Cyrano
(1000+ posts)
|
Wed Aug-16-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message |
| 22. Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey murder case. |
 |
Edited on Wed Aug-16-06 04:42 PM by Cyrano
Just heard on the radio that someone had been arrested in the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey. Don't know who.
Put the war on hold. From now on, it's going to be Jon Benet 24/7 on all the cable news channels.
Do you suppose this is a Cheney/Rove distraction?
(Link in first posting below.)
|
Arrest made in JonBenet Ramsey murder case |
GardeningGal |
Aug-16-06 04:32 PM |
#0 |

Here's a link |
Oreo |
Aug-16-06 04:33 PM |
#1 |
 
Another link-Arrest made in Bangkok Thailand no name given |
underpants |
Aug-16-06 04:36 PM |
#2 |
 
YES ... it is a distration |
Patmccccc |
Aug-16-06 05:17 PM |
#60 |

Wow. This'll be interesting to follow. Nancy Grace will be on fire! |
YDogg |
Aug-16-06 04:38 PM |
#3 |
 
Her eyeballs will really be popping out of their sockets over this. |
Connie_Corleone |
Aug-16-06 04:39 PM |
#6 |
  
Her nostrils... |
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf |
Aug-16-06 04:40 PM |
#7 |
 
And will they rupture? |
Bretttido |
Aug-16-06 05:38 PM |
#87 |
 
No but her girations over this will be disgusting to watch. |
caligirl |
Aug-16-06 05:53 PM |
#100 |
 
If only someone would set her on fire......... |
AngryAmish |
Aug-16-06 04:44 PM |
#10 |
 
Why do we waste our precious resources on trials? |
warrens |
Aug-16-06 04:53 PM |
#20 |
  
Didn't Grace |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:23 PM |
#67 |
 
ha! |
JackORoses |
Aug-16-06 05:01 PM |
#42 |
 
self delete dup |
cassiepriam |
Aug-16-06 06:26 PM |
#110 |
 
n/t |
PretzelzRule |
Aug-16-06 09:50 PM |
#152 |

Did somebody say DISTRACTION?!? |
derby378 |
Aug-16-06 04:39 PM |
#4 |
 
Oh stop it |
alcibiades_mystery |
Aug-16-06 04:40 PM |
#8 |
  
The instant reaction...nothing is news anymore |
warrens |
Aug-16-06 04:56 PM |
#21 |
   
Yeah but come on. |
geomon666 |
Aug-16-06 05:03 PM |
#44 |
    
I don't know the media will be all afire over this one |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:26 PM |
#72 |
     
They don't have to admit error. |
geomon666 |
Aug-16-06 05:30 PM |
#74 |
    
I concur. Ratings are everything. This war is soooooo depressing. |
YDogg |
Aug-16-06 06:01 PM |
#103 |
   
some people live and breathe nothing but politics |
Ragin_mad |
Aug-16-06 05:18 PM |
#61 |
  
Now, now |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:24 PM |
#69 |
 
I just returned from New York City after attending a meeting with Rove... |
Writer |
Aug-16-06 05:33 PM |
#79 |
 
But tell me, |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:47 PM |
#95 |
 
Actually it's bear suits... |
Writer |
Aug-16-06 05:49 PM |
#97 |
 
How would this help? They're BEHIND. |
Finnfan |
Aug-16-06 04:44 PM |
#13 |
 
NO NO NO |
themartyred |
Aug-16-06 09:23 PM |
#143 |

I so hope family and friends can find peace. n/t |
sfexpat2000 |
Aug-16-06 04:39 PM |
#5 |
 
Me too. |
Marie26 |
Aug-16-06 05:03 PM |
#43 |

Horrendous. I've been in the position of having people speculate |
sfexpat2000 |
Aug-16-06 05:11 PM |
#54 |

I sense a field day in video re-runs... |
newyorican |
Aug-16-06 04:42 PM |
#9 |
 
That would be fantastic! |
Ex Lion Tamer |
Aug-16-06 04:44 PM |
#12 |
 
Why do you call Nancy Grace a bitch? |
RebelOne |
Aug-16-06 04:48 PM |
#17 |

Nancy Grace is a bitch |
AngryAmish |
Aug-16-06 04:50 PM |
#18 |

Because that shoe fits. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Aug-16-06 04:50 PM |
#19 |

If they didn't arrest her mother (now dead) or her father, then it's |
davidwparker |
Aug-16-06 05:00 PM |
#40 |

Vile people can vote Dem too |
LeftyMom |
Aug-16-06 05:01 PM |
#41 |

because she is a woman with an opinion |
L A Woman |
Aug-16-06 05:11 PM |
#51 |
 
Hardly. |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:31 PM |
#76 |
 
She also drove Gary Condit out of office and never apologized |
LisaM |
Aug-16-06 05:34 PM |
#80 |

But, he lied to police and obstructed Justice |
LostinVA |
Aug-16-06 08:04 PM |
#132 |

How could he obstruct justice if he had no knowledge of the incident? |
LisaM |
Aug-16-06 08:25 PM |
#137 |

I have absoutely no use for Grace |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:27 PM |
#73 |

She may be one of you, |
mycritters2 |
Aug-16-06 05:43 PM |
#92 |

The republicans can have her. |
Bleachers7 |
Aug-16-06 06:45 PM |
#117 |

Where'd you get that Nancy Grace "is a Democrat and one of us"? |
brentspeak |
Aug-16-06 07:22 PM |
#123 |

I guess you don't watch her show |
L A Woman |
Aug-17-06 07:48 PM |
#209 |

Wow. Weird. |
Megahurtz |
Aug-16-06 04:44 PM |
#11 |

I hope that |
Bushies gotta go |
Aug-16-06 04:46 PM |
#14 |
 
That's not what killed her mother |
jbnow |
Aug-16-06 05:10 PM |
#50 |

I would argue it could have contributed heavily to her death. |
merci_me |
Aug-16-06 05:50 PM |
#98 |

I believe that too |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 06:44 AM |
#172 |

Good |
laptoprepairguy |
Aug-17-06 11:00 AM |
#181 |

while I think they used bad judgement with the pageant business |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 07:03 PM |
#205 |

I have a friend inside the investigation... |
mainer |
Aug-16-06 04:48 PM |
#15 |
 
How far inside the investigation? |
Suich |
Aug-16-06 05:11 PM |
#53 |
 
I have NO ONE on the inside |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:33 PM |
#78 |

I think the media perhaps owes an apology for the years of hounding |
WI_DEM |
Aug-16-06 04:48 PM |
#16 |
 
don't forget the grave-dancers here on DU a few weeks ago |
L A Woman |
Aug-16-06 05:14 PM |
#55 |
  
How true |
ovidsen |
Aug-16-06 05:24 PM |
#68 |
  
I was on that thread, |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:34 PM |
#82 |
  
She Had Nothing to Do With the Murder But Everything to Do ... |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 11:14 AM |
#185 |
 
uh huh |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 07:11 PM |
#207 |
 
Was Patsy Ramsey Ever "Logical" In Her Life? |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 08:01 PM |
#216 |
 
Nancy Grace should be the first one in line to apologize |
Julius Civitatus |
Aug-17-06 10:00 AM |
#179 |

Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey murder case. |
Cyrano |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#22 |
 
Arrest made in Bangkok Thailand no name given |
underpants |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#23 |
  
He's been identified as a 42 y/o elementary teacher named John Karr. |
gully |
Aug-16-06 11:36 PM |
#161 |
 
I wonder if the murderer had a link to those child |
pokercat999 |
Aug-17-06 07:02 AM |
#174 |
 
I wonder as well, and agree that they are disgusting. |
gully |
Aug-17-06 04:39 PM |
#202 |
 
Hopefully it is exactly what it appears to be. |
Caution |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#24 |
  
I was being sarcastic. |
Cyrano |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#29 |
 
Do you have link? This is LBN. |
brentspeak |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#25 |
 
Oh my god... |
eleny |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#26 |
  
For those of us that were here in Colorado |
mountainvue |
Aug-16-06 05:16 PM |
#58 |
 
Of course, you're right |
eleny |
Aug-16-06 06:28 PM |
#111 |
 
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#27 |
 
I have a theory: |
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#28 |
 
Israel says it won't leave Lebanon |
FlavaKreemSnak |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#30 |
  
??? |
brentspeak |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#32 |
 
I am answering the person's question. Didn't you see it? |
FlavaKreemSnak |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#36 |
 
I was always sure it was the mother. and father covered it up |
izzie |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#31 |
  
Me, too. I've been sure |
stanwyck |
Aug-16-06 05:41 PM |
#90 |
 
You're right, Cyrano. Jon Benet ad nauseum. Ugh. nt |
babylonsister |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#33 |
 
I'm delighted as long as they have concrete proof |
WI_DEM |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#34 |
 
Waiting for Nancy Graces head to explode... |
newyorican |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#35 |
  
Ha! |
LA lady |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#37 |
  
That would be entertaining |
Sherman A1 |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#39 |
  
A few people on DU may have to eat some crow too...... |
Kingshakabobo |
Aug-16-06 05:04 PM |
#45 |
   
That was shameful. |
Writer |
Aug-16-06 05:11 PM |
#52 |
   
Exactly. It was truly disgusting. |
LiberalHeart |
Aug-16-06 09:33 PM |
#145 |
  
Must see TV |
Bjornsdotter |
Aug-16-06 05:34 PM |
#84 |
  
She made a career off vilifying the Ramseys |
Julius Civitatus |
Aug-17-06 09:53 AM |
#178 |
 
Cheney/Rove distraction - no way |
RamboLiberal |
Aug-16-06 04:58 PM |
#38 |
 
Suspect was a school teacher from Conyers GA, at one time. |
TX-RAT |
Aug-16-06 05:17 PM |
#59 |
 
That Gary Glitter really gets around. |
951-Riverside |
Aug-16-06 05:18 PM |
#62 |
 
Was there a letter? Been a long time but mother came to my mind |
izzie |
Aug-17-06 06:09 AM |
#169 |

I'm so tempted to guess it's Neil Bush |
LisaM |
Aug-16-06 05:07 PM |
#46 |
 
OMG, I thought I was the only one evil enough |
merci_me |
Aug-16-06 05:20 PM |
#63 |
 
Good ole Neil |
patsified |
Aug-16-06 05:25 PM |
#70 |

I;m just sayin'...an arrest in Thailand does not necessarily exonerate... |
MnFats |
Aug-16-06 05:08 PM |
#47 |

Dan Abrams of MSNBC says |
hashibabba |
Aug-16-06 05:08 PM |
#48 |

Well, I'll be damned |
Roon |
Aug-16-06 05:08 PM |
#49 |
 
I think the Dad did it. |
Megahurtz |
Aug-16-06 05:15 PM |
#57 |

jesus ... what does it take? |
LiberalHeart |
Aug-16-06 09:35 PM |
#146 |

The suspect confessed to whom? |
kurth |
Aug-16-06 05:14 PM |
#56 |

Suspect is an American and a second grade school teacher. |
Joanne98 |
Aug-16-06 05:20 PM |
#64 |
 
41-year-old convited sex offender. No surprise there. n/t |
hashibabba |
Aug-16-06 05:23 PM |
#65 |

BREAKING MSNBC reporting-American 2nd grade teacher |
merci_me |
Aug-16-06 05:23 PM |
#66 |
 
May I emphasize that when the name is released... |
Writer |
Aug-16-06 05:25 PM |
#71 |

Well... |
Bjornsdotter |
Aug-16-06 05:30 PM |
#75 |
 
In many of our minds he will be guilty until proven innocent. n/t |
Writer |
Aug-16-06 05:34 PM |
#83 |

Well, sadly that[s probably true, |
hashibabba |
Aug-16-06 05:36 PM |
#85 |
 
Yes, the DNA |
Bjornsdotter |
Aug-16-06 05:51 PM |
#99 |
 
Unfortunately, a confession isn't what it used to be. |
TheWraith |
Aug-16-06 06:18 PM |
#109 |

Yes |
Bjornsdotter |
Aug-16-06 07:41 PM |
#130 |

Or until he takes back his confession of some parts of the crime? |
LiberalHeart |
Aug-16-06 09:38 PM |
#148 |

Yeah, but the pundits |
Kelvin Mace |
Aug-16-06 05:44 PM |
#93 |

This whole case has been so messed up, this arrest means nil |
LostinVA |
Aug-16-06 08:07 PM |
#133 |

It's a shame that |
Raine |
Aug-16-06 05:33 PM |
#77 |
 
But she did know. |
hashibabba |
Aug-16-06 05:34 PM |
#81 |

Thanks for |
Raine |
Aug-16-06 08:56 PM |
#141 |

Nothing Will Be Known Until The Suspect Answers This Question: |
Akim |
Aug-16-06 09:45 PM |
#151 |

What took them so long????? |
ckramer |
Aug-16-06 05:37 PM |
#86 |

Another "coincidental" distraction - just in time! |
TankLV |
Aug-16-06 05:40 PM |
#88 |

Doesn't add up |
OzarkDem |
Aug-16-06 05:41 PM |
#89 |
 
He may have lived near or otherwise knew the Ramseys in Conyers GA? |
Bunny |
Aug-16-06 05:45 PM |
#94 |
 
Write a practice note, write the note |
Roon |
Aug-16-06 05:49 PM |
#96 |
 
At some point, the Ramseys lived in Georgia. Mr. Ramsey's... |
Pacifist Patriot |
Aug-16-06 06:10 PM |
#107 |
  
Still, why would a killer commute |
OzarkDem |
Aug-16-06 06:39 PM |
#115 |
 
he was obsessed with that lttle girl |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 06:46 AM |
#173 |
 
I agree things not adding up here. |
cassiepriam |
Aug-16-06 06:32 PM |
#113 |
  
This entire story is pretty friggen far fetched |
the dogfish |
Aug-17-06 05:22 PM |
#203 |
 
Yes I agree, something not right with what we are hearing. |
cassiepriam |
Aug-17-06 06:48 PM |
#204 |
 
If the DNA adds up, |
Marie26 |
Aug-16-06 07:29 PM |
#126 |
 
"originally" from Georgia I believe? |
gully |
Aug-16-06 11:40 PM |
#165 |

I'm sorry Patsy didn't live to see this |
Sticky |
Aug-16-06 05:42 PM |
#91 |
 
no motive |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 06:40 AM |
#171 |

Folks, don't get into a tizzy about this being good for the GOP. |
MallRat |
Aug-16-06 05:55 PM |
#101 |

What a bunch of crap! |
0007 |
Aug-16-06 05:57 PM |
#102 |

Finally--And every poster who ever doubted me???? STFU. |
pacoyogi |
Aug-16-06 06:02 PM |
#104 |
 
It's all about you? |
Bjornsdotter |
Aug-16-06 06:33 PM |
#114 |
 
No Apologies Are Due Yet |
Akim |
Aug-16-06 09:37 PM |
#147 |

You really know nothing about this case do you |
wakeme2008 |
Aug-16-06 09:43 PM |
#149 |

More Than You Anyway n/t |
Akim |
Aug-16-06 10:08 PM |
#157 |

LOL do not think that is true |
wakeme2008 |
Aug-16-06 10:22 PM |
#158 |

Oh, those poor trees. |
Throd |
Aug-16-06 06:08 PM |
#105 |

From Detective Lou Smit Shoe ( he said they were NG long time ago) |
wakeme2008 |
Aug-16-06 06:09 PM |
#106 |

Wow! Amazing news. Glad the mom knew of this development |
mcscajun |
Aug-16-06 06:17 PM |
#108 |

Thailand home of child prostitution and porno? |
cassiepriam |
Aug-16-06 06:28 PM |
#112 |

I'm still not convinced this exonerates the mother.. |
JackDragna |
Aug-16-06 06:42 PM |
#116 |
 
We do not know the facts |
Marie26 |
Aug-16-06 07:22 PM |
#124 |
 
handwriting undetermined and 5 FIVE lie detector test neg.. n/t |
medeak |
Aug-16-06 07:32 PM |
#128 |

Very Skeptical |
EMAN51 |
Aug-16-06 06:45 PM |
#118 |

Here's a thought... |
Whoa_Nelly |
Aug-16-06 06:52 PM |
#119 |
 
The layout of the house |
Demo5 |
Aug-16-06 07:13 PM |
#121 |

Says who? |
Marie26 |
Aug-16-06 07:23 PM |
#125 |

Finally, I have felt so bad for the family all of these years. |
justice1 |
Aug-16-06 07:05 PM |
#120 |

Peter Boyles must LEAVE COLORADO NOW!!!!!!! !!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! |
Democrats_win |
Aug-16-06 07:18 PM |
#122 |
 
Not to mention that detective |
mountainvue |
Aug-16-06 08:16 PM |
#135 |

FOX NEWS says he has alibi |
medeak |
Aug-16-06 07:29 PM |
#127 |
 
He may have an alibi, he may not |
LostinVA |
Aug-16-06 08:10 PM |
#134 |

Media Distraction from REAL issues? - seems to be working purty good |
ConcernedCanuk |
Aug-16-06 07:35 PM |
#129 |

This is a VERY important story - NOT a "distraction" |
Turn CO Blue |
Aug-16-06 08:02 PM |
#131 |
 
No, I agree -- Justice for little JonBenet |
LostinVA |
Aug-16-06 08:20 PM |
#136 |
  
The fact remains that Patsy Ramsey wrote a fake ransom note. |
Akim |
Aug-16-06 08:37 PM |
#138 |
 
Says WHO... |
wakeme2008 |
Aug-16-06 09:44 PM |
#150 |
 
Here's the Evidence that Patsy Ramsey Wrote Fake Ransom Note |
Akim |
Aug-16-06 09:51 PM |
#153 |
 
That is a BS blog site not a FACT site |
wakeme2008 |
Aug-16-06 09:53 PM |
#154 |
 
It Is Neither BS Nor a Blogsite: Read It |
Akim |
Aug-16-06 10:05 PM |
#156 |
 
No it isn't...it certainly isn't worth breaking into real news for. |
jakefrep |
Aug-16-06 11:43 PM |
#166 |

I will wait for some facts. |
Beausoir |
Aug-16-06 08:42 PM |
#139 |
 
I was in pageant with Las Vegas showgirls at age 3 |
medeak |
Aug-16-06 08:44 PM |
#140 |

Babies with bleached hair, heavy makeup and revealing costumes... |
Beausoir |
Aug-16-06 11:39 PM |
#163 |

It was a joke....my parents were Vegas entertainers |
medeak |
Aug-16-06 11:50 PM |
#167 |

You were 3. Do you actually remember it? |
Beausoir |
Aug-16-06 11:56 PM |
#168 |

vividly n/t |
medeak |
Aug-17-06 04:20 PM |
#201 |

justice? or a rove-ian distraction? |
HuffleClaw |
Aug-16-06 09:19 PM |
#142 |
 
then you've tilted off the edge of reality |
onenote |
Aug-16-06 10:38 PM |
#159 |

you really think such a thing is beyond BushCo. to engineer? |
HuffleClaw |
Aug-17-06 09:09 AM |
#175 |

or maybe its just news. |
onenote |
Aug-17-06 09:38 AM |
#177 |

As opposed to |
Marie26 |
Aug-17-06 11:13 AM |
#184 |

He may have also lived in Petaluma Ca. Press here in the bay area |
caligirl |
Aug-16-06 09:31 PM |
#144 |
 
It's the same guy. He was busted |
mountainvue |
Aug-16-06 11:30 PM |
#160 |

Note that she says he was with her when the child was killed? |
caligirl |
Aug-16-06 11:38 PM |
#162 |

M. Klaas needs to shut up. |
LiberalHeart |
Aug-16-06 09:53 PM |
#155 |

If true |
Corgigal |
Aug-16-06 11:40 PM |
#164 |
 
Hmm, kind of hard to buy this... |
gorekerrydreamticket |
Aug-17-06 09:15 AM |
#176 |

Wouldn't Be the First Time. n/t |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 10:52 AM |
#180 |

I'm beginning to doubt this guy is the one. |
shayes51 |
Aug-17-06 11:05 AM |
#182 |

I'd wait and see on this as well. |
Sentinel Chicken |
Aug-17-06 11:54 AM |
#190 |

I was correct then |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 06:33 AM |
#170 |
 
John Ramsey Is the Luckiest Man On Earth |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 11:07 AM |
#183 |

Just stop it. nt |
Marie26 |
Aug-17-06 11:18 AM |
#186 |
 
Suspect Karr Has Never Been in Colorado |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 11:26 AM |
#187 |

And you know this how? nt |
Marie26 |
Aug-17-06 11:48 AM |
#189 |
 
Watch the News |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 11:55 AM |
#191 |

If there's one lesson |
Marie26 |
Aug-17-06 11:58 AM |
#192 |
 
The Results of the DNA TEST |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 12:12 PM |
#194 |

So, no link then? OK. nt |
Marie26 |
Aug-17-06 12:15 PM |
#195 |
 
Put On the News! It's Being Reported Right Now. n/t |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 12:19 PM |
#196 |

Uh- huh. |
Marie26 |
Aug-17-06 12:25 PM |
#198 |

Akim, why are you so vehemently defending Mr. Karr? |
L A Woman |
Aug-17-06 07:44 PM |
#208 |

Karr Is Innocent Except In His Own Warped Mind |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 07:55 PM |
#212 |

i have never seen/heard any evidence against John Ramsey |
L A Woman |
Aug-17-06 08:08 PM |
#219 |

i heard last night he lived in boulder for a while? |
gauguin57 |
Aug-17-06 12:00 PM |
#193 |

I don't see any proof on any of the things being said about Karr |
anotherdrew |
Aug-17-06 08:03 PM |
#217 |

John Ramsey has lost two daughters |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 07:07 PM |
#206 |

His Wife: The One & Only Eyewitness to His Crime Died. Yeah, He Was Lucky. |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 07:50 PM |
#210 |

enough already |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 07:55 PM |
#211 |

Why Are You So Sure John Ramsey Didn't Commit the Crime? n/t |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 07:57 PM |
#214 |

for the same reason he has never been charged |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 07:59 PM |
#215 |

Hitler Was Never Charged With Anything Either. |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 08:04 PM |
#218 |

HITLER? |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 11:04 PM |
#220 |

"Not Being Charged With a Crime" Is Not the Same Thing as Innocence |
Akim |
Aug-17-06 11:34 PM |
#221 |

Curious is that this is 10 years later... Statute of limitations? |
calipendence |
Aug-17-06 11:47 AM |
#188 |

the whole thing smells of a huge distraction to me |
NotGivingUp |
Aug-17-06 12:24 PM |
#197 |
 
and NOW they are starting to say 'hoax' |
HuffleClaw |
Aug-18-06 02:46 AM |
#222 |

Let Monk sort this out |
Massachusetts |
Aug-17-06 01:55 PM |
#199 |

well put |
saigon68 |
Aug-17-06 01:56 PM |
#200 |

it is possible to care about more than one thing |
Skittles |
Aug-17-06 07:56 PM |
#213 |