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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-18-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
65. I'm divided over this matter
Edited on Mon Sep-18-06 10:49 AM by Julius Civitatus
This is how I see this issue:

- On one hand, I think the pope was not prudent by bringing a quote from the renaissance to criticize those who (in this day and age) use violence for religious purposes. Out of curiosity I have read the full quote that Ratrzinger read in his speech, and I actually don't think it is all that offensive, but that's just my opinion (It is a historical fact that Islam did spread by the sword. There is no question about that.) Again, being the pope, he should be more savvy at dealing with other religions or even looking like he may be criticizing other religions. He should exercise maximum diplomacy.

That said...

- On the other hand, I'm getting SICK AND TIRED at the violent overreaction of Muslims around the world every time anyone says something they don't like. Whether it is an editorial cartoon or a speech by the pope, their reaction is just predictable. Burning churches in Palestine, shooting elderly nuns on the back? WTF? For a f*cking comment?

Enough of this shit. This is not acceptable, and the international community should figure out a way to deal this crap. These INTOLERANT attitudes are medieval and have no place in today's world.

Am I the only one that finds it ironic how these radical Muslims go on violent riots every time someone in the Western world mentions that they use their religion for violent purposes? Hello????
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  -BBC: Pope sorry for offending Muslims (has apologised in person) CJCRANE  Sep-17-06 09:28 AM   #0 
  - that man is too old and out of touch to be in such a powerful position  jean   Sep-17-06 09:31 AM   #1 
  - If Pope John Paul II were alive and healthy today, he would NOT  ShortnFiery   Sep-17-06 09:37 AM   #4 
  - Good! That's what he could have done from the onset of outrage  ShortnFiery   Sep-17-06 09:32 AM   #2 
  - But what if it is true . . .  toopers   Sep-17-06 02:12 PM   #21 
  - My respect for him has increased  CJCRANE   Sep-17-06 09:35 AM   #3 
  - but he should have never said it.  alyce douglas   Sep-18-06 10:01 AM   #61 
  - This was no mistake it was done on purpose  IChing   Sep-18-06 10:59 AM   #71 
  - he apologized for uttering it--did NOT dispute the Truth of the statement  Supersedeas   Sep-18-06 01:43 PM   #86 
  - He didn't. He lied  warrens   Sep-18-06 03:13 PM   #89 
     - #89, The pope didn't call Islam violent and bloodthirsty  CreekDog   Sep-18-06 06:50 PM   #97 
  - Guess that pushes the "infallability" meme out the window.  blm   Sep-17-06 09:38 AM   #5 
  - Infallibility has to be specifically invoked and has only been done  Zynx   Sep-17-06 09:42 AM   #7 
  - Not really - papal "infallibility" doesn't mean that every statement the  Pendrench   Sep-17-06 09:43 AM   #8 
     - No, you're basically right  5thGenDemocrat   Sep-17-06 11:25 AM   #11 
        - Huh??? If true, then this new and improved Catholic Church is far  VegasWolf   Sep-18-06 03:28 PM   #91 
        - Well, lots of stuff changes in forty years  5thGenDemocrat   Sep-19-06 12:12 PM   #104 
           - You missed the church's teachings on Limbo I guess. You need to do more  VegasWolf   Sep-19-06 01:10 PM   #106 
              - Well, I guess you were  5thGenDemocrat   Sep-19-06 06:29 PM   #108 
                 - Nah! Just a straight A student who made a lot of right decisions. nt  VegasWolf   Sep-19-06 07:04 PM   #109 
        - BTW, you mentioned the Papal Bull defining Mary's Immaculate Conception  VegasWolf   Sep-18-06 03:37 PM   #92 
           - Funny -- I was just chatting with a Muslim man here on DU  5thGenDemocrat   Sep-19-06 01:08 PM   #105 
              - You appear very ignorant of Catholic history - check out these Papal Bulls  VegasWolf   Sep-19-06 01:25 PM   #107 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Sep-17-06 09:41 AM   #6 
  - The devil made me say that.  MindMatter   Sep-17-06 10:05 AM   #9 
  - Is this an apology?  AusTexDem   Sep-17-06 11:05 AM   #10 
  - no, it is not an apology and it was not a mistake  bbgrunt   Sep-17-06 12:03 PM   #13 
  - Just out of interest . . .  toopers   Sep-17-06 02:15 PM   #22 
     - I don't understand the connection, unless you are referring to his  bbgrunt   Sep-17-06 03:04 PM   #25 
     - A youthful dalliance?  toopers   Sep-18-06 08:36 PM   #102 
     - I like Senator Byrd ... Get over his past he has done much more  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 10:50 AM   #66 
        - When you say he has done much more . . .  toopers   Sep-18-06 08:33 PM   #101 
  - Nope-- it remains the same. First out of the mouths of his minions  Malikshah   Sep-17-06 04:32 PM   #28 
     - Because he is not sorry. He stated historical fact n/t  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 10:50 AM   #67 
  - First the Jews in his youth, and now Muslims  NOLADEM   Sep-17-06 11:57 AM   #12 
  - and fuck those muslim bigots who shot that nun and fire bombed churches  951-Riverside   Sep-17-06 12:13 PM   #14 
  - Absolutely.  NOLADEM   Sep-17-06 12:16 PM   #16 
  - Yeah, can't ya just feel the love?  ShortnFiery   Sep-18-06 07:18 AM   #53 
     - OK on the equally tolerant about each others religious beliefs however,  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 10:56 AM   #69 
        - But do you think  CJCRANE   Sep-18-06 11:07 AM   #73 
           - My Points  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 11:13 AM   #74 
              - 1. Religion and poltics  CJCRANE   Sep-18-06 12:21 PM   #79 
                 - Huh get a clue  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 12:37 PM   #83 
                    - You answered #1  CJCRANE   Sep-18-06 12:50 PM   #84 
                       - example of a muslim country that has invaded a western country in the last  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 01:24 PM   #85 
  - Do you notice the poison in yourself?  CBHagman   Sep-17-06 12:24 PM   #17 
  - But they're a bigot for the left, which is OK.  LordLovesAWorkingMan   Sep-17-06 02:56 PM   #24 
  - This person is correct that The Vatican abetted The Nazis and  ShortnFiery   Sep-18-06 07:22 AM   #54 
     - Don't invoke things that happend hundreds of years ago as relevant...  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 11:15 AM   #75 
  - I agree. Fuck this asswipe.  TankLV   Sep-17-06 06:51 PM   #29 
  - No he is only speaking historical fact. Islam is not a tolerant religion  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 10:52 AM   #68 
     - And Christianity is?  NOLADEM   Sep-18-06 05:15 PM   #93 
  - Better late than never.  Karenina   Sep-17-06 12:15 PM   #15 
  - I'm not "happy" about anything he does.  crim son   Sep-18-06 06:52 AM   #47 
  - This article said he apologized for "the reactions" - he did not apologize  cyberpj   Sep-17-06 12:56 PM   #18 
  - The pope is being an ass.  tedzbear   Sep-17-06 02:53 PM   #23 
  - That's what they all do.  mwb970   Sep-18-06 06:42 AM   #46 
  - Pope Political I  Prisoner_Number_Six   Sep-17-06 01:01 PM   #19 
  - I thought this guy was going to be a caretaker  cambie   Sep-17-06 02:04 PM   #20 
  - Catholics and Italians are not safe  marshall   Sep-18-06 07:17 AM   #52 
  - Pope announces global intinerary of apology  fedsron2us   Sep-17-06 03:47 PM   #26 
  - AP: Pope's Response Accepted by Some Muslims  Eugene   Sep-17-06 04:01 PM   #27 
  - He must either be as stupid as Bush  goclark   Sep-17-06 07:54 PM   #30 
  - Pope issues rare statement of regret  rodeodance   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #31 
  - A statement of regret that people got offended.... not that he was sorry  beyurslf   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #32 
  - Exactly...  GoddessOfGuinness   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #41 
  - So much for being omnipotent  DoYouEverWonder   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #33 
  - Yeah. That Doctrine of Infallibility thingy seems to have a  charlyvi   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #34 
     - That's not how that works  LostinVA   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #37 
        - Didn't we just have one?  TrogL   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #40 
  - Any word on the  DiktatrW   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #35 
  - Nah  NOLADEM   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #38 
  - father oriely's a fairy but it don't bother mary,  DiktatrW   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #39 
  - Vatican trying to resurrect the Crusades or something?  wiley   Sep-18-06 01:36 AM   #44 
  - I am sure the murder of the Italian nun in Somalia prodded him  LostinVA   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #36 
  - That's not an apology...of course they'll continue to be offended.  autorank   Sep-18-06 12:10 AM   #42 
     - "This guy is pretty tough. He knew exactly what he was saying and he's ...  ShortnFiery   Sep-18-06 07:29 AM   #55 
  - The irony of Islamic violence because of the Pope's address is rich  Psephos   Sep-18-06 01:31 AM   #43 
  - Yes, equating the Muslim's #1 Prophet to EVIL is what really gets  ShortnFiery   Sep-18-06 07:06 AM   #48 
  - Has anyone read the Pope's whole speech?  Bridget Burke   Sep-18-06 06:17 AM   #45 
  - Pope  TomChicago   Sep-18-06 07:11 AM   #49 
  - Out of Context or not ... the following paragraph was INFLAMMATORY  ShortnFiery   Sep-18-06 07:12 AM   #50 
  - It's better in context  Marie26   Sep-18-06 10:17 AM   #63 
  - The men that run the Church/Vatican  plasticsundance   Sep-18-06 07:12 AM   #51 
  - Yeah right.  Woolwich   Sep-18-06 08:44 AM   #56 
     - So are you for the cross dressing or against it?  plasticsundance   Sep-18-06 09:43 AM   #58 
        - Personally?  Woolwich   Sep-18-06 09:54 AM   #59 
           - Well ... see? That's all I'm saying.  plasticsundance   Sep-18-06 10:40 AM   #64 
              - Sorry I don't even understand the relationship. So someone  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 10:58 AM   #70 
              - The Arab/Muslim world is inflamed  plasticsundance   Sep-18-06 11:36 AM   #77 
                 - We disagree... My point is that the Pope who repeated words of an  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 12:28 PM   #81 
                 - Many religions were spread by the sword  plasticsundance   Sep-18-06 03:20 PM   #90 
                 - What YOU said!!! BEST POST ON THE SUBJECT!!!  Karenina   Sep-18-06 12:33 PM   #82 
              - Fair Enough  Woolwich   Sep-19-06 11:25 AM   #103 
  - What a weasel. It's a BS, "sorry you feel that way" kind of "apology"  confludemocrat   Sep-18-06 09:33 AM   #57 
  - this Pope went over the line with this comment, way over the line  alyce douglas   Sep-18-06 09:59 AM   #60 
  - Over the line I think not all he did was speak historical fact.  humbled_opinion   Sep-18-06 11:00 AM   #72 
  - Non-apology  Marie26   Sep-18-06 10:02 AM   #62 
  - I'm divided over this matter  Julius Civitatus   Sep-18-06 10:44 AM   #65 
  - I'm not saying that the Pope was right...  RiDuvessa   Sep-18-06 11:27 AM   #76 
  - The reaction of quite a few people is out of line  CJCRANE   Sep-18-06 12:23 PM   #80 
  - Not only that, but  Megahurtz   Sep-18-06 06:07 PM   #95 
  - well, I see the Catholic Church  newspeak   Sep-18-06 11:41 AM   #78 
  - It's hard to disagree with the simple statement that  Spinoza   Sep-18-06 02:11 PM   #87 
  - I am waiting for a SINGLE  Spinoza   Sep-18-06 02:15 PM   #88 
  - Pope helps Chimpy to underline the so-called clash of ideologies.  oasis   Sep-18-06 05:24 PM   #94 
     - The Pope should not apologize for the following remarks  CreekDog   Sep-18-06 06:37 PM   #96 
        - Don't you think the Pope  CJCRANE   Sep-18-06 06:53 PM   #98 
           - His comments are against the Spanish Inquisition  CreekDog   Sep-18-06 06:56 PM   #99 
              - The only Islamic Republic  CJCRANE   Sep-18-06 07:01 PM   #100 

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