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Reply #63: NIST not recommending decertification of DRES [View All]

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
63. NIST not recommending decertification of DRES
This is what I gleaned from the executive summary

NIST is not recommending decertifying all DREs.

NIST is saying that paperless DRES should not be certified to 2007 standards.
NIST is recommending that 2007 standards for DREs require VVPATS
NIST also plans to write standards for independent verification systems.
NIST considers DREs with the VVPAT to be SI (software independent).

Some of the many acronyms used in the paper
DRE Direct Record Electronic, used in this paper to refer to current blackbox
IDV/IV Independent Dual Verification, shortened to Independent Verification
SI Software Independence or Independent
DRE-VVPAT A DRE with Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail voting system

NIST says systems should be Software Independent (DRES with VVPAT qualify)

(page 4)
Consequently, NIST and the STS
recommend that VVSG 2007 should require voting systems to be of the SI class, whose
readily available (albeit not always optimal) examples include op scan and DRE-VVPAT....

NIST says current paper based approaches can be approved and paperless systems
could also be developed:

The STS believes that current paper-based approaches can be improved
to be significantly more usable to voters and election officials, and that other kinds of allelectronic
IV (software IV) and E2E cryptographic systems may possibly achieve the goal of

(page 5)
secure paperless elections. However, for VVSG 2007, the STS judges that designs for these
new systems are still immature and that developing testable requirements for these
approaches is not yet feasible....

NIST describes current systems that are software independent:

3.1 Types of SI Voting Systems
There are several types of software-independent systems, however those that are readily
available today are paper-based. These are as follows:
1. Op scan using manually marked paper ballots
2. Op scan using an EBM, which can produce a richer user interface including support
for accessibility and alternative languages

(page 6)
These systems produce voter-verified paper records and are classified as software
independent because their electronic records or counts can be independently audited for
accuracy against the voter-verified paper records....

DRE-VVPAT works in somewhat the opposite way: the voting system creates an electronic
record of the voters choices at a touchscreen device and then prints a summary of the choices
on a sheet or roll of paper. The voter can then inspect the paper record to verify its accuracy
before finalizing the electronic record, and the paper record remains as an unchangeable
voter-verified audit trail that can be used in audits...

NIST says the DRE VVPAT, while not perfect, did ok in 2006 election

(page 8)
While some paper-based systems such as DRE-VVPAT are ripe for improvement, it appears that
the November 2006 elections did not have widespread problems in general with paper-based

NIST considers paperless SI methods, says there are two that
meet the requirements of SI :

(page 10)
4. Current Issues with Paperless SI Approaches

The pursuit of secure paperless SI approaches to voting systems has become an active
research goal and has resulted in several commercial devices14 that to some degree meet
requirements of SI. As described earlier, there are at present two types of paperless SI
systems: software IV and E2E....

NIST says should set 2007 standards for paperless verification systems
so that vendors will "innovate":

(page 11)
4.1. The Innovation Class

Requiring SI voting systems in VVSG 2007 effectively leaves only voter-verified paper-based
approaches for now. It is important, though, that new and innovative approaches to voting
systems be pursued, especially with regard to secure paperless approaches.
But, secure
paperless and other approaches are not likely to be pursued by vendors if testable
requirements and a certification path for them are not included in VVSG 2007....''

NIST says paperless DREs could still be purchased, but none
would be certified after 2009/2010, and in the near future only
methods with VVPAT would be certified. Leaves door open for black box on
top of the black box, and encryption.

(page 12)
5. Ramifications of Requiring SI

The most obvious ramification of requiring SI in VVSG 2007 is that paperless DREs could
not be certified to VVSG 2007. Purchase of paperless DREs would still be permitted,
but certification of new paperless DREs would be prohibited after, likely, 2009/2010 when
compliance with VVSG 2007 may be required15. This effectively leaves only voter-verified
paper approaches for certification in the near/foreseeable future, including op scan, EBM
devices, DRE-VVPAT, and, possibly, some E2E approaches....
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  - Can we have a big party  DoYouEverWonder   Nov-29-06 04:56 PM   #1 
  - na.. lets use them as skeet shoot targets  don954   Nov-29-06 06:18 PM   #29 
  - NIST not recommending decertification of DRES  WillYourVoteBCounted   Nov-29-06 09:33 PM   #63 
  - Let me be the first to recommend this post.  Fridays Child   Nov-29-06 04:58 PM   #2 
  - What a relief. This can only get better from here.  blm   Nov-29-06 04:58 PM   #3 
  - hallelujah  proud patriot   Nov-29-06 05:01 PM   #4 
  - I worked on election day 2006 in Columbus, OH  Botany   Nov-29-06 05:02 PM   #5 
  - Hey Botany:  mod mom   Nov-29-06 05:07 PM   #11 
     - Kilroy's people & lawyer are very aware of the 30 machines.  Botany   Nov-29-06 05:25 PM   #18 
        - Didn't you love how the Disgrace just placed it in the middle of the  mod mom   Nov-29-06 08:57 PM   #58 
        - Is this race settled?  Boxturtle   Nov-30-06 06:00 AM   #82 
           - Pryce's margin of victory is 1,000 votes (down from 3000)  Botany   Nov-30-06 07:19 AM   #85 
  - Please add:  partylessinOhio   Nov-29-06 05:05 PM   #6 
  - YES!!!! THANK YOU, ALL OF YOU WHO DID THIS FOR US!  coffeenap   Nov-29-06 05:06 PM   #7 
  - They are just a bunch of conspiracy crackpots!  eliphaslevi   Nov-29-06 05:07 PM   #8 
  - They're finally realizing what is obvious. Hooray!!! n/t  cui bono   Nov-29-06 05:07 PM   #9 
  - The NIST paper also noted that, "potentially, a single programmer could 'rig' a major election."  JudyM   Nov-29-06 05:07 PM   #10 
  - How do you know it's a "slight tinge of blue"?  Stevepol   Nov-29-06 06:54 PM   #37 
     - George Allen didn't call for a Recount because  femrap   Nov-29-06 08:18 PM   #49 
     - No way to recount Virginia, its 70% paperless  WillYourVoteBCounted   Nov-29-06 09:41 PM   #65 
     - I hope you're right though the pre and post polls were close, as well. n/t  JudyM   Nov-29-06 09:39 PM   #64 
  - About NIST's role in the election system in the U.S.  emlev   Nov-29-06 05:09 PM   #12 
  - ...Breaks into "Hallelujah Chorus" and "Ode to Joy"...  Hekate   Nov-29-06 05:10 PM   #13 
  - Wonderful!!! n/t  AzDar   Nov-29-06 05:14 PM   #14 
  - Kick and Recommend  BlueCollar   Nov-29-06 05:18 PM   #15 
  - Those guys at NIST need to take their tinfoil hats off!!!  Pawel K   Nov-29-06 05:18 PM   #16 
  - Those guys at NIST need to stay off small planes  DBoon   Nov-29-06 09:15 PM   #59 
     - NIST recommending paperless verification systems  WillYourVoteBCounted   Nov-29-06 09:43 PM   #66 
  - yesyesyesyesyesyes! n/t  Digit   Nov-29-06 05:21 PM   #17 
  - wwwoooohhhooooooo! but  mopinko   Nov-29-06 05:35 PM   #19 
  - You mean Republican-owned voting machines with secret Republican codes...  KansDem   Nov-29-06 05:37 PM   #20 
  - Halla - FUCKIN' - lujah!  IndyOp   Nov-29-06 05:40 PM   #21 
  - Can someone explain this?  Old and In the Way   Nov-29-06 05:42 PM   #22 
  - I think this great piece will answer your questions.  emlev   Nov-29-06 05:50 PM   #23 
  - In Nov 2000 I voted in Hawaii we used a machine that showed the options you selected then it printed  sce56   Nov-30-06 12:06 AM   #74 
  - Read the full article...  BradBlog   Nov-29-06 05:52 PM   #24 
  - Yay Brad! Take a bow, sir! When are you going to run for  petgoat   Nov-29-06 05:57 PM   #26 
     - run for the hills? :-)  BradBlog   Nov-30-06 12:02 AM   #73 
  - Here is a link to the actual NIST white paper (draft version):  Make7   Nov-29-06 06:42 PM   #33 
  - You ask too many questions. See post #57.  Bill Bored   Nov-29-06 08:19 PM   #50 
  - County by county, polling place by polling place....  suston96   Nov-29-06 05:52 PM   #25 
  - Thank you!!!!  Deb   Nov-29-06 06:01 PM   #27 
  - PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!  babsbunny   Nov-29-06 06:04 PM   #28 
  - Recommended #60  Benhurst   Nov-29-06 06:19 PM   #30 
  - Fabulous!  mom cat   Nov-29-06 06:29 PM   #31 
  - We should adopt Vote-by-mail, as in Oregon.  phiddle   Nov-29-06 06:40 PM   #32 
  - good luck, heres VBM in Colorado  WillYourVoteBCounted   Nov-30-06 02:26 AM   #77 
  - Damn Right!!  lpbk2713   Nov-29-06 06:44 PM   #34 
  - Unfortunately, I think the next headline we can expect to see is:  kestrel91316   Nov-29-06 06:45 PM   #35 
  - hammers are a good way to vote  sweetheart   Nov-29-06 06:47 PM   #36 
  - Now this makes my day. Wow...this is incredibly good news.  livvy   Nov-29-06 07:06 PM   #38 
  - THANKS BRAD!!!  BadGimp   Nov-29-06 07:20 PM   #39 
  - This is wonderful!  annabanana   Nov-29-06 07:23 PM   #40 
  - Oh hell yeah!  lonestarnot   Nov-29-06 07:29 PM   #41 
  - WOO-HOO!!!  nicknameless   Nov-29-06 07:39 PM   #42 
  - This is amazing news  SharonRB   Nov-29-06 07:46 PM   #43 
  - still my heart!  Hepburn   Nov-29-06 07:52 PM   #44 
  - Nice try but this won't affect an election until at least 2009. nt  Bill Bored   Nov-29-06 08:01 PM   #45 
  - K&R Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW!  In Truth We Trust   Nov-29-06 08:09 PM   #46 
  - It's about time...  RestoreGore   Nov-29-06 08:09 PM   #47 
  - thank you brad!  freedomfries   Nov-29-06 08:11 PM   #48 
  - Thank you Brad and everyone else who worked so hard  Greybnk48   Nov-29-06 08:20 PM   #51 
  - Rig and election? Go figure. kick  buddysmellgood   Nov-29-06 08:30 PM   #52 
  - OF COURSE! Democrats have the upper hand so ...  Kablooie   Nov-29-06 08:40 PM   #53 
  - Woot! 100th rec! n/t  hootinholler   Nov-29-06 08:47 PM   #54 
  - Ha! It was you!  bleever   Nov-29-06 08:48 PM   #56 
  - I wanted to be the 100th rec., but somebody tied with me.  bleever   Nov-29-06 08:47 PM   #55 
  - Musta been us then...  hootinholler   Nov-29-06 09:32 PM   #62 
     - I've been getting better,  bleever   Nov-29-06 11:50 PM   #71 
  - Sorry, no ban on touch screens. Read the paper!  Bill Bored   Nov-29-06 08:49 PM   #57 
  - Thanks Bill!  Old and In the Way   Nov-29-06 11:25 PM   #67 
  - Old and In the Way...Here's what you need to know...  BradBlog   Nov-29-06 11:56 PM   #72 
  - Thanks...I checked your links out.  Old and In the Way   Nov-30-06 01:20 AM   #76 
  - VVPATs in their present form definitely suck  slackmaster   Nov-30-06 02:06 PM   #94 
  - it would allow completely paperless systems  WillYourVoteBCounted   Nov-30-06 02:30 AM   #78 
  - I was just pointing out that the software-independence requirement  Bill Bored   Nov-30-06 03:18 AM   #79 
     - Next issue...printer runs out of ink  Old and In the Way   Nov-30-06 01:22 PM   #90 
  - Oh, Bill...Why so doubtful? ;-)  BradBlog   Nov-29-06 11:46 PM   #70 
  - It's a positive development, but all the old stuff will be grandfathered absent legislation.  Bill Bored   Nov-30-06 03:23 AM   #80 
  - Thanks Bill, I'm glad I read the actual paper before responding  slackmaster   Nov-30-06 01:57 PM   #93 
  - Remind me again why we are all a bunch of tinfoil hat loons?  Warren Stupidity   Nov-29-06 09:16 PM   #60 
  - Conspiracy theories, don't ya know..... People need some sense  petgoat   Nov-29-06 11:30 PM   #68 
  - THERE IS A GOD!!!  AtLiberty   Nov-29-06 09:26 PM   #61 
  - Glad to hear it.  Vidar   Nov-29-06 11:31 PM   #69 
  - What Great News, Brad!  rumpel   Nov-30-06 12:15 AM   #75 
  - Graphic displays of Diebold's reaction to the story:  krispos42   Nov-30-06 05:46 AM   #81 
  - yeeee-haaaaaa!!!  NotGivingUp   Nov-30-06 06:38 AM   #83 
  - Great, paper ballots and supervised counting at each precinct  whistle   Nov-30-06 06:52 AM   #84 
  - YAHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!  NoSheep   Nov-30-06 08:39 AM   #86 
  - HOORAY & HALLELUJAH!!!  KAT119   Nov-30-06 11:00 AM   #87 
  - Honestly, did it really take a federal agency to figure this out?  nolabels   Nov-30-06 12:26 PM   #88 
  - Why not just have a law banning secrete proprietary software for federal elections?  oc2002   Nov-30-06 12:48 PM   #89 
  - It serves those crooked companies just right. They lost a lot of  MasonJar   Nov-30-06 01:35 PM   #91 
  - You don't have to be an MIT grad to figure out that evoting  Zorra   Nov-30-06 01:38 PM   #92 
  - Best news of the year  sonias   Nov-30-06 04:46 PM   #95 

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