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Reply #43: Because to do realistic scenarios, you need a very large MOUT facility [View All]

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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. Because to do realistic scenarios, you need a very large MOUT facility
Edited on Thu May-29-08 09:30 PM by wmbrew0206
that no base has.

MOUT operations are the most dangerous operations the military does because a small force can inflict a high number casualties on a much larger force. You need to practice doing these operations over and over and you can't do them in the same facility.

Training loses a lot if you run different scenarios over the same facility over and over. You get to know what is where and you can only change the facility so much. The realism that you need can only be provided by operating in a city where you can train over different areas in totally new areas. It allows you to train in a residential neighborhood to an inner city to a business district.

No bases can afford to build and maintain a MOUT facility that large. Plus when working in a city you have to deal with locals who have expert knowledge of the area while you don't. Everyone knows their base's MOUNT facility pretty well after the first month or two ofa work up. Before working in a city, the training cell goes out and meets with the locals and asks them to either be neutral, friendly, or bordering on hostile to the Marines that will be operating in their area. Sometimes they will be given a number to call to report on the Marines where abouts.

Also, obviously, NO LIVE ROUNDS are brought to this exercise.

A lot of work goes into working out the details of where and when the Marines can train. We know that if we screw anything up not only will the city not invite us back, but you are likely to be relieved.

Quick story: a MEU has practicing an air assault on a facility (in this case an abandoned school). The CH-53 pilots who flew them in thought they had the right school and landed their helo's and disembarked their Marines. When the Marine Officer in charge of the force saw kids at the windows, he realized they were at the wrong school and radio'd it in. Word had it the Marine Colonel in charge of the MEU, took off his rank insignia and said "Well, it was a hell of a career" and walked out of the COC thinking he'd be fired for allowing his force to land at the wrong school. It didn't happen but it shows how seriously we take training in the US outside of a base.
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  -Marines Plan Urban Combat Training In Indiana Cities Purveyor  May-29-08 02:51 PM   #0 
  - I am uneasy about this  Mojorabbit   May-29-08 02:56 PM   #1 
  - You get used to shooting people out of uniform in an urban setting  gratuitous   May-29-08 03:00 PM   #3 
  - Well yeah.  tctctctc   May-29-08 04:08 PM   #12 
  - E X A C T L Y , ,, ,!!!!  defendandprotect   May-29-08 05:00 PM   #21 
  - Just wait until gas gets a bit scarcer and pricier  struggle4progress   May-29-08 05:24 PM   #28 
  - nothing else it could be, or feel like...  robinlynne   May-29-08 05:52 PM   #30 
  - What BushCo idiot came up with this idea?  sfexpat2000   May-29-08 02:57 PM   #2 
  - The citizens of our country need to rise up and put an end to this madness.  ORDagnabbit   May-29-08 03:02 PM   #4 
  - This is an Exercise in Putting an Uprising Down  AndyTiedye   May-30-08 12:44 AM   #47 
  - Just in time  demnan   May-29-08 03:03 PM   #5 
  - Wake up! It IS training the military for enforcing martial law  harcusaurus   May-29-08 03:18 PM   #6 
  - You got that right.  diverdownjt   May-29-08 04:23 PM   #16 
  - Welcome to DU, harcusaurus. (n/t)  area51   May-30-08 10:27 AM   #58 
  - Just in time for the rioting that they know is coming. No food, shelter or  greyghost   May-29-08 03:21 PM   #7 
  - Oh, CALM DOWN! Every single MEU does this before they deploy  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 03:26 PM   #8 
  - Great! We should do them in every town  Nostradammit   May-29-08 03:32 PM   #10 
  - Whether you like it or not, the soldiers and Marines need certain skills and training  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 03:54 PM   #11 
     - Whatever  PSPS   May-29-08 04:18 PM   #15 
     - Kiss my red, white, and blue ass  Nostradammit   May-29-08 04:23 PM   #17 
     - Are they "protecting my right to say" fuck all in Iraq?  LynnTheDem   May-29-08 05:06 PM   #24 
     - Yes, Lynn they are.  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 05:09 PM   #25 
        - Uh no actually, they sure as fuck are not.  LynnTheDem   May-29-08 05:13 PM   #26 
           - Actually, Lynn, I've been on the ground in Iraq twice in since '05 so I've gotten my  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 06:05 PM   #32 
           - Are you getting paid by the U.S. Government to post here?  Nostradammit   May-29-08 07:23 PM   #38 
           - Its just another Troll with no Bio  saigon68   May-29-08 09:38 PM   #44 
           - Bingo!  tuckessee   May-30-08 10:31 AM   #59 
           - I get my facts from my US military husband.  LynnTheDem   May-30-08 08:06 AM   #49 
           - Don't confuse this one with the 'facts' Lynn  Jax   May-29-08 06:08 PM   #33 
              - Yup, cause I'll trust Lynn over my lying eyes  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 06:13 PM   #34 
              - If you still think the US military is in Iraq for anything to do with our "freedoms"  LynnTheDem   May-30-08 08:08 AM   #50 
                 - Lynn, we're not going to agree on this issue so there is no point in discussing it any further  wmbrew0206   May-30-08 08:51 AM   #53 
                    - I am against this illegal war of aggression; I want our troops out yesterday; what I REALLY want  LynnTheDem   May-30-08 09:09 AM   #54 
              - Well as we all know, facts have leftwing bias.  LynnTheDem   May-30-08 08:21 AM   #51 
     - Utter crap!  Pastiche423   May-29-08 07:37 PM   #40 
     - They should train properly then  atreides1   May-30-08 08:45 AM   #52 
        - To answer your post  wmbrew0206   May-30-08 09:11 AM   #55 
  - It's ILLEGAL to run exercises outside of the bases.  tctctctc   May-29-08 04:10 PM   #13 
  - No it is not. It is illegal to use the US military inside the US for offensive action, not exercises  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 04:32 PM   #18 
  - Then why do exercises in American cities? (if there are no plans to ever do battle in  robinlynne   May-29-08 05:51 PM   #29 
  - Because to do realistic scenarios, you need a very large MOUT facility  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 09:28 PM   #43 
     - I just have never go over the image  Mojorabbit   May-30-08 05:25 AM   #48 
  - "except in times of crisis"  kgfnally   May-29-08 06:15 PM   #35 
  - I won't say never, but it would take a Massive event to even consider operaterating  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 09:39 PM   #45 
  - That's true. It is illegal. But what people are worrying about...  seawolf   May-29-08 07:08 PM   #37 
  - Er, the PC law restricted military use for law enforcement  Posteritatis   May-29-08 08:34 PM   #41 
  - Can you cite the text of the law which forbids this?  Freddie Stubbs   Jun-17-08 11:46 AM   #61 
  - PLease explain further. Are you saying that 15 years ago they did this?  robinlynne   May-29-08 05:54 PM   #31 
     - I don't think 15 years, but these exercises have been going on in cities for a long time.  wmbrew0206   May-29-08 09:47 PM   #46 
        - Thank-you. According to the definitions, this is standard training then, not something new.  robinlynne   May-30-08 09:56 AM   #56 
           - I completely understand. If you didn't know this happens twice a  wmbrew0206   May-30-08 10:10 AM   #57 
  - Military exercises in shopping malls?  Robbien   May-29-08 03:31 PM   #9 
  - Many Hoosiers are dumbed down.  tctctctc   May-29-08 04:16 PM   #14 
  - The shopping mall cited is no longer open.  WakeMeUp   May-29-08 08:54 PM   #42 
  - Sometimes I regret having been born a Hoosier  Prisoner_Number_Six   May-29-08 04:33 PM   #19 
  - If it walks like a duck.....  Ferd Berfle   May-29-08 04:40 PM   #20 
  - GREAT idea!  LynnTheDem   May-29-08 05:04 PM   #22 
  - What do the gun control supporters think of this? n/t  conspirator   May-29-08 05:04 PM   #23 
  - They're also teaching them the "Hi Li Hi Lo" marching song  aint_no_life_nowhere   May-29-08 05:18 PM   #27 
  - This is creepy!  Dyedinthewoolliberal   May-29-08 06:15 PM   #36 
  - What if the residents stay away from the places these exercises are scheduled?  Bush_MUST_Go   May-29-08 07:30 PM   #39 
  - Turned out that this training was a good thing!  wmbrew0206   Jun-17-08 11:27 AM   #60 

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