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musiclawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. That's correct
The police union "might" try to argue in the future that any peace officer personnel records are exempt from public disclosure even in civil litigation..... But that's speculative. and I don't buy it. The unions are not that dumb. They would lose. All employment records are fair game, prior privacy notwithstanding, in any civil or criminal litigation if they are even remotely relevant to the litigation. ...... The more likely argument the unions will make is that all peace officer employment records, deemed relevant by a court, be filed under seal or protective order... I don't think that's good public policy. But again, that is all speculative. As to this case, I think the court made the right decision, balancing competing interests, under the existing law as of now......... If the legislature wanted to, it could make all (pre-lawsuit) civil service disciplinary proceedings and binding arbitration proceedings (for cops and civilians alike) open to the public. That would be way more transparent. But would most civil service employees like this? HELL NO. Their private sector counterparts get to keep their personnel histories private, pre-litigation at least. Why can't they. So the issue is real one of public accountability for cops, and when does the "public" part of that kick in? The court answered the question as best it could. If I was the police unions I'd go celebrate for the day and then turn my attention to more important things.
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  -Ruling Denies Public Access to Police Officer Records madmusic  Sep-01-06 10:00 AM   #0 
  - This is well over the line!  AX10   Sep-01-06 10:04 AM   #1 
  - How 'bout this?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 10:45 AM   #7 
     - Holy Crap!  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 12:56 PM   #35 
        - Relax. They were taking them to the dentist...  madmusic   Sep-01-06 03:27 PM   #42 
  - Ah, the people pay them, the people employ them, the people  MADem   Sep-01-06 10:06 AM   #2 
  - Count me in the opposition. We are far too close to the Gestapo already.  Vidar   Sep-01-06 10:07 AM   #3 
  - Here is something quite disturbing:  AX10   Sep-01-06 10:16 AM   #4 
  - The most powerful in the state:  madmusic   Sep-01-06 11:23 AM   #13 
  - Here is a more recent report:  madmusic   Sep-01-06 12:16 PM   #24 
  - I find your premise bizaree.  Exiled in America   Sep-01-06 10:21 AM   #5 
  - Nancy Grace is a Decmocrat...  madmusic   Sep-01-06 10:48 AM   #9 
  - Nancy Grace is - to my knowledge - not a "DUer"  Exiled in America   Sep-01-06 11:28 AM   #14 
  - Again, do a DU search for those who support her.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 11:45 AM   #15 
     - You said a "lot" of DUers  Exiled in America   Sep-01-06 04:12 PM   #49 
        - How did you do that?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:14 PM   #50 
           - You have to know someone who is a donor  Exiled in America   Sep-01-06 04:16 PM   #51 
              - Are you saying this under oath?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:19 PM   #54 
                 - Saying what?  Exiled in America   Sep-01-06 04:20 PM   #55 
  - So are Zell Miller and Toby Keith.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 12:11 PM   #22 
  - Did I say ALL Duers?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 12:20 PM   #26 
  - No she ain't.  Bornaginhooligan   Sep-01-06 03:37 PM   #44 
  - Plenty of them and a FEW TROOP JOCK-SNIFFERS TOO.  saigon68   Sep-01-06 12:16 PM   #23 
  - A lot of them actually are,  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 06:17 PM   #88 
     - weird.  Exiled in America   Sep-01-06 06:59 PM   #89 
  - Constitutional "due process" is being privatized for profit. n/t  InkAddict   Sep-01-06 10:35 AM   #6 
  - Human resources records are confidential  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 10:47 AM   #8 
  - How many of those records involve homicide?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 11:13 AM   #10 
     - Criminal trials are public record, if I recall correctly.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 11:17 AM   #12 
     - "Justifiable homicide"  madmusic   Sep-01-06 11:47 AM   #16 
        - Then it would be similar to grand jury proceedings, which  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 11:47 AM   #17 
           - So is the disciplinary record allowed there?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 12:03 PM   #19 
              - A prosecutor can show disciplinary records to a grand jury.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 12:09 PM   #20 
                 - I know.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 12:32 PM   #28 
                    - It depends if the prosecutor thought a crime might have been  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 12:34 PM   #29 
     - or shoving broomhadles up peoples asses?  zreosumgame   Sep-01-06 05:59 PM   #86 
        - New York doesn't count.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 08:37 PM   #92 
  - Hand up...Hey, Over here, Pick me pick me  musiclawyer   Sep-01-06 11:15 AM   #11 
  - Maybe you are right...  madmusic   Sep-01-06 11:59 AM   #18 
     - I believe the records would be obtainable in the lawsuit, but  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 12:10 PM   #21 
     - Couple of points to remember  musiclawyer   Sep-01-06 12:19 PM   #25 
        - In that case...  madmusic   Sep-01-06 12:29 PM   #27 
           - HR records are considered private for everyone else  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 12:37 PM   #30 
           - Police are public employees.  lonestarnot   Sep-01-06 12:41 PM   #32 
              - So, all government employees should have their human  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 12:43 PM   #33 
           - Ok  musiclawyer   Sep-01-06 01:11 PM   #37 
              - So, again, what if it was dismissed prior to any motions?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 03:20 PM   #41 
                 - That's correct  musiclawyer   Sep-01-06 04:29 PM   #56 
                    - Thanks, I get the equal protection argument now.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:43 PM   #62 
                       - Good point.  musiclawyer   Sep-01-06 04:53 PM   #68 
                          - Glad we can agree there.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 05:11 PM   #75 
  - One step closer to a police state.  lonestarnot   Sep-01-06 12:41 PM   #31 
  - How Fucking Convenient.  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 12:54 PM   #34 
  - If you go after cops and try to stab them, you deserve to get shot.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 12:57 PM   #36 
  - Are You Crazy???  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 01:27 PM   #38 
     - Do you have a legal education?  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 01:29 PM   #39 
     - What was that, an indirect attempt at a condescending insult?  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 03:40 PM   #45 
        - Self-defense is a legal question.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 04:06 PM   #48 
           - True.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:17 PM   #52 
           - Because stabbing someone in the back is a physical  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 04:19 PM   #53 
              - Oh, I get it.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:31 PM   #58 
              - Why did you cite a newspaper article about Miami?  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 04:33 PM   #59 
              - Uh.....Dude.....  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 04:40 PM   #61 
                 - The person suggested that the cops run away from the person  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 04:43 PM   #63 
                    - legal right to self-defense?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:48 PM   #65 
                    - So, they should let the derange person with a knife--who had already  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 04:49 PM   #66 
                       - Yes, someone has, but....  madmusic   Sep-01-06 05:00 PM   #69 
                       - Yeah and guess what! Someone has charged me with a knife too!  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:09 PM   #74 
                    - Their backs were NOT facing her!  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:02 PM   #71 
                       - Someone suggested that they run away from her.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 05:05 PM   #73 
                          - All you do is not turn your back.  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:13 PM   #76 
                             - You're funny, but I've wasted enough time. Toodles.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 05:32 PM   #80 
                                - Ha ha!  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:48 PM   #83 
           - My point was  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 04:30 PM   #57 
              - Why wouldn't she be able to get near them?  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 04:35 PM   #60 
                 - I think they have legs, don't you?  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:00 PM   #70 
                    - Well, you're entitled to your moral opinion on the matter.  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 05:04 PM   #72 
                       - That's because their higher-ups are making this the legal protocol  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:18 PM   #77 
                          - No, that's the law as it has existed for 500  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 05:31 PM   #79 
                             - No it's not.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 05:34 PM   #81 
                             - No, but if they run right at you with a bloody knife  geek tragedy   Sep-01-06 05:40 PM   #82 
                                - Not! A civilian would be arrested and jailed immediaty if they killed them  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:57 PM   #85 
                             - That's interesting.  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:53 PM   #84 
     - Was she raped the night before after all?  madmusic   Sep-01-06 03:17 PM   #40 
        - Yes, she was raped.  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 03:50 PM   #46 
  - It's probably not a good idea to lunge at an officer with a bloody knife  brentspeak   Sep-01-06 04:47 PM   #64 
     - Which is another way of saying...  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:52 PM   #67 
     - And there was no lunging,  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 05:22 PM   #78 
  - so what are they trying to hide?  truthisfreedom   Sep-01-06 03:34 PM   #43 
  - Here is the case/decision/opinion  madmusic   Sep-01-06 04:00 PM   #47 
  - And SO, madmusic.....  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 06:14 PM   #87 
  - I would have been lazy and cowardly...  madmusic   Sep-01-06 08:44 PM   #93 
  - "A lot of DUers are..."  Miss Chybil   Sep-01-06 07:22 PM   #90 
  - That's a blanket statement.  madmusic   Sep-01-06 08:36 PM   #91 
  - I have posted Police-oriented stuff before  Megahurtz   Sep-01-06 09:03 PM   #94 
  - Miss Chybil  madmusic   Sep-01-06 10:31 PM   #97 
     - I was really not making a comment about DU, or anybody in  Miss Chybil   Sep-01-06 11:17 PM   #98 
        - blanket statement  madmusic   Sep-02-06 11:39 AM   #99 
  - Personnel records are protected against FOIA requests.  BullGooseLoony   Sep-01-06 09:04 PM   #95 
  - The paper tried to argue...  madmusic   Sep-01-06 10:23 PM   #96 
  - Three fight suspensions in suicide of 18-year-old at youth prison  madmusic   Sep-03-06 02:34 PM   #100 

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