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Reply #12: You assume that something cannot have two attributes. [View All]

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. You assume that something cannot have two attributes.
Edited on Wed Aug-29-07 10:42 AM by igil
If a woman is young, she can't be pretty.

If an apple is ripe, it can't be wormy.

If opposition to illegal immigration is based in the rule of law, it can't be nativist.

As well.

But, of course it's not necessary for two attributes to be mutually exclusive. These two aren't even necessarily independent reasons, are they, so the idea of 'mutually exclusive' might well make no sense. I leave aside those who blindly want the law enforced because it's the law, with no further probing as to the why and how of the law.

Why do I say this? Because of the reasoning behind having immigration quotas in the first place--no quotas (with '0' being a possible quota) and you cannot have immigration that's illegal. But what kinds of reasoning can go into having immigration quotas?

Well, nativism and racism can certainly fit in there. But so could bureaucracy--the need to make sure you've registered all the in-comers, and with a limited bureaucracy you can only register so many. But you could also argue that every population has the right to defend its own cultural standards (the very reasoning used in defending numerous cultures against globalization and westernization/Americanization) or define what a healthy community looks like, or that there are times when it's economically useful to limit immigration, etc., etc. A person can ascribe to one or to more than one of those reasons.

If you go with some of those reasons--whether accurate or not--you can have a principled stand for reducing illegal immigration as well as reducing, or at least not increasing, legal immigration.

In other words, "we should all support increasing the number of legal immigrants who can enter the country from the Third World" only would be a consequence under *some* of the reasons, with opposition to such increases being a perfectly defensible position, at least in theory. Since there's a reasonable doubt as to the reasons for an anti-illegal-immigration advocate to have, in the absence of further information I stick with my reasonable doubt.
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  -Immigration arrests more than 160 in Ohio RamboLiberal  Aug-28-07 10:38 PM   #0 
  - If they would arrest just one (that John Birch worshipping KKK cocksucker Koch)...  ret5hd   Aug-28-07 10:41 PM   #1 
  - Simple Solution: Build the border fence, arrest employers that violate the law.......  Double T   Aug-28-07 10:46 PM   #2 
  - Much simpler than that...  Viva_La_Revolution   Aug-29-07 01:01 AM   #5 
  - Hard working people - trying to put in days work for a days pay to feed their family.  pingzing58   Aug-28-07 11:05 PM   #3 
  - yep  frylock   Aug-28-07 11:22 PM   #4 
  - I wonder if those who want all illegal workers deported,  pampango   Aug-29-07 08:21 AM   #8 
  - I'm not against increasing the number of legal immigrants...  knowledgeispwr   Aug-29-07 09:22 AM   #10 
  - I don't think that there is any "natural" or "logical" connection.  pampango   Aug-29-07 10:05 AM   #11 
  - You assume that something cannot have two attributes.  igil   Aug-29-07 10:41 AM   #12 
  - In answer to your question:  Zavulon   Aug-29-07 04:35 PM   #14 
  - With under-the-table earnings in many cases, as they  Zavulon   Aug-29-07 04:37 PM   #15 
     - And as long as there are jobs available, people will come here  dflprincess   Aug-29-07 10:07 PM   #24 
  - Here in Southern Cal I've seen employers  LibDemAlways   Aug-29-07 02:36 AM   #6 
  - Employers don't always know when they hire an illegal -  lynne   Aug-29-07 08:13 AM   #7 
  - See post 6 for the opposite case.  igil   Aug-29-07 10:57 AM   #13 
  - So true. I employed a bunch of mexicans, most legal and the ones ratted out  superconnected   Aug-29-07 07:19 PM   #22 
  - A lot of the workers have children  AngryOldDem   Aug-29-07 08:39 AM   #9 
  - Many cross the border to  Zavulon   Aug-29-07 04:38 PM   #16 
  - Looks like that chicken place will be hiring soon....  ohio2007   Aug-29-07 04:40 PM   #17 
  - What's a living wage?  toopers   Aug-29-07 06:37 PM   #18 
     - At least minimum wage.  mycritters2   Aug-29-07 06:44 PM   #19 
  - We should be arresting the CEO's of the companies that hire them.  bamacrat   Aug-29-07 06:45 PM   #20 
  - I wonder if most of them are going to end up being legal immigrants  superconnected   Aug-29-07 07:15 PM   #21 
  - Its amazing how so many just assume all illegals have fake  judaspriestess   Aug-29-07 07:40 PM   #23 
 

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