|
1) I don't have a medical degree, my degree is in chemistry. You may be right, but you aren't contradicting what I said about the soldiers not breaking his legs, which you admit was done to hasten death.
2)Buzzards or dogs, my point was that the body was normally disposed of in an unkind manner. You have bolstered my contention that the body was not normally given a proper burial, so there may have been a bribe involved.
3)Yes, the bible says that after he "gave up his spirit", his side was pierced, and blood and water came out. I stand by what I said: that this may not have killed him. There is one other thing I noticed. If he was dead, would blood have been circulating, since his heart would have been stopped? Like I said, I don't have a medical degree.
4)You are right that the accounts mention bystanders. I must have been thinking of the "women looking on from afar", but I stand corrected.
5)Misinformation about the medical facts of crucifixion? Is there much study done of actual crucifixions now, or is it mostly conjecture? And misinformation about the biblical accounts varies from book to book. I still don't know Jesus' last words.
I also stand by what I said about people being more concerned with the tricks, and less concerned with the message of love.
Bill
|
| -'Gospel of Judas' Surfaces After 1,700 Years (Jesus asked to be betrayed) |
RamboLiberal |
Apr-06-06 12:00 PM |
#0 |
-
This is really cool |
AngryAmish |
Apr-06-06 12:02 PM |
#1 |
 -
oh boy, the fundies are going to go nuts. first jesus on ice, now it's |
okieinpain |
Apr-06-06 12:05 PM |
#2 |
  -
There are dozens of gospels claiming weird stuff. |
Teaser |
Apr-06-06 12:12 PM |
#8 |
   -
My favorite one was when Jesus would kill his playmates. |
AngryAmish |
Apr-06-06 12:16 PM |
#14 |
    -
My favorite one is talking about Jesus and his soccer team and... |
Javaman |
Apr-06-06 01:26 PM |
#53 |
   -
I'm not certain any of the Gospels talk about Jesus' childhood |
hedgehog |
Apr-06-06 12:18 PM |
#15 |
    -
The Infancy Gospels of James and Thomas |
Teaser |
Apr-06-06 12:25 PM |
#19 |
   -
"Weird stuff" may explain why these gospels didn't make it into the |
hedgehog |
Apr-06-06 01:34 PM |
#59 |
   -
in those, Jesus was a brat and killed a kid. then he changed. I |
roguevalley |
Apr-06-06 01:51 PM |
#69 |
    -
I'm not a big believer in "pagan" influences on Christianity |
Teaser |
Apr-06-06 04:53 PM |
#108 |
   -
read these books, then consider their content. it will boggle you |
roguevalley |
Apr-06-06 05:06 PM |
#112 |
   -
It really does not matter whether one believes in influences or not. |
MaryBear |
Apr-07-06 12:49 AM |
#167 |
   -
The entire Bible is full of |
FlaGranny |
Apr-07-06 09:41 AM |
#172 |
   -
Well, Teaser, I think you have things a bit backwards. The Gnostics were |
Peace Patriot |
Apr-06-06 04:28 PM |
#106 |
    -
Gnostic Christian is an oxymoron. |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 05:26 PM |
#116 |
     -
I disagree |
DIKB |
Apr-06-06 06:25 PM |
#123 |
      -
Bible: conceived in sin |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 06:50 PM |
#128 |
       -
"We", eh? You got a mouse in your pocket? |
kestrel91316 |
Apr-06-06 10:11 PM |
#150 |
      -
What are you talking about?! |
mycritters2 |
Apr-07-06 05:25 PM |
#190 |
     -
Excuse me? |
DIKB |
Apr-07-06 07:28 PM |
#193 |
     -
Great reply; you explained Gnosticism perfectly./nt |
Roaming |
Apr-06-06 07:27 PM |
#131 |
     -
Microsoft Works |
edwardlindy |
Apr-07-06 10:21 AM |
#174 |
     -
You read, but do not understand |
The Traveler |
Apr-07-06 11:43 PM |
#197 |
    -
Thanks, PP. I value your expertise in this area. n/t |
truth2power |
Apr-06-06 11:30 PM |
#158 |
    -
Ahhhh, the pink laser! It eats my brain! |
mainegreen |
Apr-07-06 11:33 AM |
#178 |
    -
Gee, sounds exacly like today's Right-WingNut-Fundamentalists: |
Megahurtz |
Apr-07-06 03:23 PM |
#183 |
   -
Would you like to site the passage you are referring to? |
DoYouEverWonder |
Apr-06-06 05:04 PM |
#110 |
   -
huh??? n/t |
orleans |
Apr-08-06 12:47 AM |
#199 |
  -
The "Judas was on an assignment" view has been around for awhile |
greyl |
Apr-06-06 12:13 PM |
#11 |
   -
It stretches back to the Middle Ages, at least |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 12:36 PM |
#22 |
    -
I remember in "The Last Temptation of Christ" that it has at least |
coalition_unwilling |
Apr-06-06 01:40 PM |
#64 |
   -
In the book it's a very strong theme |
SheWhoMustBeObeyed |
Apr-06-06 06:14 PM |
#122 |
   -
It's also a central theme in "Jesus Christ Superstar". (NT) |
Tesha |
Apr-06-06 01:49 PM |
#68 |
  -
Not really |
AngryAmish |
Apr-06-06 12:15 PM |
#12 |
   -
You are right, Bible was developed out of the Council of Nicea. |
rkc3 |
Apr-06-06 01:36 PM |
#61 |
    -
the book "the Da Vinci Code" mentions this |
TrogL |
Apr-06-06 02:05 PM |
#78 |
   -
yes, and quite a few other books/articles of same/similar subject |
katty |
Apr-06-06 04:17 PM |
#103 |
   -
And you are not suspicious of this cementing of religion with the power |
Peace Patriot |
Apr-06-06 04:54 PM |
#109 |
  -
Good Stretch, Repression of Paganism did not occur till Justinian |
happyslug |
Apr-06-06 09:47 PM |
#147 |
  -
Religion and power of the state has always existed |
AngryAmish |
Apr-07-06 08:54 AM |
#170 |
  -
The fundies should love it... |
dchill |
Apr-06-06 04:01 PM |
#99 |
 -
I'm looking forward to reading this new one. It sounds like it confirms... |
WePurrsevere |
Apr-06-06 12:20 PM |
#17 |
-
They found The Passover Plot? |
displacedtexan |
Apr-06-06 12:05 PM |
#3 |
 -
Somewhat different plots |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 12:38 PM |
#26 |
  -
It was also about being martyred. |
displacedtexan |
Apr-06-06 01:37 PM |
#62 |
 -
I remember reading that years ago. That book said that Jesus |
BrklynLiberal |
Apr-06-06 03:31 PM |
#96 |
-
Thanks for the link! |
xmas74 |
Apr-06-06 12:06 PM |
#4 |
-
I smell coverup... |
Canuckistanian |
Apr-06-06 12:07 PM |
#5 |
 -
Yeah-- obviously |
TexasLawyer |
Apr-06-06 12:22 PM |
#18 |
 -
"First of all, it was forty pieces. So you understand my position." |
Inland |
Apr-06-06 12:49 PM |
#30 |
 -
I've never had much animus against Judas |
Penance |
Apr-06-06 02:16 PM |
#85 |
-
Right, it was pre-ordained |
Canuckistanian |
Apr-06-06 06:29 PM |
#124 |
-
The National Geographic Channel is supposed to have a special |
Connie_Corleone |
Apr-06-06 12:10 PM |
#6 |
 -
justintime for Advertising the DAVINCI CODE w Tom Hanks-playing next month |
NIGHT TRIPPER |
Apr-06-06 01:18 PM |
#50 |
-
This kind of crap always appears around Holy Week |
mycritters2 |
Apr-07-06 05:17 PM |
#187 |
-
It was found in the 1970's - you should change your headline. |
greyl |
Apr-06-06 12:10 PM |
#7 |
 -
See Pg. 2 of the NY Times online article. |
Roland99 |
Apr-06-06 12:58 PM |
#37 |
-
I can't, what does it say? nt |
greyl |
Apr-06-06 01:14 PM |
#46 |
-
Same thing...first found in 1970. |
Roland99 |
Apr-06-06 02:18 PM |
#86 |
-
Haha, oh :) |
greyl |
Apr-06-06 02:46 PM |
#91 |
-
"The only known text...said to be a copy...of the original" |
FiveGoodMen |
Apr-06-06 12:12 PM |
#9 |
 -
In this case, because they had references to the original from other |
jobycom |
Apr-06-06 12:38 PM |
#25 |
-
hey thanks. I'm going to show this to my wife. she will probably make |
okieinpain |
Apr-06-06 01:52 PM |
#70 |
-
accepted story. I have a hard time believing churches and their |
roguevalley |
Apr-06-06 02:00 PM |
#73 |
-
Understand, just because it's old doesn't make it true. |
hedgehog |
Apr-06-06 12:13 PM |
#10 |
 -
It's interesting because it could also be what those who tossed them out |
WePurrsevere |
Apr-06-06 12:47 PM |
#29 |
 -
"Just because it's old..." That's ONE of things that historians look at, |
Peace Patriot |
Apr-06-06 05:41 PM |
#118 |
-
Jerry Garcia? I thought he was dead! |
endarkenment |
Apr-06-06 12:15 PM |
#13 |
-
Of course they'll say that its just another |
LouisianaLiberal |
Apr-06-06 12:18 PM |
#16 |
-
Concerning the "Betrayal of Judas"... |
w13rd0 |
Apr-06-06 12:27 PM |
#20 |
 -
speaking of Saul of Tarsus |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 12:41 PM |
#27 |
-
and, just because some male bishops |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 12:30 PM |
#21 |
-
This codex is a copy of an original believed written in 200 AD? |
Old Crusoe |
Apr-06-06 12:36 PM |
#23 |
 -
Textual analysis and contemporary references |
jobycom |
Apr-06-06 12:55 PM |
#35 |
  -
jobycom, thank you very much for that response. It puts me in the |
Old Crusoe |
Apr-06-06 01:26 PM |
#54 |
 -
Well, I was trained as an historian |
jobycom |
Apr-06-06 01:59 PM |
#72 |
 -
Well I say you get a raise. |
Old Crusoe |
Apr-06-06 02:02 PM |
#77 |
 -
Thanks! You can be my new best friend!! |
jobycom |
Apr-06-06 02:30 PM |
#88 |
 -
Because... |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 01:01 PM |
#38 |
  -
Hi, TechBear. I hear you on that. I would concede to a selfish response |
Old Crusoe |
Apr-06-06 01:29 PM |
#56 |
 -
One text I have |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 01:06 PM |
#42 |
-
Any confirmation of my suspicions of Bishop Iraneous is welcome, |
Old Crusoe |
Apr-06-06 01:35 PM |
#60 |
-
I gave the book to my brother-in-law |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 02:07 PM |
#79 |
-
Old Crusoe |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 02:20 PM |
#87 |
-
Old Crusoe, sorry I'm late |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 09:38 PM |
#142 |
-
OK, this raises a serious common sense question................... |
Minnesota Libra |
Apr-06-06 12:37 PM |
#24 |
 -
Not if Jesus believed he was "the son of god" and going to his glory. |
lindisfarne |
Apr-06-06 12:53 PM |
#33 |
 -
Martyrdom. Jesus wasn't a messiah but he knew he could be made into one |
Roland99 |
Apr-06-06 12:56 PM |
#36 |
 -
Jesus didn't "want" to be betrayed |
hedgehog |
Apr-06-06 01:10 PM |
#44 |
  -
Human nature never changes |
AngryAmish |
Apr-06-06 01:34 PM |
#58 |
 -
Jesus evolved past the petty ego & lived to do the Universal Will |
cryingshame |
Apr-06-06 01:32 PM |
#57 |
  -
I like the way |
there-s a |
Apr-06-06 01:39 PM |
#63 |
 -
Reading the bible closely... |
Chemical Bill |
Apr-06-06 02:02 PM |
#74 |
-
Actually, it's not the bleeding from the broken legs |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Apr-06-06 10:27 PM |
#152 |
-
Have to disagreewith your first sentence |
FlaGranny |
Apr-07-06 10:11 AM |
#173 |
 -
Thank you, ma'm. n/t |
Chemical Bill |
Apr-07-06 07:43 PM |
#195 |
-
Point by point... |
Chemical Bill |
Apr-07-06 07:40 PM |
#194 |
-
The medical accounts of crucifixions were worked out by a French |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Apr-08-06 05:09 PM |
#204 |
-
Forgive me for being illiterate... |
brooklynite |
Apr-06-06 12:43 PM |
#28 |
 -
Histories are often passed down for generations by oral tradition then |
lindisfarne |
Apr-06-06 12:52 PM |
#32 |
 -
well, because |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 12:54 PM |
#34 |
 -
It has less historical significance for Jesus than for the early Church. |
jobycom |
Apr-06-06 01:06 PM |
#41 |
 -
It doesn't have any authenticity, nor significance |
mycritters2 |
Apr-07-06 05:18 PM |
#188 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-06-06 12:50 PM |
#31 |
-
Thanks for positng.... |
RedEarth |
Apr-06-06 01:01 PM |
#39 |
-
Looking for a recently published book |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 01:05 PM |
#40 |
 -
Not sure, but Robin Lane Fox writes about it, too |
jobycom |
Apr-06-06 01:12 PM |
#45 |
 -
Are you talking about "Misquoting Jesus" |
supernova |
Apr-06-06 01:14 PM |
#47 |
  -
That's the very book! |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 02:02 PM |
#76 |
  -
My only problem with "Misquoting Jesus" is... |
Chemical Bill |
Apr-06-06 02:09 PM |
#81 |
  -
He was on The Daily Show recently. |
BrklynLiberal |
Apr-06-06 03:38 PM |
#97 |
 -
why do you need a recently published book? |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 02:16 PM |
#84 |
  -
Because... |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 04:03 PM |
#100 |
 -
ok, but since the Bible has been exposed as a fraud so long ago |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 04:49 PM |
#107 |
 -
Who/When/Where exposed the Bible as a fraud? |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 05:11 PM |
#113 |
 -
Thomas Paine... "Age of Reason" ...200+ years ago...France..n/t |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 05:22 PM |
#115 |
 -
I'll take Paul over Thomas Paine any day of the week |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 05:39 PM |
#117 |
  -
Wow, almost nobody likes Paul. Especially Christians. |
superconnected |
Apr-06-06 05:49 PM |
#120 |
   -
Actually... |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 09:26 PM |
#137 |
  -
Have you read it? It systematically debunks the Bible book by.. |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 06:04 PM |
#121 |
 -
haven't read Paine's debunking |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 06:44 PM |
#125 |
 -
Paine also actually, again using the Bible itself, shows that it was |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 07:19 PM |
#130 |
 -
couple of points to ponder |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 09:33 PM |
#140 |
 -
response |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 10:52 PM |
#154 |
 -
I believe this stuff and I tend to be a skeptic about everything |
CreekDog |
Apr-07-06 12:01 AM |
#162 |
 -
Paine offered a critique and an explanation on why he did not believe |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 09:02 PM |
#135 |
 -
minimize it all you want.... |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 09:32 PM |
#139 |
 -
it is not inconsistent |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 09:41 PM |
#143 |
 -
well I'm not going to spend too much time banging my head... |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 10:59 PM |
#155 |
 -
You insisting on reason in spiritual matters |
CreekDog |
Apr-07-06 12:05 AM |
#163 |
 -
forgot to answer your question |
CreekDog |
Apr-07-06 12:10 AM |
#164 |
 -
If faith could be restricted to the spiritual side, there wouldn't be a |
theobscure |
Apr-07-06 12:44 AM |
#166 |
 -
Pretty much Gnosticism |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 02:56 PM |
#93 |
  -
Except that.... |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 03:59 PM |
#98 |
   -
But that answer is too clever for me |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 04:20 PM |
#104 |
  -
I'm not going to argue theology |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-06-06 09:28 PM |
#138 |
  -
"The Fortunate Fall" |
okasha |
Apr-08-06 12:45 AM |
#198 |
  -
How could it be so? |
FlaGranny |
Apr-07-06 10:31 AM |
#175 |
 -
Bart Ehrman: maybe Lost Christianities and another called Lost Scriptures |
Supersedeas |
Apr-07-06 01:02 PM |
#180 |
-
I will have to track those down, thanks. n/t |
TechBear_Seattle |
Apr-07-06 01:18 PM |
#181 |
-
I thought this was a parody news post |
The Witch |
Apr-06-06 01:08 PM |
#43 |
 -
I like the way you think. |
Chemical Bill |
Apr-06-06 02:11 PM |
#82 |
-
I like the "Jesus Christ Super Star" story better. |
0007 |
Apr-06-06 01:15 PM |
#48 |
-
All Christians, bar none, ignore certain parts of the bible and other |
kiraboo |
Apr-06-06 01:17 PM |
#49 |
 -
many like to interpret the Bible as an "expert"-with no research/training |
NIGHT TRIPPER |
Apr-06-06 01:40 PM |
#65 |
-
So, if there is significance of numbers in the text |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 02:33 PM |
#89 |
-
sure--it's pretty easy-- |
NIGHT TRIPPER |
Apr-06-06 08:29 PM |
#134 |
-
Newspeak, you might want to check out |
truth2power |
Apr-06-06 11:27 PM |
#156 |
-
Glory Glory Halli 'burton...no one's ever learned anything from history.. |
jus_the_facts |
Apr-06-06 01:21 PM |
#51 |
-
Who? |
fshrink |
Apr-06-06 01:22 PM |
#52 |
-
want to really have your mind blown |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 01:27 PM |
#55 |
 -
This is all pretty interesting |
mycritters2 |
Apr-06-06 02:37 PM |
#90 |
  -
Debunked by whom? And for what reasons? |
MrMonk |
Apr-06-06 05:05 PM |
#111 |
 -
Most effectively by James Robinson, one of the best NT scholars |
mycritters2 |
Apr-07-06 05:11 PM |
#185 |
 -
LOL....anti-religious = tin foil hat? interesting n/t |
theobscure |
Apr-07-06 05:16 PM |
#186 |
 -
You know, the "Council of Ncaea was a conspiracy |
mycritters2 |
Apr-07-06 05:29 PM |
#192 |
 -
The Zoroastrians are not "John the Baptist believers" |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Apr-06-06 10:31 PM |
#153 |
  -
answer:Mandeans |
kineneb |
Apr-06-06 11:49 PM |
#161 |
 -
thank you all for the information |
newspeak |
Apr-07-06 11:13 AM |
#177 |
 -
That's interesting, because there's another tradition |
MrMonk |
Apr-07-06 05:29 PM |
#191 |
 -
That's the Mandaeans, newspeak. |
okasha |
Apr-08-06 12:54 AM |
#200 |
-
I agree with the test Jesus knew Judas was going to betray him |
lovuian |
Apr-06-06 01:44 PM |
#66 |
-
you know I like this thread, alot of info here, that's why I like DU. |
okieinpain |
Apr-06-06 01:46 PM |
#67 |
-
Off topic, but "Terry Garcia" is an unfortunate name for a scholar. n/t |
FSogol |
Apr-06-06 01:55 PM |
#71 |
 -
Combination of Jerry Garcia and Terry Garr. I think it's perfect. |
Bucky |
Apr-06-06 04:05 PM |
#101 |
-
Have these findings been tested scientifically? |
AuntiBush |
Apr-06-06 02:02 PM |
#75 |
 -
That's what the story's about |
jobycom |
Apr-06-06 02:12 PM |
#83 |
-
so Jesus had a Jesus complex n/t |
theobscure |
Apr-06-06 02:07 PM |
#80 |
-
Misquoting Jesus -- Excellent layman's book on NT textual criticism |
evworldeditor |
Apr-06-06 02:55 PM |
#92 |
 -
Also check out The Jesus Legend and The Jesus Myth by G.A. Wells |
Barrett808 |
Apr-06-06 04:21 PM |
#105 |
 -
From Jesus to Christianity - L. Michael White |
Roland99 |
Apr-06-06 11:30 PM |
#157 |
-
Stand Up For Judas! (folk song) |
0rganism |
Apr-06-06 03:11 PM |
#94 |
 -
Love it! Conveys all we need to know about which path in life to take. |
ShortnFiery |
Apr-06-06 09:43 PM |
#146 |
-
thanks for the Luke 18:9 cite |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 10:06 PM |
#149 |
-
You're welcome n/t |
ShortnFiery |
Apr-06-06 10:14 PM |
#151 |
-
Cool, I love good new fiction! |
Zhade |
Apr-06-06 03:13 PM |
#95 |
-
so this is rough draft then. Before the more dramatic re-write. n/t |
bee |
Apr-06-06 04:11 PM |
#102 |
-
This reads like Bible fan fiction lol |
melody |
Apr-06-06 05:12 PM |
#114 |
-
you gotta wonder why people would want a book by Judas |
superconnected |
Apr-06-06 05:42 PM |
#119 |
 -
well, actually, didn't Mark Twain |
newspeak |
Apr-06-06 09:43 PM |
#145 |
-
How fucking boring! One group of religionists vs another. Next problem |
VegasWolf |
Apr-06-06 06:46 PM |
#126 |
 -
The story was about religion |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 06:56 PM |
#129 |
-
Just offering my opinion!!! Actually I feel all religion is boring and I |
VegasWolf |
Apr-06-06 07:59 PM |
#133 |
-
Okay, no problem |
CreekDog |
Apr-06-06 09:43 PM |
#144 |
 -
LOL. but actually I like drunks! |
VegasWolf |
Apr-06-06 11:46 PM |
#160 |
-
drunks are only fun if you're drunk with them |
CreekDog |
Apr-07-06 12:14 AM |
#165 |
-
Oh alas! |
ShortnFiery |
Apr-06-06 10:05 PM |
#148 |
-
The Invisible Sky People are being sarcastic! nt |
VegasWolf |
Apr-07-06 12:56 PM |
#179 |
-
Duplicate post. |
VegasWolf |
Apr-06-06 06:46 PM |
#127 |
-
this is like sooo... whatever |
sweetheart |
Apr-06-06 07:47 PM |
#132 |
 -
He said she said my grandmother told me, is what the Bible is |
MaryBear |
Apr-07-06 12:58 AM |
#168 |
-
So Judas was a good German - he was just following orders |
JPZenger |
Apr-06-06 09:15 PM |
#136 |
-
The Secret to Good Show Business Is .... Timing |
Crisco |
Apr-06-06 09:36 PM |
#141 |
-
NATIONAL GEO CHANNEL TO AIR "GOSPEL OF JUDAS" SUNDAY NIGHT. |
Maddy McCall |
Apr-06-06 11:31 PM |
#159 |
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I'm a history buff, I love this kind of stuff |
Raine |
Apr-07-06 02:13 AM |
#169 |
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A copy made in 300 A.D of the original made in 200 A.D. |
brentspeak |
Apr-07-06 09:32 AM |
#171 |
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Indeed, and this also applies |
FlaGranny |
Apr-07-06 10:33 AM |
#176 |
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Books of the New Testament were mostly written in the first and early |
Zynx |
Apr-07-06 03:34 PM |
#184 |
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The "Gospel of Judas" was written well after the canon |
mycritters2 |
Apr-07-06 05:21 PM |
#189 |
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So I guess we're all not going to Hell after all!!! |
Megahurtz |
Apr-07-06 03:07 PM |
#182 |
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The Existence Of Historical Christ |
phrenzy |
Apr-07-06 08:34 PM |
#196 |
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big deal... |
madrchsod |
Apr-08-06 02:04 AM |
#201 |
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Many of the twisted stories in bible are philsophical adaptations |
nolabels |
Apr-08-06 09:00 AM |
#202 |
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i know i was being cynical |
madrchsod |
Apr-08-06 03:26 PM |
#203 |