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Reply #33: Everyone i know working for a public option actually would prefer single payer. [View All]

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Jun-07-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Everyone i know working for a public option actually would prefer single payer.
In fact, the proponents have said repeatedly it is a stepping stone to single payer.

So why not just pass a single payer system? Since that's what both the public option people want and the single payer people want?

Any public option plan that functions like you or I would want it to function is unacceptable to the health care industrial complex. And just as unacceptable as a single payer system.

So there is zero political advantage to a public option over a single payer system. In fact it would be harder to pass since a lot of people who favor single payer don't want a public option system

Then their is the question of cost. We already have tons of evidence that single payer contains costs quite effectively while insuring quality care for all with complete choice of care provider. It's portable, it's easy, both for the care provider and for the patient.

The public option will raise costs significantly. It will require widespread and constant means testing to determine who is eligible for government subsidies and who isn't and how much subsidies someone is eligible for.

For example, the cost of administering Medicade is about 5% higher than the cost of administering Medicare, since virtually everyone is eligible for Medicare when they turn 65. There is no means testing, so it's much cheaper to do. With Medicade, the applicant has to go down to the county and fill out reams of paper work documenting their income, and if the income changes they have to update that in a timely fashion. And a case worker has to review and document the incomes and then has to determine what benefit the recipient gets. It's expensive, it's time consuming, if a mistake is made the recipient has to pay back any over benefits accidentally dispersed. The state has to follow up and collect.

Also, remember what happened as soon as the Medicare part D (drug benefit) went into effect and the government subsidized big pharma? Drug prices took a big jump. And why not? Free money for big pharma. The same will happen with private insurance.

Cost is why we are where we are today. If health care weren't too expensive no one would be debating anything.

But cost is why so many people are uninsured and under insured.

It's why there are less people covered by private insurance today than a year ago, and why a year ago there were less people covered by private insurance than a year before that.

The public option is actually a bail out for private insurance companies.

Why not demand what we want and what we know works to cover everyone and to bring down costs? Anything else is just screwing around.
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  US House To Hold Hearings On Single Payer Health Care John Q. Citizen  Jun-07-09 06:38 AM   #0 
   Is this just a hearing to say "they had a hearing?"  Political Heretic   Jun-07-09 07:00 AM   #1 
   Nope. George Miller is a co-sponsor of The Medicare for All Act. This is how any bill gets passed.  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 07:20 AM   #2 
   That's just a long way of saying we're not going to get health care reform  Political Heretic   Jun-07-09 09:09 AM   #8 
   No, it's a way of saying that power never concedes power with out demands placed on it. No one  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 11:45 AM   #22 
   Hear, hear!  knixphan   Jun-07-09 12:15 PM   #28 
   Yes, FDR's "Make me do it."  jwirr   Jun-07-09 01:26 PM   #34 
   Good - and what actions are you taking?  Matariki   Jun-09-09 11:34 AM   #156 
   50000000 single payer Fans Can't Be Wrong!  sasquuatch55   Jun-07-09 05:38 PM   #85 
   A public option won't become a dumping ground if ....  YewNork   Jun-07-09 12:39 PM   #29 
   Everyone i know working for a public option actually would prefer single payer.  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 01:16 PM   #33 
   Please add this very educational post to your journal.  clear eye   Jun-07-09 02:11 PM   #46 
   Thanks for the suggestion; I'll do that.  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 02:29 PM   #54 
   You make some great points, but...  John K   Jun-07-09 02:13 PM   #48 
   they are using it anyway; Have you seen the adds? And since a single payer  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 02:39 PM   #56 
   There's a lot more possibility of getting the public to agree to a public plan  YewNork   Jun-07-09 05:09 PM   #79 
      Their is a lot less possibility of getting the public to agree to a public private hybrid  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 06:37 PM   #90 
         Bzzzzst. You guess wrong..  YewNork   Jun-07-09 09:16 PM   #104 
            Self-delete  clear eye   Jun-08-09 02:33 AM   #117 
               The last polls done show 60%  clear eye   Jun-08-09 02:35 AM   #118 
                  I think Yew means that I was wrong in gusessing that  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 12:33 PM   #137 
                     Ding!  YewNork   Jun-08-09 03:14 PM   #140 
                        Have you seen the Sanders bill? I ask because I agree that the health care  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 03:52 PM   #141 
                           Yes, Saskatchewan was the first province to implement single payer.  YewNork   Jun-08-09 10:13 PM   #151 
                              The California legislature has passed it twice but arnold vetoed it. The AMA is a shadow of  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 11:36 PM   #152 
                                 Regardless of what is implemented, public plan or single payer - one thing that will be needed is  YewNork   Jun-09-09 07:13 AM   #154 
   Not really, as many Democratic Congresses have learned, repealing  Greyhound   Jun-08-09 04:19 AM   #122 
   Excellent point. Also elimination of multiple payers...  clear eye   Jun-07-09 02:22 PM   #51 
   Ya know, I am sick to death about "costs" for single payer:  howmad1   Jun-07-09 08:32 PM   #103 
   Welcome to DU!  Strong Atheist   Jun-07-09 04:05 PM   #65 
   I think George Miller is a progressive Democrat who will pull strongly for single payer health  avaistheone1   Jun-07-09 12:53 PM   #30 
   Kennedy's proposed bill doesn't permit it.  Ms. Toad   Jun-07-09 05:16 PM   #84 
   Neither does single payer. No guareentees it will get through intact, but as  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 06:45 PM   #91 
      No argument from me there -  Ms. Toad   Jun-07-09 07:15 PM   #96 
         I would prefere it too.  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 07:33 PM   #98 
            Actually, as it is defined in the Kennedy bill  Ms. Toad   Jun-07-09 09:19 PM   #105 
               Yes, the other problem is affordabilty. We know single payer contains costs and  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 11:15 PM   #111 
                  And I agree with what you want -  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 11:07 AM   #133 
                     There's the Sanders Bill in the Senate, it's campanion in the house and  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 12:31 PM   #136 
                        Do you have a link to the bill  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 01:34 PM   #138 
                        That isn't the Sanders Bill.  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 04:18 PM   #144 
                           You're right - I just followed the two links you provided  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 04:52 PM   #145 
                              The state would use other monies as well, since states kick in considerable amounts as it is  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 05:14 PM   #146 
                                 Unfortunately,  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 07:12 PM   #147 
                                    California has passed single payer twice, The Gov hasn't signed it. One thing  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 08:14 PM   #148 
                                       Basis for premiums  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 09:05 PM   #150 
                        Now that I have taken a quick scan of Sanders' Bill  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 02:18 PM   #139 
                           This is what I was refering to  John Q. Citizen   Jun-08-09 04:11 PM   #143 
                           Note: The analysis of the above was the Conyers bill  Ms. Toad   Jun-09-09 01:54 PM   #157 
   K & R!!! How Does One Get In Touch W/ Miller?  DaLittle Kitty   Jun-07-09 10:44 PM   #106 
      call YOUR representative, make him/her aware of the hearing.  stlsaxman   Jun-08-09 06:26 AM   #125 
         My Rep Is A Right Wing Fascist Moron! Ginny Brown-Waite Puppet Of Insurance Extraordinaire!  DaLittle Kitty   Jun-08-09 11:30 AM   #135 
            Sorry to hear that... call anyone that'll listen.  stlsaxman   Jun-08-09 08:46 PM   #149 
   This gives me confidence on the House side, but we've GOT to get it out of the Senate too......  Ginny from the Block   Jun-07-09 10:42 AM   #17 
   Yes, the problem is almost always in the House of Lords.  RUMMYisFROSTED   Jun-07-09 11:28 AM   #20 
   Public employees are already insured  clear eye   Jun-07-09 02:33 PM   #55 
   But not for long with double digit cost increases..........  Ginny from the Block   Jun-07-09 11:11 PM   #108 
   I'm one of the strongest proponents of H.R 676  clear eye   Jun-08-09 02:19 AM   #116 
      Public employees don't have a public plan, they have private insurance paid for with public dollars!  Ginny from the Block   Jun-09-09 01:50 AM   #153 
   Kennedy's public option has sliding scale premiums  Ms. Toad   Jun-09-09 01:57 PM   #158 
   Welcome to DU!  Strong Atheist   Jun-07-09 04:05 PM   #66 
   Thanks! It's nice to be noticed!  Ginny from the Block   Jun-07-09 11:12 PM   #109 
      I am trying to make a point of that!  Strong Atheist   Jun-07-09 11:51 PM   #115 
   Keep in mind dems are still trying to push it through the reconciliation process in the senate-need  bjobotts   Jun-07-09 05:05 PM   #74 
      reconciliation process only requires 50 votes to pass.  bjobotts   Jun-07-09 05:06 PM   #75 
      Good to know.  Ginny from the Block   Jun-07-09 11:14 PM   #110 
   I do believe so, yes.  That Is Quite Enough   Jun-07-09 01:07 PM   #31 
   At least the concepts of single-payer will have an open forum, hopefully....  dmosh42   Jun-07-09 08:27 AM   #3 
   Insurance companies are in charge  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 01:44 PM   #39 
      Well maybe someone will do a major sit in at the buidings of the largest insurers and  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 01:49 PM   #40 
      we need to impact Congress  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 02:04 PM   #42 
      sit in Offshore?  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 02:08 PM   #45 
      VERY Belated Welcome to DU!  Strong Atheist   Jun-07-09 04:06 PM   #67 
   Thanks for the heads-up  Fluffdaddy   Jun-07-09 08:36 AM   #4 
   A Webcast would most likely be available  BumRushDaShow   Jun-07-09 08:38 AM   #5 
   Thanks for that info.  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 11:49 AM   #23 
   The Progressives in the House are speaking out for comprehensive  MasonJar   Jun-07-09 08:46 AM   #6 
   George's email address link here and my letter (steal away)  jazzjunkysue   Jun-07-09 09:09 AM   #7 
   Thanks I sent a copy to my rep. even tho not on the committee. nm  rhett o rick   Jun-07-09 09:15 AM   #9 
   Thanks for the link.  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 11:58 AM   #27 
   Did you send a check with your request?  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 01:42 PM   #38 
      What are you, some kind of activism buzz kill personality?  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 01:52 PM   #41 
         a realist  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 02:06 PM   #44 
            Then you ought to pick your targets better. Complaining when they do what we want is stupid  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 02:19 PM   #49 
            prefer a real hearing with a real response  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 03:24 PM   #60 
            Inchoate bitterness is largely useless.  aquart   Jun-07-09 02:26 PM   #52 
               maybe you don't know Congress  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 03:23 PM   #59 
                  Organize, don't agonize!  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 03:57 PM   #62 
                     only money talks in DC  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 04:01 PM   #63 
                        People have pressured to get what they want.This will get people un-elected fast  bjobotts   Jun-07-09 05:08 PM   #77 
                           They just can't get away with continuously.Too big and Too broken to go on.  bjobotts   Jun-07-09 05:09 PM   #78 
                              Too obvious that reps who oppose are being bought cause people want it, would succeed  bjobotts   Jun-07-09 05:10 PM   #80 
                                 and has become the only "real" reform we badly need.Just keep the pressure on  bjobotts   Jun-07-09 05:11 PM   #81 
                                    They can no longer justify not doing it. It has become the only viable option  bjobotts   Jun-07-09 05:14 PM   #83 
                                       not in the minds of reps whose campaigns are funded by insurance companies  tooeyeten   Jun-08-09 08:10 AM   #129 
   Rec. and thanks for this post. We should send email to all Demo committee members. nm  rhett o rick   Jun-07-09 09:16 AM   #10 
   Yes!  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 11:51 AM   #25 
   All I'm hoping for is a foot in the door.  PFunk   Jun-07-09 09:17 AM   #11 
   It should be the MEDICARE FOR ALL hearings . . .  defendandprotect   Jun-07-09 09:32 AM   #12 
   Different from single prayer  Blandocyte   Jun-07-09 09:42 AM   #13 
   VERy Belated Welcome to DU!  Strong Atheist   Jun-07-09 04:09 PM   #69 
   That witness list is crucial to see.  dixiegrrrrl   Jun-07-09 09:45 AM   #14 
   Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-07-09 10:26 AM   #15 
   Why is there an insurance company in the witness list? And faith-based proponents?  valerief   Jun-07-09 10:37 AM   #16 
   Because the sole purpose of our health care system  jtrockville   Jun-07-09 11:25 AM   #19 
   Where did you find that. on the website of the committee it says "witnesses to be announced"  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 11:56 AM   #26 
      I got it off the OP's edlabor link. But that was yesterday. I see the witnesses are gone now. nt  valerief   Jun-07-09 11:26 PM   #112 
      That list is from an earlier hearing. April 23rd.  stlsaxman   Jun-08-09 06:38 AM   #126 
   K&R Glad to hear this as it gives me 'some' hope.  snappyturtle   Jun-07-09 10:57 AM   #18 
   Just one day? Hmmmmm. nt  Honeycombe8   Jun-07-09 11:32 AM   #21 
   great news!  barbtries   Jun-07-09 11:49 AM   #24 
   Hijacking Max Baucus' pet issue to save U.S..  DCKit   Jun-07-09 01:13 PM   #32 
   If by some unlikely miracle Big Insurance Loses, they will undoubtedly  NorthCarolina   Jun-07-09 08:20 PM   #102 
   Seriously,  Cherchez la Femme   Jun-07-09 01:28 PM   #35 
   Why, the chances of America electing a black man president are about as good, wouldn't you say?  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 01:41 PM   #37 
   No, I wouldn't say. Not at all.  Cherchez la Femme   Jun-07-09 02:11 PM   #47 
      If you aren't in the mood, then you shouldn't be making  Cleita   Jun-07-09 02:26 PM   #53 
         being heard is not the goal  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 03:31 PM   #61 
   I'm guessing you don't want it enough to actually DO SOMETHING, huh?  stlsaxman   Jun-08-09 06:49 AM   #127 
   Wonderful! There's movement in a promising committee!  nightrain   Jun-07-09 01:35 PM   #36 
   Thanks for the heads up. Would be interesting to watch.  JimWis   Jun-07-09 02:05 PM   #43 
   WooHoo. This is good news! I hope they invite the PNHP doctors and  Cleita   Jun-07-09 02:19 PM   #50 
   Yep. Senator "Let George do It!" Baucus  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 04:07 PM   #68 
   Good news  varelse   Jun-07-09 02:53 PM   #57 
   I just sent this link to my congressman  zalinda   Jun-07-09 03:02 PM   #58 
   http://hr676.org/  handmade34   Jun-07-09 04:03 PM   #64 
   The taxes in this bill might be unpopular  andym   Jun-07-09 04:20 PM   #70 
   I would like to think that people will grow up  handmade34   Jun-07-09 04:59 PM   #71 
   This is actually an excellent deal  DatManFromNawlins   Jun-07-09 11:02 PM   #107 
   Employers would like it, because if they insure they are paying for more now,  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 05:00 PM   #72 
   Of course it would benefit people in the end  andym   Jun-07-09 06:58 PM   #93 
      How about a 50% drop in basic car insurance? Easy and clear enough?  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 07:05 PM   #94 
         No, it is not clear enough  andym   Jun-07-09 07:46 PM   #99 
            A careful parsing of the post would indicate that the poster might be saying...  clixtox   Jun-08-09 03:30 AM   #120 
   The payroll tax doesn't bother me. It's probably the most efficient way to  Cleita   Jun-07-09 07:06 PM   #95 
   How stupid would you have to be to prefer a $450/mo "premium"  eridani   Jun-08-09 04:57 AM   #123 
   The capitation based salaries need to go.  Ms. Toad   Jun-09-09 02:08 PM   #159 
   yes!  HOLOS   Jun-07-09 05:04 PM   #73 
   Call your representatives now!  gorfle   Jun-07-09 05:07 PM   #76 
   This needs to be more than just a hearing.  Brigid   Jun-07-09 05:13 PM   #82 
   we need more than a hearing  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 06:35 PM   #88 
   Do you know the first step of getting a bill passed in the House of Representives?  John Q. Citizen   Jun-07-09 06:51 PM   #92 
   Will the repugs along with their blue dog bffs try to sabotage this?  Kingofalldems   Jun-07-09 05:49 PM   #86 
   count on blue dog sabotage  tooeyeten   Jun-07-09 06:37 PM   #89 
   K&R  Wednesdays   Jun-07-09 06:03 PM   #87 
   Essential  Loge23   Jun-07-09 07:20 PM   #97 
   GOOD  Taverner   Jun-07-09 07:54 PM   #100 
   I will call Obama & ask he publicly advocates for the bill (again) & my great congressman (Lewis)Etc  grahamhgreen   Jun-07-09 08:02 PM   #101 
   knr nt  slipslidingaway   Jun-07-09 11:48 PM   #113 
   K&R  New Dawn   Jun-07-09 11:50 PM   #114 
   Well, isn't that "special"  Mind_your_head   Jun-08-09 03:22 AM   #119 
   Wish in one hand, then. but- DO SOMETHING with the other.  stlsaxman   Jun-08-09 07:03 AM   #128 
   k*r Great news  autorank   Jun-08-09 03:38 AM   #121 
   keeping it kicked  stlsaxman   Jun-08-09 06:06 AM   #124 
   Kick for single payer!  Raster   Jun-08-09 08:41 AM   #130 
   They are still deciding  annm4peace   Jun-08-09 09:22 AM   #131 
   We lived un the UK where our National Health Service assigned  24601   Jun-08-09 09:57 AM   #132 
   Just called C-Span they will decide by tomorrow night whether to  slipslidingaway   Jun-08-09 11:17 AM   #134 
   Thanks for this info!  Omar4Dems   Jun-08-09 03:54 PM   #142 
   Kick. nt  raccoon   Jun-09-09 09:29 AM   #155 
   hearing has started, webcast link on top right...  slipslidingaway   Jun-10-09 11:27 AM   #160 
 

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