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Reply #313: The Batista 'government' [View All]

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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-20-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #309
313. The Batista 'government'
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 03:02 PM by GirlinContempt
and Batista himself, befriended the Mafia and corporations. This wealth flowed in to their pockets. His opponents, people who organized, were gunned down in the streets (see Antonio Guiteras). This is not a situation for Unions. He suspended the Constitution, and rights to strike. He completely reorganized the government to ensure that he and his cronies received the wealth flowing in from gangsters and the US. When rebellions happened, he ordered his soldiers to kill ten rebels for every lost solider. He sold contracts to the highest bidder with no regard to fairness, he pocketed 30% of profits, above and beyond what he siphoned off through the
government that should have been going to things like health and education for his people. His police force and military beat down students and shut down universities when they protested. The military police would patrol the streets at night and pick up people that could possibly be organizing anything that the government didn't like. They were arrested and tortured. José A. Echeverría was killed for making a radio broadcast. Frank País was killed for organizing for change.

This is not a situation for unions. You can not just introduce the idea of unions in that kind of political system. It doesn't work. You'd get shot, or disappeared.

Now, lets look at unions in other Latin American countries:

The AFL-CIO and AIFLD work actively to take the teeth out of South American unions. George Meany, President of the AFL-CIO and also of AIFLD, boasted support from the "largest corporations in the United States . . . Rockefeller, ITT, Kennecott, Standard Oil, Shell Petroleum . . . Anaconda, even Readers Digest. . . and although some of these companies have no connection whatsoever to US trade unions, they are all agreed that it was really in the US interest to help develop free trade unions in Latin America, and that's why they contributed so much money".

J. Peter Grace, Chairman of the Board of AIFLD and also Chairman of the Board of the W.R. Grace Corporation, one of the ninety five transnational companies that back the Institute, applies the doctrine in tactical terms. Grace says AIFLD urges "cooperation between labour and management and an end to class struggle" and "teaches workers to increase their company's business". He says the goal of AIFLD is to "prevent communist infiltration, and where it exists . . . get rid of it".

And thus to an outline of their practise: AIFLD played an important role in the destruction of the Cheddi Jagan government in Guyana. They worked with massive funds, up to $800,000 in a country with less than a million people, funnelled through the Public Service International and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. At least eleven graduates of AIFLD's Front Royal, Virginia Centre were maintained on a payroll to organise the riots and company union opposition to the leftist head of government.

In the Dominican Republic, where AIFLD worked to unseat the government of Juan Bosch and tried to organise labour support backing the 1965 US invasion, they have continued to play a role towards stabilising the repressive status quo. One AIFLD plan in the Dominican Republic gives some insight into AIFLD "training". It called for "a stepped up propaganda and education campaign in addition to motorised brigades (vigilantes) . . . a specially trained mobile group of 'educator organisers' . . . used to confront and battle . . . the extreme left." In a specific reply to this charge, Director Doherty's Washington office says "AIFLD is glad to take credit for giving fraternal and material support".

http://www.counterpunch.org/scipes03292004.html
Massive mobilizations, strikes, street conflict, hysterical mass media, social and economic disruption: Chile in 1972-73 Venezuela in 2002-04.

The AFL-CIO is once again on the scene, this time in Venezuela, just as it was in Chile in 1973. Once again, its operations in that country are being funded by the U.S. government. This time, the money is being laundered through the quasi-governmental National Endowment for Democracy, hidden from AFL-CIO members and the American public.

Once again, it is being used to support the efforts of reactionary labor and business leaders, helping to destabilize a democratically-elected government that has made major efforts to alleviate poverty, carried out significant land reform in both urban and rural areas, and striven to change political institutions that have long worked to marginalize those at the lowest rungs in society. And also like Allende's Chile, Venezuela's government under president Hugo Chavez has opposed a number of actions by the U.S. Government, this time by the Bush Administration.

ACILS-also known as the Solidarity Center-has overseen all of the AFL-CIO's foreign labor operations since 1997, centralizing a previously decentralized set of regional bodies that had long worked in Africa, Asia, Europe and Latin America. These organizations, which played a key role in the Cold War, had a terrible affect in the developing regions of the world.

There is a consensus that ACILS' work under President John Sweeney has been considerably better than foreign operations carried out under previous AFL-CIO presidents George Meany and Lane Kirkland. But the continuing lack of transparency, accountability and even simple reporting to AFL-CIO members about ACILS has generated concerns among activists about what the organization actually does in the many countries in which it operates. Solidarity Center Director Harry Kamberis' background is not a typical labor background and looks suspiciously like CIA, which also adds to activists' unease. (See my report in Labor Notes, February 2004.).

Most of ACILS' funding comes from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), not the AFL-CIO. The NED was created by the Reagan Administration in 1983. One of the authors of the enabling legislation has said that NED was to do at least some of the work previously done by the CIA, albeit publicly: its talk appears progressive, but its actions are reactionary. One of the NED's initial directors was that well-known democrat, Henry Kissinger, Richard Nixon's point man in the campaign against Chile's elected president, Salvador Allende.

http://www.selvesandothers.org/article10406.html
he UNT seeks to displace the Confederation of Venezuelan Labor (CTV), historically the dominant union body in the country. It aims to undo decades of decline by organized labor: Gil estimated that real wages in his plant haven’t risen in 18 years.
There is a history of union corruption in Venezuela-overwhelmingly within the CTV. In her book The Failure of Political Reform in Venezuela, the British academic Julia Buxton describes it as one of the “richest and most powerful union confederations in the world” in its heyday. <9> The CTV’s intimate ties with the political establishment allowed “for the illicit enrichment of union leaders, who acquired a personal interest for maintaining the model of party control,” she wrote. In fact, the Venezuelan state provided 90 percent of the funding for the CTV in the 1960s and 1970s. <10> The AFL-CIO’s ties to the CTV, moreover, have been among its closest with any foreign labor federation. This relationship has continued despite the CTV’s alliance with the forces that mounted the April 2002 coup-of which the CIA had foreknowledge-that was embraced by the Bush administration. <11> The AFL-CIO’s support for the CTV continued through the devastating oil industry lockout, and the strike that followed.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Labor/AFL_CIO_Venezue...

http://www.workertoworker.net/afl_cio_foreign_policy_ve...
Although not generally known by union members as it has been consciously hidden by its leaders, the AFL-CIO actually has a long-time foreign policy program that goes back to the days of the American Federation of Labor (AFL) during the 19-teens under then-president, Samuel Gompers. And, in fact, much of this foreign policy program--during Gompers' time but also since 1962--has been carried out in Latin America
This foreign policy program has been initiated and carried out behind the backs of American workers, although "in our name." The AFL-CIO has long been known to carry out a reactionary labor program around the world. It has been unequivocally established that they have worked to overthrow democratically-elected governments, have collaborated with dictators against progressive labor movements, and have supported reactionary labor movements against progressive governments (Scipes, 2000: 12; Shorrock, 2002, 2003; see, among others, Snow, 1964; Morris, 1967; Radosh, 1969; Scott, 1978; Spaulding, 1984; Barry and Preusch, 1986; Cantor and Schor, 1987; Weinrub and Bollinger, 1987; Armstrong, et. al., 1988; Sims, 1992; Scipes, 1996; Carew, 1998; Nack, 1998; and Buhle, 1999).

And while the AFL-CIO's regional organization, AIFLD (American Institute for Free Labor Development), was especially known for its involvement in events leading to the 1973 coup in Chile (Hirsch, 1974, n.d.; Scipes, 2000; Shorrock, 2003), what is less well known is it's long-standing ties with the Venezuelan CTV. In fact, according to labor journalist Lee Sustar,

Venezuela--a key focus of U.S. foreign policy since the oil boom of the 1920s--became Washington's counterweight to the Cuban Revolution of 1959. The headquarters of the AFL-CIO-initiated Inter-American Regional Organization of Workers (ORIT) was moved to Caracas. In 1962, Venezuela was the linchpin of the AFL-CIO's newly launched American Institute for Free Labor Development (AIFLD); the AIFLD board included both the AD leader Betancourt and his COPEI counterpart, Rafael Caldera. Next, in the mid-1960s, the AFL-CIO even provided funding for a CTV-owned bank. AIFLD chief Serafino Romualdi, later alleged to have been a CIA agent, called his relationship with Betancourt "the most fruitful political collaboration of my life." Romualdi helped engineer the expulsion of the Communist Party and other leftists from the CTV; elsewhere, AIFLD collaborated with the CIA and the State Department to undermine or overthrow Latin American governments opposed to the U.S. (Sustar, 2005; 3 see also Hirsch, 2005).

In other words, not only has the AFL-CIO had a long-standing foreign policy program, it long has been active in Latin America, and especially in Venezuela.

http://labornotes.org/node/230

http://labornotes.org/node/1307

In mid-March, Valmore Locarno Rodriguez and Victor Hugo Orcasita were riding the company bus from their jobs at the Loma coal mine in northern Colombia. Locarno and Orcasita were chairman and vice-chairman of the union at the mine.

The bus was stopped by 15 gunmen, some in military uniforms. They began checking the workers' identification, and when they found the two union leaders, pulled them off the bus.

One of the gunmen shot Locarno in the face, as his fellow workers watched in horror. Orcasita was taken off into the woods at the side of the road. There he was tortured. When his body was later found, his fingernails had been torn off.

Protesting the deaths, 1,200 miners at Loma stopped work. In Colombia, labor activism is often punished with death. By mid-May, 44 union leaders had been violently murdered this year alone. Last year assassinations cost the lives of 129 others. The National Labor School reports that 1,500 have been killed in the past decade. Out of every five unionists killed in the world, three are Colombian, according to a recent U.S. union report.

Last year the AFL-CIO called for ending military assistance to Colombia. Labor's strong reaction to the Colombian murders stands in contrast to its relative silence during the Reagan administration-sponsored wars in Central America in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

During that era, AFL-CIO President Lane Kirkland tried to suppress criticism of U.S. foreign policy in union ranks and to stop local efforts to organize support for Salvadoran unionists.

During the cold war, Kirkland and other labor conservatives accused most Colombian unions of being too left-wing. In turn the Colombians, like many third world labor federations, accused the AFL-CIO of supporting only anti-communist unions which defended U.S. foreign policy.

http://www.venezuelafoia.info/ned-english.html

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?sectionid=4...

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?sectionid=4...
For some time, there has been a lot of confusion outside Venezuela about what exactly has been happening there. How could progressives and trade unionists support the Venezuelan government despite its support of the poor through land reform and income redistribution and its attack on neo-liberalism and the FTAA---- given the dedicated opposition of the Confederation of Venezuelan Workers (CTV)? How, when there was a general strike, could we side with the government rather than workers? For trade union organisations, the problem has been even more difficult--- given the support for the CTV by international labour organisations (including the ILO). Nevertheless, as the Canadian Labour Congress (CLC) noted in the statement issued by Ken Georgetti on 18 April last year after the defeated coup, the role of the CTV in that coup against the democratically elected government of Hugo Chavez raised serious questions about the character of the CTV and its place in the crony capitalism and sham democracy that had left 80 % of the population in poverty in an oil-rich nation.

Today, though, there should be no confusion. Because the CTV has been exposed as just an arm of the Fedecamaras, the Employers Association with which it has been allied-- in the coup and in the so-called general strike. A strange general strike, indeed. One in which workers in the oil industry (blue collar), electricity, transport, public sector, basic industries and the subway, among others, kept working. One in which workers were laid off by the conglomerates (the monopolies) and transnationals and told that they would get full pay for the period of the lock-outs--- only now to discover that this promissory note was dependent on the c! ompanies defeating the Chavez government. (They are being offered half-pay, loss of vacations, etc... and those that protest? They're in the queues at the Ministry of Labour filing complaints over their dismissals.)


How's that for a start? You could always learn about it for yourself. Do a little research. I find it tiresome to have to educate people who're too lazy to learn about a thing for themselves. Maybe you should bother to learn about this stuff before you decide what the solution is. I know this makes me an arrogant bitch, but it would be just as fair to call you an arrogant asshole for expecting people to educate you about your own opinions, and believing that the American solution is the worlds solution. So I guess we're even.
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  Fidel Castro Resigns As President girl gone mad  Feb-19-08 02:45 AM   #0 
   Thank you.  emilyg   Feb-19-08 02:46 AM   #1 
   I hope this doesn't cause to much trouble  donheld   Feb-19-08 02:48 AM   #2 
   Nailed it!  JeffR   Feb-19-08 02:53 AM   #7 
   I can see it now - GWB singlehandedly caused Castro to age and become ill  FlyingSquirrel   Feb-19-08 03:20 AM   #19 
      No doubt. Don't I remember just a few years ago, people were  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 12:02 PM   #158 
   FIRST THING I THOUGHT!!!  krispos42DU Moderator   Feb-19-08 03:19 AM   #18 
   Same here  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 03:52 AM   #33 
   Oh, I think Reagan's increased military spending...  krispos42DU Moderator   Feb-19-08 04:01 AM   #42 
   Russian records say otherwise  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 04:05 AM   #44 
   A lesson to learn from the russian people  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 11:16 AM   #139 
      Open question  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 04:05 PM   #239 
      Bread and circuses  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 08:41 PM   #284 
         Interesting way of looking at it  Prophet 451   Feb-20-08 08:17 AM   #301 
      Bingo. They decided they couldn't afford to be an imperial power anymore  eridani   Feb-20-08 12:19 AM   #292 
   One name: Gorbachev.  AlertLurker   Feb-19-08 07:04 AM   #62 
   Right on  lumpy   Feb-19-08 01:19 PM   #185 
   This canard about US military spending under Reagan & the USSR is hogwash  cloudythescribbler   Feb-19-08 10:27 AM   #121 
   Yeah, I guess that's true  krispos42DU Moderator   Feb-19-08 12:17 PM   #162 
   What bankrupted the soviet union was not MX missiles and Star Wars,  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 12:07 PM   #159 
   Maybe this was his (early) October Surprise? nt  zanne   Feb-19-08 07:42 AM   #69 
   Me too  Frank Cannon   Feb-19-08 06:34 AM   #59 
   It's the same scheme that has proven so successful against bin Laden...  Orsino   Feb-19-08 07:06 AM   #63 
   LOL  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 12:09 PM   #160 
   DoubleDip finally has a legacy  Thor_MN   Feb-19-08 07:42 AM   #70 
   Absolutely.  racaulk   Feb-19-08 10:08 AM   #110 
   Wow  enigmatic   Feb-19-08 02:49 AM   #3 
   Raúl Castro was born in 1931.  tuvor   Feb-19-08 03:01 AM   #9 
      Hey bro  enigmatic   Feb-19-08 03:04 AM   #12 
         Things are pretty good here, thanks.  tuvor   Feb-19-08 03:12 AM   #14 
   Wow...  Maddy McCall   Feb-19-08 02:50 AM   #4 
   surprising  JI7   Feb-19-08 02:51 AM   #5 
   He must be nearing the end, then.  Tatiana   Feb-19-08 02:53 AM   #6 
   Pretty sure that means either he is already dead  lapfog_1   Feb-19-08 02:54 AM   #8 
   Probably the latter  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 03:53 AM   #34 
   Middle of the night announcement???  lapfog_1   Feb-19-08 03:59 AM   #38 
      Point  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 04:09 AM   #46 
      I wonder if he feels that confident.  lapfog_1   Feb-19-08 04:31 AM   #50 
         I think they'll make a big display of celebrating it in the streets...  zanne   Feb-19-08 07:43 AM   #71 
         Koenigsbarg/Kaliningrad and Aged exiles  VogonGlory   Feb-20-08 07:52 PM   #317 
      Has anyone checked if McCain/Castro polls well?  RuleOfNah   Feb-19-08 05:30 AM   #53 
   My thought too..  Virginia Dare   Feb-19-08 10:23 AM   #118 
   Wow is right, thank you. n/t  greyhound1966   Feb-19-08 03:02 AM   #10 
   We get to lose two scumbags in the span of one year (Fidel and W)  texasleo   Feb-19-08 03:02 AM   #11 
   Suh-weet!  Drunken Irishman   Feb-19-08 03:07 AM   #13 
   You regard your former governor who murdered a million in Iraq  ConsAreLiars   Feb-19-08 03:13 AM   #15 
   Oh boy--he sent doctors. Monkey did too, to the tsunami victims.  MADem   Feb-19-08 03:26 AM   #20 
      Maybe do a body count.  ConsAreLiars   Feb-19-08 03:39 AM   #28 
      Now see, that's lazy thinking, right there.  MADem   Feb-19-08 04:01 AM   #41 
      cute  ConsAreLiars   Feb-19-08 04:20 AM   #49 
      So because a person killed less people than others, he's no longer responsible?  BestCenter   Feb-19-08 04:53 AM   #51 
      Probably every sitting president we have ever had...  Mik T   Feb-19-08 07:50 AM   #76 
      There's a huge amount of room between beatification and equating Fidel Castro with W ... nt  cloudythescribbler   Feb-19-08 10:47 AM   #130 
      I have bad news for you. Just because you continue to misuse the word "ignorant"  MADem   Feb-19-08 09:35 AM   #105 
         huh....????  CanSocDem   Feb-20-08 08:09 AM   #300 
      Cuban 'adventurism' in South America and Africa  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 12:20 PM   #163 
         One more time, to one more "Two Wrongs" aficionado  MADem   Feb-19-08 12:43 PM   #170 
         Check out the fucking LOG in your eye  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 01:01 PM   #177 
            There you go with the TWO WRONGS again.  MADem   Feb-19-08 01:16 PM   #183 
            Don't even bother  Mik T   Feb-19-08 01:41 PM   #201 
               The only ones who are angry are the ones who think that, by continuing to hector me,  MADem   Feb-19-08 05:33 PM   #267 
         Hear hear  lumpy   Feb-19-08 01:37 PM   #199 
         Many wrongs do not make a right. n/t  mcg   Feb-19-08 11:20 PM   #291 
      Oh fer crying out loud!  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 10:17 AM   #116 
         It's funny how those of us who have experience with repressive regimes  MADem   Feb-19-08 11:25 AM   #144 
         Amen, MADem!  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 01:09 PM   #180 
         I was in WATTS in 1992 and had the same experience  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:26 PM   #189 
            I know what you're saying, Alpha.  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 01:47 PM   #203 
         What you call repressive regime?  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:24 PM   #188 
         Shah, Iran, pre-revolution. Khomeini, Iran, post-revolution.  MADem   Feb-19-08 01:28 PM   #192 
            So you must be talking about the Shah's brutal secret police force  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:53 PM   #207 
               It's not his speed skating team. NT  MADem   Feb-19-08 05:31 PM   #264 
         My husband did relief work in El Salvador during their US sponsered civil war  Mik T   Feb-19-08 01:29 PM   #193 
            The atrocities have been committed by those  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 03:03 PM   #230 
               That's true, but when you have the guy with most of the guns backing you up...  Solon   Feb-19-08 04:15 PM   #242 
                  That's true.  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 04:26 PM   #247 
         I know people living in Cuba today  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 11:40 AM   #151 
            What are their views  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 01:23 PM   #187 
            Well, I haven't talked to them in the last week or so.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 01:30 PM   #194 
               It does.  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 01:34 PM   #197 
            11 millions won't leave Cuba, just wondering? n/t  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:27 PM   #191 
               Sorry, could you rephrase that?  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 01:31 PM   #195 
                  I should say, there are 11 million Cubans who do not want leave Cuba.  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:51 PM   #204 
                     Yes.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 01:52 PM   #206 
                        the perception is that they are seeking "freedom" abroad  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:56 PM   #208 
                        Well, my feelings on that are mixed.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 02:06 PM   #210 
                        You may recall a small girl in Miami who was the subject of a dispute last summer.  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 02:56 PM   #228 
      Gee-I didn't know Castro had that much in common with Bush.  Mik T   Feb-19-08 07:39 AM   #68 
      Another lazy "two wrongs" thinker. Feeling smug? You shouldn't.  MADem   Feb-19-08 11:28 AM   #146 
         Can you reply ONCE to a statement without cursing, namecalling or otherwise being rude?  Mik T   Feb-19-08 12:41 PM   #168 
         Stop assuming you know anything about my "ideology" and stop talking  MADem   Feb-19-08 12:50 PM   #172 
            Poor thing- you need to go to some anger management classes  Mik T   Feb-19-08 01:21 PM   #186 
            wow you sound more worry about losing your enemy  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:31 PM   #196 
         Can you reply ONCE to a statement without cursing, namecalling or otherwise being rude?  Mik T   Feb-19-08 12:41 PM   #169 
         You are being simplistic and naive  Mik T   Feb-19-08 02:25 PM   #221 
      good deeds abound  Mik T   Feb-19-08 07:47 AM   #75 
      Do you have any idea what life was like in Cuba for the common  coalition_unwilling   Feb-19-08 10:31 AM   #124 
      Agree on the stats. But, Castro didn't do these things. The Cuban people did.  Mika   Feb-19-08 10:59 AM   #135 
      Ahhh, the TWO WRONGS argument. Spare me.  MADem   Feb-19-08 11:22 AM   #142 
         You are not responding to my question. Again, do you have any  coalition_unwilling   Feb-19-08 12:26 PM   #165 
         YOU are not responding to my POINT. You are suggesting, that because  MADem   Feb-19-08 12:40 PM   #167 
            I know whose side I'm on and it's definitely not the casino owners or sugar  coalition_unwilling   Feb-19-08 03:01 PM   #229 
               I am not on the side of the casino or plantation owners either.  MADem   Feb-19-08 05:40 PM   #268 
         Most nations do things that are inappropriate.  Mik T   Feb-19-08 02:03 PM   #209 
            gad...  Hannah Bell   Feb-19-08 04:37 PM   #249 
      Some of these accusations against Fidel C are true, but others are NOT:  cloudythescribbler   Feb-19-08 10:44 AM   #128 
         Uh, Angola wasn't their only adventure, by any stretch.  MADem   Feb-19-08 11:33 AM   #149 
   Indeed, my friend!  liberalsoldier5   Feb-19-08 06:00 PM   #269 
   For all his faults, a notable man of the 20th Century  intaglio   Feb-19-08 03:15 AM   #16 
   Good riddance to bad rubbish.  tritsofme   Feb-19-08 03:18 AM   #17 
   A free Cuba is bad news for Puerto Rico.  MADem   Feb-19-08 03:30 AM   #22 
   and for Florida too  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:36 PM   #198 
      It'll go back to being the sleepy geezer snowbird haven it once was, perhaps? nt  MADem   Feb-20-08 05:51 PM   #315 
   and let's hope those in Miami don't start fucking with whatever happens next.  Teh_Rabble_Rouser   Feb-19-08 03:31 AM   #23 
   Which they will  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 03:55 AM   #35 
      They've only been waiting for 49 years.  Common Sense Party   Feb-19-08 03:58 AM   #37 
      Yup. They'll be buying Cuba as soon as they can. nt  zanne   Feb-19-08 07:45 AM   #73 
      someONE? What kind of bet is that? I bet Kucinich doesn't get the 08 Democratic prez nomination  cloudythescribbler   Feb-19-08 10:50 AM   #132 
      There will be a mass migration from Florida to Cuba  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:38 PM   #200 
   Yes, and may the beaches be covered with Ramada Inns......  tkmorris   Feb-19-08 03:38 AM   #27 
      Why not?  gorfle   Feb-19-08 08:08 AM   #78 
         You think tourist dollars will have them rolling in money?  Virginia Dare   Feb-19-08 10:26 AM   #120 
         So no income is better than some income?  gorfle   Feb-19-08 12:51 PM   #173 
            Huh?  Hannah Bell   Feb-19-08 04:41 PM   #250 
               Betcha...  gorfle   Feb-19-08 05:19 PM   #263 
               You seriously, seriously do not know what you are talking about.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 09:20 PM   #288 
                  I did not claim otherwise.  gorfle   Feb-20-08 09:56 AM   #303 
                     Yeah, actually, you did claim otherwise.  GirlinContempt   Feb-20-08 10:19 AM   #304 
                        That's fo sho.  gorfle   Feb-20-08 10:37 AM   #306 
                           This is useless.  GirlinContempt   Feb-20-08 10:55 AM   #307 
                              You're probably right.  gorfle   Feb-20-08 11:30 AM   #309 
                                 The Batista 'government'  GirlinContempt   Feb-20-08 02:45 PM   #313 
                                    You are right.  gorfle   Feb-20-08 05:46 PM   #314 
                                    Ok.  GirlinContempt   Feb-20-08 07:05 PM   #316 
                                    REALLY appreciate your post. I'm coming back later to read it thoroughly. Thanks so much for taking  Judi Lynn   Feb-20-08 11:33 PM   #318 
                                       That means a lot coming from you, Judi Lynn  GirlinContempt   Feb-21-08 09:55 AM   #319 
               Don't even bother  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 09:17 PM   #287 
         Yeah, cause it worked SO well before.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 11:42 AM   #152 
         How did it work before?  gorfle   Feb-19-08 12:51 PM   #175 
            The Way It Was --  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 01:09 PM   #179 
            Sounds like they needed labor protection.  gorfle   Feb-19-08 02:12 PM   #211 
               They just might have gotten them, too, in 1959 (or 58?) when Castro came to  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 02:24 PM   #220 
               protection is a racket, they needed and got worker control of the government  JVS   Feb-20-08 06:40 AM   #299 
            It didn't.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 01:17 PM   #184 
               Sounds like they needed some Unions.  gorfle   Feb-19-08 02:14 PM   #214 
                  Most of that money making machine was basically taking the wealth of Cuba...  Solon   Feb-19-08 02:29 PM   #222 
                  I don't think so.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 02:49 PM   #226 
                     I disagree...  gorfle   Feb-19-08 03:11 PM   #231 
                     Cuba already has resorts.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 03:38 PM   #235 
                        Again I disagree...  gorfle   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #253 
                           US tourism would probably increase their tourism revenues  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 06:06 PM   #270 
                              I remain unconvinced.  gorfle   Feb-19-08 06:24 PM   #274 
                                 Well, maybe do some extensive reading and research on the subject.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 06:27 PM   #275 
                                    I know, I was just being spiteful.  gorfle   Feb-19-08 06:37 PM   #276 
                                       Ah, ok  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 06:41 PM   #278 
                     The unions in CA beg to differ.  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 03:24 PM   #232 
                        Look at the situation of workers, as a whole, in the US.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 03:36 PM   #234 
                           True, many of them ( myself included)  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 04:01 PM   #237 
                              I'm not saying they haven't accomplished anything.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 04:08 PM   #240 
                              True, but that was after over 50 years of blood being spilled...  Solon   Feb-19-08 04:10 PM   #241 
                                 Absolutely!  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 04:23 PM   #245 
         It makes for great partnerships  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 12:51 PM   #174 
   Hopefully the U.S. will stay out of Cuba's business.  KillCapitalism   Feb-19-08 03:28 AM   #21 
   Some hope n/t  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 03:57 AM   #36 
   so you're cheerleading for continued communism in Cuba? nice! n/t  India3   Feb-19-08 09:16 AM   #96 
      What should we do? Bring them Iraqi-style "freedom" and "democracy"?..n/t  Virginia Dare   Feb-19-08 10:28 AM   #122 
      How about we let the Cuban people decide for themselves?  India3   Feb-19-08 11:10 AM   #138 
         In a perfect world...  Virginia Dare   Feb-19-08 11:17 AM   #140 
         A capitalist stye economy is not best for anyone.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 11:43 AM   #153 
         Uh-you can't  Mik T   Feb-19-08 12:46 PM   #171 
            that's wrong. but okay....  India3   Feb-19-08 01:13 PM   #181 
               You are right- I got life expectancy and infant mortality rate mixed up  Mik T   Feb-19-08 02:14 PM   #212 
                  You misunderstood me...  India3   Feb-19-08 02:23 PM   #219 
                     Free healthcare and free education (+ nationalized industries)  Mik T   Feb-19-08 02:47 PM   #225 
      Yes, I am a Marxist afterall.  KillCapitalism   Feb-19-08 11:21 AM   #141 
      No. It's not. Nobody with a reasonable thinking mind would agree with you. n/t  India3   Feb-19-08 11:26 AM   #145 
      Hey I would emigrate to Cuba if I could.  KillCapitalism   Feb-19-08 11:52 AM   #155 
      "Hey I would emigrate to Cuba if I could."  India3   Feb-19-08 12:23 PM   #164 
      Wow, talk about obnoxious.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 01:51 PM   #205 
      Your quote: "This "America is so great!" bullshit makes me sick."  India3   Feb-19-08 02:14 PM   #213 
         My reading comprehension is fine.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 02:43 PM   #224 
         "If I had to live in either, I would live in Cuba."  India3   Feb-19-08 05:32 PM   #265 
            Man, you are such a....  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 06:17 PM   #272 
         The United States was extremely lucky, compared to the rest of the world...  Solon   Feb-19-08 02:49 PM   #227 
            Quick - Put on your stars and stripes tighty whities  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 06:23 PM   #273 
      That's pretty presumptuous. One can wish to live in Cuba while  catzies   Feb-20-08 12:33 AM   #293 
         It is a wonderful place.  GirlinContempt   Feb-20-08 10:22 AM   #305 
      Maradona and Gabriel Garcia Marquez do it all the time  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:41 PM   #202 
      That's an opinion-everyone has one  Mik T   Feb-19-08 02:15 PM   #215 
      So, who are you voting for in November? lol! n/t  India3   Feb-19-08 11:34 AM   #150 
      It's apples and oranges I'm afraid (not tropical pun intended)  ORDem   Feb-19-08 02:34 PM   #223 
      Communism does not exist  MATTMAN   Feb-19-08 08:42 PM   #285 
   nothing changes, Dear-Leader Raul taking over  speedbird   Feb-19-08 03:33 AM   #24 
   He's just going to wind up shooting himself in the back of the head.  Dark   Feb-19-08 03:34 AM   #25 
   I would think he's on his death bed, wouldn't you all?  themartyred   Feb-19-08 03:38 AM   #26 
   Maybe, maybe not  MonkeyFunk   Feb-19-08 03:44 AM   #29 
      Castro  Beregond2   Feb-19-08 03:51 AM   #30 
      oh, thank you for the info! n/t  themartyred   Feb-19-08 03:51 AM   #31 
      Could be either  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 04:00 AM   #39 
      He has been very ill  The Croquist   Feb-19-08 08:44 AM   #85 
   "Promising to give the land back to the people" Did he ever do so?  Common Sense Party   Feb-19-08 03:52 AM   #32 
   Depends how it's defined  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 04:02 AM   #43 
      If he came to power "Promising to give the land back to the people"  Common Sense Party   Feb-19-08 04:08 AM   #45 
      Checked Wiki, turns out he did give the land back, sort-of  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 04:12 AM   #48 
      Inmates in American prisons also  Thothmes   Feb-19-08 07:55 AM   #77 
      So?  Prophet 451   Feb-19-08 09:18 AM   #98 
      Cuba offered compensation long, LONG ago. Agreement was made with owners in other countries,  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 08:08 AM   #79 
   NOW can the US normalize relations with Cuba? Interesting times ahead. nt  Hekate   Feb-19-08 04:00 AM   #40 
   Let's hope so....Together we can get Cuba back on track.  ileus   Feb-19-08 08:53 AM   #88 
      We can get Cuba back on track by BUTTING THE #### OUT of Cuba's business. n/t  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 08:55 AM   #90 
      Thank you.  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 11:46 AM   #154 
      The only decent thing to do would be to remove the +45 year old embargo & illegal, extraterritorial  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 09:05 AM   #93 
      this is the kind of post I like to see at DU -- chock full of info, I'll need to read more closely  cloudythescribbler   Feb-19-08 10:54 AM   #133 
         Judi Lynn is truly an asset. n/t  ronnie624   Feb-20-08 02:16 AM   #296 
      And which track would that be.  edwardlindy   Feb-19-08 10:22 AM   #117 
      Ending the embargo would allow Cuba to find its own track  slackmaster   Feb-19-08 10:29 AM   #123 
      See post #155.  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 04:18 PM   #244 
         In fact, yes.  Hannah Bell   Feb-19-08 04:30 PM   #248 
         Then why are refugees leaving  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 04:47 PM   #251 
            They're not.  Hannah Bell   Feb-19-08 06:43 PM   #279 
               Please elaborate.  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 07:03 PM   #281 
         That isn't the issue  edwardlindy   Feb-19-08 08:10 PM   #282 
            I understand that.  Kajsa   Feb-20-08 10:55 AM   #308 
      I Suspect That Cuba Is Heading Into the EU's Economic Orbit  VogonGlory   Feb-19-08 10:23 AM   #119 
      There is already the situation  edwardlindy   Feb-19-08 10:40 AM   #127 
      Yep. No convertable dollar in Cuba. Now its only Euros & Cuban pesos. n/t  Mika   Feb-19-08 11:24 AM   #143 
         That's simply because they don't want US$  edwardlindy   Feb-19-08 08:16 PM   #283 
      Maybe Cuba can get US back on track.  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 12:58 PM   #176 
      LOL . Lord knows someone has to get the US back on track.  lumpy   Feb-19-08 02:16 PM   #216 
      No, Cubans can get on their own track all by their lonesomes, sez me. n/t  eridani   Feb-20-08 12:41 AM   #294 
   Wow!  SeattleGirl   Feb-19-08 04:10 AM   #47 
   Mexico reaches deal with Havana to restructure Cuban debt  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 05:17 AM   #52 
   whatever happens in Cuba-let's hope the USA stays the hell away  Swagman   Feb-19-08 05:31 AM   #54 
   Fat chance. They're dusting off the Shock Doctrine right now.  Winebrat   Feb-19-08 11:06 AM   #137 
      Cubans have been inoculated against shock doctrine.  Mika   Feb-19-08 11:29 AM   #147 
         We'll see  Winebrat   Feb-19-08 12:01 PM   #157 
   Embargoes, Blacklists and Assassination Plots: Bush's New Cuba Plan  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 05:33 AM   #55 
   Lol that reminds me...  jeff30997   Feb-19-08 05:49 AM   #57 
      Here's a photo you might find amusing, from Agence France-Presse:  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 07:07 AM   #64 
         Front page news in Cuba,  kgfnally   Feb-19-08 12:38 PM   #166 
            I'm sure not one of them.  Kajsa   Feb-19-08 03:51 PM   #236 
               "(Ha!) "  jeff30997   Feb-19-08 06:39 PM   #277 
   He could have waited a little bit.  jeff30997   Feb-19-08 05:43 AM   #56 
   I know what you are thinking. Bush will take the "credit."  onehandle   Feb-19-08 07:19 AM   #66 
      Never fear. Bush has lost credibility within the thinking  lumpy   Feb-19-08 02:22 PM   #218 
   We've already got the cruise ships set up in Key West just waiting for the US  soothsayer   Feb-19-08 06:21 AM   #58 
   Wonder how that will work with Bush's travel ban to Cuba? He has tightened it to the point  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 06:59 AM   #61 
   ummm...the cruise ships would be lining up to travel to Cuba with American tourists  Bacchus39   Feb-19-08 08:46 AM   #86 
      That would not be possible until Congress removes the travel ban.  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 08:53 AM   #89 
      Read: there will be no instantaneous change in US-Cuba relations  Bacchus39   Feb-19-08 08:57 AM   #92 
         Then what do you suggest is the purpose of the flotillas the "exiles" have been discussing and  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 09:08 AM   #95 
         I have no idea, you are the expert  Bacchus39   Feb-19-08 10:35 AM   #126 
         Where WOULD the cruise ships be going, if they are in American ports?  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 09:19 AM   #100 
            again, as long as the governmental system and tight controls remain in Cuba  Bacchus39   Feb-19-08 10:34 AM   #125 
   No Cruise Ships For A Few Years Yet  VogonGlory   Feb-19-08 10:02 AM   #107 
   Good f*ing riddance, despot.  robcon   Feb-19-08 06:53 AM   #60 
   You sound like a republican  olddad56   Feb-19-08 11:02 AM   #136 
      Many democrats feel that way, I do. He is a despot.  mcg   Feb-19-08 11:18 PM   #290 
   I can count on DU as the best for latest breaking news.  mia   Feb-19-08 07:09 AM   #65 
   I remember a Letterman line where he said  mac56   Feb-19-08 07:31 AM   #67 
   HAH!  zanne   Feb-19-08 07:46 AM   #74 
   He resigned because knuklehead attacked Iraq  tinymontgomery   Feb-19-08 07:44 AM   #72 
   Too Bad It Happened On Bush's Watch  From The Left   Feb-19-08 08:09 AM   #80 
   Just like Reagan cashed in on the Soviet Union as it already was going south  YOY   Feb-19-08 09:06 AM   #94 
      So True. Wingtards Still Credit St. Reagan for the Collapse of Commism  From The Left   Feb-19-08 09:33 AM   #103 
   WE WIN!!!!  underpants   Feb-19-08 08:25 AM   #81 
   "We Win"? Who is "we" and What Does "We" Win, underpants?  fascisthunter   Feb-19-08 09:18 AM   #97 
      WE WIN!!!  underpants   Feb-19-08 10:06 AM   #109 
         lol.... so true, underpants  fascisthunter   Feb-19-08 10:09 AM   #111 
         All I can think is, he did it. He didn't sell out Cuba to the US  sfexpat2000   Feb-19-08 02:19 PM   #217 
   BREAKING: Bush orders Reagan exhumed to get tips on taking credit for resignation  Lastlaughin08   Feb-19-08 08:27 AM   #82 
   The Republican slant  The Wizard   Feb-19-08 08:29 AM   #83 
   A shame. Hasta la victoria siempre, Fidel!  Tarc   Feb-19-08 08:30 AM   #84 
   If they lose Fidel Castro, they got nada!They've been hating Fidel Castro too long to turn back now.  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 08:51 AM   #87 
   Don't Fret, Judi, they have Chavez Now  fascisthunter   Feb-19-08 09:20 AM   #101 
      Riiiight! And Evo Morales is on the deck behind him. They have been doing some preliminary  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 09:35 AM   #104 
         Perception is Changing Judi.... Take Me for Instance  fascisthunter   Feb-19-08 10:11 AM   #112 
            Really hope you're right. The success of this smoke screen concerning Cuba depends on getting  Judi Lynn   Feb-20-08 05:48 AM   #297 
   A shame but it will show the world the will of the people of Cuba  harun   Feb-19-08 09:41 AM   #106 
      That is a truly great picture  edwardlindy   Feb-19-08 10:48 AM   #131 
   SOME COUNTRIES HAVE ALL THE LUCK.!!!!  sandrakae   Feb-19-08 08:55 AM   #91 
   He retires undefeated by the US.  BlooInBloo   Feb-19-08 09:18 AM   #99 
   That includes unpoisoned, and un-exploded, no thanks to the C.I.A.!  Judi Lynn   Feb-19-08 09:27 AM   #102 
   Bush says: "This will end staged elections"  bpeale   Feb-19-08 10:03 AM   #108 
   Castro kicked the MAFIA out of Cuba, and the MAFIA is still the entity that  loudsue   Feb-19-08 10:12 AM   #113 
   I hear you!  KansDem   Feb-19-08 01:26 PM   #190 
   Well, you can only imprison so many journalists....  The Onyx Key   Feb-19-08 10:16 AM   #114 
   Ever BEEN to Cuba?  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 11:56 AM   #156 
   Why inprison them when you can blow them up?  Mik T   Feb-19-08 05:33 PM   #266 
   Bush Greets Castro Resignation  Scurrilous   Feb-19-08 10:17 AM   #115 
   Pot calling the kettle....................  edwardlindy   Feb-19-08 10:46 AM   #129 
   Bush and his henchmen belong to The Hague. Nowhere else  SpikeTss   Feb-19-08 01:07 PM   #178 
      The Hague is a city in the Netherlands.  deaniac21   Feb-20-08 09:26 AM   #302 
   With recent Cuban Oil Field find, intrepid C.I.A. Eagerly Plans Bloody Coup.....  Broadslidin   Feb-19-08 10:55 AM   #134 
   A new excuse to feed the wild hogs with taxpayers money  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 11:30 AM   #148 
   When will elections be held?  bluestateguy   Feb-19-08 12:10 PM   #161 
   last month  AlphaCentauri   Feb-19-08 01:15 PM   #182 
   It sounds as if Castro's medical condition has stabilized.  deaniac21   Feb-19-08 03:27 PM   #233 
   One less homophobe with power in the world.  otherlander   Feb-19-08 04:03 PM   #238 
   Y si caigo  Hannah Bell   Feb-19-08 04:15 PM   #243 
   Good riddence to another dictator.  superconnected   Feb-19-08 04:24 PM   #246 
   yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn  GirlinContempt   Feb-19-08 05:10 PM   #252 
   Ailing Castro steps down as Cuba’s president  Dr_eldritch   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #254 
   Raul is 76 -- 76 -- that means he won't be president long  ixion   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #255 
   Depends on where Raul  hyphenate   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #257 
   Do Fidel or  sabbat hunter   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #259 
   It's a dictatorship, not a monarchy.  NCevilDUer   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #260 
      syria  sabbat hunter   Feb-19-08 09:38 PM   #289 
         Syria is also a Baathist fascist state, not a 'People's Republic'.  NCevilDUer   Feb-20-08 12:44 AM   #295 
            what about  sabbat hunter   Feb-20-08 11:56 AM   #310 
               Again, a different dynamic. NK was never a real communist state,  NCevilDUer   Feb-20-08 12:15 PM   #311 
                  actually  sabbat hunter   Feb-20-08 12:37 PM   #312 
   Long enough to keep Communism from falling during chimpy's reign.  onehandle   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #261 
   That was my first thought. If Castro insists in keeping it in the family,  Rhiannon12866   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #262 
   Don't know  hyphenate   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #256 
      Lobbyists have been wooing Cuban leaders for years...  Dr_eldritch   Feb-19-08 05:17 PM   #258 
   He's dead Jim  ohio2007   Feb-19-08 06:10 PM   #271 
   Florida congress critter looks to file murder chargers against Castro...  calipendence   Feb-19-08 06:53 PM   #280 
   Not exactly unexpected  Canuckistanian   Feb-19-08 08:46 PM   #286 
   A job well done!  JVS   Feb-20-08 06:37 AM   #298 
 

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