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Reply #51: How can we possibly know the voters' intent... [View All]

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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. How can we possibly know the voters' intent...
... when Hillary's was the only name on the ballot? As much as I feel for Michigan voters, I don't see any way that their intent can be reliably assessed at this point. I mean, who can know what the outcome would have been had Obama and Edwards campaigned there and their names been included on the ballot? At thisd point, all we can do is speculate, based upon early poll results, but who's to say that, under different circumstances, maybe Edwards could have given a really energizing speech, had he campaigned in Michigan, that would have really resonated with Michigan voters, and he might have won the primary. Or maybe Obama, who knows? No one can know what might have been. So how can we pretend after the fact that we have some crystal ball that allows us to know what Michigan voters would have wanted in an open contest between the candidates? If there's no way of knowing that, how can we claim that we're being faithful to our democratic principles by carving up Michigan delegates and assigning them to anyone's camp?
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  -Sources: DNC Florida Compromise Reached, Michigan Hangs In Balance Amerigo Vespucci  May-31-08 09:43 AM   #0 
  - The Queen gets her way.  AllyCat   May-31-08 09:47 AM   #1 
  - The rules committee isn't violating the rules on this one.  igil   May-31-08 11:12 AM   #7 
  - At least Sen. Levin is CONSISTENT  Blaq Dem   May-31-08 12:17 PM   #10 
     - Levin didn't make sense to me with his excuse about FL  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:22 AM   #41 
        - It sounds like he has a beef with Iowa  Blaq Dem   Jun-01-08 11:22 AM   #52 
           - As does every state not allowed to get special treatment  mac2   Jun-01-08 11:37 AM   #56 
  - This is all Carl Levin's fault. What an ass.  dkf   May-31-08 09:49 AM   #2 
  - now I wish I had voted in the Michigan primary  harmonicon   May-31-08 01:52 PM   #16 
     - Considering your ignorance, we're better off.  JNelson6563   May-31-08 05:10 PM   #30 
        - excuse me, Genius!!!  harmonicon   May-31-08 07:33 PM   #39 
  - 42% of Michigan primary voters chose "uncommitted"  Zambero   May-31-08 10:09 AM   #3 
  - That would be generous to the Clinton camp - but is acceptable  dmordue   May-31-08 10:16 AM   #4 
  - "Everyone else who voted voted for Hillary": not quite.  KamaAina   May-31-08 03:43 PM   #24 
  - No way. Frig that.  cyclezealot   May-31-08 05:45 PM   #32 
  - This is so Orwellian making us believe it makes sense.  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:39 AM   #45 
  - Donna Brazile just had a Freudian slip of the tongue.  Dr.Phool   May-31-08 10:53 AM   #5 
  - No word on FL SD's  PATRICK   May-31-08 10:59 AM   #6 
  - The unpledged delegates should not be seated or given voting rights in FL or MI.  LiberalFighter   May-31-08 11:51 AM   #9 
  - Who cares what Obama or Hillary think about this?  Sterling   May-31-08 06:24 PM   #35 
     - It seems to me the Obama supporters think this is good because he  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:44 AM   #46 
  - Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan  atjrpsych   May-31-08 11:40 AM   #8 
  - Not sure why Obama pulled his name from the ballot in Michigan  minnesota_liberal   May-31-08 12:29 PM   #11 
     - Obama, Edwards & Richardson (?) All Pulled Their Names  Crisco   May-31-08 03:16 PM   #19 
  - A couple of questions about what was really going on  unc70   May-31-08 12:36 PM   #12 
  - Why wasn't things settled PRIOR to primary elections?  Blaq Dem   May-31-08 01:06 PM   #14 
  - They couldn't cause the chaos they now have.  mac2   May-31-08 03:32 PM   #22 
     - Bless you, finally some reason here.  Sterling   May-31-08 06:28 PM   #36 
  - "Could this have been to remove this risk that Obama might finish third behind Edwards"  brindis_desala   May-31-08 03:20 PM   #20 
  - McCain will won Iowa so why borther?  mac2   May-31-08 03:33 PM   #23 
  - You're kidding, right?  Tanketra   May-31-08 04:36 PM   #26 
     - It's conservative and always has been.  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:21 AM   #40 
  - As I said, Iowa egos don't seem that fragile  unc70   May-31-08 06:09 PM   #33 
     - Do your own research. This has been discussed at length on DU.  brindis_desala   May-31-08 07:06 PM   #38 
  - As the lesser known candidate without a chance to campaign vigorously  fed_up_mother   May-31-08 04:56 PM   #27 
  - UPDATE - Michigan Deal On The Table  brooklynite   May-31-08 12:45 PM   #13 
  - Oh! That's sounding hopeful, and here they come on C-Span.  fed_up_mother   May-31-08 05:00 PM   #28 
  - What about the polls before the primary?  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:48 AM   #47 
     - How can we possibly know the voters' intent...  KevinJ   Jun-01-08 10:57 AM   #51 
  - This is a disgrace  BecauseBushSaysSo   May-31-08 01:45 PM   #15 
  - Now she claims popular vote and takes it to the Convention  sellitman   May-31-08 03:48 PM   #25 
  - Its fine and its now over.  Warren Stupidity   May-31-08 01:52 PM   #17 
  - The Sooner the Better  fascisthunter   May-31-08 02:14 PM   #18 
  - She'll be holding her breath for her "assassination card".  Hulk   May-31-08 03:26 PM   #21 
  - So this time the votes will count? or will a recount be needed ? You can count on it  ohio2007   May-31-08 05:00 PM   #29 
  - 'half a vote' ?  HuffleClaw   May-31-08 05:22 PM   #31 
  - Yes, very Animal Farm  Sterling   May-31-08 06:30 PM   #37 
  - Nope its very much Empire.  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:37 AM   #44 
     - i just heard three other states (other than FL and MI) broke the same rule but were NOT punished  HuffleClaw   Jun-01-08 08:48 AM   #49 
        - All the small states who are allowed to vote before the  mac2   Jun-01-08 11:30 AM   #54 
        - McCain will win those states anyway  mac2   Jun-01-08 11:40 AM   #57 
        - From Bartcop  mac2   Jun-02-08 12:40 AM   #63 
  - Liberal Democrats in FL and MI only get half their  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:36 AM   #43 
  - This is a disaster  Sterling   May-31-08 06:13 PM   #34 
  - I agree.  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:32 AM   #42 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-01-08 04:53 AM   #48 
  - So there should be no consequences for breaking the rules?  KevinJ   Jun-01-08 11:23 AM   #53 
     - The DNC rules are not fair and equal for all the states.  mac2   Jun-01-08 11:36 AM   #55 
     - No argument there  KevinJ   Jun-01-08 11:56 AM   #59 
     - See post #63.  mac2   Jun-02-08 12:41 AM   #64 
  - Pretty sad that it wasnt this way in the first place...  Jack_DeLeon   Jun-01-08 09:07 AM   #50 
  - BOTH sides agreed to this compromise. So I really don't wanna hear any bitching from  kestrel91316   Jun-01-08 11:44 AM   #58 
     - Yeah, but it highlights a systemic problem  KevinJ   Jun-01-08 12:02 PM   #60 
     - Ya...and Dean picked the committee.  mac2   Jun-01-08 12:07 PM   #61 
        - Unless Dean did so in violation of some rule, I REALLY don't wanna hear  kestrel91316   Jun-01-08 06:41 PM   #62 
           - Work within the system?  mac2   Jun-02-08 12:42 AM   #65 

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