|
This may be because intercourse itself is immune to reform. In it, female is bottom, stigmatized. Intercourse remains a means or the means of physiologically making a woman inferior: communicating to her cell by cell her own inferior status, impressing it on her, burning it into her by shoving it into her, over and over, pushing and thrusting until she gives up and gives in— which is called surrender in the male lexicon. In the experience of intercourse, she loses the capacity for integrity because her body—the basis of privacy and freedom in the material world for all human beings—is entered and occupied; the boundaries of her physical body are—neutrally speaking— violated. What is taken from her in that act is not recoverable, and she spends her life—wanting, after all, to have something—pretending that pleasure is in being reduced through intercourse to insignificance.
Dworkin
|
| -Andrea Dworkin Has Died |
Modem Butterfly |
Apr-11-05 12:25 PM |
#0 |
-
A real loss |
Book Lover |
Apr-11-05 12:27 PM |
#1 |
 -
Watch out it also causes beastiality according to some pubes |
MadisonProgressive |
Apr-12-05 12:07 PM |
#174 |
-
whew. Glad I only have gay porn. |
sui generis |
Apr-11-05 12:28 PM |
#2 |
 -
You naughty naughty boy you! |
meegbear |
Apr-11-05 12:29 PM |
#5 |
 -
gay porn.....lol |
bullimiami |
Apr-11-05 12:42 PM |
#13 |
-
"All sex is rape" |
UdoKier |
Apr-11-05 12:28 PM |
#3 |
 -
I'm not a big fan of Dworking |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 12:32 PM |
#8 |
  -
Al Franken's joke |
Jeff in Cincinnati |
Apr-11-05 01:59 PM |
#46 |
  -
OK, maybe she didn't actually say, "all sex is rape"... |
Montauk6 |
Apr-11-05 02:13 PM |
#50 |
   -
Is that Coleman Young in your avatar? N/T |
PassingFair |
Apr-11-05 06:58 PM |
#123 |
  -
Detroit's own! |
Montauk6 |
Apr-11-05 09:33 PM |
#142 |
  -
He was the mayor while I was growing up in Detroit. |
PassingFair |
Apr-11-05 10:59 PM |
#149 |
  -
"Penetrative intercourse is, by its nature, violent." |
neuvocat |
Apr-11-05 04:14 PM |
#88 |
   -
See, here we have to get into definitions of "violent" |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 07:02 PM |
#124 |
  -
Excellent Post. Thanks! |
smirkymonkey |
Apr-11-05 08:41 PM |
#135 |
  -
Then ANY act of intimacy, committed by male or female, is a "violent" act |
Montauk6 |
Apr-11-05 09:56 PM |
#144 |
   -
You are ignoring context |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-12-05 09:21 AM |
#160 |
  -
Then,I can just as well say you're only focusing on ONE context |
Montauk6 |
Apr-12-05 09:56 AM |
#162 |
  -
Dworkin specifically set out her context |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-12-05 11:39 AM |
#168 |
  -
You are the Best! |
FizzFuzz |
Apr-11-05 11:03 PM |
#150 |
   -
Dworkin testified before the Meese commission |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-12-05 11:42 AM |
#169 |
  -
I am so sad. Dworkin was a genuis and a prolific writer. |
jdj |
Apr-14-05 04:14 AM |
#199 |
  -
So what positions does she condone? |
MadisonProgressive |
Apr-12-05 12:09 PM |
#175 |
 -
yes - i didnt like her calling me a rapist. |
RPM |
Apr-11-05 02:57 PM |
#62 |
 -
To Bad she isn't here to enlighten us on |
saigon68 |
Apr-12-05 04:06 AM |
#155 |
-
Awwww |
warrens |
Apr-11-05 12:29 PM |
#4 |
-
Boy is she crazy |
sasquatch |
Apr-11-05 12:30 PM |
#6 |
 -
Again, I disagree strongly with some of Dworkins views |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 12:38 PM |
#11 |
 -
You have a point, if much understated. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 12:59 PM |
#21 |
-
Well stated. |
smirkymonkey |
Apr-11-05 01:25 PM |
#38 |
-
She lost me totally when she asserted that |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 12:31 PM |
#7 |
 -
Please see my post above |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 12:33 PM |
#9 |
  -
I'm sorry, but I saw her on a major talk |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 12:37 PM |
#10 |
   -
Geez, I hate to tell you this, |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 01:06 PM |
#26 |
  -
hmmm, how come "thoughtcrimes.org" doesn't work..eom |
grumpy old fart |
Apr-11-05 12:45 PM |
#14 |
   -
Might be a router problem with your ISP |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 12:49 PM |
#16 |
  -
hmm, that's odd. I have a dsl line and using firefox browser.... |
grumpy old fart |
Apr-11-05 12:57 PM |
#19 |
  -
If there is a problem with |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 01:08 PM |
#27 |
  -
did it, and I get this.... |
grumpy old fart |
Apr-11-05 01:17 PM |
#34 |
  -
It is dying on the first hops |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 02:21 PM |
#51 |
  -
Dworkin never said it. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 12:47 PM |
#15 |
 -
Yes, I note with interest |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 12:50 PM |
#17 |
  -
R.I.P. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 12:54 PM |
#18 |
  -
she wasn't "with" him in the traditional sense, that's for sure |
amazona |
Apr-11-05 02:38 PM |
#55 |
 -
There are many other ways to do sex |
eridani |
Apr-12-05 11:56 PM |
#190 |
 -
Quote |
warrens |
Apr-11-05 01:03 PM |
#23 |
  -
Context |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-11-05 01:16 PM |
#32 |
 -
Here's some Dworkin Quotes: |
mongo |
Apr-11-05 02:03 PM |
#47 |
 -
Back some of that up, please. |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 04:53 PM |
#104 |
  -
Because what she's saying is that |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 05:21 PM |
#108 |
 -
Where do you get that from anything she has said? |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 05:42 PM |
#116 |
 -
Dworkin was a hatemonger |
warrens |
Apr-11-05 07:35 PM |
#128 |
 -
"anti feminist backlash?" LOL. |
jdj |
Apr-14-05 04:23 AM |
#200 |
 -
Lesbian written pornography ... is an expression of self hatred. - Andrea |
mongo |
Apr-14-05 01:39 PM |
#201 |
 -
Andrea also enjoyed sex, |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 12:58 PM |
#20 |
 -
Sigh. She never said that. |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 03:06 PM |
#64 |
 -
I always that ........... |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-11-05 08:43 PM |
#136 |
-
So you're judging an author and a law professor |
Senior citizen |
Apr-12-05 03:58 AM |
#154 |
-
I am a woman |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-12-05 08:01 AM |
#157 |
-
Why should females make themselves attractive to |
Senior citizen |
Apr-12-05 04:14 PM |
#182 |
-
I can see that something's badly wrong here |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-12-05 05:46 PM |
#183 |
-
There is hatred and anger, but not from me |
Senior citizen |
Apr-13-05 01:24 AM |
#192 |
-
Like I said, |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-13-05 08:20 AM |
#193 |
-
Now, when all those MEN died last week |
DulceDecorum |
Apr-11-05 12:39 PM |
#12 |
 -
Terri Schaivo was a man?! |
RandomKoolzip |
Apr-11-05 01:03 PM |
#22 |
-
On the dead scale |
Inland |
Apr-11-05 01:05 PM |
#24 |
 -
Who the hell is George Keenon? |
smirkymonkey |
Apr-11-05 01:30 PM |
#41 |
  -
Wasn't talking about REGRET |
Inland |
Apr-11-05 06:53 PM |
#121 |
 -
I know you weren't, but I was. |
smirkymonkey |
Apr-11-05 08:46 PM |
#137 |
 -
Who the hell are Ranier Grimaldi and |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 05:23 PM |
#109 |
-
It would probably help if I spelled the goddamn names right. |
Inland |
Apr-11-05 06:56 PM |
#122 |
-
RIP, but her views weren't admirable |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 01:05 PM |
#25 |
 -
She ended being a tool for Ed Meese and Park Deitz. |
RandomKoolzip |
Apr-11-05 01:08 PM |
#28 |
 -
Andrea NEVER supported censorship. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 01:13 PM |
#31 |
-
What? |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 01:21 PM |
#36 |
-
If you'd like the other side of that argument read |
mongo |
Apr-11-05 02:12 PM |
#49 |
 -
That's a good point |
Modem Butterfly |
Apr-11-05 03:21 PM |
#71 |
 -
Being anti-porn isn't the same thing as supporting censorship |
Eloriel |
Apr-11-05 03:58 PM |
#85 |
  -
Who gets to define what pornography is? |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 04:26 PM |
#91 |
   -
Additionally: Other limitation on free speech are necessary because |
mondo joe |
Apr-11-05 04:49 PM |
#101 |
   -
No, they wouldn't have |
eridani |
Apr-13-05 12:08 AM |
#191 |
  -
You don't really support the First Amendment when you say "but...." |
Democat |
Apr-11-05 07:13 PM |
#126 |
 -
I also support the First Amendment, but.. |
Ms. Toad |
Apr-11-05 08:27 PM |
#134 |
 -
Excellent points, and she also |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 05:26 PM |
#110 |
-
It's just mortifying when people turn out to be the same authoritarian |
mondo joe |
Apr-11-05 07:47 PM |
#131 |
-
Couldn't have said it better myself. n/t |
Psephos |
Apr-11-05 08:12 PM |
#133 |
-
When it comes to pornography I tend to be a free marketer |
bluestateguy |
Apr-12-05 10:46 AM |
#165 |
-
Sorry she is dead - Glad she is gone. |
benburch |
Apr-11-05 01:11 PM |
#29 |
 -
Andrea was never a tool of the right. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 01:28 PM |
#40 |
-
Not just pornography! |
benburch |
Apr-11-05 01:40 PM |
#44 |
-
While I had significant differences with Ms Dworkin |
tishaLA |
Apr-11-05 01:12 PM |
#30 |
-
I never cared for the woman and I DID read her books |
Selteri |
Apr-11-05 01:17 PM |
#33 |
 -
I agree... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 01:25 PM |
#39 |
  -
Please don't charactorize S&M videos as "violent" |
mongo |
Apr-11-05 02:41 PM |
#56 |
 -
I understand your point |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 02:46 PM |
#58 |
 -
actually, BDSM is about trust and surrender of control |
BuddhaGirl |
Apr-11-05 10:05 PM |
#146 |
  -
Yeah, that is a better way to put it.... thanks. |
mongo |
Apr-12-05 11:59 AM |
#173 |
 -
I agree fully |
Selteri |
Apr-11-05 10:13 PM |
#147 |
 -
An excellent analysis. |
Fenris |
Apr-11-05 02:55 PM |
#60 |
 -
And she definitely DID call sex |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 05:29 PM |
#111 |
-
she got a ridiculous anti-porn ordinance passed in Mpls. |
MnFats |
Apr-11-05 01:21 PM |
#35 |
 -
You're probably right. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 01:38 PM |
#43 |
-
So how is it "total equality" |
mongo |
Apr-11-05 02:23 PM |
#52 |
 -
No class of people can be fully equal |
Eloriel |
Apr-11-05 04:15 PM |
#89 |
-
Many people that engage in alternate sexual practices... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 04:30 PM |
#92 |
-
Yes, Dworkin is incredibly patronizing. |
mondo joe |
Apr-11-05 04:59 PM |
#106 |
-
Wow, never disagreed w/you before. |
Lilith Velkor |
Apr-11-05 06:45 PM |
#119 |
 -
Agreed! My entire pro-choice rationale is based on the |
mondo joe |
Apr-11-05 07:45 PM |
#130 |
 -
I think their is a difference between posing |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-12-05 12:10 PM |
#176 |
-
Everyone's got their comfort zones |
Lilith Velkor |
Apr-12-05 01:37 PM |
#179 |
-
Well, there I went into a bit of exagerration |
Kelvin Mace |
Apr-12-05 02:38 PM |
#181 |
-
The only way most people put food on the table is selling their bodies |
mondo joe |
Apr-12-05 05:57 PM |
#186 |
-
You assume much |
Lilith Velkor |
Apr-12-05 06:53 PM |
#188 |
-
My comments on this thread have been about the US industry... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-13-05 10:08 AM |
#194 |
-
Free speech is free speech |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-11-05 08:53 PM |
#138 |
 -
I think you nailed it here.... |
mongo |
Apr-12-05 11:49 AM |
#170 |
-
Good point, and also I think it was Andrea Dworkin who |
smirkymonkey |
Apr-11-05 08:58 PM |
#139 |
-
You're painting too broad a brush |
BuddhaGirl |
Apr-11-05 10:30 PM |
#148 |
-
The reality Hartley speaks of is economic coercion. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-12-05 03:50 AM |
#153 |
-
You are applying gender bias to a gender-neutral problem... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-12-05 11:57 AM |
#172 |
-
ummmm. 'sarcasm' not necessary. |
MnFats |
Apr-11-05 02:25 PM |
#53 |
 -
You've proven my point... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 02:54 PM |
#59 |
-
I'll give you this |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 03:18 PM |
#69 |
 -
as i think i pointed out.... |
MnFats |
Apr-11-05 03:25 PM |
#73 |
  -
I was responding to someone else specifically |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 03:33 PM |
#79 |
 -
Ok, things become clearer. |
MnFats |
Apr-11-05 03:41 PM |
#81 |
 -
It's not about "hating porn"! |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 03:37 PM |
#80 |
  -
You are flying by my point at light speed |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 03:48 PM |
#82 |
   -
And you're missing my point as well... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 04:04 PM |
#86 |
  -
She did not enable the right wing to demonize feminism |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 04:24 PM |
#90 |
  -
This took a 2-second Google search |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 04:34 PM |
#93 |
  -
Okay. So where is her argument |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 04:37 PM |
#95 |
  -
Here is a link |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 04:41 PM |
#98 |
  -
Always Causing Legal Unrest... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 04:43 PM |
#99 |
   -
Give me examples of what you deem are reputable |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 04:47 PM |
#100 |
  -
Sorry... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 04:52 PM |
#103 |
  -
Here's another |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 04:57 PM |
#105 |
  -
I have to go... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 05:02 PM |
#107 |
  -
I am busy at work, and no PC at home... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-12-05 11:52 AM |
#171 |
  -
Here is another article debunking the "all sex is rape" myth |
smirkymonkey |
Apr-11-05 09:16 PM |
#140 |
  -
Oops (edit) |
Pithlet |
Apr-12-05 06:25 PM |
#187 |
 -
Exactly what good did she do? |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 05:33 PM |
#113 |
-
You really don't know? |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 06:46 PM |
#120 |
-
porn is already illegal |
mongo |
Apr-12-05 07:12 PM |
#189 |
-
ok. i surrender. i give. |
MnFats |
Apr-11-05 03:20 PM |
#70 |
-
I agree with you, MnFats... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 03:31 PM |
#78 |
-
I don't see what the ordinance has to do with "TOTAL equality" |
mondo joe |
Apr-11-05 03:27 PM |
#75 |
-
Everyone was equally restricted... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 03:51 PM |
#83 |
-
And without it wouldn't they still be equally FREE to produce |
mondo joe |
Apr-11-05 04:10 PM |
#87 |
-
Though I often disagreed with her views... |
redqueen |
Apr-11-05 01:21 PM |
#37 |
 -
She was a uniquely original thinker. |
Zan_of_Texas |
Apr-11-05 01:45 PM |
#45 |
-
Agreed about Stoltenberg |
alarcoeg |
Apr-11-05 03:10 PM |
#66 |
-
Bah, this was bad; self-delete. |
LoZoccolo |
Apr-11-05 01:37 PM |
#42 |
-
RIP |
Chovexani |
Apr-11-05 02:09 PM |
#48 |
-
i hope she can now find peace |
amazona |
Apr-11-05 02:31 PM |
#54 |
-
so sad to see so many men still sacred of an intelligent woman |
Nostradamus |
Apr-11-05 02:43 PM |
#57 |
 -
Yeah, to a certain extent I agree with that |
MadHound |
Apr-11-05 02:55 PM |
#61 |
 -
You're right, I'm scared... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 02:58 PM |
#63 |
 -
But she dissed the porn. |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 03:07 PM |
#65 |
  -
we're dissing her... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 03:12 PM |
#67 |
 -
Wuh? |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 03:13 PM |
#68 |
 -
man-hating harpie? |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 03:27 PM |
#74 |
 -
It's called sarcasm |
Pithlet |
Apr-11-05 03:28 PM |
#76 |
 -
Nevermind |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-11-05 03:29 PM |
#77 |
 -
And anti-free speech. eom |
mondo joe |
Apr-11-05 03:22 PM |
#72 |
 -
No, I'm put off by ANYONE with a personal pathology that finds an... |
mitchum |
Apr-11-05 03:57 PM |
#84 |
  -
You're right. |
Voltaire99 |
Apr-11-05 04:40 PM |
#97 |
  -
Yeah. And Hypatia was a slut. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-11-05 04:52 PM |
#102 |
 -
i'm curious -- what would your sexual universe look like? |
xchrom |
Apr-11-05 05:43 PM |
#117 |
  -
My sexual universe would have no rapes, |
Senior citizen |
Apr-12-05 03:31 AM |
#152 |
 -
Nice broad brush you're wielding there |
mitchum |
Apr-11-05 08:08 PM |
#132 |
 -
Grief does not excuse you from making... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-12-05 12:16 PM |
#177 |
 -
...anti-heterosexual |
Lilith Velkor |
Apr-11-05 07:27 PM |
#127 |
 -
Bullshit |
warrens |
Apr-11-05 07:37 PM |
#129 |
-
Dworkin interview by British SF author Michael Moorcock |
slappypan |
Apr-11-05 04:36 PM |
#94 |
-
Although I opposed her ideas personally and professionally... |
Voltaire99 |
Apr-11-05 04:37 PM |
#96 |
-
I extend a R.I.P. |
bluestateguy |
Apr-11-05 05:31 PM |
#112 |
 -
No, actually you |
liberalhistorian |
Apr-11-05 05:37 PM |
#114 |
 -
I'm afraid I agree.. |
sendero |
Apr-11-05 05:38 PM |
#115 |
 -
But isn't it like |
bloom |
Apr-11-05 06:42 PM |
#118 |
-
I have no idea what you are talking about |
bluestateguy |
Apr-11-05 09:22 PM |
#141 |
-
Ok... |
bloom |
Apr-11-05 09:46 PM |
#143 |
-
No word on whether she wielded a strap-on, but I take it she |
Hardhead |
Apr-11-05 07:03 PM |
#125 |
-
As far as I can tell, Dworkin was no more of a crackpot than |
Cats Against Frist |
Apr-11-05 10:03 PM |
#145 |
 -
OK, you win |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-12-05 05:54 PM |
#185 |
-
Looks like a another thread in which people are debating about sex..... |
nolabels |
Apr-11-05 11:04 PM |
#151 |
 -
I think we are debating politics |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-12-05 09:02 AM |
#159 |
-
Was pretty much just joking |
nolabels |
Apr-12-05 09:48 AM |
#161 |
-
LOL. Of course it does... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-12-05 10:02 AM |
#163 |
-
I am in mourning. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-12-05 04:39 AM |
#156 |
 -
I'm sorry you are mourning... |
youspeakmylanguage |
Apr-12-05 08:25 AM |
#158 |
  -
agree -- sorry about the grief, sorry about her terrible life |
amazona |
Apr-12-05 11:26 AM |
#167 |
 -
Beautifully stated, beautifully thought-out, |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-12-05 12:18 PM |
#178 |
 -
Democracy Now |
bloom |
Apr-12-05 11:17 AM |
#166 |
 -
Andrea Dworkin lacked credentials |
OldLeftieLawyer |
Apr-12-05 05:52 PM |
#184 |
-
no tears here |
ButterflyBlood |
Apr-12-05 10:09 AM |
#164 |
-
Violation is a synonym for intercourse. |
RedCloud |
Apr-12-05 02:36 PM |
#180 |
-
Let us take a few moments... |
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf |
Apr-13-05 05:20 PM |
#195 |
-
Link to reality. |
Senior citizen |
Apr-13-05 11:44 PM |
#196 |
-
No tears here |
JohnLocke |
Apr-14-05 12:59 AM |
#197 |
-
I read Dworkin when I was younger. |
frustrated_lefty |
Apr-14-05 02:36 AM |
#198 |
-
Andrea Dworkin Lie Detector |
JoFerret |
Apr-16-05 09:54 AM |
#202 |
-
Andrea Dworkin wanted me in jail. |
localroger |
Apr-16-05 12:37 PM |
#203 |