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Reply #76: The machineguns and rocket launchers being used by Mexican cartels [View All]

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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. The machineguns and rocket launchers being used by Mexican cartels
aren't coming from the USA, because they aren't available in the USA except to police and military. They are as tightly controlled here as howitzers and 500-lb bombs, by the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

I don't doubt that a considerable number of handguns are flowing south (which have nothing to do with an AWB), and there may be some non-automatic civilian rifles in the mix. But M16's, military AK-47's, and RPG's aren't coming from this country unless they are coming from the military, police, or their suppliers. Most probably come from Columbia, the detritus of decades of U.S.-Soviet proxy wars.

Want to help Mexico? Legalize cannabinoids at minimum and take the profit out of it. The cartels' disposable income is currently larger than the entire defense budget of most NATIONS, and that is squarely the result of Prohibition. (And I say that as a non drug user who used to be a convinced prohibitionist, but faced the facts.)

Good article on that subject:

Corporations or cartels? A choice of ink over blood
By Bill McClellan

One week after Edgar Millan Gomez was killed in Mexico City, Anheuser-Busch announced it was giving up the right to import Grolsch, a Dutch beer. "The time is right to end our importation," said David A. Peacock, vice president of marketing for Anheuser-Busch. Analysts said the announcement was no surprise. In February, London-based SABMiller, the parent of Miller Brewing, bought the Dutch brewery that makes Grolsch. So it made no sense for Anheuser-Busch to use its considerable muscle to import a beer that is now owned by its chief rival.

Perhaps you're wondering what that has to do with the death of Millan Gomez. He was Mexico's federal police chief, and he was gunned down outside of his home by assassins who are assumed to have been working for a drug cartel. The cartels have been targeting government officials because the government has been trying to crack down on the cartels. The government is making this effort because the violence between the cartels has gotten out of hand. Authorities estimate more than 2,500 people have been killed in the last year as the cartels have battled over the control of the cocaine traffic from South America to the U.S. In other words, importation and exportation rights.

There was a time when we had cartels fighting over the booze trade. Perhaps the most famous booze cartel leader was Al Capone. In 1929, some members of his cartel killed seven members of a cartel headed by Bugs Moran. That incident became known as the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. The dispute that led to the massacre had to do with importation rights from Detroit. The Capone cartel had the rights to whiskey from Detroit, but the Moran cartel had been hijacking some shipments. Largely because of incidents like that, the feds made a real effort to stamp out the booze cartels. But they couldn't. There was too much demand. People liked to drink. Call it a weakness, if you want, but as long as people wanted to buy booze, somebody was going to provide it. For a long time, it was guys like Capone and Moran. Eventually, law-abiding people got tired of the killing and the bribery. Prohibition was ended. In essence, we traded Al Capone for August Busch. So now, when there is a conflict about importation rights, we have an announcement from a vice president of marketing.


Because these drugs are flowing through Mexico, that country runs the risk of becoming a narco-state. The illicit drug trade creates such immense profits that public officials can be bought or assassinated. Plata o plomo. Silver or lead. Millan Gomez was the 10th federal police official to be murdered in the past two months. The week before he was killed, Roberto Velasco Bravo was killed. He was the head of the organized crime division in the public security ministry. Local police officials are being targeted, too. Earlier this year, the commander of public safety for Juarez was murdered, and before him, the police chief of Tecate was murdered. On and on it goes. It is always clear who gets the lead. It is not so clear who gets the silver.

(article continues)
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  -Pelosi tosses cold water on assault-weapon ban Renew Deal  Feb-26-09 12:23 PM   #0 
  - Yes!!!!!  cliffordu   Feb-26-09 12:41 PM   #1 
  - Good - Pelosi wants to keep the House in Democratic control  RamboLiberal   Feb-26-09 12:45 PM   #2 
  - Thank God  RedstDem   Feb-26-09 12:45 PM   #3 
  - This is one reason America is in the shape it's in. Too many guns.  Metta   Feb-26-09 12:49 PM   #4 
  - And Eric Holder just caused the number of guns in circulation to increase  slackmaster   Feb-26-09 01:18 PM   #8 
  - I'm gonna buy a couple more, right after I send the NRA a couple of grand.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Feb-26-09 09:49 PM   #75 
  - Exactly...but right wing needs a violent America to stay in power . . .  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 01:57 PM   #15 
  - .  fascisthunter   Feb-26-09 02:17 PM   #22 
  - Weird how you step over the border to Canada and the gun violence plummets. nt  Captain Hilts   Feb-26-09 02:27 PM   #25 
  - Or the border into New Hampshire. Funny, that. (n/t)  benEzra   Feb-26-09 06:02 PM   #52 
  - People are spread out in NH, they're densely populated in Toronto. nt  Captain Hilts   Feb-26-09 06:16 PM   #56 
  - How many people have been mistakenly shot for a deer. . .. ???!!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:33 PM   #67 
  - The neighborhood across I-805 from my home has about 30 times the crime as my area  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:45 AM   #151 
  - And the streets are Clean, women can carry Pocketbooks  One_Life_To_Give   Feb-27-09 10:41 AM   #103 
  - Yes,,,,  sendero   Feb-26-09 05:36 PM   #50 
  - Wow, you really are off in left field.  wartrace   Feb-26-09 07:28 PM   #60 
  - Truth of the matter is, one reason America is in the shape it's in is because Republicans win  Warren DeMontague   Feb-27-09 04:38 AM   #87 
  - Nobody is supporting taking away the ban  slackmaster   Mar-01-09 09:24 AM   #163 
  - My God, Nancy is finally starting to "get it"  derby378   Feb-26-09 12:51 PM   #5 
  - much as I think the gun crowd is wacko  DBoon   Feb-26-09 12:52 PM   #6 
  - Right . . the drug dealers who would be deprived of assault weapons probably vote . .. ?  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 01:59 PM   #16 
     - Please define assault weapon.  WriteDown   Feb-26-09 02:03 PM   #17 
     - I have an assault weapon hanging in the mantle of my fireplace.  Ikonoklast   Feb-26-09 03:08 PM   #35 
        - OK . . . give everyone one of those . . .!!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:34 PM   #68 
           - You understand that it can kill you just as dead as a fully automatic weapon?  Ikonoklast   Feb-26-09 09:24 PM   #72 
              - Yes -- one by one ---  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 09:31 PM   #73 
     - You think banning the sale of certain guns would keep drug dealers from getting them?!?  FudaFuda   Feb-26-09 02:09 PM   #19 
     - We need to ban the manufacture of these weapons . . .!!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 02:34 PM   #28 
        - *crickets*  FudaFuda   Feb-26-09 03:19 PM   #37 
        - Seems tough..  WriteDown   Feb-26-09 04:19 PM   #41 
        - There are over 100 million...  Lagomorph   Feb-26-09 04:46 PM   #46 
        - not only that  guitar man   Feb-26-09 05:00 PM   #47 
        - I guess David Koresh didn't think of that . . . !!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:09 PM   #62 
        - Fucking little kids was his issue...  Pavulon   Feb-26-09 10:41 PM   #82 
           - I think you're missing the point, that an armed government doesn't like  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 12:59 PM   #105 
              - There are lots of people who own massive  Pavulon   Feb-27-09 01:09 PM   #110 
                 - They are usually right-wing domestic militia ....  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 01:23 PM   #115 
                    - Targeting people for stupid laws..  Pavulon   Feb-27-09 01:34 PM   #118 
        - Ahh, the beautiful art....  boilinmad   Feb-27-09 09:21 AM   #102 
        - Hey, the CIA can't find it's AK-47's . . . but when we find them we can still burn them...!!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:07 PM   #61 
           - I can PM you the STEP code  Pavulon   Feb-26-09 10:35 PM   #80 
              - Evidently Mexico hasn't figured this out --- we're arming their drug dealers!!  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 01:00 PM   #106 
                 - No they will not admit THEY ARE  Pavulon   Feb-27-09 01:08 PM   #108 
                    - And what is the CIA giving them . . . ?  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 01:19 PM   #114 
                       - CIA generally gives Russian  Pavulon   Feb-27-09 01:29 PM   #116 
                          - Hey, maybe the CIA is making weapons . . . stamping them "Cuba" ......?  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 01:33 PM   #117 
                             - It would take me and two guys  Pavulon   Feb-27-09 01:38 PM   #119 
        - Bravo!!!...  boilinmad   Feb-27-09 09:20 AM   #101 
        - Then don't own any.  benEzra   Feb-27-09 06:24 PM   #135 
        - I don't believe you are clear on the concept of what it takes to manufacture "these weapons"  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:26 AM   #145 
     - Drug dealers primarily use handguns, not small-caliber rifles with handgrips that stick out.  benEzra   Feb-26-09 06:09 PM   #54 
        - ..whatever Mexican drug dealers need, we seem to be the suppliers .....!!!  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 01:01 PM   #107 
           - Yep, Direct from COLT, FN, and others on letterhead  Pavulon   Feb-27-09 01:11 PM   #111 
           - OK, show me where in the USA you can stroll in and legally buy quantities of RPG's  benEzra   Feb-28-09 08:19 AM   #144 
  - I wouldn't mind the ban...  frog92969   Feb-26-09 01:15 PM   #7 
  - I understand Obama's thinking and the sentiment on this but..  MessiahRp   Feb-26-09 01:18 PM   #9 
  - This came from Holder, not Obama.  Renew Deal   Feb-26-09 01:27 PM   #11 
     - Well in that case, Holder's opinion is his own...  MessiahRp   Feb-26-09 02:15 PM   #21 
  - Praise be to Polosi  IDFbunny   Feb-26-09 01:19 PM   #10 
  - Consider the trial balloon popped, for now.  FudaFuda   Feb-26-09 01:34 PM   #12 
  - ....because hunters need assault weapons . . . !!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 01:54 PM   #13 
  - Please see post 17. nt  WriteDown   Feb-26-09 02:03 PM   #18 
  - Bambi can only be brought down by a rifle mounted rocket launcher.  onehandle   Feb-26-09 03:21 PM   #38 
  - Today's deer aren't like the ones you smoked in the 60's.  FudaFuda   Feb-26-09 03:23 PM   #39 
  - I don't know if you've ever heard this story about LBJ and "deer" . . .  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:12 PM   #63 
  - Hunters are irrelevant. Target shooters use "assault weapons"...  benEzra   Feb-26-09 06:16 PM   #55 
     - Bet JFK wouldn't if he could see the GOP/NRA violent America today . . .  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:19 PM   #64 
        - Per capita rifle homicide is roughly the same now as it was in 1961.  benEzra   Feb-26-09 09:12 PM   #69 
           - 'US IS A VAST ARMS BAZAAR FOR MEXICAN CARTELS . . ." NY Times  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 09:23 PM   #71 
              - The machineguns and rocket launchers being used by Mexican cartels  benEzra   Feb-26-09 09:49 PM   #76 
                 - For all we know . . .  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 01:14 PM   #112 
                    - A lot of those guns probably WERE supplied by the CIA or KGB, during the 1970's and 1980's  benEzra   Feb-27-09 06:24 PM   #134 
  - Holder is quickly becoming Obama's Andrew Young  depakid   Feb-26-09 01:55 PM   #14 
  - ouch. Shoe fits, though. n/t  FudaFuda   Feb-26-09 02:14 PM   #20 
  - I agree and at light speed as well.  Lost in CT   Feb-26-09 04:13 PM   #40 
  - In a weak defense I would just say  BootinUp   Feb-26-09 02:27 PM   #24 
     - Agreed- yet these shooting from the hip type statements seem to be becoming a pattern  depakid   Feb-26-09 02:36 PM   #29 
  - If we eliminate guns as a wedge issue, would that leave only choice, gay rights and  No Elephants   Feb-26-09 02:25 PM   #23 
  - Don't forget the all time favorite  arikara   Feb-26-09 02:29 PM   #26 
     - IMO, only a relatively small number of voters oppose tax cuts for the wealthy, but that  No Elephants   Feb-26-09 02:40 PM   #31 
        - I think you're wrong . . . Americans understand that issue quite well, IMO . . .!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:22 PM   #65 
  - Thank you. I love my weapons.  Titonwan   Feb-26-09 02:33 PM   #27 
  - This is good news.  Brucie Kibbutz   Feb-26-09 02:36 PM   #30 
  - I'm all for tougher gun control  AyanEva   Feb-26-09 02:45 PM   #32 
  - The second amendment doesn't serve any purpose, unless you're naive enough ...  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 01:17 PM   #113 
     - The gun confiscations in New Orleans were illegal  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:28 AM   #146 
        - So is the war in Iraq . . .  defendandprotect   Feb-28-09 11:45 PM   #159 
  - Good call by Pelosi  appal_jack   Feb-26-09 02:57 PM   #33 
  - When I first heard of this I knew there wasn't a hope in hell that it would pass in Congress.  Purveyor   Feb-26-09 02:57 PM   #34 
  - Good! It's time Dems got in line with the rest of the country on this issue.  ACTION BASTARD   Feb-26-09 03:15 PM   #36 
  - Doesn't everyone need an assault weapon?  Vinca   Feb-26-09 04:22 PM   #42 
  - No  slackmaster   Feb-26-09 04:38 PM   #45 
  - That kid murdered with a plain old "youth" shotgun  RamboLiberal   Feb-26-09 05:12 PM   #48 
  - I'm aware of that. Think of how many more he could have taken  Vinca   Feb-27-09 06:36 AM   #90 
     - "Assault weapons" fire exactly once when the trigger is pulled,  benEzra   Feb-27-09 01:08 PM   #109 
  - Everyone needs fewer Republicans getting elected.  Brucie Kibbutz   Feb-26-09 05:27 PM   #49 
  - I don't trust the government to "decide" what guns I need  bluestateguy   Feb-27-09 04:58 AM   #88 
     - Oh Please....  depakid   Feb-28-09 03:02 PM   #156 
  - good!! nt  guitar man   Feb-26-09 04:30 PM   #43 
  - Good.  Doremus   Feb-26-09 04:30 PM   #44 
  - Ah, Nancy...  badgervan   Feb-26-09 05:58 PM   #51 
  - The most popular centerfire target rifles in America are used only to "mow down human beings"?  benEzra   Feb-26-09 06:05 PM   #53 
  - Answer....  badgervan   Feb-27-09 05:22 PM   #121 
  - Because every single one of those rifles would be banned as an "assault weapon" by H.R.1022...  benEzra   Feb-27-09 05:54 PM   #129 
  - Target rifle's?  TXRAT2   Feb-28-09 07:43 AM   #139 
     - No, this is the target rifle I was speaking of:  benEzra   Feb-28-09 07:50 AM   #141 
  - right, and handguns too!  Johnyawl   Feb-26-09 06:56 PM   #58 
  - Despite your opinion of what they are designed for,  Brucie Kibbutz   Feb-26-09 07:16 PM   #59 
  - Answer  badgervan   Feb-27-09 05:26 PM   #122 
     - I have no problem with the existing tight controls on full autos.  benEzra   Feb-27-09 06:06 PM   #132 
  - Agree . . . thanks for telling the truth -- !!!  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 08:31 PM   #66 
  - The truth?  benEzra   Feb-26-09 09:36 PM   #74 
     - Ah, "Girls Gone Wild," eh . . . guns are sexy . . . ???  defendandprotect   Feb-26-09 10:27 PM   #79 
     - To equate a female police officer with girls gone wild, congrats todays worst person in the world.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Feb-26-09 11:38 PM   #85 
     - Huh?  benEzra   Feb-27-09 07:08 AM   #91 
     - What a sexist attitude.  Lilith Velkor   Feb-27-09 08:09 AM   #95 
     - Nope...  badgervan   Feb-27-09 05:29 PM   #123 
     - No, all Title 1 "assault weapons" are NON-automatic  benEzra   Feb-27-09 06:05 PM   #131 
     - Fully automatic firearms have been strictly regulated since 1934  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:49 AM   #152 
     - You Make a False Equivalency....  badgervan   Feb-27-09 05:36 PM   #125 
        - No, the "assault weapon" issue is solely about non-automatic, NFA Title 1 civilian firearms.  benEzra   Feb-27-09 05:58 PM   #130 
        - We're Talking About Two Different Bills  badgervan   Feb-27-09 09:23 PM   #136 
        - There is no bill outlawing automatics  hack89   Feb-27-09 09:35 PM   #138 
        - Automatic weapons were restricted 75 years ago, under the National Firearms Act of 1934.  benEzra   Feb-28-09 08:12 AM   #143 
        - The Assault Weapons ban..  sendero   Feb-28-09 07:52 AM   #142 
        - Sorry I missed this one earlier - Thanks for proving without any doubt that you are misinformed  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:33 AM   #148 
  - assault weapons are designed, made, and used for one purpose only: to mow down human beings.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Feb-26-09 09:52 PM   #77 
  - Thanks  badgervan   Feb-27-09 05:46 PM   #126 
     - Who's talking about un-restricting automatic weapons?  benEzra   Feb-27-09 06:07 PM   #133 
  - Thank you. nt  Lorien   Feb-26-09 10:36 PM   #81 
  - Thank you --  defendandprotect   Feb-27-09 11:42 AM   #104 
  - Hmm, I wonder...  virginia mountainman   Feb-27-09 06:22 AM   #89 
  - Do You Equate....  badgervan   Feb-27-09 05:31 PM   #124 
     - Police ARE civilians, and (outside of SWAT) usually use civilian weapons.  benEzra   Feb-27-09 05:50 PM   #128 
        - HuH?  badgervan   Feb-27-09 09:29 PM   #137 
           - SWAT teams are generally organized along paramilitary lines...  benEzra   Feb-28-09 07:46 AM   #140 
  - No, "assault weapon" was an arbitrary category based on appearance, not function  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:30 AM   #147 
  - Good news indeed, and I was going to buy a Romanian AK  ileus   Feb-26-09 06:24 PM   #57 
  - Good  HarukaTheTrophyWife   Feb-26-09 09:18 PM   #70 
  - Good! Now the Rethugs can't make the "They'll take away your guns!" arguement.  Crowman1979   Feb-26-09 10:09 PM   #78 
  - Actually, even with Ms. Pelosi dousing the flames ...  FudaFuda   Feb-26-09 10:45 PM   #83 
  - Oh yes they can, they are, and it's working  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:35 AM   #149 
  - My Godess, are the Dems actually starting to get it?  OffWithTheirHeads   Feb-26-09 11:38 PM   #84 
  - Good  bluestateguy   Feb-27-09 04:29 AM   #86 
  - This person who grew up in a rural area says THANK GOD.  Odin2005   Feb-27-09 07:50 AM   #92 
  - Good for Nancy.  OnionPatch   Feb-27-09 08:01 AM   #93 
  - Well, I originally thought a statement like this by Holder had to be cleared  riverdeep   Feb-27-09 08:03 AM   #94 
  - Somebody needs to get a hold of Holder  Renew Deal   Feb-27-09 08:40 AM   #96 
     - I nominate Feingold, Tester, and Webb  derby378   Feb-27-09 08:47 AM   #97 
     - I'd like to hear that conversation.  -..__...   Feb-27-09 08:56 AM   #98 
        - Self delete.  -..__...   Feb-27-09 08:58 AM   #99 
  - This is certainly cheerful news.  -..__...   Feb-27-09 09:05 AM   #100 
  - American Hunters and Shooters Association tells Holder to back off  derby378   Feb-27-09 02:28 PM   #120 
  - Good. My opinion of AHSA just went up quite a bit.  benEzra   Feb-27-09 05:46 PM   #127 
  - Amazing, and I had written them off as a bunch of Elmer Fudds  slackmaster   Feb-28-09 08:36 AM   #150 
     - Helpful Definition For Real-Word Forum Types  Paladin   Feb-28-09 12:21 PM   #153 
        - No, just those who want everyone else's guns banned.  benEzra   Feb-28-09 02:57 PM   #154 
        - Great....  badgervan   Feb-28-09 10:23 PM   #157 
        - badgervan, I sincerely hope you have learned one thing in this thread  slackmaster   Mar-01-09 08:37 AM   #162 
           - I Did....  badgervan   Mar-01-09 10:44 PM   #164 
        - The funny thing about that is, every rifle used by "traditionalists" was also originally designed  slackmaster   Mar-01-09 08:36 AM   #161 
  - Senate Majority Leader Reid puts more kibosh on the "ban popular guns" talk...  benEzra   Feb-28-09 03:01 PM   #155 
  - Now THIS is something that should rightfully be kept OFF THE TABLE!  Proud Liberal Dem   Feb-28-09 10:46 PM   #158 
  - One of the first things she's done right. n/t  SlowDownFast   Mar-01-09 03:05 AM   #160 

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