ozymandius
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Fri Aug-28-09 04:42 AM
Response to Original message |
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Speculating on Recovery BY DANIELLE PARK“"Better-than-expected" is Wall Street's euphemism these days for "we're happier than we thought we'd be." But Wall Street is in the business of cheer leading, even when there's really nothing to cheer about. It wants investors to think positively, on the assumption that positive thinking can be a self-fulfilling prophesy: If investors begin putting more money into the market, then the market will automatically rise, leading more investors to put in more money -- until, that is, the rally ends because nothing has fundamentally changed in the real economy. Keep your eye on the real economy, where unemployment and underemployment keep rising. It's not as much fun as cheering and investing right now, but it's far safer.”
--Robert Reich US Secretary of Labour, July 24, 2009
It is now widely speculated that the great recession of 2007-2009 will soon be ending. If the American recession does end this fall, it will mark the longest and deepest economic contraction since the 1930’s. To see the end of negative growth this cycle would be a great first step. But stock markets typically don’t begin sustainable bull expansions until an economic recovery is apparent. Recoveries require a pick up in demand in the real economy that can increase revenues and GDP. So far evidence of a growth recovery is the key missing link in our picture. The recent spate of less-bad earnings data has been born of companies slashing overhead to produce net income at any cost. This is the rational response of management struggling to stay afloat when revenues have fallen off a cliff. One of the painful after-shocks of deep cost cutting of course is the wake of unemployment and under-employment that it leaves behind. Unemployed people buy little. People concerned that they may become unemployed also buy less. It is for this reason that unemployment serves to prolong downturns and undermine the recovery. Historically, in a typical recession the US economy has lost about 2 million permanent jobs. In this recession so far, 9 million full time jobs have been lost and 3 million people have been forced into part-time work. Traditionally there have been about 4 million people who are under-employed, meaning they are working part-time hours because they cannot find more work. This recession so far has 9 million Americans who report that they are looking but unable to find full-time hours. Under-employment in Canada has also more than doubled during this recession. http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm
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| -STOCK MARKET WATCH, Friday August 28 |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 04:38 AM |
#0 |
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Good Morning!!! Have a super weekend |
saigon68 |
Aug-28-09 04:41 AM |
#1 |
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G'morning. |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 04:47 AM |
#3 |
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Market Observation |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 04:42 AM |
#2 |
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Why People Say It's Over: Hale "Bonddad" Stewart: The Myth of the Black Swan |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:08 AM |
#8 |
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Why We Don't Believe Them |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:15 AM |
#10 |
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Exactly. |
DemReadingDU |
Aug-28-09 05:52 AM |
#23 |
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I would add to your list of why we don't believe them - NOTHING HAS CHANGED. |
fasttense |
Aug-28-09 05:53 AM |
#24 |
  -
Agreed. |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:57 AM |
#25 |
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Yeah. What she said. ;-) |
Tansy_Gold |
Aug-28-09 06:25 AM |
#30 |
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Morning Marketeers..... |
AnneD |
Aug-28-09 09:49 AM |
#110 |
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Fundamentally Succesful People Care. Thanks, Anne! |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 11:03 AM |
#114 |
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Shouldn't "than" be followed by an accusative? I'm not sure. |
Joe Chi Minh |
Aug-28-09 06:51 AM |
#38 |
  -
Look at the Construction |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 06:58 AM |
#41 |
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Lambert's Law of Language: |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 07:22 AM |
#48 |
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The language elitist in me politely disagrees ;-) |
Tansy_Gold |
Aug-28-09 08:05 AM |
#78 |
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Mark Twain started it! |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 08:17 AM |
#84 |
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YAY! |
bain_sidhe |
Aug-28-09 11:17 AM |
#115 |
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He is another line for your Teacher Husband |
mrdmk |
Aug-28-09 11:41 AM |
#117 |
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Yeah! What he said! |
bain_sidhe |
Aug-28-09 12:00 PM |
#120 |
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these days, the ability to write standard English will make you stand out from the crowd. |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 11:56 AM |
#119 |
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Yup. That's why I said "sadly" |
bain_sidhe |
Aug-28-09 12:04 PM |
#121 |
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Well, if y'all want to coast around the DU sounding like Mattie Ross in "True Grit"... |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 12:15 PM |
#123 |
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Oh, man, I haven't thought of that movie in ages! |
bain_sidhe |
Aug-28-09 12:31 PM |
#125 |
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Yes, she was a person of principle and lived up to her creed. |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 12:49 PM |
#128 |
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IDEA! Maybe we should start a "language elitist" group |
bain_sidhe |
Aug-28-09 12:08 PM |
#122 |
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Here's the first question for you to mull the number of which will fit on the head of a pin. |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 12:19 PM |
#124 |
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bringing it back to the topic at hand, I see... |
bain_sidhe |
Aug-28-09 12:34 PM |
#126 |
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Not, exactly... It's relevance to the topic at hand is merely a coincidence. |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 12:43 PM |
#127 |
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Yeah, those commas have a pretty good right hook. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 04:23 PM |
#143 |
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I read this at the public library |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 03:59 PM |
#139 |
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NLP: Communication is the response you get. |
TalkingDog |
Aug-28-09 11:50 AM |
#118 |
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Yes, I know, I know. I saw the error after the edit feature expired. |
fasttense |
Aug-28-09 09:21 AM |
#101 |
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Well, that sounded an awful lot like #3 and #4. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 06:25 AM |
#29 |
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FRSP is the Only Thing That Comes to Mind |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 06:28 AM |
#32 |
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Did the period following the French Revolution spawn a lot of good and abiding regulations? |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 07:09 AM |
#42 |
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FRSP Refers Solely to "Madame la Guillotine" |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 07:17 AM |
#43 |
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OMG, I agree with Demeter on something! |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 07:34 AM |
#54 |
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One cannot argue with faith. |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:23 AM |
#12 |
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Unemployment went down last month. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 06:41 AM |
#36 |
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While we're throwing around monikered rules... Hugin's Unemployment Observation |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 08:11 AM |
#80 |
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AMEN! |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 08:14 AM |
#83 |
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Ditto. eom |
Tansy_Gold |
Aug-28-09 03:15 PM |
#134 |
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I agree, we could and should do more to fight unemployment. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 04:36 PM |
#145 |
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I refer the author to James Howard Kunstler latest bulletin, linked here yesterday: |
Joe Chi Minh |
Aug-28-09 06:54 AM |
#39 |
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Today's Reports |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 04:50 AM |
#4 |
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U.S. July incomes flat vs. 0.2% gain expected - July inflation flat, core prices up 0.1% |
UpInArms |
Aug-28-09 08:00 AM |
#70 |
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Oil prices hover near $73 in Asia |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 04:54 AM |
#5 |
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Awash in natural gas, prices hit new 7-year lows |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:09 AM |
#9 |
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Also interesting |
Robbien |
Aug-28-09 07:17 AM |
#44 |
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Oil futures up 71 cents at $73.20/brl on Globex |
UpInArms |
Aug-28-09 08:01 AM |
#73 |
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Dell sales drop Y-O-Y, share price leaps. |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 04:59 AM |
#6 |
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Evidence mounts recession's grip on economy easing |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:06 AM |
#7 |
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Wall Street Rules: The Bernanke Reappointment Robert L. Borosage |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:21 AM |
#11 |
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Stanford’s finance chief pleads guilty |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:25 AM |
#13 |
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Do you hear an update to Ozy's scoreboard coming? |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 07:51 AM |
#63 |
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BTW, Ozy, I've lost track of the malefactors you counted on the scoreboard. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 07:54 AM |
#64 |
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We should have a look-up list or link |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 07:57 AM |
#67 |
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Maybe down in the body of the thread, something like Festivito's record of the national debt. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 08:13 AM |
#81 |
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"Timpani" and "tympani" are both correct |
1955doubledie |
Aug-28-09 08:56 AM |
#94 |
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When you get to rules of spelling, our language is truly insane. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 03:05 PM |
#132 |
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The end of the line for California automaking |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:26 AM |
#14 |
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That plant made the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 07:46 AM |
#60 |
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Mentioned this story to my wife, and she said, "Now they get a taste of what it's like in Michigan." |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 03:40 PM |
#135 |
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Banks on Sick List Top 400 |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:28 AM |
#15 |
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I Can't Wait to See the Bank Failures Tonight |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:34 AM |
#17 |
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Toyota to halt production in California plant |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:33 AM |
#16 |
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In Related News: ‘Cash-for-clunkers’ sales disappoint Detroit |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:38 AM |
#18 |
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I Also Read or Heard that "Buyer's Remorse" is Setting In |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:59 AM |
#27 |
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let's call it "burrowing" forward. |
Po_d Mainiac |
Aug-28-09 06:49 AM |
#37 |
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Debt: 08/25/2009 11,730,400,622,450.31 (UP 11,339,696,584.45) (Mostly the FICA side.) |
Festivito |
Aug-28-09 05:40 AM |
#19 |
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Debt: 08/26/2009 11,716,563,436,531.39 (DOWN 13,837,185,918.92) (Both down.) |
Festivito |
Aug-28-09 02:34 PM |
#130 |
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Debt: 08/27/2009 11,725,477,836,090.85 (UP 8,914,399,559.46) (Both up.) |
Festivito |
Aug-28-09 02:37 PM |
#131 |
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Spain's Toxic Waste Cleanup: Santander unveils €16bn bond buy-back |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 05:42 AM |
#20 |
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ATA Truck Tonnage Index Rose 2.1 Percent in July |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:47 AM |
#21 |
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Loans That Looked Easy Pose Threats to Recovery |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:51 AM |
#22 |
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Have a nice day, folks. |
ozymandius |
Aug-28-09 05:59 AM |
#26 |
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See You Later Ozy! On the Weekend Economists Thread in Editorials Forum |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 06:05 AM |
#28 |
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Folk songs of the 30's did but not the 60's |
kickysnana |
Aug-28-09 06:26 AM |
#31 |
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Okay! Then That's What We Will Do! |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 06:29 AM |
#33 |
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Songs of the Great Depression |
1955doubledie |
Aug-28-09 09:07 AM |
#95 |
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Don't forget the ultimate classic... "Happy Days Are Here Again" |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 09:13 AM |
#97 |
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May I suggest James McMurtry? |
Loge23 |
Aug-28-09 08:01 AM |
#74 |
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OH, CANADA (SIGH) Debt tripping up Canadians |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 06:36 AM |
#34 |
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Debt Burden Quickens Power Shift as G-8 Loses Clout (Update2) |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 06:38 AM |
#35 |
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With Wounded Pride, Unemployed Koreans Quietly Turn to Manual Labor |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 06:56 AM |
#40 |
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Huh, Americans turn to sticking up 7-11s. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 07:57 AM |
#68 |
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Sure, why not? |
1955doubledie |
Aug-28-09 09:19 AM |
#99 |
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Ten principles for a Black Swan-proof world By Nassim Nicholas Taleb |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 07:19 AM |
#45 |
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Barney shoots straight? |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:21 AM |
#46 |
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1,000 Banks to Fail In Next Two Years: Bank CEO |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:22 AM |
#47 |
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Welcome to DU! |
Strong Atheist |
Aug-30-09 01:27 PM |
#147 |
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Hummel: The US Will Default On Its Debt |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:23 AM |
#49 |
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NO, That's the IMF Way |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 07:56 AM |
#66 |
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So how high will the national debt rise if gov keeps commitment to the People? |
DemReadingDU |
Aug-28-09 08:22 AM |
#87 |
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We Have to Take Out the GOP Tax Cuts and the GOP Wars |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 08:28 AM |
#92 |
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Agree with you there |
DemReadingDU |
Aug-28-09 08:48 AM |
#93 |
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I'm sorry but BOTH parties at fault. |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 09:17 AM |
#98 |
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What Sibel says |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 09:27 AM |
#103 |
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Yup, Democrats and Republicans. Exactly the same. |
1955doubledie |
Aug-28-09 09:27 AM |
#104 |
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You are either on the bus |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 09:31 AM |
#105 |
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Speaking as one "under-the-bus"... I can say. |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 09:33 AM |
#107 |
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Close enough though. |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 09:48 AM |
#109 |
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A third option? Love it. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 03:44 PM |
#136 |
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I'm with him |
Wednesdays |
Aug-28-09 09:45 AM |
#108 |
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Me? |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 09:53 AM |
#111 |
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Keep on talking |
Wednesdays |
Aug-28-09 09:58 AM |
#112 |
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If You Want to Pick a Fight With Someone, Could You Do It On Another Thread, Please? |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 11:01 AM |
#113 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-28-09 11:32 AM |
#116 |
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I think there's an old adage about a door that would apply here |
Tansy_Gold |
Aug-28-09 03:51 PM |
#137 |
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Oh, snap. A message deleted on SMW. That's rare. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 04:31 PM |
#144 |
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Hummel: Why Default on U.S. Treasuries is Likely |
DemReadingDU |
Aug-28-09 08:28 AM |
#91 |
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Very Interesting |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 04:06 PM |
#141 |
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Recession hitting Farms |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:26 AM |
#50 |
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Hay yields down, prices on rise |
Robbien |
Aug-28-09 07:46 AM |
#59 |
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Racketeering 101: Bailed Out Banks Threaten Systemic Collapse If Fed Discloses Information |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:28 AM |
#51 |
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The Holdup - David Bromberg |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:33 AM |
#53 |
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I Call. Let Them All Go Under |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 08:00 AM |
#72 |
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dollar watch |
UpInArms |
Aug-28-09 07:29 AM |
#52 |
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Tiffany results beat estimates, shares up (the rich are still getting richer) |
UpInArms |
Aug-28-09 07:36 AM |
#55 |
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The World's 50 Safest Banks |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:36 AM |
#56 |
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Thanks! I Needed That! |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 08:02 AM |
#75 |
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Not sure. |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 08:08 AM |
#79 |
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Demand Destruction Price Deflation |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:38 AM |
#57 |
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From dust to bust, America's poor take on a new type of monster |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:43 AM |
#58 |
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At least it isn't this bad yet. |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:47 AM |
#61 |
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New monster in town |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:51 AM |
#62 |
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Love the 'toon. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 08:05 AM |
#77 |
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Jesusland |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 08:18 AM |
#85 |
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Change we can believe in |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:55 AM |
#65 |
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Source: Richardson Probe "Was Killed In Washington" |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 07:58 AM |
#69 |
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At this point, who cares? |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 08:19 AM |
#86 |
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It is TPM |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 09:19 AM |
#100 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-28-09 09:32 AM |
#106 |
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Epoon hasn't posted anything more negative than Tansy Gold or Demeter or The Watcher. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 03:58 PM |
#138 |
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Latin America Moving Away From Drug Prohibition? |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 08:00 AM |
#71 |
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Sadly there is No Obama unicorn bacon pic |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 08:05 AM |
#76 |
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I found this adivce on my future money issue. |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 08:13 AM |
#82 |
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Yes, Our Condo Association Did That |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 08:24 AM |
#89 |
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Florida Congresswoman short-sales house, shacks up with constituent! |
Dr.Phool |
Aug-28-09 08:22 AM |
#88 |
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Wow. that's some loss. |
Demeter |
Aug-28-09 08:25 AM |
#90 |
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Remind me to relate the story of when... |
Hugin |
Aug-28-09 09:07 AM |
#96 |
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Ben Franklin was FOX newsworthy |
Epoon |
Aug-28-09 09:24 AM |
#102 |
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Nation's Unemployment Outlook Improves Drastically After Fifth Beer |
Dr.Phool |
Aug-28-09 12:49 PM |
#129 |
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Is that something to do with all those folks who fall off |
Ghost Dog |
Aug-28-09 03:07 PM |
#133 |
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The economy might look all rosy tonight, |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 04:06 PM |
#140 |
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Stock Market didn't move much today. |
tclambert |
Aug-28-09 04:15 PM |
#142 |
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How about Adair Turner, Chairman of the Financial Services Authority, |
Joe Chi Minh |
Aug-28-09 07:11 PM |
#146 |