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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
68. cultural relativism is dying
and northern europe will be the ones to kill it.

this ruling is BS. women can lose their hymens in a myriad of ways.
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  -`Virgin' bride ruling stirs furor in France Tesha  Jun-05-08 10:40 AM   #0 
  - I swear, civilization seems to be marching backwards  Canuckistanian   Jun-05-08 10:45 AM   #1 
  - France is having an especially tough time because they are a very...  Tesha   Jun-05-08 10:52 AM   #3 
  - How do you say Sharia in French?  pegleg   Jun-06-08 08:43 AM   #82 
     - keep your eurabia crap to yourself  Flagg   Jun-06-08 09:09 AM   #90 
        - No! And by the way - It's meant to be anti-eurabia crap  pegleg   Jun-07-08 12:51 PM   #133 
           - Eurabia is a tool of the extreme right to scare people into voting for them  Flagg   Jun-08-08 02:06 PM   #147 
              - I feel that standing up for secular government is progressive.  pegleg   Jun-08-08 10:24 PM   #150 
  - Muslim cultural values are just as relevant as Frances cultural values. No one culture is superior.  davepc   Jun-05-08 10:53 AM   #4 
     - No, a secular society is superior.  John Gauger   Jun-05-08 11:42 AM   #18 
     - Absolutely! n/t  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 03:33 PM   #42 
     - What if she WAS a virgin & he just SAID she wasn't & NOW she's not.  polpilot   Jun-05-08 06:32 PM   #59 
     - Circular dude. Just circular.  polpilot   Jun-05-08 06:33 PM   #60 
        - How 'bout a big shout out for the primaries being OVER. It was brutal.  polpilot   Jun-05-08 06:35 PM   #61 
     - Ah, but a state that uses some sense of Ethics is more Just in establishing those rights  cryingshame   Jun-06-08 11:06 AM   #102 
     - Ethics are not the sole province of religion.  John Gauger   Jun-07-08 10:07 AM   #131 
     - Multiculturalism.....  tidy_bowl   Jun-06-08 03:56 PM   #122 
        - Yes, I absolutely do mean it.  John Gauger   Jun-07-08 09:46 AM   #130 
        - No it isn't  alarimer   Jun-07-08 11:12 AM   #132 
        - wrong.  PittPoliSci   Jun-07-08 07:55 PM   #140 
     - Well, France was instrumental in bringing us The Enlightenment...  mitchum   Jun-05-08 11:43 AM   #19 
     - But what about women's rights?  LisaM   Jun-05-08 12:53 PM   #24 
     - Apparently. not in some cultures. I'd fight for women's rights here.  digidigido   Jun-05-08 01:00 PM   #26 
     - maybe ... except if she admits she's not a virgin she'll likely be murdered. i'd lie too  Scout   Jun-05-08 02:31 PM   #37 
     - I disagree  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 03:39 PM   #43 
     - Not a civil marriage.  amandabeech   Jun-05-08 05:37 PM   #56 
     - women's rights DO trump cultural "rights" (bullshit). Women's rights are human rights...  Scout   Jun-06-08 05:16 PM   #124 
        - Of course women have rights  rebecca_herman   Jun-07-08 07:30 PM   #136 
     - Bullshit  leftynyc   Jun-05-08 12:59 PM   # 
     - hahahahahahaha  sad_one   Jun-05-08 01:03 PM   #29 
     - Exactly  gaspee   Jun-06-08 12:28 PM   #108 
     - Wrong.  Cobalt Violet   Jun-05-08 01:09 PM   #31 
     - Cultures that treat women like people rather than cum catchers are superior to those that don't.  LeftyMom   Jun-05-08 02:17 PM   #36 
     - Oh yes, a secular culture that treats women as equals is most definitely superior  Electric Flag   Jun-05-08 04:29 PM   #50 
     - since i am a woman, obviously i disagree -- secular culture IS superior  pitohui   Jun-05-08 04:40 PM   #52 
     - cultural relativism is dying  maxsolomon   Jun-05-08 08:04 PM   #68 
     - If you are interested read Ken Wilber on this. Postmodernism is dying.  DuaneBidoux   Jun-06-08 08:58 AM   #87 
     - Sorry, I prefer secular values  fujiyama   Jun-06-08 01:24 AM   #74 
     - I guess no one belief system IN the culture is better than another?  DuaneBidoux   Jun-06-08 08:57 AM   #86 
     - bull-shit.  PittPoliSci   Jun-06-08 01:26 PM   #115 
     - No, some cultures are wrong.  Zynx   Jun-06-08 03:00 PM   #118 
     - Ridiculous assertion, ludicrious claim  JohnLocke   Jun-08-08 10:00 AM   #145 
     - A culture where women are treated as people, not as possessions  mycritters2   Jun-08-08 02:28 PM   #148 
  - The "Globe and Mail" has a more-extensive story on this...  Tesha   Jun-05-08 10:50 AM   #2 
  - Her critics are right, she is not up to the job.  madaboutharry   Jun-05-08 11:18 AM   #10 
  - An opinion piece (in French) from Le Monde...  Tesha   Jun-05-08 10:59 AM   #5 
  - Considering that the missing hymen is proof of absolutely nothing  Warpy   Jun-05-08 11:01 AM   #6 
  - Yeah, it's sad that the myth of the female hymen persists in the 21st century.  BlueIris   Jun-05-08 11:07 AM   #7 
  - Aren't a majority of women born without it?  John Gauger   Jun-05-08 11:38 AM   #17 
     - Not a majority, but some...  LeftishBrit   Jun-08-08 04:51 AM   #142 
  - Yeah, if the annulment is any kind of indication  John Gauger   Jun-05-08 11:37 AM   #15 
  - Or murdered by male relatives  gaspee   Jun-06-08 12:31 PM   #109 
     - She ain't out of the woods yet ...  JustABozoOnThisBus   Jun-06-08 02:52 PM   #117 
  - I hope and pray  leftynyc   Jun-05-08 01:01 PM   #27 
  - They got married in 2006 I believe  SillyFlower   Jun-06-08 12:40 PM   #112 
  - So? The hyman is the last thing this is about.  DuaneBidoux   Jun-06-08 09:00 AM   #88 
     - you're kidding, right? it's not literally hy"man" although no doubt many people think so!  Scout   Jun-06-08 05:18 PM   #125 
        - Of course I was kidding-the point being that it is not about a piece of flesh it is about  DuaneBidoux   Jun-07-08 09:17 PM   #141 
  - I dunno, If they could not get along after that... it might be best that the marriage be annuled  mikelgb   Jun-05-08 11:09 AM   #8 
  - I think the judge is right - marriage is a secular contract, and if one party  petronius   Jun-05-08 11:09 AM   #9 
  - very mercantile.  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 07:48 PM   #66 
     - Rational and consistent  petronius   Jun-06-08 12:37 AM   #73 
        - Justice?  Dogtown   Jun-06-08 07:20 AM   #76 
           - This is not a case of subjugating women  petronius   Jun-06-08 10:43 AM   #99 
           - Stop wasting my time  Dogtown   Jun-06-08 11:27 AM   #103 
              - Would it help if I explained it to you using smaller words?  petronius   Jun-06-08 11:40 AM   #104 
           - Ok, so what if the roles were reversed  rebecca_herman   Jun-07-08 07:32 PM   #137 
  - That is very disappointing.  John Gauger   Jun-05-08 11:19 AM   #11 
  - France Secular since 1789? Not in my History books, the date is only 1905.  happyslug   Jun-05-08 04:05 PM   #48 
  - Hmmm... gotta side with the court on this one.  iamahaingttta   Jun-05-08 11:20 AM   #12 
  - It's a very dangerous precedent  LisaM   Jun-05-08 01:03 PM   #30 
  - You might be right.  iamahaingttta   Jun-05-08 01:33 PM   #34 
  - I don't actually think it's a different issue, but  LisaM   Jun-05-08 02:04 PM   #35 
  - I Think She's Probably Better Off Without the Guy  Crisco   Jun-05-08 04:17 PM   #49 
  - I don't think he even had a right to KNOW if she was a virgin or not???????????????????  joeglow3   Jun-05-08 05:39 PM   #57 
  - That is majorly sick  Pastiche423   Jun-05-08 06:45 PM   #64 
  - Agreed. Marriage is personal: thus *you* get to decide what are the important factors.  mainegreen   Jun-06-08 07:59 AM   #78 
  - Huh?  rebecca_herman   Jun-07-08 07:35 PM   #138 
  - Nonsense..  sendero   Jun-08-08 07:14 AM   #144 
  - Sorry, but in this day and age, I have every right to demand honesty...  colinmom71   Jun-08-08 12:58 PM   #146 
  - I agree with you  SillyFlower   Jun-05-08 05:28 PM   #55 
  - You are a silly flower  Dogtown   Jun-06-08 03:56 PM   #123 
     - WTF are you talking about?  SillyFlower   Jun-08-08 11:49 PM   #151 
  - Exactly - those were the grounds for annulment, not any Muslim  treestar   Jun-06-08 08:50 AM   #85 
  - Western Europe  gaspee   Jun-06-08 12:35 PM   #110 
     - I didn't say any such thing  treestar   Jun-07-08 02:03 PM   #134 
  - But how do we or the husband know she misrepresented herself?  emmadoggy   Jun-06-08 09:44 AM   #94 
  - How do you prove this? How do you know he isn't lying?  WakeMeUp   Jun-06-08 10:22 AM   #96 
  - The whole world needs a no-fault divorce system like California's  Xithras   Jun-05-08 11:28 AM   #13 
  - This, of course, wasn't about divorce. The couple wanted the marriage annuled...  Tesha   Jun-05-08 11:38 AM   #16 
  - Texas has no-fault divorce too.  Perragrande   Jun-05-08 12:49 PM   #23 
  - Isn't an anulment better than a costly and often nasty divorce procedure ?  Flagg   Jun-05-08 11:28 AM   #14 
  - She misrepresented herself. The ruling would likely be the same here.  onehandle   Jun-05-08 11:51 AM   #20 
  - She claimed to be a virgin  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 03:46 PM   #46 
  - Well afterall she was _tainted_ LOL  SlicerDicer-   Jun-05-08 11:54 AM   #21 
  - Given the facts as presented, I agree with the judge  Android3.14   Jun-05-08 12:48 PM   #22 
  - As horrible as this is....  OwnedByFerrets   Jun-05-08 12:59 PM   #25 
  - just to play devils advocate....  digidigido   Jun-05-08 01:02 PM   #28 
  - I don't think so - because what bearing does her virginity have on the marriage?  LisaM   Jun-05-08 01:26 PM   #33 
     - Maybe and maybe not...  jmowreader   Jun-05-08 02:51 PM   #40 
     - Why on earth would you want this woman to remain married?  katerinasmommy   Jun-05-08 02:57 PM   #41 
     - Who are we to say what's relevant to their marriage? n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Jun-05-08 03:45 PM   #45 
  - At least it wasn't an honor killing  supernova   Jun-05-08 01:22 PM   #32 
  - not presently, perhaps  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 07:58 PM   #67 
  - FLDS, maybe (n/t)  gaspee   Jun-06-08 12:38 PM   #111 
  - does the groom have proof he is a virgin?  xxqqqzme   Jun-05-08 02:47 PM   #38 
  - I tend to be hyper about this kind of this ordinarily BUT...  katerinasmommy   Jun-05-08 02:50 PM   #39 
  - Are you not reading any  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 03:57 PM   #47 
     - I would ask you  katerinasmommy   Jun-05-08 04:44 PM   #53 
        - You want closure  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 07:39 PM   #65 
           - Well put.  PelosiFan   Jun-06-08 08:07 AM   #79 
           - Thanks  Dogtown   Jun-06-08 08:44 AM   #83 
           - The bride should not have lied about her virginity.  Fluffdaddy   Jun-06-08 10:01 AM   #95 
              - How do you know she was lying?  JulieRB   Jun-06-08 10:25 AM   #98 
              - Wow  gaspee   Jun-06-08 12:42 PM   #113 
                 - Disagree with the post ...attack the spelling or typographical error....typical  Fluffdaddy   Jun-06-08 03:05 PM   #119 
                    - She did Lie and now......................ADMITS IT!  Fluffdaddy   Jun-06-08 03:11 PM   #120 
                       - boy, i hope you weren't a slut and were a virgin when you married  Scout   Jun-06-08 05:32 PM   #126 
                       - Were I to call you a neanderthal  Book Lover   Jun-06-08 05:59 PM   #128 
                       - Wow...  LeftishBrit   Jun-08-08 04:08 PM   #149 
  - What if a guy gets a woman to marry him on a false pretense?  lumberjack_jeff   Jun-05-08 03:44 PM   #44 
  - What *exactly* makes a virgin so desirable for a wife?  Book Lover   Jun-05-08 04:29 PM   #51 
  - Maybe it stems from the fear of STDs  madmusic   Jun-05-08 05:02 PM   #54 
  - It's religous and cultural  SillyFlower   Jun-05-08 05:40 PM   #58 
  - desire for a virgin bride stems from a male fear of inadequacy  maxsolomon   Jun-05-08 08:28 PM   #70 
     - .  SillyFlower   Jun-05-08 09:08 PM   #72 
     - i'm speaking in the general about the larger issue, not the specifics of your case  maxsolomon   Jun-06-08 12:54 PM   #114 
     - Ding ding... we have a winner  eowyn_of_rohan   Jun-06-08 09:04 AM   #89 
  - Clean, fresh, free of deseases, pure, emotionally healthy, royal?  ckramer   Jun-05-08 06:44 PM   #63 
  - Say what???  pagandem4justice   Jun-06-08 08:27 AM   #81 
     - Thank you! Couldn't have said it better myself.  WakeMeUp   Jun-06-08 10:24 AM   #97 
  - We're primates.  Dogtown   Jun-05-08 08:09 PM   #69 
  - bonobos are bisexual and fool around up and down  xchrom   Jun-05-08 08:51 PM   #71 
  - true  Dogtown   Jun-06-08 07:22 AM   #77 
  - you don't know what you're talking about. bonobos are MATRILINEAL  RainDog   Jun-06-08 09:27 AM   #92 
  - i don't have the link handy  Scout   Jun-06-08 02:04 PM   #116 
  - Read up on the Chimps, That is NOT how chimp live and love.  happyslug   Jun-06-08 08:23 PM   #129 
  - Basic Freudian Insecurity  Nevernose   Jun-06-08 10:52 AM   #100 
  - Usually either personal feelings or religion  rebecca_herman   Jun-07-08 07:41 PM   #139 
  - The woman,  Pharlo   Jun-05-08 06:43 PM   #62 
  - Was he a virgin?  JNelson6563   Jun-06-08 04:42 AM   #75 
  - This only makes sense if she also wanted the divorce  supernova   Jun-06-08 08:22 AM   #80 
  - Maybe I'm crazy but I just don't see a problem here  no limit   Jun-06-08 08:49 AM   #84 
  - Thank you.......Finally a commonsense post  Fluffdaddy   Jun-06-08 09:37 AM   #93 
     - Except, do we know she lied?  KitSileya   Jun-06-08 10:55 AM   #101 
        - She DID Lie!!! And ADMITS IT!!!!!!!!!  qwlauren35   Jun-06-08 12:07 PM   #107 
  - without going into a criticism of differing beliefs, I always wondered why  Lerkfish   Jun-06-08 09:15 AM   #91 
  - What I wanna know is ... WHAT do the FREEPERS think?  UNCLE_Rico   Jun-06-08 12:00 PM   #105 
  - An annullment  Dorian Gray   Jun-06-08 12:04 PM   #106 
  - Was the husband a Virgin?  KCdemocrat   Jun-06-08 03:50 PM   #121 
  - you know the answer to those questions, i bet! n/t  Scout   Jun-06-08 05:34 PM   #127 
  - I don't see the big deal....?  rebecca_herman   Jun-07-08 07:21 PM   #135 
     - Commonsense post  Fluffdaddy   Jun-08-08 06:39 AM   #143 
 

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