not making sense. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:02 PM   #64 
        - And you are making arguments with foregone conclusions  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:03 PM   #65 
           - I'm asking questions that you refuse to answer. Terry Schiavo, remember her?  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:07 PM   #71 
              - Terry Shiavo is a red herring. I get it that you don't get that.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:11 PM   #78 
                 - How exactly is it red herring?  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:33 PM   #131 
        - Guess what? You and everybody you know are going to die  Electric Monk   Sep-23-09 09:03 PM   #66 
        - Yes, so I should die SOONER???????????????????  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:06 PM   #70 
           - I sense panic. DON'T PANIC!  Electric Monk   Sep-23-09 09:14 PM   #83 
              - I had H1N1 two weeks ago, I just got the confirmation today, I'm not panicked  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:19 PM   #88 
                 - It's not young vs old  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:24 PM   #94 
                 - Sure it is. I'm sure that makes you more comfortable.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:25 PM   #96 
                    - I think you need to look up what triage is  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:26 PM   #97 
                    - Hey, I know ALL about triage. Because it is an old concept  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:31 PM   #100 
                       - So then what's your solution?  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:38 PM   #105 
                          - People who have been committed to life-support should be allowed  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:51 PM   #110 
                             - This is about extreme circumstances in the first place.  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:54 PM   #112 
                             - They are talking about AFTER a person has been triaged once  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 10:03 PM   #119 
                             - First come, first served? That would mean the person with the broken arm  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:19 PM   #128 
                             - Exactly. I can just see people dying in emergency rooms while nurses tend to runny noses  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:26 PM   #130 
                             - Yes, while old people on ventilators are kicked off to make them available  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:36 PM   #137 
                    - As usual, you provide nothing whatsoever of any substance  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:24 PM   #129 
                       - Triage has nothing to do with REMOVING people from life support  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:46 PM   #141 
                 - If it was between me and a healthy child, I think the child deserves  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 10:17 PM   #126 
        - Pointing out that resources are not unlimited is not a strawman.  Regret My New Name   Sep-23-09 11:03 PM   #135 
           - Kicking someone off life-support for someone with 'more to offer' aint fuckn triage  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:37 PM   #138 
              - So how would you handle a sitation...  Regret My New Name   Sep-25-09 02:30 PM   #171 
     - Life isn't a movie  Warpy   Sep-23-09 09:04 PM   #68 
        - True, triage is done based on the best interests of someone  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:09 PM   #74 
  - What would be your solution? nt  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:43 PM   #34 
  - Way to exagerate and totally miss the fucking point  Hugabear   Sep-23-09 10:17 PM   #127 
  - Triage has been used in war time so it is not a new thing. When there  jwirr   Sep-23-09 10:02 PM   #118 
     - Removing people from life-support isn't part of triage.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:43 PM   #140 
        - "Someone who has been placed on a ventilator was made a solemn commitment." Indefinitely?  Electric Monk   Sep-23-09 11:50 PM   #143 
  - You're being hysterical  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 08:39 PM   #27 
  - You're calling names, too. So in an irrational presentation who the fuck wins?  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:40 PM   #28 
     - I was making an observation, not calling names  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 08:52 PM   #47 
     - Sure you were  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #53 
     - Once again, you refuse to answer perfectly reasonable questions. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:57 PM   #56 
        - So you say.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:00 PM   #62 
  - That's how triage always works in a time of scarcity.  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 08:41 PM   #29 
  - NO it is NOT  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:55 PM   #113 
     - "Typically" does not equal what happens in a goddamned emergency.  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 10:39 PM   #132 
        - A pandemic of a flu that can't be distinguished from a mild cold  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:34 PM   #136 
           - Oh ffs. You fail thinking forever. Bye.  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 11:42 PM   #139 
           - Bye bye  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 11:47 PM   #142 
           - Okay, now you've made me laugh.  aquart   Sep-24-09 04:59 AM   #153 
  - Speak for yourself. I am over 50 and am NOT suspicious of federal health  kestrel91316   Sep-23-09 08:43 PM   #33 
  - Yes, that's your opinion. I appreciate your holding it, but  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:50 PM   #45 
  - What do you think doctors currently do with organ transplants? nt  NickB79   Sep-23-09 09:19 PM   #87 
  - I think that, mostly, the organ transplants to people with access to healthcare  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:22 PM   #92 
  - Doctors will make these decisions. They won't make them based on age and  JDPriestly   Sep-24-09 02:32 AM   #149 
  - And welcome  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:20 PM   #12 
     - I don't want family members and loud whiners making medical decisions in  kestrel91316   Sep-23-09 08:45 PM   #37 
        - I think it is  bbinacan   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #52 
  - Seems reasonable -- if I'm going to die anyway and my ventilator could help  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:23 PM   #13 
  - The problem with that is that it is solipsistic, why should what you would want  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:28 PM   #16 
  - I think you should talk to the families of more patients with advanced Alzheimer's.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:33 PM   #21 
  - Do family members REALLY speak of the interest of their  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:39 PM   #26 
  - How's this?  Bluenorthwest   Sep-23-09 08:46 PM   #40 
  - One instance does not a CASE make.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:48 PM   #41 
     - My mom and her sisters are all in their 80s  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:18 PM   #86 
     - I agree. The elderly people I know all have a much greater fear of developing  pnwmom   Sep-24-09 02:26 AM   #148 
     - You're generalizing from your experience. Others are generalizing from their own.n/t  pnwmom   Sep-24-09 02:22 AM   #147 
  - My father had Parkinson's dementia -- symptoms almost identical to  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:55 PM   #54 
  - Sorry for your guilt, but it is just more personal anecdote.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:00 PM   #61 
     - And it is just as valuable as your opinion.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:05 PM   #69 
     - But I'm not stating an opinion other than reflection on the nature  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:13 PM   #82 
     - Yes, but I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who experienced this and  gateley   Sep-23-09 09:11 PM   #79 
        - Well, you wouldn't necessarily know it if you were  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:24 PM   #95 
  - I know many families through  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:00 PM   #63 
  - thank you pnwmom  pitohui   Sep-24-09 11:29 AM   #163 
  - Okay, I'll reword it. If I, gateley, am terminally ill and my ventilator can be used  gateley   Sep-23-09 08:48 PM   #43 
     - Again, a personal choice is not an argument for general policy  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:52 PM   #48 
        - Surely it's not hard to grasp that I am only speaking for myself - how much  gateley   Sep-23-09 09:07 PM   #72 
        - It becomes a policy because an authority imposes it on you  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:30 PM   #99 
           - Yeah. WOW! What are you planning on doing to see that it doesn't happen? nt  gateley   Sep-23-09 10:05 PM   #120 
        - So tell, us, what do you think the policy should be?  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:35 PM   #103 
           - see #110  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:52 PM   #111 
  - Me, too. n/t  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 08:29 PM   #18 
     - I think it's just you and me, pnwmom. Hopefully this policy if it actually  gateley   Sep-23-09 09:10 PM   #75 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-23-09 09:13 PM   #81 
           - Again?  LeftyMom   Sep-23-09 10:51 PM   #133 
  - Anybody see anything wrong with getting people scared shitless and worked up  elocs   Sep-23-09 08:44 PM   #35 
  - The plan is reasonable.  murray hill farm   Sep-23-09 08:49 PM   #44 
  - That is ONLY your personal opinion  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 08:58 PM   #58 
     - Funny...  murray hill farm   Sep-23-09 09:18 PM   #85 
        - Nope  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:45 PM   #109 
           - And you, of course....  murray hill farm   Sep-23-09 10:01 PM   #115 
              - I'm arguing that the argument supporting death panels  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 10:06 PM   #121 
  - who are the voting members of these death panels?  excess_3   Sep-23-09 08:52 PM   #49 
  - This is an Obama plan to socilize medicine, kill old people and set up prison camps for Glen Beck  MidwestTransplant   Sep-23-09 08:53 PM   #50 
  - There are not enough of a certain type of ventilator for the estimates of those who need them.  stray cat   Sep-23-09 08:58 PM   #57 
  - Perhaps people would be willing to pay a tax in order to raise funds for the ventilatorsr  rmp yellow   Sep-23-09 09:03 PM   #67 
     - It's not just ventilators. That would be too easy.  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:09 PM   #73 
  - God forbid they could just buy more ventilators?  Liberty Belle   Sep-23-09 08:59 PM   #60 
  - That wouldn't solve the problem. Our whole medical system could be  pnwmom   Sep-23-09 09:10 PM   #77 
     - I was talking about a similar problem with my husband this morning.  hedgehog   Sep-23-09 09:22 PM   #91 
  - It's triage  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:21 PM   #89 
  - So it has a name, and it has a purpose, that makes it RIGHT?  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:29 PM   #98 
     - Let's just have the magical unicorn fairies bestow infinite medical resources on everyone!  Posteritatis   Sep-23-09 09:33 PM   #101 
     - Okay, so what do they do?  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:37 PM   #104 
     - Just for curiousity's sake,  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 09:40 PM   #106 
        - That is a change of subject.  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 09:59 PM   #114 
           - Go back and read your own post  dflprincess   Sep-23-09 10:07 PM   #122 
              - Yes, as a general alternative to arguing to put people to death because health workers are in short  HereSince1628   Sep-23-09 10:14 PM   #125 
                 - Since both of those are true, reality has to be addressed. No amount of shrillness will  truthisfreedom   Sep-24-09 12:14 AM   #144 
  - Would you rather have a government plan for disaster contingencies....  thelordofhell   Sep-23-09 09:34 PM   #102 
  - Is this real or made up by the "death panel" people? Hospitals prioritize all the time.  McCamy Taylor   Sep-23-09 09:42 PM   #107 
  - I wonder that as well  tammywammy   Sep-23-09 09:44 PM   #108 
  - Call me cynical but this is realism to me  cherish44   Sep-24-09 12:52 AM   #145 
  - it's already a pandemic.. do you mean EPIDEMIC? n/t  progressivebydesign   Sep-24-09 01:01 AM   #146 
  - Not sure. What's the difference?  rmp yellow   Sep-24-09 05:23 AM   #154 
     - "Pandemic" has no relation to severity:  triguy46   Sep-24-09 08:54 PM   #169 
  - I hope the filthy rich are stocking up on ventilators  Blandocyte   Sep-24-09 06:23 AM   #155 
  - Who Will Be The First Republican  DallasNE   Sep-24-09 06:32 AM   #156 
  - I guess I'm a little baffled as to how this is "news."  Robb   Sep-24-09 08:09 AM   #157 
  - You can begin your education here  rmp yellow   Sep-24-09 08:54 AM   #158 
     - You seem educated on Pro Publica and DU  Robb   Sep-24-09 09:35 AM   #159 
        - "Anyone who read pandemic plans"  rmp yellow   Sep-24-09 10:41 AM   #161 
           - I would never argue against informing people of anything  Robb   Sep-24-09 12:47 PM   #164 
           - I read the New York plans, and was very satisfied by them  Oak2004   Sep-26-09 01:00 AM   #174 
  - Triage is a medical concept well-known in battlefield situations  Hekate   Sep-24-09 10:30 AM   #160 
  - there are some silly people in this world  pitohui   Sep-24-09 11:23 AM   #162 
  - amen  Hekate   Sep-24-09 12:49 PM   #165 
  - This is in an extreme, e.g. 1918 pandemic  triguy46   Sep-24-09 08:52 PM   #168 
  - Necessary planning, that's all  transeo   Sep-24-09 09:07 PM   #170 
  - We did buy bunches of them.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Sep-25-09 08:01 PM   #172 
 

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