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Reply #191: I think it is you who are confused [View All]

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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #189
191. I think it is you who are confused
Please provide facts and data for the positions you have taken in this subthread. You have spewed a lot of nonsense based on feeling not fact.

Here's a gem We did evolve to reproduce. The more so the better. How can you dispute this?
Can you define better? Who's life is better with increasing number of children? Nothing disingenuous about asking you to clarify your statements. This is your statement. I didn't make it up and I'm not putting these words in your mouth.

Evolution is about adaptation. Let the HS drop out spawn. His offspring will not adapt as well as the few children of the well educated, who are more likely to see that their kids are educated too, well fed, emotionally developed, and able to contribute as a knowledge worker to our society. Those who make poor decisions, are emotionally damaged or immature, or risk their health are not the people that will do well in the future,no matter how many of them there are. How is it that winning is defined by you simply in terms of numbers? How does the world win, if you leave double digit (18 kids) morons running around the planet. Quality is far better than quantity. Quality of life,of health, of opportunity... take your pick.

Let's review:
You began this subthread with a claim that to some people here, Pro-choice means Pro-abortion, even though no one mentioned abortion. You then morphed this into an accusation that people here were making decisions for this woman. Which was never the case. No matter how many times it was explained to you that there is a difference between making a decision for someone else and having an opinion, you went on about hypocrisy. No one here is talking about going to the supreme court to make decisions for this woman. No one here is suggesting a ballot proposition in which we all get to vote on her reproductive rights or even vote to eliminate her rights. People are expressing an opinion about a family on reality TV. These aren't the people down the street. These are people who hold up their lifestyle as a good thing. It is not a good thing. It is not a healthy practice to repeatedly have children with very little recovery time after each birth. Does it happen? Of course, but not usually 17 times. There are long term consequences to her choices, both to her body and her children's development. You then moved on to expressing some of your own feelings about evolution.

Your feelings about evolution could use some fact checking.
And having children isn't exactly unhealthy. Women have evolved to do that after all. <\i>
Since the main topic is about a woman who just delivered her 18th child, please show something scientific and fact-based that explains how women's bodies have changed and adapted to have double digit off spring, or clarify your statement.

When we were nomadic our diets were based on what we could find or what we could hunt. Not a lot of carbs. As a result, human fertility was slower than it is now. Women reproduced every few years. This was a result of diet and of circumstances. As nomads, it didn't make sense to have another child before the first one could walk or run. Carrying two would have decreased survival of mother and children.

As the idea of farming caught on our diets changed to include carbs which did improve our fertility. In an agri society, it also meant that having more children would increase the number of people working on the land. We adapted to that. Our world has changed. We are in a different revolution right now. The name of the game has always been adaptation. It's how people have done more than survived. It's how we've thrived. (The same holds true for business.) Those who are not educated, not able to make fact-based decisions, and do not continually learn, grow, change and adapt, will be left behind. Again it's the Quality vs. Quantity issue. Just creating warm bodies and putting children to work for the family is a very old idea and one we have outgrown. It does not serve us as a species right now nor will it in the future.

If you can pick up a copy of the 7 Daughters of Eve, it is worth reading. Very eye opening about genetics and evolution.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
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  -Arkansas mom Michelle Duggar gives birth to 18th child spotbird  Dec-18-08 09:12 PM   #0 
  - Their choice. I wish them well.  emilyg   Dec-18-08 09:15 PM   #1 
  - As do I  eggplant   Dec-18-08 10:27 PM   #11 
  - very well said  The Straight Story   Dec-19-08 12:23 AM   #26 
  - Me too  leftynyc   Dec-19-08 09:48 AM   #50 
  - As long as they can exploit their children for  itsrobert   Dec-25-08 05:41 PM   #193 
     - there is some talk in the loung and on yahoo that  GinaMaria   Dec-27-08 01:16 PM   #194 
  - I wish them infertility  Lorien   Dec-19-08 10:09 AM   #55 
  - Agreed nt  lligrd   Dec-19-08 01:51 PM   #75 
  - 18 is crazy  Wabbajack_   Dec-19-08 07:05 PM   #84 
  - So much judgementalism, so little progressiveism.  Veganistan   Dec-22-08 12:39 AM   #119 
     - If you do it 18 times.  superconnected   Dec-23-08 12:29 AM   #150 
  - I don't wish them ill, but I sure as hell wish they would cease operating an Evangelical puppy mill  KzooDem   Dec-20-08 10:33 AM   #102 
  - That's 162 months, or 13.5 years of being pregnant. UGH!!!!!  Sparky 1   Dec-22-08 08:43 PM   #145 
  - Those people need professional help  FreakinDJ   Dec-18-08 09:16 PM   #2 
  - They have professionals filming their absurdity.  spotbird   Dec-18-08 09:19 PM   #3 
     - You get back what you give.  DiktatrW   Dec-18-08 10:39 PM   #13 
     - I have a problem with this family but not for the reasons given here  Scairp   Dec-25-08 04:24 AM   #186 
  - Well...  The_Commonist   Dec-18-08 09:26 PM   #4 
  - They are cute kids  spotbird   Dec-18-08 09:29 PM   #5 
  - That's hillarious!  smiley   Dec-18-08 09:59 PM   #7 
  - I'm still laughing!  tan guera   Dec-20-08 03:29 AM   #93 
  - Ya done beat me to it.  Alter Ego   Dec-22-08 11:38 AM   #130 
  - God I may laugh for a week. HAHAHA n/t  scytherius   Dec-23-08 12:28 PM   #160 
  - Hurry! Hurry! Hurry!  BecauseBushSaysSo   Dec-18-08 09:40 PM   #6 
  - Reminds me of an old Groucho Marx joke  rambler_american   Dec-18-08 10:07 PM   #8 
  - That's a good one!  Digit   Dec-18-08 10:17 PM   #10 
  - I knew a woman who had about 12...  InvisibleTouch   Dec-18-08 10:16 PM   #9 
  - My OB/GYN said that it takes a woman 2 yrs for her body  woodsprite   Dec-18-08 10:37 PM   #12 
  - Yup - pregnancy is hard on a body.  InvisibleTouch   Dec-18-08 10:50 PM   #14 
  - For that matter, sex itself is hard on a body  marshall   Dec-24-08 12:20 PM   #173 
  - And my OB/GYN cautioned against too many pregnancies  hamsterjill   Dec-18-08 11:34 PM   #18 
  - It's really great that you have this paranormal insight into the hearts of the Duggars.  Veganistan   Dec-18-08 11:49 PM   #22 
     - Paranormal?  izquierdista   Dec-19-08 12:30 AM   #27 
     - HaHA!!  hawkowl88   Dec-21-08 01:42 AM   #105 
     - It's not that hard to see what's going on here!  hamsterjill   Dec-19-08 08:57 AM   #44 
        - Every woman in America should have the freedom to be birthin' as many babies as she can afford  marshall   Dec-19-08 09:23 AM   #47 
           - As many as she can afford?  GinaMaria   Dec-19-08 12:48 PM   #65 
           - Afford means more than just money  marshall   Dec-19-08 01:43 PM   #72 
              - Your use of the word 'should' implies  GinaMaria   Dec-19-08 09:36 PM   #88 
                 - My "mandate" applies to the freedom, not the action  marshall   Dec-20-08 07:25 AM   #94 
                 - Thanks for clarifying.  GinaMaria   Dec-20-08 12:29 PM   #103 
                 - Oh no...the hair splitters strike again.  Sex Pistol   Dec-20-08 09:21 AM   #97 
           - so, people who are too poor should not have that same freedom?  fascisthunter   Dec-19-08 12:58 PM   #67 
           - Why America? Why not extend that to all countries and finish the planet faster?  superconnected   Dec-19-08 01:49 PM   #74 
           - Other countries define freedom of choice differently  marshall   Dec-19-08 03:19 PM   #79 
           - I can't agree with that. Overpopulation is a problem.  LisaM   Dec-24-08 12:38 PM   #174 
  - my mum had three babies in 22 months  Skittles   Dec-22-08 12:51 AM   #120 
  - What is the likelihood this woman would had survive after that many births...  LiberalFighter   Dec-18-08 10:53 PM   #15 
     - It was about 50/50 back then, so not very likely.  newscott   Dec-19-08 03:36 PM   #80 
  - A C Section?  MilesColtrane   Dec-18-08 11:11 PM   #16 
  - I wonder if she has had other c sections? It is possible for  Ilsa   Dec-18-08 11:18 PM   #17 
  - MOST hospitals still sadly have the policy of once a C section, always a C section.  Veganistan   Dec-18-08 11:40 PM   #21 
  - Did they suture in a zipper for next September?  Thor_MN   Dec-19-08 06:21 AM   #31 
  - Only need a few more and they'll just have to ...  Nihil   Dec-19-08 06:52 AM   #34 
  - Some went with V-backs, but changed later. Some docs might allow  Ilsa   Dec-19-08 07:20 PM   #87 
  - Her third n/t  kirby   Dec-19-08 12:02 AM   #24 
  - Yes she had other C-sections. Child #15 was born by a C-section,  lizzy   Dec-22-08 08:39 AM   #123 
     - The wear and tear on her bod must be horrendous.  Perragrande   Dec-25-08 01:45 AM   #185 
  - hahahahaha  PittPoliSci   Dec-19-08 10:59 AM   #60 
     - "Like throwing a hotdog down a hallway!"  toopers   Dec-23-08 10:18 AM   #157 
  - Just one more soldier in the Army of God  MountainLaurel   Dec-18-08 11:36 PM   #19 
  - A very healthy weight. I don't presume to have the right to curtail reproductive rights for anyone  Veganistan   Dec-18-08 11:38 PM   #20 
  - wow  olddad56   Dec-18-08 11:56 PM   #23 
  - And if THEIR children have 18 kids, and THEIR children have 18 kids, and so on and so on...  Buns_of_Fire   Dec-19-08 01:35 AM   #29 
     - And you thought Tribbles were fiction ...? (n/t)  Nihil   Dec-19-08 06:50 AM   #33 
     - And if everyone did this, disease, starvation and war would probably end the human race by then  FiveGoodMen   Dec-19-08 07:17 PM   #86 
  - to quote Bill Maher... Its a vagina not a clown car!  Endangered Specie   Dec-19-08 12:04 AM   #25 
  - Bill Maher is a clown.  JeanGrey   Dec-20-08 12:08 AM   #92 
  - whew.....  firedupdem   Dec-19-08 12:55 AM   #28 
  - Sorry ... but part of this planet's problem is too many people.  gauguin57   Dec-19-08 01:54 AM   #30 
  - That's exactly what I thought - breeding humanity out of existence.  Vinca   Dec-19-08 06:31 AM   #32 
  - If they really loved children and wanted 18 (or more)  dflprincess   Dec-19-08 01:28 PM   #71 
  - Part of the ESP crowd  Best_man23   Dec-19-08 06:53 AM   #35 
  - LOL!  Mad_Dem_X   Dec-19-08 08:11 AM   #38 
  - Please sterilize these idiots.  The Stranger   Dec-19-08 08:04 AM   #36 
  - Disgusting II  NJCher   Dec-21-08 11:07 PM   #116 
  - Sick.  Mad_Dem_X   Dec-19-08 08:10 AM   #37 
  - yes it is irresponsible  Seashell Eyes   Dec-19-08 08:19 AM   #39 
  - Not to mention the fact that the world is already overpopulated, species are being obliterated,  The Stranger   Dec-19-08 08:24 AM   #40 
  - that too  Seashell Eyes   Dec-19-08 08:41 AM   #42 
  - Remember the adage - if population were a bacteria covering a pond that doubles everyday,  superconnected   Dec-23-08 12:38 AM   #151 
  - Exactly. 7 billion "miracles" are more than enough! nt  Lorien   Dec-19-08 10:16 AM   #57 
  - They may not get as much alone time with mom and dad  joeglow3   Dec-19-08 08:34 AM   #41 
  - It's the "Here, Willow, take Trig" or "Hey Piper, take Trig" or "Hey Bristol, take Trig" syndrome.  gauguin57   Dec-22-08 01:48 AM   #121 
  - There aren't enough hours in the day to give each "quality time"  Lorien   Dec-19-08 10:15 AM   #56 
  - Sick, I mean who needs 3 children?  WriteDown   Dec-19-08 02:28 PM   #77 
  - This is the main thing that gets me  treestar   Dec-22-08 02:57 PM   #140 
  - Just watch the show - Dad is breeding a professional 'family'  peaches2003   Dec-19-08 08:47 AM   #43 
  - The woman is 42 and she's had 18 kids.  riverdeep   Dec-19-08 09:05 AM   #45 
  - I've known women who've had kids, without pumping hormones - naturally - up to 43 years old.  ShortnFiery   Dec-20-08 07:49 AM   #96 
     - Oh pleeeease.  lizzy   Dec-21-08 11:15 PM   #117 
  - What time does menopause hit?  danagsk8   Dec-19-08 09:10 AM   #46 
  - Well, let's see . .. $3,500 X 18 for dependent deductions, $10,900 for married jointly . . .  hatrack   Dec-19-08 09:35 AM   #48 
  - Don't forget the $300 xeach child from the stimulus checks earlier this year.  electron_blue   Dec-19-08 09:39 AM   #49 
  - You're right - another $5,400!  hatrack   Dec-19-08 09:50 AM   #51 
  - Future Republicans  hamsterjill   Dec-19-08 09:53 AM   #52 
  - Don't forget the $1,000 child tax credit for each kid  joeglow3   Dec-19-08 11:49 AM   #61 
  - But let's not forget about  southerncrone   Dec-23-08 11:41 AM   #158 
  - Just think what they'd make if they moved to Alaska!  woodsprite   Dec-19-08 11:06 PM   #91 
  - The show is pretty secretive about what Dad does  peaches2003   Dec-19-08 09:56 AM   #53 
  - Cashing in their fertility  peace frog   Dec-19-08 12:57 PM   #66 
  - Now THERE'S an idea for NASCAR!  Buns_of_Fire   Dec-20-08 10:29 AM   #101 
  - Those girls are all wearing the same Prairie dress just like the women in  CTyankee   Dec-22-08 11:16 AM   #125 
  - Re SHOW ...they must make substantial amounts from it---????  defendandprotect   Dec-23-08 11:47 PM   #169 
  - Here are my sentiments on this story:  KC2   Dec-19-08 10:00 AM   #54 
  - No matter how many kids they've had, it's still a blessed event.  robcon   Dec-19-08 10:23 AM   #58 
  - Nah, I'm content with pointing at them and saying "Idiots."  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Dec-22-08 11:26 AM   #127 
  - Tomorrow's headline: Michelle Duggar pregnant with 19th child  Neo   Dec-19-08 10:27 AM   #59 
  - You called it  KamaAina   Dec-20-08 12:46 PM   #104 
  - Choice is a two way street  joeglow3   Dec-19-08 11:51 AM   #62 
  - no it isn't a "two way street" when one "choice" is to choose to be a pig  pitohui   Dec-21-08 07:12 PM   #111 
     - Glad you aren't running the world..  Mudoria   Dec-22-08 11:34 AM   #128 
  - Pretty revolting. I hope that their 10 sons and 8 daughters don't follow in their footsteps  LeviathanCrumbling   Dec-19-08 12:35 PM   #63 
  - Pro-choice it seems means pro-abortion  JonQ   Dec-19-08 12:43 PM   #64 
  - Where did you get your Jump to Conclusions Mat?  GinaMaria   Dec-19-08 01:19 PM   #69 
  - That's exactly my point  JonQ   Dec-19-08 01:25 PM   #70 
     - Expressing an opinion is not advocating a specific choice for others  GinaMaria   Dec-19-08 09:53 PM   #90 
        - Look up  JonQ   Dec-22-08 11:18 AM   #126 
           - One poster?  GinaMaria   Dec-22-08 01:10 PM   #136 
              - On here?  JonQ   Dec-22-08 01:12 PM   #137 
                 - You haven't been around very long have you?  GinaMaria   Dec-22-08 01:28 PM   #138 
                    - If they called for women who had abortions  JonQ   Dec-22-08 02:14 PM   #139 
                       - not surprising at all  GinaMaria   Dec-22-08 04:44 PM   #141 
                       - He wants to expose the hypocrisy of the evil leftists  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Dec-23-08 05:52 AM   #153 
                          - I'm opposed to any forms of hypocrisy  JonQ   Dec-23-08 09:09 PM   #164 
                             - Some, obviously, more than others.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Dec-24-08 12:49 PM   #176 
                                - If this were a conservative forum  JonQ   Dec-24-08 04:24 PM   #181 
                       - There's a reason 18 children used to be a lot more common  EstimatedProphet   Dec-23-08 07:29 AM   #156 
                       - Whether they live or die doesn't matter when the question was  JonQ   Dec-23-08 09:10 PM   #165 
                          - Most men are capable of carrying 200 lbs weight on their backs  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Dec-24-08 12:46 PM   #175 
                             - We didn't really evolve  JonQ   Dec-24-08 04:22 PM   #180 
                                - Please provide a link  GinaMaria   Dec-25-08 01:24 AM   #184 
                                   - So evolution favors infertility?  JonQ   Dec-25-08 01:00 PM   #189 
                                      - I think it is you who are confused  GinaMaria   Dec-25-08 04:26 PM   #191 
                       - Women have not evolved to breed like farm animals  GinaMaria   Dec-23-08 08:39 PM   #163 
                          - Not really  JonQ   Dec-23-08 09:16 PM   #166 
                             - Please provide links  GinaMaria   Dec-23-08 09:43 PM   #167 
                                - Hello?  GinaMaria   Dec-25-08 12:35 PM   #187 
                                - You mean provide a link  JonQ   Dec-25-08 01:18 PM   #190 
                                   - Your conclusions are way off as they have been throughout  GinaMaria   Dec-25-08 05:18 PM   #192 
  - Remember the single stay at home mother of ten last month?  marshall   Dec-21-08 07:37 AM   #108 
  - I don't think that's really a fair comparison  JonQ   Dec-22-08 11:16 AM   #124 
  - I see a precise and relevant difference...  LanternWaste   Dec-22-08 11:46 AM   #131 
  - Yeah, coz there's no such thing as BC pills. We evil leftists want everybody to ABORT ABORT ABORT!1!  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Dec-22-08 11:51 AM   #132 
  - I guess it's time for me to post this again...  Javaman   Dec-19-08 01:15 PM   #68 
  - Glad she's healthy. The mom and dad still need a mental health exam though - and a free trip  superconnected   Dec-19-08 01:45 PM   #73 
  - I always wonder what would happen if they got a divorce.  superconnected   Dec-19-08 01:52 PM   #76 
  - My prediction:  southerncrone   Dec-23-08 12:16 PM   #159 
  - NASTY!  SillyFlower   Dec-19-08 02:33 PM   #78 
  - When she "weans" one, an older kid takes over. This is just sick nt  whutgives   Dec-19-08 03:39 PM   #81 
  - jor dine grace mack ee ya ?  Sentath   Dec-19-08 04:32 PM   #82 
  - Misread that : thought it said 18lb child  edwardlindy   Dec-19-08 04:37 PM   #83 
  - They are being watched by the State of Arkansas  Chicago1   Dec-19-08 07:10 PM   #85 
  - Is Arkansas giving them welfare checks to help feed and clothe those kids while it watches?  No Elephants   Dec-21-08 05:11 AM   #107 
  - Eight-TEEN is enough???  brentspeak   Dec-19-08 09:46 PM   #89 
  - Their wish..  friedgreentomatoes   Dec-20-08 07:30 AM   #95 
  - now the kids can play baseball  Enrique   Dec-20-08 09:34 AM   #98 
  - Having babies for Jesus, just like the Virgin Mary.  No Elephants   Dec-20-08 09:36 AM   #99 
  - I wonder if Jim Bob will mount and breed her immediately again, or will he let her rest up some?  KzooDem   Dec-20-08 10:20 AM   #100 
  - Would YOU delay, if you were helping create the population that will take back America for  No Elephants   Dec-21-08 05:08 AM   #106 
     - Jim Bob Duggar ... Gettin' it up again and again for Amurika and Jesus!  Oregonian   Dec-22-08 12:54 PM   #133 
  - She only had one. Yes, she named it with a 'J'.  superconnected   Dec-23-08 12:45 AM   #152 
  - How many years has she been pregnant.  alfredo   Dec-21-08 09:19 AM   #109 
  - Enough to save a lot of money on 'feminine' products.  undeterred   Dec-22-08 11:35 AM   #129 
     - she's been pregnant 13.5 years. Could she be addicted to the hormonal  alfredo   Dec-23-08 12:24 AM   #149 
  - wasn't she going to film this for the tv show?  carlyhippy   Dec-21-08 02:13 PM   #110 
  - Everybody sing!!  xyouth   Dec-21-08 09:26 PM   #112 
  - hey, you kids! get out of my vagina! (cue circus music)  RainDog   Dec-21-08 09:30 PM   #113 
  - Greedy and self-centered parents, those Duggars.  laureloak   Dec-21-08 09:36 PM   #114 
  - lol!  hyphenate   Dec-21-08 10:49 PM   #115 
  - I think this may the end of their breeding program  English Lady   Dec-22-08 12:21 AM   #118 
  - Jim Bob said they both would like to have more.  lizzy   Dec-22-08 08:34 AM   #122 
  - I can't believe she had so many VBAC kids ... Very dangerous.  Oregonian   Dec-22-08 12:58 PM   #134 
     - Yep. 3 C-sections, 18 kids total, and she is 42 years old.  lizzy   Dec-22-08 08:01 PM   #143 
        - Choosing the health, nay, the LIFE of the mother over the chance of churning out more drones  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Dec-23-08 05:56 AM   #154 
  - Oh, no worries...  PretzelzRule   Dec-24-08 04:34 PM   #182 
  - That's why we call it choice  Book Lover   Dec-22-08 01:06 PM   #135 
  - Them having a choice doesn't mean I have to approve or like it.  lizzy   Dec-22-08 08:36 PM   #144 
     - Why the eyesroll at me? I never said  Book Lover   Dec-22-08 10:28 PM   #147 
  - I've read that other than the tax exemptions, they aren't collecting any public assistance  slackmaster   Dec-22-08 06:51 PM   #142 
  - they are really stretching it with the J names  rebecca_herman   Dec-22-08 09:48 PM   #146 
  - Linux to the rescue!  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Dec-23-08 06:06 AM   #155 
  - do you think they are trying to out populate the "unbelievers"?  zelta gaisma   Dec-22-08 11:30 PM   #148 
  - Disgusting and irresponsible.  Myrina   Dec-23-08 12:39 PM   #161 
  - Maybe someone should tell them what's causing it.  fjc   Dec-23-08 12:47 PM   #162 
  - "WHY?" was my question, but I see the answer is "god" ...!!!!  defendandprotect   Dec-23-08 11:36 PM   #168 
  - and Jim Bob wants to run for public office ?  JI7   Dec-24-08 12:01 AM   #170 
  - It's a vagina, not a clown car  TrogL   Dec-24-08 11:06 AM   #171 
  - She needed Lamaze???  bookworm65t   Dec-24-08 12:04 PM   #172 
  - "Ohh, get that, would you, Deirdre?"  dugaresa   Dec-24-08 01:13 PM   #177 
  - It's not the size of the family that makes me squeamish  Ellen Forradalom   Dec-24-08 02:10 PM   #178 
  - Her vagina is no longer a clown car.  foxfeet   Dec-24-08 02:43 PM   #179 
  - Does this woman even remember what a period is like?  Endangered Specie   Dec-25-08 01:10 AM   #183 
  - that is disgusting  JitterbugPerfume   Dec-25-08 12:58 PM   #188 

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