haele
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Sun Dec-09-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
| 68. Say instead Religion is one of the primary excuses - |
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It really all boils down to "us against them" - and fearful people will use Religion as evidence to determine who "them" is. The reason for War is desire for power, fear of losing power, and hate of the unknown. Every dictator, every leader, whether they claimed to be defending their faith or lack of a particular faith used religion as a scapegoat to wage war or initiate unjust actions. When faith is no longer a personal choice and becomes public policy, you know there's either a war or a pogrom that will be coming up soon.
Don't give those who feel the need to project their religious choices throughout history into a discussion a chance to muddy it. Fear -(known to many of my religious friends as "Anti-Faith") is the real killer of morals. Whether you're Atheist or Faithful, if you aren't afraid - of loss of community status, loss of power, loss of "face", loss of your resources - you'll be less likely to be brutal or hateful to the different than if you are fearful.
Both Torquemada and Stalin shared the same excuses - They wanted personal power and were so afraid of being challenged, they became brutal and murderous. Didn't matter what religious state they personally lived in, they were driven by fear. The only difference is which side of their personal beliefs concerning religion they used as an excuse to rally or exclude their people.
Haele
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| -Imam's daughter in hiding after her conversion to Christianity sparked death threats |
seriousstan |
Dec-08-07 11:14 AM |
#0 |
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Pick a religion, any religion-the fanatics are the same. |
hobbit709 |
Dec-08-07 11:15 AM |
#1 |
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Bullshit. Start citing examples where holy texts state that converting to another religion is |
seriousstan |
Dec-08-07 11:20 AM |
# |
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Nothing to do with holy texts |
hobbit709 |
Dec-08-07 11:26 AM |
#4 |
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That was hundreds of years ago. |
pennylane100 |
Dec-08-07 11:41 AM |
#7 |
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One response-Abortion clinic bombers. |
hobbit709 |
Dec-08-07 11:43 AM |
#9 |
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We are talking about a religion that calls for the death of those who leave it. |
seriousstan |
Dec-08-07 11:58 AM |
#13 |
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The Koran doesn't call for it. |
yibbehobba |
Dec-10-07 08:27 AM |
#87 |
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I agree that abortion clinic bombers are fanatic killers |
pennylane100 |
Dec-08-07 11:59 AM |
#15 |
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How many muslim countries can you name |
CJCRANE |
Dec-08-07 12:11 PM |
#19 |
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and that has to do with what? |
pennylane100 |
Dec-08-07 12:24 PM |
#25 |
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It's important because I think you're generalising. |
CJCRANE |
Dec-08-07 12:28 PM |
#26 |
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Ask the nineteen year old woman who has just been sentenced to 200 lashes |
pennylane100 |
Dec-08-07 12:38 PM |
#27 |
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There are 56 muslim majority countries*. |
CJCRANE |
Dec-08-07 12:47 PM |
#28 |
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In Egypt, converts to Christianity are imprisoned. |
JDPriestly |
Dec-08-07 04:32 PM |
#41 |
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The difference is that Sharia law |
leftynyc |
Dec-08-07 05:03 PM |
#44 |
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Which is why we must keep Church and State separate... |
GoddessOfGuinness |
Dec-08-07 08:14 PM |
#51 |
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There are idiots aplenty who would love to see Britain under Sharia law. |
yibbehobba |
Dec-10-07 08:08 AM |
#85 |
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Exactly! |
LeftishBrit |
Dec-12-07 09:39 AM |
#112 |
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No it's not. As per my post above |
CJCRANE |
Dec-08-07 12:10 PM |
#18 |
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Name the other major religions. No major religions? Name the minor non-islamic religions. |
seriousstan |
Dec-08-07 12:12 PM |
#20 |
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I already named two major religions. |
CJCRANE |
Dec-08-07 12:16 PM |
#22 |
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All making those threats should be deported back to original country |
LiberalFighter |
Dec-08-07 01:26 PM |
#32 |
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I agree with your last sentence |
treestar |
Dec-09-07 01:19 PM |
#69 |
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Not to defend barbarity, but I think you are forgetting the religious strife of N. Ireland. |
tom_paine |
Dec-10-07 08:06 AM |
#84 |
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That was more of a war over turf not simply on faith |
Marrah_G |
Dec-10-07 10:23 AM |
#93 |
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Nowhere in the New Testament is violence against non-believers encouraged. |
Zynx |
Dec-08-07 11:46 AM |
#11 |
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Notice how all these fundie so-called Christians |
hobbit709 |
Dec-08-07 12:02 PM |
#16 |
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You really have a hard time concentrating,don't you? ADD? |
seriousstan |
Dec-08-07 12:07 PM |
#17 |
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You can't comprehend what I said |
hobbit709 |
Dec-08-07 12:15 PM |
#21 |
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I've personally met so-called "mainstream" non-fundie christians |
kgfnally |
Dec-08-07 12:23 PM |
#24 |
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that doesn't sound like any of the mainstream Christians I know |
dwickham |
Dec-11-07 11:15 PM |
#110 |
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Oh horsecrap - Maybe a Fred Phelps type - That's about it. |
pegleg |
Dec-08-07 03:58 PM |
#38 |
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Paul of Tarsus was quite a bigot, and the Book of Revelation is a book of revenge |
IndianaGreen |
Dec-08-07 10:09 PM |
#56 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-11-07 01:11 PM |
#106 |
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There is the cultural element too. |
CJCRANE |
Dec-08-07 11:32 AM |
#5 |
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ALL religions put women down, keep women down |
donsu |
Dec-08-07 11:37 AM |
#6 |
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There is a huge difference between putting someone down and FUCKING KILLING THEM! |
seriousstan |
Dec-08-07 11:56 AM |
#12 |
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I'll be sure to tell my female pastor that |
spoony |
Dec-10-07 07:15 AM |
#80 |
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NO-- All religions DO NOT |
Marrah_G |
Dec-10-07 10:42 AM |
#95 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-08-07 04:54 PM |
#43 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-08-07 05:12 PM |
#45 |
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This is not generally true of Islam |
Oak2004 |
Dec-10-07 12:32 PM |
#100 |
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Abortion Doctor Killings, |
Taverner |
Dec-10-07 12:44 PM |
#101 |
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I changed religion at the age of 17-18. My parents were |
JDPriestly |
Dec-08-07 04:24 PM |
#39 |
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You need to hear more... |
dmallind |
Dec-08-07 07:58 PM |
#49 |
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So atheism is a religion when it's convenient, then? |
spoony |
Dec-10-07 07:16 AM |
#81 |
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...or a philosophy, or a political position, or even a hobby |
LanternWaste |
Dec-10-07 07:57 AM |
#83 |
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don't let the religiously insane men get away with this crap |
donsu |
Dec-08-07 11:16 AM |
#2 |
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This is some pretty sick shit. |
Lasher |
Dec-08-07 11:20 AM |
#3 |
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Of course it's all against the law |
PaulaFarrell |
Dec-08-07 11:58 AM |
#14 |
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OK thanks Paula |
Lasher |
Dec-08-07 01:44 PM |
#33 |
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DU believers take note: THIS is anti-Christian persecution |
dmallind |
Dec-08-07 11:42 AM |
#8 |
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??? |
brentspeak |
Dec-08-07 12:17 PM |
#23 |
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Well that would be one question |
dmallind |
Dec-08-07 12:49 PM |
#29 |
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Christians have been at the forefront of persecution, intolerance, and holocausts |
IndianaGreen |
Dec-08-07 10:07 PM |
#55 |
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Ok. I'll keep my mouth shut if I ever witness.. |
LanternWaste |
Dec-10-07 10:52 AM |
#97 |
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Sad. n/t |
ChazII |
Dec-08-07 11:45 AM |
#10 |
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Primitive tribal crap |
kurth |
Dec-08-07 01:22 PM |
#30 |
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Send them back. |
Heywoodj |
Dec-08-07 10:02 PM |
#54 |
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UK law certainly provides for serious criminals from abroad being deported after their sentences |
LeftishBrit |
Dec-09-07 11:08 AM |
#67 |
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A young Palestinian woman living in St Louis was killed |
ikojo |
Dec-09-07 09:57 AM |
#63 |
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And we're letting shit like that into our country |
kurth |
Dec-09-07 10:50 AM |
#66 |
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I remember that - so sad. |
bitchkitty |
Dec-10-07 10:38 AM |
#94 |
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it's just a minority guys |
boricua79 |
Dec-08-07 01:24 PM |
#31 |
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It's not a minority |
nebula |
Dec-08-07 03:38 PM |
#35 |
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finally someone notices it |
boricua79 |
Dec-08-07 11:44 PM |
#59 |
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The question is: how constructive is it for outsiders like us to call for reform/enlightenment? |
JVS |
Dec-09-07 10:16 AM |
#65 |
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I see your point, however, |
leftynyc |
Dec-10-07 07:10 AM |
#79 |
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I would say that the other option is to look for voices within their society that speak out... |
JVS |
Dec-10-07 05:05 PM |
#105 |
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I don't think of myself as an 'outsider'. I'm a woman caring about other women |
donsu |
Dec-10-07 11:51 AM |
#99 |
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Well middle-eastern muslims almost certainly would consider you an outsider. |
JVS |
Dec-10-07 05:04 PM |
#104 |
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Who could blame her for converting to any religion or non-religion |
Dorian Gray |
Dec-08-07 03:17 PM |
#34 |
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Religion, the real reason we fight Wars. |
sarcasmo |
Dec-08-07 03:46 PM |
#36 |
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So atheistic nations don't fight wars ? |
pegleg |
Dec-08-07 03:54 PM |
#37 |
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Say instead Religion is one of the primary excuses - |
haele |
Dec-09-07 01:11 PM |
#68 |
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Land and resources. |
Marrah_G |
Dec-10-07 10:42 AM |
#96 |
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This is a disgusting situation |
LeftishBrit |
Dec-08-07 04:27 PM |
#40 |
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Sounds like her family has some issues. |
Turbineguy |
Dec-08-07 04:42 PM |
#42 |
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And the Imam and this womans brother are not in jail because??? |
rpannier |
Dec-08-07 06:16 PM |
#46 |
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Islam is very hardcore on people leaving the fold. |
hollowdweller |
Dec-08-07 06:17 PM |
#47 |
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"Significant minority." |
yibbehobba |
Dec-10-07 08:32 AM |
#88 |
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All muslim scholars I tried to argue with avoid this question like hell : |
UndertheOcean |
Dec-08-07 07:12 PM |
#48 |
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I hope she stays safe |
SillyFlower |
Dec-08-07 08:12 PM |
#50 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-08-07 08:57 PM |
#52 |
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Christians won't call for her death if she decides to leave that religion. |
seriousstan |
Dec-08-07 09:25 PM |
#53 |
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You really go out of your way to promote the democratic party cause |
eagler |
Dec-08-07 10:57 PM |
#57 |
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"equally deplorable religion".... |
India3 |
Dec-08-07 11:26 PM |
#58 |
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But maybe that's because of the differences in the cultures |
treestar |
Dec-09-07 01:27 PM |
#70 |
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You make one good point, and one weak one... |
India3 |
Dec-09-07 02:53 PM |
#73 |
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We're not talking about Muslims in a Muslim country. |
yibbehobba |
Dec-10-07 08:17 AM |
#86 |
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The F bomb really makes your point, doesn't it? |
treestar |
Dec-10-07 09:00 AM |
#91 |
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This isn't a Muslim (or otherwise religious) country |
LeftishBrit |
Dec-10-07 03:53 PM |
#102 |
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The replies to these threads are so predictable. |
cigsandcoffee |
Dec-09-07 01:17 AM |
#60 |
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Well said |
SillyFlower |
Dec-09-07 08:09 AM |
#61 |
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pc crowd needs "rose colored glasses" to ignore the obvious |
ohio2007 |
Dec-09-07 08:27 AM |
#62 |
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I totally agree with you on all the PC bullshit. |
Odin2005 |
Dec-09-07 05:29 PM |
#74 |
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Well said |
rpannier |
Dec-10-07 03:53 AM |
#78 |
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Bravo and amen |
leftynyc |
Dec-10-07 07:17 AM |
#82 |
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"A special problem". |
mainegreen |
Dec-10-07 11:05 AM |
#98 |
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Isn't this the kind of thing that Pope Benedict XVI was talking about when people got super-pissed? |
JVS |
Dec-09-07 10:12 AM |
#64 |
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No, he wasn't talking about anything specific at all |
treestar |
Dec-09-07 01:29 PM |
#71 |
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Right now, Islam is "worse" than other religions. |
cigsandcoffee |
Dec-09-07 02:25 PM |
#72 |
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It's still not worth condemning the whole religion over |
treestar |
Dec-09-07 06:01 PM |
#75 |
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Nobody is "condemning the whole religion." |
cigsandcoffee |
Dec-09-07 07:31 PM |
#76 |
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Somali Women: 'We don't want any Christians and Ethiopians inside our country |
ohio2007 |
Dec-09-07 07:43 PM |
#77 |
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I think you are trying to imply one religion is worse than others |
treestar |
Dec-10-07 08:57 AM |
#90 |
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The Dominionist bit is a red herring. |
cigsandcoffee |
Dec-11-07 11:11 PM |
#109 |
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Yes. It IS worse. But not by any merits of Christianity, mind you. |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Dec-10-07 08:42 AM |
#89 |
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I'm curious. Why go hard after Christianity while sticking up for Islam? |
cigsandcoffee |
Dec-11-07 11:05 PM |
#108 |
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"Sticking up?" Obvious moderation? Openly hostile? Chip on shoulder much? |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Dec-17-07 07:40 AM |
#113 |
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Right. Sure it did. |
theredpen |
Dec-17-07 02:10 PM |
#115 |
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Can he not be arrested for stalking or threats or something? |
Marrah_G |
Dec-10-07 10:17 AM |
#92 |
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Yes. He can. And very likely will. |
LeftishBrit |
Dec-10-07 03:57 PM |
#103 |
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And now in Canada... |
cigsandcoffee |
Dec-11-07 11:03 PM |
#107 |
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Yes, but Christianity is much worse!* |
DuStrange |
Dec-17-07 11:28 AM |
#114 |
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Islam may not be a religion of violence |
dwickham |
Dec-11-07 11:16 PM |
#111 |
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How many Muslims live in the UK? And... |
High Plains |
Dec-17-07 02:19 PM |
#116 |