happyslug
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Sat Jul-22-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
| 27. because he is the only person who can show a "Harm" do to this law. |
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Under the US Constitution the Courts can ONLY hear cases where someone has a claim. The ACLU can NOT file against the law if it has NO client that would be affected. Thus you stuck with Phelps. Other people will be affected but they have to show HOW, with Phelps he has a history of doing such protests and thus has a "Cause of Action" when it comes to this law.
Now as to why the law is restricted to Military Funerals, the courts have been more sympathetic to restrictions on the First Amendment if the restriction is narrowly written, i.e. NOT all funerals, just Military Funerals. Thus the authors of the law made an attempt to make it as constitutional as possible by making it as narrow as possible (and against a KNOWN problem, not a theoretical problem). Thus the law has an ability to be constitutional, but Funerals have ALWAYS been used for political purposes. Look at th irish wakes during the Irish Civil War of 1921-1921. Another case os that of the Chicago black child killed and mutilated by Mississippi racist (His mother insisted on an open coffin to show his injuries as a political statement). Thus funerals CAN BE political statements, as while as providing mourning. When people make anti-war or pro-war statements at a funeral is a Political Statement.
Thus the problem with this type of Statute, at what point does a funeral cease to be private and become a political statement? Except for private services, funeral are public that a continuing problem Funerals not only permit the family to mourn the loss, but Friends, and neighbors thus Funerals tend to be public. Thus the problem is where to cut off some opposing a political statement of a funeral (The problem is the most effective way to minimal such political statements in funerals is to leave it go, anything you do is worse, thus the British left the Irish do their protests during their funeral paraders, Mississippi kept quite about the death of the Chicago child).
Thus while I am torn by this statute, I tend to oppose it. First Phelps will die of old age sooner or later and with him his protest movement (Unless he decides it no longer pays to protest and cut out his protest before then), second the HARM such a statute will do LONG after Phelps is gone outlast the good such a statute will do while he is protesting (The statute could be used in any funeral situation even if no body is present, to stop protest against someone like Bush).
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| -Kansas Church to Fight Mo. Law in Court |
AnOhioan |
Jul-21-06 11:11 PM |
#0 |
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Here's how I look at it... |
IanDB1 |
Jul-21-06 11:19 PM |
#1 |
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The ACLU doesn't charge its clients |
proud2Blib |
Jul-21-06 11:44 PM |
#8 |
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Well just keep in mind that popular speech has no need of being |
Freedom_from_Chains |
Jul-21-06 11:22 PM |
#2 |
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I say no grounds for religious freedom only for free speech |
LiberalFighter |
Jul-21-06 11:22 PM |
#3 |
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Good point! |
proud2Blib |
Jul-21-06 11:45 PM |
#9 |
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I agree |
KansDem |
Jul-22-06 11:29 AM |
#22 |
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Hopefully nobody shows up for his funeral |
LiberalFighter |
Jul-22-06 10:44 PM |
#40 |
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Here, use this one |
krispos42 |
Jul-23-06 11:53 PM |
#70 |
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Free Speech is Free for everyone |
atreides1 |
Jul-21-06 11:23 PM |
#4 |
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I agree with you |
AnOhioan |
Jul-21-06 11:26 PM |
#5 |
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Does he actually have a "church"? A building where he |
annabanana |
Jul-22-06 06:18 AM |
#12 |
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he has a church. |
xchrom |
Jul-22-06 06:30 AM |
#13 |
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Then he should DEFinately be picketed!. . . . . .n/t |
annabanana |
Jul-22-06 10:53 AM |
#16 |
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He is |
MuseRider |
Jul-23-06 08:30 AM |
#49 |
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need protest contingent to show up there |
kineneb |
Jul-22-06 11:19 AM |
#18 |
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i wish we'd protest more than phelps. |
xchrom |
Jul-22-06 02:09 PM |
#26 |
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The "church" is in his compound, in downtown Topeka! |
nealmhughes |
Jul-22-06 03:58 PM |
#32 |
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I live nearby |
proud2Blib |
Jul-22-06 11:23 AM |
#19 |
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agreed--even the repulsive little jerk we call phrooty phred has a right |
niyad |
Jul-21-06 11:41 PM |
#7 |
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Let me ask you a question: |
kgfnally |
Jul-22-06 11:30 PM |
#43 |
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Well you have to think of it like this. |
PansophicOne |
Jul-23-06 10:31 PM |
#69 |
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Free speech is free speech |
proud2Blib |
Jul-21-06 11:38 PM |
#6 |
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yes, well said. |
rodeodance |
Jul-22-06 02:58 AM |
#10 |
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I spoke to Mr. Phelps and watched him protest me. I lived. |
keopeli |
Jul-22-06 06:05 AM |
#11 |
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When Phelps trekked across the country protesting "gay" funerals |
Solly Mack |
Jul-22-06 06:31 AM |
#14 |
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Minnesota did |
krispos42 |
Jul-24-06 12:17 AM |
#71 |
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speech is regulated -- contrary to what i'm seeing in this thread. |
xchrom |
Jul-22-06 06:33 AM |
#15 |
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You're correct n/t |
LostinVA |
Jul-22-06 11:24 AM |
#20 |
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My speech today, your speech tomorrow. |
Tesha |
Jul-22-06 03:37 PM |
#28 |
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what i understand is that your notion of free speech lowers the bar |
xchrom |
Jul-22-06 06:14 PM |
#35 |
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When you are gagged in the future, ... |
Tesha |
Jul-22-06 06:42 PM |
#36 |
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all societies regulate speech -- even the most |
xchrom |
Jul-22-06 06:48 PM |
#37 |
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Political speech in this country is essentially unregulated. |
Tesha |
Jul-23-06 05:03 PM |
#68 |
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Some years ago, I had exactly this argument with a good friend ... |
struggle4progress |
Jul-23-06 02:20 AM |
#46 |
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Precisely |
Telly Savalas |
Jul-22-06 11:17 PM |
#42 |
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no one is arguing that speech is "unregulated" |
Charlie Brown |
Jul-23-06 03:54 AM |
#47 |
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Local law enforcement could easily and quickly |
dogfacedboy |
Jul-23-06 11:48 AM |
#64 |
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I am utterly amazed |
DiverDave |
Jul-22-06 11:02 AM |
#17 |
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Yes I am amazed by that as well |
proud2Blib |
Jul-22-06 11:26 AM |
#21 |
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because phelps and his ilk are just DYING for |
Blue_Tires |
Jul-22-06 03:44 PM |
#29 |
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They'll have to be careful with this. |
MGKrebs |
Jul-22-06 11:37 AM |
#23 |
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a law barring demonstrations around schools would be equally unconst'l |
Charlie Brown |
Jul-22-06 01:21 PM |
#24 |
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I don't agree. There are limitations. |
MGKrebs |
Jul-22-06 09:24 PM |
#38 |
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this is speech we're talking about, not lewd behavior |
Charlie Brown |
Jul-23-06 01:05 AM |
#45 |
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I'm not saying we don't have free speech. I'm just saying it's tricky. |
MGKrebs |
Jul-23-06 07:31 AM |
#48 |
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The ACLU is so clueless |
bluestateguy |
Jul-22-06 01:32 PM |
#25 |
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because he is the only person who can show a "Harm" do to this law. |
happyslug |
Jul-22-06 03:36 PM |
#27 |
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I would love to shoot Fred Phelps. |
The Blue Knight |
Jul-22-06 03:51 PM |
#30 |
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He isn't worth it. |
happyslug |
Jul-22-06 10:54 PM |
#41 |
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The way I look at it |
me b zola |
Jul-22-06 03:54 PM |
#31 |
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The Repugs have already linked ACLU with 'liberals' |
Danieljay |
Jul-23-06 04:17 PM |
#66 |
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Uh..... oh, my God. I can't believe what you are saying. |
Rabrrrrrr |
Jul-24-06 07:18 PM |
#72 |
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But, but, but the ACLU is a communist organization! It's anti-christian! |
54anickel |
Jul-22-06 04:11 PM |
#33 |
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I must admit this is ironic |
insleeforprez |
Jul-22-06 04:27 PM |
#34 |
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ACLU does a healthy side business in irony |
FredScuttle |
Jul-22-06 09:29 PM |
#39 |
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Wouldn't that be something? If the Democratic party had as much integrity |
Rabrrrrrr |
Jul-24-06 07:20 PM |
#73 |
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I started giving in '92 |
FredScuttle |
Jul-24-06 07:59 PM |
#74 |
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i think this law is a travesty |
HuffleClaw |
Jul-22-06 11:44 PM |
#44 |
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I may not always agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your |
CornField |
Jul-23-06 09:15 AM |
#50 |
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kick to combine duplicate. |
Pithlet |
Jul-23-06 11:02 AM |
#51 |
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ACLU Sues for Anti-Gay Group That Pickets at Troops' Burials |
Biernuts |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#52 |
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As well they should. |
asthmaticeog |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#53 |
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You are absolutly correct. |
Freedom_from_Chains |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#56 |
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yup. the only reason this is happening now is because they |
jonnyblitz |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#57 |
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That long? Wow. |
asthmaticeog |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#61 |
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Randy Shilts, gay author of AIDs epic "And the Band Played On" |
jonnyblitz |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#62 |
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I personally favor a very tough federal law that anyone killing |
Biernuts |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#59 |
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This shows that the ACLU |
ayeshahaqqiqa |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#54 |
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Well... |
MrPrax |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#55 |
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Biernuts |
Pithlet |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#58 |
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OK - consider it done n/t |
Biernuts |
Jul-23-06 11:03 AM |
#60 |
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Thanks. |
Pithlet |
Jul-23-06 11:04 AM |
#63 |
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This is just stupid. |
Placebo |
Jul-23-06 03:26 PM |
#65 |
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This will be a huge campaign issue for the Republicans. They have already |
Danieljay |
Jul-23-06 04:21 PM |
#67 |
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Only if we let it so... |
FredScuttle |
Jul-24-06 08:03 PM |
#75 |