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Reply #44: Interesting question because the rights I mean are what protect the minority in a democratic [View All]

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Interesting question because the rights I mean are what protect the minority in a democratic
government or any other government from the tyranny of 50% of the vote plus one, i.e. simple majority.

A good place to start, are the summaries below at wikepedia.

FindLaw defines right as 1 a: qualities (as adherence to duty or obedience to lawful authority) that together constitute the ideal of moral propriety or merit moral approval.

Natural rights
FindLaw defines natural right as a right considered to be conferred by natural law.

Inalienable rights
FindLaw defines inalienable as incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred. The definition of unalienable is not alienable: inalienable".

Human Rights

Universal Declaration of Human Rights is important and Wikipedia begins with:
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (abbreviated UDHR) is an advisory declaration adopted by the United Nations General Assembly (A/RES/217, 10 December 1948 at Palais de Chaillot, Paris). It consists of 30 articles which outline the view of the United Nations General Assembly on the human rights guaranteed to all people. Eleanor Roosevelt, first chairwoman of the Commission on Human Rights (CHR) that drafted the Declaration, said, "It is not a treaty...(In the future, it) may well become the international Magna Carta..."

For the U.S., the founders rejected the divine right of kings where citizens depended upon the whims of a monarch for rights and declared in the Declaration of Independence (1776), We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

The original states incorporated statements protecting rights in their constitutions, e. g. Pennsylvania (1776) said in A DECLARATION OF THE RIGHTS OF THE INHABITANTS OF THE COMMONWEALTH OR STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA, I. That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, amongst which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

Vermont (1777) followed Pennsylvanias lead and said A DECLARATION OF THE RIGHTS OF THE INHABITANTS OF THE STATE OF VERMONT, I. THAT all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and unalienable rights, amongst which are the enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.]

Note that the statements of Pennsylvania and Vermont are identical except for the word inalienable replaced by unalienable an issue that occurred also with the authors of the Declaration of Independence.

I use the topic often when discussing the right to keep and bear arms for the following reasons.

Pennsylvania adopted its constitution on 28 Sep 1776 and ratified our Constitution on 12 December 1787. That constitution included the protection, "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

Pennsylvania ratified the Bill of Rights on 10 March 1790 and with contemporaneous knowledge of the Second Amendment, PA modified its constitution that took effect on 2 Sept. 1790 to say "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

As an inalienable right it is impossible for PA citizens to give the right of self-defense away when they ratified our Constitution or when they ratified the Bill of Rights. PA citizens acknowledged that fact by retaining the right of self-defense in their constitution when they modified it just five months after they ratified the Bill of Rights.

Either an individuals natural, inherent and inalienable right to keep and bear arms for self-defense is protected by the Second Amendment as one of the enumerated rights or it is protected by the Ninth Amendment as an un-enumerated right.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

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  -American Girls' Suicide Rates Jump Hissyspit  Sep-06-07 12:03 PM   #0 
  - Since "hanging surpassed guns", gun-grabbers should call for a ban on rope.  jody   Sep-06-07 12:05 PM   #1 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-07 12:31 PM   #9 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Sep-06-07 12:35 PM   #10 
  - You're implying that teenage girls should have access to firearms?  depakid   Sep-06-07 01:43 PM   #16 
  - No, I believe suicide is a tragic affair. I understand why people might be driven to that act  jody   Sep-06-07 02:06 PM   #18 
     - Actually, I think the argument goes more like this:  depakid   Sep-06-07 02:58 PM   #21 
     - Your reference to "households with guns" has been debunked so many times on DU's Guns forum that I  jody   Sep-06-07 03:24 PM   #24 
        - Not only hasn't it been debunked-  depakid   Sep-06-07 03:26 PM   #25 
           - NO,it takes a person without any common sense to keep repeating it. n/t  jody   Sep-06-07 03:29 PM   #26 
              - You're funny.  ThomCat   Sep-07-07 03:17 PM   #49 
                 - What study are you talking about? I'll be very surprised if you can provide a link. n/t  jody   Sep-07-07 04:11 PM   #50 
                    - I'll call your bluff.  ThomCat   Sep-07-07 04:31 PM   #51 
                       - Surely you can do better than that. The issue was "households with guns" so cite a study that  jody   Sep-07-07 04:39 PM   #52 
                          - That's already addressed on the Brady fact sheet.  ThomCat   Sep-07-07 04:40 PM   #53 
                             - Which study do you mean or don't you know? n/t  jody   Sep-07-07 04:41 PM   #54 
                                - What game are you playing.  ThomCat   Sep-07-07 04:52 PM   #55 
                                   - Thanks, and the debunking of Kellermann's flawed research can be found at the links below.  jody   Sep-07-07 05:07 PM   #56 
                                      - That's not a debunking.  ThomCat   Sep-07-07 06:45 PM   #59 
                                         - "flawed counterarguments", that's the funniest joke I've heard all day. Anyone with minimal research  jody   Sep-07-07 07:06 PM   #60 
     - I think the problem is people using guns to kill others not themselves.  superconnected   Sep-06-07 04:11 PM   #28 
        - That's my problem also but it's criminals killing law-abiding citizens that disturb me most. SCOTUS  jody   Sep-06-07 06:24 PM   #31 
           - What is a natural right?  tabasco   Sep-07-07 01:15 AM   #41 
              - Interesting question because the rights I mean are what protect the minority in a democratic  jody   Sep-07-07 06:30 AM   #44 
  - You cannot shoot children across the street with rope .....  Trajan   Sep-07-07 02:10 AM   #42 
  - You must have missed the story on LBN last week  krispos42   Sep-07-07 09:24 AM   #47 
  - thats a pretty dumbass comment  lakeguy   Sep-08-07 07:27 PM   #66 
  - Quote: "That's a rate of fewer than one per 100,000 population." nt  bemildred   Sep-06-07 12:05 PM   #2 
  - So very sad  lovuian   Sep-06-07 12:06 PM   #3 
  - jeezus, hanging? As popularized by the US puppets in Iraq?  soothsayer   Sep-06-07 12:08 PM   #4 
  - i knew who child who tried to commit suicide by hanging, age 8, in the 70s  pitohui   Sep-06-07 02:56 PM   #20 
     - KINKY SEX asphyxiaphilia  Maq   Sep-06-07 09:13 PM   #35 
  - The future does not look so bright  mogster   Sep-06-07 12:11 PM   #5 
  - Not too far off - disillusionment with government in the 60's and 70's was a factor...  Taverner   Sep-06-07 12:26 PM   #7 
  - Much more likely to be the breakdown of the family  Sadie4629   Sep-06-07 12:31 PM   #8 
     - That's a good point  mogster   Sep-06-07 12:54 PM   #12 
     - I don't know.  NOLALady   Sep-06-07 02:53 PM   #19 
        - We were much more aware of politics back then  Le Taz Hot   Sep-07-07 08:00 AM   #46 
  - This is a switch, in the 1970s the switch was poison to guns for women  happyslug   Sep-06-07 12:23 PM   #6 
  - How is that determined? I'm just curious.  SimpleTrend   Sep-06-07 01:12 PM   #14 
  - It is more the FAILED attempts then the successful ones  happyslug   Sep-06-07 03:48 PM   #27 
     - That's "attempted suicide" then.  SimpleTrend   Sep-06-07 04:32 PM   #30 
  - Never assume an unsuccessful suicide attempt is just a cry for help,  DemBones DemBones   Sep-07-07 07:27 PM   #61 
  - Boys rate still 4x that of girls  AngryAmish   Sep-06-07 12:40 PM   #11 
  - I was also noticing the numbers. You'd think they'd make the problem  superconnected   Sep-06-07 04:15 PM   #29 
     - "You'd think they'd make the problem of boys killing themselves the focal point..."  BlueIris   Sep-06-07 08:47 PM   #33 
        - It shouldn't be.  superconnected   Sep-06-07 08:58 PM   #34 
  - Actually, I have a different take on this.....  AnneD   Sep-06-07 12:59 PM   #13 
  - i had a comment on this in post 24  pitohui   Sep-06-07 03:00 PM   #22 
     - Check the post times....  AnneD   Sep-06-07 09:46 PM   #36 
        - AnneD see asphyxiaphilia  Maq   Sep-06-07 09:51 PM   #37 
        - I am familiar with it.....  AnneD   Sep-06-07 10:00 PM   #38 
        - pills have not been the preferred method of suicide for many years, read the article  pitohui   Sep-07-07 05:41 PM   #57 
           - I stand by what I wrote.....  AnneD   Sep-07-07 08:24 PM   #64 
  - Could it be because they are medicated and trying to get off the meds? nt  MookieWilson   Sep-06-07 01:18 PM   #15 
  - That could be a large part  NOLALady   Sep-06-07 03:09 PM   #23 
  - Teenage girls do mature faster than teenage boys  tom_paine   Sep-06-07 01:51 PM   #17 
  - That's a constant. nt  MookieWilson   Sep-06-07 10:22 PM   #39 
  - Stats give me a headache. By using the overall numbers the  Feeney2   Sep-06-07 06:36 PM   #32 
  - Kick.  BlueIris   Sep-07-07 01:08 AM   #40 
  - Memo to the anti-gunners:  silverojo   Sep-07-07 04:53 AM   #43 
  - I agree- I wish that nut in VA would have had access to rope instead of guns.  Dr Fate   Sep-07-07 01:01 PM   #48 
  - You are so right. There are always one car "accidents"  DemBones DemBones   Sep-07-07 07:49 PM   #62 
  - Who has rope  raebrek   Sep-07-07 07:58 AM   #45 
  - everybody has rope at their house except you  pitohui   Sep-07-07 05:43 PM   #58 
     - Nope, I have no rope. What would I use it for? n/t  raebrek   Sep-08-07 07:51 AM   #65 
  - Yeah, this world sucks.  ryanmuegge   Sep-07-07 08:15 PM   #63 
  - American girls are still the best in the world...  leaninglib   Sep-08-07 10:47 PM   #67 

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