John Q. Citizen
(1000+ posts)
|
Sun Jun-07-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
| 33. Everyone i know working for a public option actually would prefer single payer. |
 |
In fact, the proponents have said repeatedly it is a stepping stone to single payer.
So why not just pass a single payer system? Since that's what both the public option people want and the single payer people want?
Any public option plan that functions like you or I would want it to function is unacceptable to the health care industrial complex. And just as unacceptable as a single payer system.
So there is zero political advantage to a public option over a single payer system. In fact it would be harder to pass since a lot of people who favor single payer don't want a public option system
Then their is the question of cost. We already have tons of evidence that single payer contains costs quite effectively while insuring quality care for all with complete choice of care provider. It's portable, it's easy, both for the care provider and for the patient.
The public option will raise costs significantly. It will require widespread and constant means testing to determine who is eligible for government subsidies and who isn't and how much subsidies someone is eligible for.
For example, the cost of administering Medicade is about 5% higher than the cost of administering Medicare, since virtually everyone is eligible for Medicare when they turn 65. There is no means testing, so it's much cheaper to do. With Medicade, the applicant has to go down to the county and fill out reams of paper work documenting their income, and if the income changes they have to update that in a timely fashion. And a case worker has to review and document the incomes and then has to determine what benefit the recipient gets. It's expensive, it's time consuming, if a mistake is made the recipient has to pay back any over benefits accidentally dispersed. The state has to follow up and collect.
Also, remember what happened as soon as the Medicare part D (drug benefit) went into effect and the government subsidized big pharma? Drug prices took a big jump. And why not? Free money for big pharma. The same will happen with private insurance.
Cost is why we are where we are today. If health care weren't too expensive no one would be debating anything.
But cost is why so many people are uninsured and under insured.
It's why there are less people covered by private insurance today than a year ago, and why a year ago there were less people covered by private insurance than a year before that.
The public option is actually a bail out for private insurance companies.
Why not demand what we want and what we know works to cover everyone and to bring down costs? Anything else is just screwing around.
|
US House To Hold Hearings On Single Payer Health Care |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 06:38 AM |
#0 |

Is this just a hearing to say "they had a hearing?" |
Political Heretic |
Jun-07-09 07:00 AM |
#1 |
 
Nope. George Miller is a co-sponsor of The Medicare for All Act. This is how any bill gets passed. |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 07:20 AM |
#2 |
  
That's just a long way of saying we're not going to get health care reform |
Political Heretic |
Jun-07-09 09:09 AM |
#8 |
   
No, it's a way of saying that power never concedes power with out demands placed on it. No one |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 11:45 AM |
#22 |
    
Hear, hear! |
knixphan |
Jun-07-09 12:15 PM |
#28 |
    
Yes, FDR's "Make me do it." |
jwirr |
Jun-07-09 01:26 PM |
#34 |
    
Good - and what actions are you taking? |
Matariki |
Jun-09-09 11:34 AM |
#156 |
   
50000000 single payer Fans Can't Be Wrong! |
sasquuatch55 |
Jun-07-09 05:38 PM |
#85 |
  
A public option won't become a dumping ground if .... |
YewNork |
Jun-07-09 12:39 PM |
#29 |
   
Everyone i know working for a public option actually would prefer single payer. |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 01:16 PM |
#33 |
    
Please add this very educational post to your journal. |
clear eye |
Jun-07-09 02:11 PM |
#46 |
     
Thanks for the suggestion; I'll do that. |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 02:29 PM |
#54 |
    
You make some great points, but... |
John K |
Jun-07-09 02:13 PM |
#48 |
     
they are using it anyway; Have you seen the adds? And since a single payer |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 02:39 PM |
#56 |
      
There's a lot more possibility of getting the public to agree to a public plan |
YewNork |
Jun-07-09 05:09 PM |
#79 |
     
Their is a lot less possibility of getting the public to agree to a public private hybrid |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 06:37 PM |
#90 |
     
Bzzzzst. You guess wrong.. |
YewNork |
Jun-07-09 09:16 PM |
#104 |
     
Self-delete |
clear eye |
Jun-08-09 02:33 AM |
#117 |
     
The last polls done show 60% |
clear eye |
Jun-08-09 02:35 AM |
#118 |
     
I think Yew means that I was wrong in gusessing that |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 12:33 PM |
#137 |
     
Ding! |
YewNork |
Jun-08-09 03:14 PM |
#140 |
     
Have you seen the Sanders bill? I ask because I agree that the health care |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 03:52 PM |
#141 |
     
Yes, Saskatchewan was the first province to implement single payer. |
YewNork |
Jun-08-09 10:13 PM |
#151 |
     
The California legislature has passed it twice but arnold vetoed it. The AMA is a shadow of |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 11:36 PM |
#152 |
     
Regardless of what is implemented, public plan or single payer - one thing that will be needed is |
YewNork |
Jun-09-09 07:13 AM |
#154 |
     
Not really, as many Democratic Congresses have learned, repealing |
Greyhound |
Jun-08-09 04:19 AM |
#122 |
    
Excellent point. Also elimination of multiple payers... |
clear eye |
Jun-07-09 02:22 PM |
#51 |
    
Ya know, I am sick to death about "costs" for single payer: |
howmad1 |
Jun-07-09 08:32 PM |
#103 |
   
Welcome to DU! |
Strong Atheist |
Jun-07-09 04:05 PM |
#65 |
  
I think George Miller is a progressive Democrat who will pull strongly for single payer health |
avaistheone1 |
Jun-07-09 12:53 PM |
#30 |
  
Kennedy's proposed bill doesn't permit it. |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-07-09 05:16 PM |
#84 |
   
Neither does single payer. No guareentees it will get through intact, but as |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 06:45 PM |
#91 |
  
No argument from me there - |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-07-09 07:15 PM |
#96 |
  
I would prefere it too. |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 07:33 PM |
#98 |
  
Actually, as it is defined in the Kennedy bill |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-07-09 09:19 PM |
#105 |
  
Yes, the other problem is affordabilty. We know single payer contains costs and |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 11:15 PM |
#111 |
  
And I agree with what you want - |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 11:07 AM |
#133 |
  
There's the Sanders Bill in the Senate, it's campanion in the house and |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 12:31 PM |
#136 |
  
Do you have a link to the bill |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 01:34 PM |
#138 |
   
That isn't the Sanders Bill. |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 04:18 PM |
#144 |
  
You're right - I just followed the two links you provided |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 04:52 PM |
#145 |
  
The state would use other monies as well, since states kick in considerable amounts as it is |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 05:14 PM |
#146 |
  
Unfortunately, |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 07:12 PM |
#147 |
  
California has passed single payer twice, The Gov hasn't signed it. One thing |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 08:14 PM |
#148 |
  
Basis for premiums |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 09:05 PM |
#150 |
  
Now that I have taken a quick scan of Sanders' Bill |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 02:18 PM |
#139 |
  
This is what I was refering to |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-08-09 04:11 PM |
#143 |
  
Note: The analysis of the above was the Conyers bill |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-09-09 01:54 PM |
#157 |
  
K & R!!! How Does One Get In Touch W/ Miller? |
DaLittle Kitty |
Jun-07-09 10:44 PM |
#106 |
 
call YOUR representative, make him/her aware of the hearing. |
stlsaxman |
Jun-08-09 06:26 AM |
#125 |
 
My Rep Is A Right Wing Fascist Moron! Ginny Brown-Waite Puppet Of Insurance Extraordinaire! |
DaLittle Kitty |
Jun-08-09 11:30 AM |
#135 |
 
Sorry to hear that... call anyone that'll listen. |
stlsaxman |
Jun-08-09 08:46 PM |
#149 |
 
This gives me confidence on the House side, but we've GOT to get it out of the Senate too...... |
Ginny from the Block |
Jun-07-09 10:42 AM |
#17 |
  
Yes, the problem is almost always in the House of Lords. |
RUMMYisFROSTED |
Jun-07-09 11:28 AM |
#20 |
  
Public employees are already insured |
clear eye |
Jun-07-09 02:33 PM |
#55 |
   
But not for long with double digit cost increases.......... |
Ginny from the Block |
Jun-07-09 11:11 PM |
#108 |
    
I'm one of the strongest proponents of H.R 676 |
clear eye |
Jun-08-09 02:19 AM |
#116 |
   
Public employees don't have a public plan, they have private insurance paid for with public dollars! |
Ginny from the Block |
Jun-09-09 01:50 AM |
#153 |
   
Kennedy's public option has sliding scale premiums |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-09-09 01:57 PM |
#158 |
  
Welcome to DU! |
Strong Atheist |
Jun-07-09 04:05 PM |
#66 |
   
Thanks! It's nice to be noticed! |
Ginny from the Block |
Jun-07-09 11:12 PM |
#109 |
  
I am trying to make a point of that! |
Strong Atheist |
Jun-07-09 11:51 PM |
#115 |
  
Keep in mind dems are still trying to push it through the reconciliation process in the senate-need |
bjobotts |
Jun-07-09 05:05 PM |
#74 |
 
reconciliation process only requires 50 votes to pass. |
bjobotts |
Jun-07-09 05:06 PM |
#75 |
 
Good to know. |
Ginny from the Block |
Jun-07-09 11:14 PM |
#110 |
 
I do believe so, yes. |
That Is Quite Enough |
Jun-07-09 01:07 PM |
#31 |

At least the concepts of single-payer will have an open forum, hopefully.... |
dmosh42 |
Jun-07-09 08:27 AM |
#3 |
 
Insurance companies are in charge |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 01:44 PM |
#39 |

Well maybe someone will do a major sit in at the buidings of the largest insurers and |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 01:49 PM |
#40 |
 
we need to impact Congress |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 02:04 PM |
#42 |
 
sit in Offshore? |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 02:08 PM |
#45 |

VERY Belated Welcome to DU! |
Strong Atheist |
Jun-07-09 04:06 PM |
#67 |

Thanks for the heads-up |
Fluffdaddy |
Jun-07-09 08:36 AM |
#4 |

A Webcast would most likely be available |
BumRushDaShow |
Jun-07-09 08:38 AM |
#5 |
 
Thanks for that info. |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 11:49 AM |
#23 |

The Progressives in the House are speaking out for comprehensive |
MasonJar |
Jun-07-09 08:46 AM |
#6 |

George's email address link here and my letter (steal away) |
jazzjunkysue |
Jun-07-09 09:09 AM |
#7 |
 
Thanks I sent a copy to my rep. even tho not on the committee. nm |
rhett o rick |
Jun-07-09 09:15 AM |
#9 |
 
Thanks for the link. |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 11:58 AM |
#27 |
 
Did you send a check with your request? |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 01:42 PM |
#38 |

What are you, some kind of activism buzz kill personality? |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 01:52 PM |
#41 |

a realist |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 02:06 PM |
#44 |

Then you ought to pick your targets better. Complaining when they do what we want is stupid |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 02:19 PM |
#49 |
 
prefer a real hearing with a real response |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 03:24 PM |
#60 |

Inchoate bitterness is largely useless. |
aquart |
Jun-07-09 02:26 PM |
#52 |

maybe you don't know Congress |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 03:23 PM |
#59 |

Organize, don't agonize! |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 03:57 PM |
#62 |

only money talks in DC |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 04:01 PM |
#63 |

People have pressured to get what they want.This will get people un-elected fast |
bjobotts |
Jun-07-09 05:08 PM |
#77 |

They just can't get away with continuously.Too big and Too broken to go on. |
bjobotts |
Jun-07-09 05:09 PM |
#78 |

Too obvious that reps who oppose are being bought cause people want it, would succeed |
bjobotts |
Jun-07-09 05:10 PM |
#80 |

and has become the only "real" reform we badly need.Just keep the pressure on |
bjobotts |
Jun-07-09 05:11 PM |
#81 |

They can no longer justify not doing it. It has become the only viable option |
bjobotts |
Jun-07-09 05:14 PM |
#83 |

not in the minds of reps whose campaigns are funded by insurance companies |
tooeyeten |
Jun-08-09 08:10 AM |
#129 |

Rec. and thanks for this post. We should send email to all Demo committee members. nm |
rhett o rick |
Jun-07-09 09:16 AM |
#10 |
 
Yes! |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 11:51 AM |
#25 |

All I'm hoping for is a foot in the door. |
PFunk |
Jun-07-09 09:17 AM |
#11 |

It should be the MEDICARE FOR ALL hearings . . . |
defendandprotect |
Jun-07-09 09:32 AM |
#12 |

Different from single prayer |
Blandocyte |
Jun-07-09 09:42 AM |
#13 |
 
VERy Belated Welcome to DU! |
Strong Atheist |
Jun-07-09 04:09 PM |
#69 |

That witness list is crucial to see. |
dixiegrrrrl |
Jun-07-09 09:45 AM |
#14 |

Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jun-07-09 10:26 AM |
#15 |

Why is there an insurance company in the witness list? And faith-based proponents? |
valerief |
Jun-07-09 10:37 AM |
#16 |
 
Because the sole purpose of our health care system |
jtrockville |
Jun-07-09 11:25 AM |
#19 |
 
Where did you find that. on the website of the committee it says "witnesses to be announced" |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 11:56 AM |
#26 |

I got it off the OP's edlabor link. But that was yesterday. I see the witnesses are gone now. nt |
valerief |
Jun-07-09 11:26 PM |
#112 |

That list is from an earlier hearing. April 23rd. |
stlsaxman |
Jun-08-09 06:38 AM |
#126 |

K&R Glad to hear this as it gives me 'some' hope. |
snappyturtle |
Jun-07-09 10:57 AM |
#18 |

Just one day? Hmmmmm. nt |
Honeycombe8 |
Jun-07-09 11:32 AM |
#21 |

great news! |
barbtries |
Jun-07-09 11:49 AM |
#24 |

Hijacking Max Baucus' pet issue to save U.S.. |
DCKit |
Jun-07-09 01:13 PM |
#32 |
 
If by some unlikely miracle Big Insurance Loses, they will undoubtedly |
NorthCarolina |
Jun-07-09 08:20 PM |
#102 |

Seriously, |
Cherchez la Femme |
Jun-07-09 01:28 PM |
#35 |
 
Why, the chances of America electing a black man president are about as good, wouldn't you say? |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 01:41 PM |
#37 |
  
No, I wouldn't say. Not at all. |
Cherchez la Femme |
Jun-07-09 02:11 PM |
#47 |
 
If you aren't in the mood, then you shouldn't be making |
Cleita |
Jun-07-09 02:26 PM |
#53 |
 
being heard is not the goal |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 03:31 PM |
#61 |
 
I'm guessing you don't want it enough to actually DO SOMETHING, huh? |
stlsaxman |
Jun-08-09 06:49 AM |
#127 |

Wonderful! There's movement in a promising committee! |
nightrain |
Jun-07-09 01:35 PM |
#36 |

Thanks for the heads up. Would be interesting to watch. |
JimWis |
Jun-07-09 02:05 PM |
#43 |

WooHoo. This is good news! I hope they invite the PNHP doctors and |
Cleita |
Jun-07-09 02:19 PM |
#50 |
 
Yep. Senator "Let George do It!" Baucus |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 04:07 PM |
#68 |

Good news |
varelse |
Jun-07-09 02:53 PM |
#57 |

I just sent this link to my congressman |
zalinda |
Jun-07-09 03:02 PM |
#58 |

http://hr676.org/ |
handmade34 |
Jun-07-09 04:03 PM |
#64 |
 
The taxes in this bill might be unpopular |
andym |
Jun-07-09 04:20 PM |
#70 |
  
I would like to think that people will grow up |
handmade34 |
Jun-07-09 04:59 PM |
#71 |
   
This is actually an excellent deal |
DatManFromNawlins |
Jun-07-09 11:02 PM |
#107 |
  
Employers would like it, because if they insure they are paying for more now, |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 05:00 PM |
#72 |
   
Of course it would benefit people in the end |
andym |
Jun-07-09 06:58 PM |
#93 |
  
How about a 50% drop in basic car insurance? Easy and clear enough? |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 07:05 PM |
#94 |
  
No, it is not clear enough |
andym |
Jun-07-09 07:46 PM |
#99 |
  
A careful parsing of the post would indicate that the poster might be saying... |
clixtox |
Jun-08-09 03:30 AM |
#120 |
  
The payroll tax doesn't bother me. It's probably the most efficient way to |
Cleita |
Jun-07-09 07:06 PM |
#95 |
  
How stupid would you have to be to prefer a $450/mo "premium" |
eridani |
Jun-08-09 04:57 AM |
#123 |
 
The capitation based salaries need to go. |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-09-09 02:08 PM |
#159 |

yes! |
HOLOS |
Jun-07-09 05:04 PM |
#73 |

Call your representatives now! |
gorfle |
Jun-07-09 05:07 PM |
#76 |

This needs to be more than just a hearing. |
Brigid |
Jun-07-09 05:13 PM |
#82 |
 
we need more than a hearing |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 06:35 PM |
#88 |
 
Do you know the first step of getting a bill passed in the House of Representives? |
John Q. Citizen |
Jun-07-09 06:51 PM |
#92 |

Will the repugs along with their blue dog bffs try to sabotage this? |
Kingofalldems |
Jun-07-09 05:49 PM |
#86 |
 
count on blue dog sabotage |
tooeyeten |
Jun-07-09 06:37 PM |
#89 |

K&R |
Wednesdays |
Jun-07-09 06:03 PM |
#87 |

Essential |
Loge23 |
Jun-07-09 07:20 PM |
#97 |

GOOD |
Taverner |
Jun-07-09 07:54 PM |
#100 |

I will call Obama & ask he publicly advocates for the bill (again) & my great congressman (Lewis)Etc |
grahamhgreen |
Jun-07-09 08:02 PM |
#101 |

knr nt |
slipslidingaway |
Jun-07-09 11:48 PM |
#113 |

K&R |
New Dawn |
Jun-07-09 11:50 PM |
#114 |

Well, isn't that "special" |
Mind_your_head |
Jun-08-09 03:22 AM |
#119 |
 
Wish in one hand, then. but- DO SOMETHING with the other. |
stlsaxman |
Jun-08-09 07:03 AM |
#128 |

k*r Great news |
autorank |
Jun-08-09 03:38 AM |
#121 |

keeping it kicked |
stlsaxman |
Jun-08-09 06:06 AM |
#124 |

Kick for single payer! |
Raster |
Jun-08-09 08:41 AM |
#130 |

They are still deciding |
annm4peace |
Jun-08-09 09:22 AM |
#131 |

We lived un the UK where our National Health Service assigned |
24601 |
Jun-08-09 09:57 AM |
#132 |

Just called C-Span they will decide by tomorrow night whether to |
slipslidingaway |
Jun-08-09 11:17 AM |
#134 |

Thanks for this info! |
Omar4Dems |
Jun-08-09 03:54 PM |
#142 |

Kick. nt |
raccoon |
Jun-09-09 09:29 AM |
#155 |

hearing has started, webcast link on top right... |
slipslidingaway |
Jun-10-09 11:27 AM |
#160 |