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Reply #62: The "know-how" is easy to come by [View All]

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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-03-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
62. The "know-how" is easy to come by
A number of years ago someone ran an experiment to see if physics undergrads could design nuclear weapons that would likely work. The answer was a resounding yes (obligatory disclosure here: I'm a former physics undergrad).

The Russians beat the predicted date of nuclear success because A) US officials were then far too confident in their ability to conceal scientific fact from the rest of the world (science isn't classifiable because the natural world, and human curiosity, are not classifiable, and America's nuclear scientists were warning the government as much at the time); but, more importantly, the Soviets had a network of very effective spies within the Manhattan Project, who handed the Soviets the bomb on a silver platter.

On the other hand, good bomb-grade nuclear material is not easy to come by. And packaging the device so that it can be delivered is another substantial hurdle.

It is conceivable that Iran could very quickly cobble together something that goes kaboom using whatever fissionable material they could chemically refine (chemistry is comparatively easy; isotope separation is a bear). Such a device could be exploded in the desert and used to scare the world, by or even before 2009 (I'd think an all-out, damn the IAEC, effort by Iran could build a crude bomb in a matter of months, something true for many countries with operating nuclear reactors). A device so made would not be particularly sophisticated (not that it would need to be, given the power of even a "small", inefficient atomic bomb), nor would it necessarily be deliverable. I suspect the North Korean nuke is/was a crude nuke of this sort.

Such a nuclear program would be immediately detected for exactly what it is by the international community. There are many, many controls in place under the NPT to detect crude programs of exactly this sort. No international monitoring group is saying that they are detecting such a program.

But even if one conceded that such a nuke is being made and that it would be, somehow, immediately mass produced and weaponized, there is no reason to think that Iran would then lob their new toy at anyone else in the world. Iran and its leaders know that some combination of the US, Russia, or China (depending upon where they lobbed their bomb) would promptly turn Iran into a smoldering, cockroach-occupied, heap. No purported Koran passages promise 99 virgins for stupidly inciting and losing a nuclear war, thus causing the deaths of millions of faithful Muslems. If Kim Jung Il can get it that his new toy is for show only, Iran's much saner (IMO) leadership would certainly get the picture.

As to terrorists getting the bomb-- it is a very big leap to believe that a sovereign state would voluntarily hand a bomb to terrorists. Why? If one were used it would quickly be traced back to its nation of origin (cue "smoldering, cockroach-infested, heap"). But more importantly, nation-states need to maintain, if not an utter monopoly on force, at least overwhelming superiority of force vis-a-vis their citizenry and any client states and organizations they may manage. Handing a nuclear weapon to a non-state group gives up that superiority in a very dangerous manner.

There's a difference in temperament between people in government, even authoritarian/totalitarian government, and members of extremist groups. Government leaders of all stripes have to govern, i.e. solve practical problems and make functional compromises, and leaders had to have successfully navigated cutthroat internal politics to get to the top (i.e. leaders are not naive, but cunning). Extremists don't need to bother with practical governance, and can rise in influence by becoming ever more extreme. Every government with client extremist groups understands perfectly well that the people they exploit to further their own agenda today are likely as not going to wake up tomorrow and decide that their sponsors are the real enemy for not being pure enough.

A fine example of how nation states don't hand out bombs is Pakistan and Al Qaeda. Virtually all of the people who have access to Pakistan's nuclear arsenal have close ties to Al Qaeda, yet it does not appear that Pakistan has turned a bomb over to the group. Al Qaeda may yet get their hands on a Pakistani bomb, but it likely will never be because the government of Pakistan knowingly and willfully gives it to them.

But all of the above might obscure the real truth here: No international body has said that Iran is trying to build a crude bomb. Everyone, the US included, says they are engaged in isotope separation, a component part of a sophisticated nuclear weapons program, but also something that can generate reactor fuel. It is known to everyone, international agencies included, that Iran has had a breakthrough with their centrifuge program. Yet no international agency, knowing this, has stated that an Iranian bomb is now imminent. Until a recognized international authority with on-the-ground information says Iran is about to build a bomb, I'm not believing it.

Russia has its own motives here: Iran hasn't paid them for some nuclear-related work Russia did for them. Russia has seemingly gotten on Bush's "nonproliferation" bandwagon (though Bush spells "nonproliferation" A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N H-E-G-E-M-O-N-Y) ever since Iran skipped out on it's payment. Watch: if and when Iran pays its bills, this same Russian expert will be telling us all that Iran isn't even trying to build a weapon and needs to be left alone to pursue it's dreams of environmentally sound energy or something.

What would the US really know about the matter of Iran's nuclear ambitions that international nonproliferation agencies don't know, anyway? We don't have good intelligence from there anymore: Cheney took down Brewster-Jennings.
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  -ABC News Exclusive: Iran Nuclear Bomb Could Be Possible by 2009 Purveyor  Apr-02-07 05:36 PM   #0 
  - Don't we have like 100K nukes?  WindRavenX   Apr-02-07 05:39 PM   #1 
  - We are required to disarm by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty -n/t  coalition_unwilling   Apr-02-07 06:46 PM   #21 
  - 10K to 20K nukes for us, 100 to 200 for Israel.  Tesha   Apr-02-07 06:52 PM   #24 
     - Did you mean *PNAC*, *PNAC*, *PNAC*!!!!?  Wilms   Apr-02-07 09:23 PM   #39 
        - Sorry, my typo. ;-). (NT)  Tesha   Apr-03-07 07:32 AM   #44 
  - i'd be more interested to hear the current prediction of when  lakeguy   Apr-02-07 05:42 PM   #2 
  - Where did ABC get this information???? From the WH and Rove?  Raven   Apr-02-07 05:42 PM   #3 
  - They got it from a CIA source called "Curve Ball"  IndianaGreen   Apr-02-07 05:44 PM   #5 
  - Hate week officially starts April 4th  IChing   Apr-02-07 05:45 PM   #6 
  - Tel Aviv would be my guess... eom  Purveyor   Apr-02-07 05:48 PM   #10 
  - Thats right! Our Intel community gets it wrong--AGAIN!!!  kurtyboy   Apr-03-07 08:11 AM   #46 
  - let them have some nukes - the 'balance of terror' is the best way to keep the peace  anotherdrew   Apr-02-07 05:44 PM   #4 
  - HOLY SHIT! BOMB THE BASTARDS NOW THEN, or at least by  whistle   Apr-02-07 05:46 PM   #7 
  - So does that mean we're supposed to be scared and elect a  Janice325   Apr-02-07 05:46 PM   #8 
  - And Good Friday is.......coming.......up!  Sequoia   Apr-02-07 05:48 PM   #9 
  - I call bullshit on ABC  cali   Apr-02-07 05:49 PM   #11 
  - they didn't say they could build a bomb by then, just that they could produce  John Q. Citizen   Apr-02-07 06:20 PM   #19 
  - I don't know why people think Iran can't make a bomb that quickly  msedita   Apr-02-07 07:26 PM   #28 
     - If you read up on it I think you might understand why the worlds nuclear  John Q. Citizen   Apr-02-07 08:45 PM   #36 
     - NK was helped by Pakistan  psychopomp   Apr-02-07 09:28 PM   #40 
  - ABC = All Bullshit Channel  harun   Apr-03-07 08:52 AM   #52 
     - or maybe All Bushit Channel?  indepat   Apr-03-07 09:17 AM   #55 
  - Isn't that the same ABC, which ran the lies about Clinton and Albright  MasonJar   Apr-02-07 05:53 PM   #12 
  - Pelosi to Knesset "Iran must not be allowed to obtain a nuclear weapon.  ben_meyers   Apr-02-07 05:56 PM   #13 
  - 2009, huh? January 20, 2009?  RC   Apr-02-07 05:58 PM   #14 
  - Hah! My thought exactly.  Canuckistanian   Apr-03-07 08:38 AM   #50 
  - Here's another Iran getting nukes article from today...  Eugene   Apr-02-07 05:58 PM   #15 
  - The "know-how" is easy to come by  Oak2004   Apr-03-07 11:37 PM   #62 
  - Possible? Sure. Anything is. Probable? Not likely. NT  Benhurst   Apr-02-07 06:01 PM   #16 
  - So F~c#ing what?  dweller   Apr-02-07 06:05 PM   #17 
  - That's gonna be tough to do without any fuel  youngdem   Apr-02-07 06:10 PM   #18 
  - That means we have to get them before thewy they get  azurnoir   Apr-02-07 06:39 PM   #20 
  - Didn't they also say that Iraq had WMD? Like I'm suppose to believe them. Give me a break.  IsItJustMe   Apr-02-07 06:49 PM   #22 
  - Booga booga booga (nt)  w4rma   Apr-02-07 06:50 PM   #23 
  - Good for them. nt.  Warren Stupidity   Apr-02-07 06:52 PM   #25 
  - So fucking what, ABC?  roamer65   Apr-02-07 07:15 PM   #26 
  - They are racheting up the propaganda.  Marie26   Apr-02-07 07:20 PM   #27 
  - Yes,  Delphinus   Apr-02-07 07:27 PM   #29 
     - Lamest sourcing ever  Marie26   Apr-02-07 08:55 PM   #37 
  - All Bush Channel catapults the Rovaganda  TOJ   Apr-02-07 07:35 PM   #30 
  - Take that Rosie!  Generator   Apr-02-07 07:57 PM   #31 
  - When will we stop worrying about nuclear weapons Iran MIGHT  hedgehog   Apr-02-07 08:02 PM   #32 
  - Blah blah blah threat blah war blah nuclear blah enrichment blah terror blah danger blah fear  truthisfreedom   Apr-02-07 08:03 PM   #33 
  - It could be, if they had started enriching 10 years ago.  MrSlayer   Apr-02-07 08:03 PM   #34 
  - Good. Our "intelligence experts" can't seem to predict for sh#t.  sfexpat2000   Apr-02-07 08:05 PM   #35 
  - Somebody had to take over for Judith Miller. n/t  Doremus   Apr-02-07 08:56 PM   #38 
  - EXACTLY what they said in the run up to the Iraq invasion. Remember?  Dover   Apr-03-07 01:31 AM   #41 
  - Which they? The GOP? Bush? Clinton?  MrPrax   Apr-03-07 08:37 AM   #49 
  - and cold fusion could be possible in my ass by 2008  NuttyFluffers   Apr-03-07 02:03 AM   #42 
  - fuck abc.  Algorem   Apr-03-07 02:43 AM   #43 
  - Be sure to use a condom; they've been hanging out with some...  Tesha   Apr-03-07 07:35 AM   #45 
  - Hopefully the Dems will be in office by then  gravity   Apr-03-07 08:12 AM   #47 
  - That changes everything. Bomb everyone.  Bragi   Apr-03-07 08:33 AM   #48 
  - That is one evil post  underpants   Apr-03-07 08:54 AM   #53 
  - Hear we go again with more BS to stir a panic  kaal   Apr-03-07 08:43 AM   #51 
  - more BS for the American public  alyce douglas   Apr-03-07 08:56 AM   #54 
  - ABCIA  mhatrw   Apr-03-07 10:57 AM   #56 
  - Bush wants them to have a nuclear bomb  bambino   Apr-03-07 11:10 AM   #57 
  - I guess that means Bush will nuke them first.  Acadia Blue   Apr-03-07 02:06 PM   #58 
  - Said By The Country That Dropped The First One.  Megahurtz   Apr-03-07 03:15 PM   #59 
  - nice propaganda  HuffleClaw   Apr-03-07 03:29 PM   #60 
     - ...yet the draft talk seems to be on the minds of congressman  ohio2007   Apr-03-07 06:39 PM   #61 
 

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