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youspeakmylanguage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-11-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. What?
How did she define "harmed"?

Her radical-feminist critique of pornography began with her first book, Woman Hating, published when she was 27. She campaigned frequently on the subject, helping to draft a law in 1983 that defined pornography as a civil rights violation against women.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,145722...

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  -Andrea Dworkin Has Died Modem Butterfly  Apr-11-05 12:25 PM   #0 
  - A real loss  Book Lover   Apr-11-05 12:27 PM   #1 
  - Watch out it also causes beastiality according to some pubes  MadisonProgressive   Apr-12-05 12:07 PM   #174 
  - whew. Glad I only have gay porn.  sui generis   Apr-11-05 12:28 PM   #2 
  - You naughty naughty boy you!  meegbear   Apr-11-05 12:29 PM   #5 
  - gay porn.....lol  bullimiami   Apr-11-05 12:42 PM   #13 
  - "All sex is rape"  UdoKier   Apr-11-05 12:28 PM   #3 
  - I'm not a big fan of Dworking  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 12:32 PM   #8 
  - Al Franken's joke  Jeff in Cincinnati   Apr-11-05 01:59 PM   #46 
  - OK, maybe she didn't actually say, "all sex is rape"...  Montauk6   Apr-11-05 02:13 PM   #50 
  - Is that Coleman Young in your avatar? N/T  PassingFair   Apr-11-05 06:58 PM   #123 
     - Detroit's own!  Montauk6   Apr-11-05 09:33 PM   #142 
        - He was the mayor while I was growing up in Detroit.  PassingFair   Apr-11-05 10:59 PM   #149 
  - "Penetrative intercourse is, by its nature, violent."  neuvocat   Apr-11-05 04:14 PM   #88 
  - See, here we have to get into definitions of "violent"  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 07:02 PM   #124 
     - Excellent Post. Thanks!  smirkymonkey   Apr-11-05 08:41 PM   #135 
     - Then ANY act of intimacy, committed by male or female, is a "violent" act  Montauk6   Apr-11-05 09:56 PM   #144 
     - You are ignoring context  Kelvin Mace   Apr-12-05 09:21 AM   #160 
        - Then,I can just as well say you're only focusing on ONE context  Montauk6   Apr-12-05 09:56 AM   #162 
           - Dworkin specifically set out her context  Kelvin Mace   Apr-12-05 11:39 AM   #168 
     - You are the Best!  FizzFuzz   Apr-11-05 11:03 PM   #150 
     - Dworkin testified before the Meese commission  Kelvin Mace   Apr-12-05 11:42 AM   #169 
     - I am so sad. Dworkin was a genuis and a prolific writer.  jdj   Apr-14-05 04:14 AM   #199 
  - So what positions does she condone?  MadisonProgressive   Apr-12-05 12:09 PM   #175 
  - yes - i didnt like her calling me a rapist.  RPM   Apr-11-05 02:57 PM   #62 
  - To Bad she isn't here to enlighten us on  saigon68   Apr-12-05 04:06 AM   #155 
  - Awwww  warrens   Apr-11-05 12:29 PM   #4 
  - Boy is she crazy  sasquatch   Apr-11-05 12:30 PM   #6 
  - Again, I disagree strongly with some of Dworkins views  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 12:38 PM   #11 
  - You have a point, if much understated.  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 12:59 PM   #21 
     - Well stated.  smirkymonkey   Apr-11-05 01:25 PM   #38 
  - She lost me totally when she asserted that  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 12:31 PM   #7 
  - Please see my post above  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 12:33 PM   #9 
  - I'm sorry, but I saw her on a major talk  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 12:37 PM   #10 
  - Geez, I hate to tell you this,  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 01:06 PM   #26 
  - hmmm, how come "thoughtcrimes.org" doesn't work..eom  grumpy old fart   Apr-11-05 12:45 PM   #14 
  - Might be a router problem with your ISP  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 12:49 PM   #16 
     - hmm, that's odd. I have a dsl line and using firefox browser....  grumpy old fart   Apr-11-05 12:57 PM   #19 
        - If there is a problem with  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 01:08 PM   #27 
           - did it, and I get this....  grumpy old fart   Apr-11-05 01:17 PM   #34 
              - It is dying on the first hops  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 02:21 PM   #51 
  - Dworkin never said it.  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 12:47 PM   #15 
     - Yes, I note with interest  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 12:50 PM   #17 
     - R.I.P.  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 12:54 PM   #18 
     - she wasn't "with" him in the traditional sense, that's for sure  amazona   Apr-11-05 02:38 PM   #55 
        - There are many other ways to do sex  eridani   Apr-12-05 11:56 PM   #190 
     - Quote  warrens   Apr-11-05 01:03 PM   #23 
     - Context  Kelvin Mace   Apr-11-05 01:16 PM   #32 
     - Here's some Dworkin Quotes:  mongo   Apr-11-05 02:03 PM   #47 
        - Back some of that up, please.  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 04:53 PM   #104 
        - Because what she's saying is that  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 05:21 PM   #108 
           - Where do you get that from anything she has said?  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 05:42 PM   #116 
           - Dworkin was a hatemonger  warrens   Apr-11-05 07:35 PM   #128 
        - "anti feminist backlash?" LOL.  jdj   Apr-14-05 04:23 AM   #200 
           - Lesbian written pornography ... is an expression of self hatred. - Andrea  mongo   Apr-14-05 01:39 PM   #201 
  - Andrea also enjoyed sex,  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 12:58 PM   #20 
  - Sigh. She never said that.  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 03:06 PM   #64 
  - I always that ...........  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-11-05 08:43 PM   #136 
     - So you're judging an author and a law professor  Senior citizen   Apr-12-05 03:58 AM   #154 
        - I am a woman  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-12-05 08:01 AM   #157 
           - Why should females make themselves attractive to  Senior citizen   Apr-12-05 04:14 PM   #182 
              - I can see that something's badly wrong here  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-12-05 05:46 PM   #183 
                 - There is hatred and anger, but not from me  Senior citizen   Apr-13-05 01:24 AM   #192 
                    - Like I said,  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-13-05 08:20 AM   #193 
  - Now, when all those MEN died last week  DulceDecorum   Apr-11-05 12:39 PM   #12 
  - Terri Schaivo was a man?!  RandomKoolzip   Apr-11-05 01:03 PM   #22 
  - On the dead scale  Inland   Apr-11-05 01:05 PM   #24 
  - Who the hell is George Keenon?  smirkymonkey   Apr-11-05 01:30 PM   #41 
  - Wasn't talking about REGRET  Inland   Apr-11-05 06:53 PM   #121 
     - I know you weren't, but I was.  smirkymonkey   Apr-11-05 08:46 PM   #137 
  - Who the hell are Ranier Grimaldi and  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 05:23 PM   #109 
     - It would probably help if I spelled the goddamn names right.  Inland   Apr-11-05 06:56 PM   #122 
  - RIP, but her views weren't admirable  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 01:05 PM   #25 
  - She ended being a tool for Ed Meese and Park Deitz.  RandomKoolzip   Apr-11-05 01:08 PM   #28 
  - Andrea NEVER supported censorship.  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 01:13 PM   #31 
     - What?  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 01:21 PM   #36 
     - If you'd like the other side of that argument read  mongo   Apr-11-05 02:12 PM   #49 
     - That's a good point  Modem Butterfly   Apr-11-05 03:21 PM   #71 
     - Being anti-porn isn't the same thing as supporting censorship  Eloriel   Apr-11-05 03:58 PM   #85 
     - Who gets to define what pornography is?  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 04:26 PM   #91 
     - Additionally: Other limitation on free speech are necessary because  mondo joe   Apr-11-05 04:49 PM   #101 
     - No, they wouldn't have  eridani   Apr-13-05 12:08 AM   #191 
     - You don't really support the First Amendment when you say "but...."  Democat   Apr-11-05 07:13 PM   #126 
        - I also support the First Amendment, but..  Ms. Toad   Apr-11-05 08:27 PM   #134 
     - Excellent points, and she also  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 05:26 PM   #110 
        - It's just mortifying when people turn out to be the same authoritarian  mondo joe   Apr-11-05 07:47 PM   #131 
           - Couldn't have said it better myself. n/t  Psephos   Apr-11-05 08:12 PM   #133 
     - When it comes to pornography I tend to be a free marketer  bluestateguy   Apr-12-05 10:46 AM   #165 
  - Sorry she is dead - Glad she is gone.  benburch   Apr-11-05 01:11 PM   #29 
  - Andrea was never a tool of the right.  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 01:28 PM   #40 
     - Not just pornography!  benburch   Apr-11-05 01:40 PM   #44 
  - While I had significant differences with Ms Dworkin  tishaLA   Apr-11-05 01:12 PM   #30 
  - I never cared for the woman and I DID read her books  Selteri   Apr-11-05 01:17 PM   #33 
  - I agree...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 01:25 PM   #39 
  - Please don't charactorize S&M videos as "violent"  mongo   Apr-11-05 02:41 PM   #56 
     - I understand your point  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 02:46 PM   #58 
     - actually, BDSM is about trust and surrender of control  BuddhaGirl   Apr-11-05 10:05 PM   #146 
     - Yeah, that is a better way to put it.... thanks.  mongo   Apr-12-05 11:59 AM   #173 
     - I agree fully  Selteri   Apr-11-05 10:13 PM   #147 
  - An excellent analysis.  Fenris   Apr-11-05 02:55 PM   #60 
  - And she definitely DID call sex  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 05:29 PM   #111 
  - she got a ridiculous anti-porn ordinance passed in Mpls.  MnFats   Apr-11-05 01:21 PM   #35 
  - You're probably right.  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 01:38 PM   #43 
     - So how is it "total equality"  mongo   Apr-11-05 02:23 PM   #52 
     - No class of people can be fully equal  Eloriel   Apr-11-05 04:15 PM   #89 
        - Many people that engage in alternate sexual practices...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 04:30 PM   #92 
        - Yes, Dworkin is incredibly patronizing.  mondo joe   Apr-11-05 04:59 PM   #106 
        - Wow, never disagreed w/you before.  Lilith Velkor   Apr-11-05 06:45 PM   #119 
        - Agreed! My entire pro-choice rationale is based on the  mondo joe   Apr-11-05 07:45 PM   #130 
        - I think their is a difference between posing  Kelvin Mace   Apr-12-05 12:10 PM   #176 
           - Everyone's got their comfort zones  Lilith Velkor   Apr-12-05 01:37 PM   #179 
              - Well, there I went into a bit of exagerration  Kelvin Mace   Apr-12-05 02:38 PM   #181 
                 - The only way most people put food on the table is selling their bodies  mondo joe   Apr-12-05 05:57 PM   #186 
                 - You assume much  Lilith Velkor   Apr-12-05 06:53 PM   #188 
                 - My comments on this thread have been about the US industry...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-13-05 10:08 AM   #194 
        - Free speech is free speech  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-11-05 08:53 PM   #138 
        - I think you nailed it here....  mongo   Apr-12-05 11:49 AM   #170 
        - Good point, and also I think it was Andrea Dworkin who  smirkymonkey   Apr-11-05 08:58 PM   #139 
        - You're painting too broad a brush  BuddhaGirl   Apr-11-05 10:30 PM   #148 
           - The reality Hartley speaks of is economic coercion.  Senior citizen   Apr-12-05 03:50 AM   #153 
              - You are applying gender bias to a gender-neutral problem...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-12-05 11:57 AM   #172 
     - ummmm. 'sarcasm' not necessary.  MnFats   Apr-11-05 02:25 PM   #53 
     - You've proven my point...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 02:54 PM   #59 
        - I'll give you this  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 03:18 PM   #69 
        - as i think i pointed out....  MnFats   Apr-11-05 03:25 PM   #73 
        - I was responding to someone else specifically  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 03:33 PM   #79 
           - Ok, things become clearer.  MnFats   Apr-11-05 03:41 PM   #81 
        - It's not about "hating porn"!  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 03:37 PM   #80 
        - You are flying by my point at light speed  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 03:48 PM   #82 
        - And you're missing my point as well...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 04:04 PM   #86 
           - She did not enable the right wing to demonize feminism  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 04:24 PM   #90 
              - This took a 2-second Google search  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 04:34 PM   #93 
                 - Okay. So where is her argument  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 04:37 PM   #95 
                 - Here is a link  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 04:41 PM   #98 
                    - Always Causing Legal Unrest...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 04:43 PM   #99 
                    - Give me examples of what you deem are reputable  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 04:47 PM   #100 
                       - Sorry...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 04:52 PM   #103 
                          - Here's another  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 04:57 PM   #105 
                             - I have to go...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 05:02 PM   #107 
                                - I am busy at work, and no PC at home...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-12-05 11:52 AM   #171 
                    - Here is another article debunking the "all sex is rape" myth  smirkymonkey   Apr-11-05 09:16 PM   #140 
        - Oops (edit)  Pithlet   Apr-12-05 06:25 PM   #187 
        - Exactly what good did she do?  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 05:33 PM   #113 
           - You really don't know?  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 06:46 PM   #120 
              - porn is already illegal  mongo   Apr-12-05 07:12 PM   #189 
        - ok. i surrender. i give.  MnFats   Apr-11-05 03:20 PM   #70 
           - I agree with you, MnFats...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 03:31 PM   #78 
     - I don't see what the ordinance has to do with "TOTAL equality"  mondo joe   Apr-11-05 03:27 PM   #75 
        - Everyone was equally restricted...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 03:51 PM   #83 
           - And without it wouldn't they still be equally FREE to produce  mondo joe   Apr-11-05 04:10 PM   #87 
  - Though I often disagreed with her views...  redqueen   Apr-11-05 01:21 PM   #37 
  - She was a uniquely original thinker.  Zan_of_Texas   Apr-11-05 01:45 PM   #45 
     - Agreed about Stoltenberg  alarcoeg   Apr-11-05 03:10 PM   #66 
  - Bah, this was bad; self-delete.  LoZoccolo   Apr-11-05 01:37 PM   #42 
  - RIP  Chovexani   Apr-11-05 02:09 PM   #48 
  - i hope she can now find peace  amazona   Apr-11-05 02:31 PM   #54 
  - so sad to see so many men still sacred of an intelligent woman  Nostradamus   Apr-11-05 02:43 PM   #57 
  - Yeah, to a certain extent I agree with that  MadHound   Apr-11-05 02:55 PM   #61 
  - You're right, I'm scared...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 02:58 PM   #63 
  - But she dissed the porn.  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 03:07 PM   #65 
  - we're dissing her...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 03:12 PM   #67 
     - Wuh?  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 03:13 PM   #68 
        - man-hating harpie?  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 03:27 PM   #74 
           - It's called sarcasm  Pithlet   Apr-11-05 03:28 PM   #76 
              - Nevermind  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-11-05 03:29 PM   #77 
  - And anti-free speech. eom  mondo joe   Apr-11-05 03:22 PM   #72 
  - No, I'm put off by ANYONE with a personal pathology that finds an...  mitchum   Apr-11-05 03:57 PM   #84 
  - You're right.  Voltaire99   Apr-11-05 04:40 PM   #97 
  - Yeah. And Hypatia was a slut.  Senior citizen   Apr-11-05 04:52 PM   #102 
     - i'm curious -- what would your sexual universe look like?  xchrom   Apr-11-05 05:43 PM   #117 
     - My sexual universe would have no rapes,  Senior citizen   Apr-12-05 03:31 AM   #152 
     - Nice broad brush you're wielding there  mitchum   Apr-11-05 08:08 PM   #132 
     - Grief does not excuse you from making...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-12-05 12:16 PM   #177 
  - ...anti-heterosexual  Lilith Velkor   Apr-11-05 07:27 PM   #127 
  - Bullshit  warrens   Apr-11-05 07:37 PM   #129 
  - Dworkin interview by British SF author Michael Moorcock  slappypan   Apr-11-05 04:36 PM   #94 
  - Although I opposed her ideas personally and professionally...  Voltaire99   Apr-11-05 04:37 PM   #96 
  - I extend a R.I.P.  bluestateguy   Apr-11-05 05:31 PM   #112 
  - No, actually you  liberalhistorian   Apr-11-05 05:37 PM   #114 
  - I'm afraid I agree..  sendero   Apr-11-05 05:38 PM   #115 
  - But isn't it like  bloom   Apr-11-05 06:42 PM   #118 
     - I have no idea what you are talking about  bluestateguy   Apr-11-05 09:22 PM   #141 
        - Ok...  bloom   Apr-11-05 09:46 PM   #143 
  - No word on whether she wielded a strap-on, but I take it she  Hardhead   Apr-11-05 07:03 PM   #125 
  - As far as I can tell, Dworkin was no more of a crackpot than  Cats Against Frist   Apr-11-05 10:03 PM   #145 
  - OK, you win  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-12-05 05:54 PM   #185 
  - Looks like a another thread in which people are debating about sex.....  nolabels   Apr-11-05 11:04 PM   #151 
  - I think we are debating politics  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-12-05 09:02 AM   #159 
     - Was pretty much just joking  nolabels   Apr-12-05 09:48 AM   #161 
        - LOL. Of course it does...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-12-05 10:02 AM   #163 
  - I am in mourning.  Senior citizen   Apr-12-05 04:39 AM   #156 
  - I'm sorry you are mourning...  youspeakmylanguage   Apr-12-05 08:25 AM   #158 
  - agree -- sorry about the grief, sorry about her terrible life  amazona   Apr-12-05 11:26 AM   #167 
     - Beautifully stated, beautifully thought-out,  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-12-05 12:18 PM   #178 
  - Democracy Now  bloom   Apr-12-05 11:17 AM   #166 
  - Andrea Dworkin lacked credentials  OldLeftieLawyer   Apr-12-05 05:52 PM   #184 
  - no tears here  ButterflyBlood   Apr-12-05 10:09 AM   #164 
  - Violation is a synonym for intercourse.  RedCloud   Apr-12-05 02:36 PM   #180 
  - Let us take a few moments...  Tandalayo_Scheisskopf   Apr-13-05 05:20 PM   #195 
  - Link to reality.  Senior citizen   Apr-13-05 11:44 PM   #196 
  - No tears here  JohnLocke   Apr-14-05 12:59 AM   #197 
  - I read Dworkin when I was younger.  frustrated_lefty   Apr-14-05 02:36 AM   #198 
  - Andrea Dworkin Lie Detector  JoFerret   Apr-16-05 09:54 AM   #202 
  - Andrea Dworkin wanted me in jail.  localroger   Apr-16-05 12:37 PM   #203 
 

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