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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #64
79. Religion Redux
What follows, Oregonian, is a post made first at U75 about 12-18 months ago and resused here at DU once before. I still hold to the points made then.

***

Just as Chomsky says there is a "language organ" in the brain, I think there is also a "spiritual organ" -- i.e., we are perhaps preprogrammed by countless generations of natural selection to pursue spiritual "truth", "salvation", "peace", and "meaning". To deny that pursuit with "zeal or conscientious devotion" is equally an expression of that preprogrammed given in our natures, albeit in disguised form.

Joseph Campbell describes 4 major cultural functions for religion (IIRC): (i) to engender sustaining and grounding "mystical" experience in a few (the founding roots of religions), (ii) to provide order and meaning that allows a political/economic system to florish, (iii) to establish and justify a ruling priestly class that benefits a few and maintains the general order, (iv) to function as a screening myth that keeps system-contrarian truths from the minds of the non-privileged classes. There is nothing wrong with item one; it all goes downhill with the latter three. That preprogrammed pursuit of the spiritual gets hijacked again and again for sociopolitical purposes that maintain, sustain, and benefit selfish hierarchy -- and at complete variance (usually) from the "mystical" experiences that served to found the religious order in the first place -- steers us into discussions of our natures that spill far beyond just the "religious" in us.

Having said that, my wife (Kriss) is a devout Christian. I can say unequivocally that her church (a small charismatic church) is filled with men and women of good spirit who turn to Sundays for nourishment, comfort, and community. The values and ideals upheld are positive and healing. During the rest of the week many do much community work to alleviate the suffering of others. In and of itself there is nothing negative with this at all; on the contrary, this is a beautiful thing.

If I can wax metaphorically here I think there are levels to consciousness, spheres turning slowly within spheres. Up above are the spheres of transpersonal experience (the mystical, spiritual, revelatory). Down below are the spheres of the wounded child, the detritus of our tragic personal histories. In between are the spheres of the everyday self that balances the checkbook and clocks in at work. A retreat into any one at the cost of the others is disorder, disease.

The transpersonal in flight from the weight of the everyday or acknowledgement of our woundings can lead to imbalance and fanaticism; a retreat below can lead to depression, emotional chaos, continuance and increase of pain. And a retreat into the everyday in denial of the above/below can lead to ennui, emptiness, and meaninglessness. What's called for, and the words of many spiritual leaders across time have called for this, is balance and integration of all spheres.

To the extent that religion orders and integrates it can be tolerated (by me). I understand that many of us are strong enough to stand alone, separate from the ordering community of religions (Tillich's the courage to stand apart vs. the courage to participate, two poles of the courage to be in a world where God can seem very absent -- the many of us fall at various points along this valid continuum). But I am also fully aware how the sensitive spheres can be hijacked for banal (even evil) purposes. And I am aware how the screening myths of religions can distract from and postpone the fight for corrective social justice and equality. On this contradiction I don't pretend to have answers, but unlike some I neither embrace naively nor reject wholly the fundamental drives that lead men and women to bond together in intended good will under the banners of various religions.

But, hey, that's just me <---- lost in Samsarra, swimming in our Ocean of Tears...
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  - The religious fundies worst nightmare: AIDS could be cured  bluestateguy   Nov-13-05 03:56 AM   #1 
  - Yeah, makes me think of all the times  tenshi816   Nov-13-05 03:59 AM   #3 
  - They'll declare War on Medicine  shockingelk   Nov-13-05 04:15 AM   #5 
  - Their god  zidzi   Nov-13-05 01:41 PM   #41 
     - is not my god.  nemo137   Nov-14-05 05:05 PM   #76 
  - They believe diseasea- all of them- to be punishment  kgfnally   Nov-13-05 04:11 AM   #4 
  - "They believe disease- all of them- to be punishment"  davekriss   Nov-13-05 07:28 PM   #44 
     - re: step outside "the wisdom of the Bible"  Oregonian   Nov-14-05 10:41 AM   #64 
        - It is filled with the wisdom of poetry and allegory  davekriss   Nov-14-05 11:21 PM   #78 
        - Religion Redux  davekriss   Nov-14-05 11:37 PM   #79 
  - IMHO it is the DRUG companies worst nightmare...  wakeme2008   Nov-13-05 04:53 AM   #9 
  - Wonderful news!  mexicoxpat   Nov-13-05 05:20 AM   #11 
  - what do you mean "unless"? ;-) n/t  progdonkey   Nov-13-05 06:12 AM   #13 
  - Wow! Hope Andrew Stimpson will not be the only success. n/t  Judi Lynn   Nov-13-05 03:58 AM   #2 
  - how I hope this is true; how I hope it can be duplicated  darkmaestro019   Nov-13-05 04:16 AM   #6 
  - I hear you in a way  Old sixties guy   Nov-13-05 06:51 PM   #43 
  - If true this is wonderful  shenmue   Nov-13-05 04:23 AM   #7 
  - It's one guy. And it's too damn late for my best friend.  aquart   Nov-13-05 04:52 AM   #8 
  - Well I'm sorry about your friends  shenmue   Nov-13-05 06:00 AM   #12 
  - dude  progdonkey   Nov-13-05 06:16 AM   #14 
  - Lost my friend too, and understand how you feel  eowyn_of_rohan   Nov-13-05 08:41 AM   #18 
  - Well, I Pretty Damned Sure All My Friends Lost To AIDS Would Be Supportive  cryingshame   Nov-13-05 12:33 PM   #37 
  - My wife TODAY is cross-country at the funeral...  davekriss   Nov-13-05 07:43 PM   #45 
  - It's one person, who was cured by himself?  lizzy   Nov-13-05 11:41 AM   #26 
     - Because if they discover the mechanism whereby his body beat it  alcibiades_mystery   Nov-13-05 12:05 PM   #32 
        - It's not that simple, I'm afraid.  Liberal Veteran   Nov-13-05 12:26 PM   #36 
  - amazing wonderful news!  xchrom   Nov-13-05 05:06 AM   #10 
  - Power of the mind baby!!!  shadowknows69   Nov-13-05 07:14 AM   #15 
  - Could it be the hospital covering their ass?  shawn703   Nov-13-05 08:22 AM   #16 
  - Probably not.  Straight Shooter   Nov-13-05 08:45 AM   #19 
  - That would be my bet too. Maybe they accidentally contaminated  lizzy   Nov-13-05 11:42 AM   #27 
     - That would be the most likely case....  Liberal Veteran   Nov-13-05 12:00 PM   #31 
        - Just like people going to fertility clinics in rare cases end up with  lizzy   Nov-13-05 12:06 PM   #33 
  - Not everyone is sure that this is true  Heaven and Earth   Nov-13-05 08:41 AM   #17 
  - There's more to the article  whatelseisnew   Nov-13-05 08:51 AM   #20 
  - WTF???  RadFemFL   Nov-13-05 10:09 AM   #22 
     - no, once he tested positive  northzax   Nov-13-05 10:29 AM   #23 
     - No, he wouldn't have antibodies.  Liberal Veteran   Nov-13-05 11:52 AM   #29 
        - Thanks For That Info. May I Ask, Wouldn't This Person Be Unique In That  cryingshame   Nov-13-05 12:46 PM   #38 
           - Assuming we take the story at face value....yes.  Liberal Veteran   Nov-13-05 12:53 PM   #40 
     - No, he has been told he is HIV positive, and since  lizzy   Nov-13-05 11:46 AM   #28 
  - Caution over HIV 'cure' claims  andyarundel   Nov-13-05 09:51 AM   #21 
  - Bottle Andrew Stimpson and sell him - nt  Barkley   Nov-13-05 10:37 AM   #24 
  - Not to throw cold water on this....  Liberal Veteran   Nov-13-05 11:31 AM   #25 
  - Good points.  rayofreason   Nov-13-05 11:53 AM   #30 
  - Funny, I've heard this story half a dozen times now.  sofa king   Nov-13-05 12:17 PM   #34 
  - Yep...when I read this I was nagged by a story I recall  Liberal Veteran   Nov-13-05 12:21 PM   #35 
  - I remember a story from the late '80s or early '90s.  Chemical Bill   Nov-13-05 02:44 PM   #42 
  - It is a hoax for two reasons  cosmicone   Nov-13-05 12:50 PM   #39 
  - UK Guardian: Man claims vitamins cured his HIV  Taxloss   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #46 
  - Big Pharma is going to have him killed.  BrklynLiberal   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #47 
  - Thje vitamin pill manufacturers will protect him  barb162   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #52 
  - .  kgfnally   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #62 
  - The sad thing is, is that  Megahurtz   Nov-14-05 11:17 AM   #66 
     - please just one example of this claim  andyarundel   Nov-15-05 06:59 AM   #80 
  - There are soooo many variable in this...  WindRavenX   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #48 
  - not to throw cold water on this, but  unblock   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #49 
  - But 2 false positives?  politicat   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #50 
  - you're assuming the two false positives are uncorrelated  unblock   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #53 
     - Well, usually when an HIV test comes back positive, a different test is  politicat   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #58 
  - Those are really good points.  barb162   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #51 
  - i got one more for ya --  unblock   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #54 
  - Hadn't thought of that! It would make sense  barb162   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #57 
  - The article I read  capaylib   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #56 
  - That's pretty much my thinking  Monkey see Monkey Do   Nov-14-05 09:51 AM   #63 
  - see also this thread in GLBT forum:  pinto   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #55 
  - I'll believe it when his doctors write him up in a REPUTABLE  kestrel91316   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #59 
  - hate to say it but this guy is probably a fraud  dwickham   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #60 
  - unfortunately, this story doesn't mean anything unless he submits to more  truthisfreedom   Nov-14-05 12:43 AM   #61 
  - Oh come on, he must have done SOMETHING  Megahurtz   Nov-14-05 10:47 AM   #65 
  - Is this the first person in the world to cure himself of HIV?  George Oilwellian   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #67 
  - What if..  ananda   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #68 
  - The article clearly stated...  George Oilwellian   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #73 
  - This is not the first person  zalinda   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #69 
  - Actually, they have....they weren't infected with HIV.  Liberal Veteran   Nov-14-05 10:19 PM   #77 
  - do you have some evidence based studies to .....  andyarundel   Nov-15-05 07:02 AM   #81 
  - I saw this on the BBC...I hope it is not a fake  YOY   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #70 
  - Also I recall cases of women in Africa being able to fight off the virus  whatever4   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #71 
  - I've heard of people not developing  nickinSTL   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #72 
  - I read that people were doing this in the late 80's.  MissMarple   Nov-14-05 12:50 PM   #74 
  - Nothing would please me more but...  William769   Nov-14-05 01:01 PM   #75 
  - Gibson predicted this in his book "virtual light"  LeftofU   Nov-15-05 10:28 AM   #82 
 

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