DeepModem Mom
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Sun Jan-23-05 02:05 AM
Original message |
| WP,pg1: Bible Breaks at Public Schools Face Challenges in Rural Virginia |
|
Bible Breaks at Public Schools Face Challenges in Rural Virginia By Carol Morello Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, January 23, 2005; Page A01 ....For 65 years, weekday Bible classes have been part of the fabric of growing up in this town of 24,000 in Augusta County and in a score of other small towns and hamlets in rural Virginia. It is such an accepted tradition that 80 to 85 percent of the first-, second- and third-graders in Staunton participate (in a nearby church). But now, the practice is being challenged by a group of parents who have asked the School Board to end or modify weekday religious education. Not only do they fear that their children are stigmatized for not attending, but in a decidedly 21st-century twist, they also argue that interrupting class for Bible study hinders efforts to meet state and national standards for test scores.... *** Bible classes in public schools were once common across the nation. The first proponents in the early years of the last century were liberal Protestant reformers who believed Christianity would mitigate the evils of segregation and war, according to Jonathan Zimmerman, author of "Whose America? Culture Wars in the Public Schools."... *** For decades, the lessons were conducted inside public school classrooms. But in its 1948 decision McCollum v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court ruled that the lessons violated the principle of separation of church and state. Amid criticism that it was atheistic, the court returned to the issue four years later in Zorach v. Clauson. That decision approved classes held away from school premises, ruling that the practice might be unwise from an educational viewpoint but that to prevent it would be hostile to religious freedom.... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29266-20...
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| -WP,pg1: Bible Breaks at Public Schools Face Challenges in Rural Virginia |
DeepModem Mom |
Jan-23-05 02:05 AM |
#0 |
-
Why can't they just do it after school? |
Cats Against Frist |
Jan-23-05 09:03 AM |
#1 |
 -
In a rural area, kids may have to ride school buses to and from |
DemBones DemBones |
Jan-23-05 01:02 PM |
#41 |
-
Okay then, why don't they just do this bible study |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:00 PM |
#70 |
 -
Umm...what's this have to do with West Virginia? n/t |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 04:58 PM |
#119 |
 -
They do. |
igil |
Jan-23-05 06:50 PM |
#151 |
 -
West Virginia |
wallybarron |
Jan-23-05 07:08 PM |
#157 |
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In the early 50s, when I was in elementary school in California (Glendale) |
TahitiNut |
Jan-23-05 03:55 PM |
#101 |
 -
Wow. Everone needs to read this post. (especially the small print). |
jdj |
Jan-25-05 07:28 AM |
#196 |
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The Roman Catholic Church's ecumenism of the 60's changed some. |
TahitiNut |
Jan-25-05 07:47 AM |
#201 |
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Everyone attended the same churches??? |
sandnsea |
Jan-25-05 05:25 AM |
#190 |
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no way |
jdj |
Jan-25-05 07:34 AM |
#198 |
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Mind boggling |
LizW |
Jan-23-05 09:22 AM |
#2 |
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School resources? |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 10:29 AM |
#4 |
  -
because Jews are allowed to play football |
Magic Rat |
Jan-23-05 10:31 AM |
#6 |
   -
You can participate here too |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 10:44 AM |
#9 |
    -
Bullshit |
MountainLaurel |
Jan-23-05 01:47 PM |
#52 |
    -
"interrupting class for Bible study " |
RetroLounge |
Jan-23-05 03:11 PM |
#79 |
   -
Then you think the schools should prohibit the kids from leaving? |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:22 PM |
#83 |
   -
Jews are allowed to read the Bible, too, at least the Old Testament, |
DemBones DemBones |
Jan-23-05 01:06 PM |
#43 |
  -
Actually, we don't call it the Old Testament |
Danmel |
Jan-23-05 04:40 PM |
#116 |
  -
Contrary to popular opinion, there are people who choose to think |
Tom Yossarian Joad |
Jan-23-05 10:47 AM |
#11 |
   -
There is no Koolaid required here |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 10:51 AM |
#12 |
  -
I'm sure it does "sound ideal" to you and your ilk. |
Tom Yossarian Joad |
Jan-23-05 11:47 AM |
#27 |
  -
Wow, I have an ilk now |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 11:56 AM |
#31 |
  -
Let me quote you then on a thread in which the topic of |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 12:48 PM |
#38 |
  -
If you consider so many here to be "pathetic," why do you persist |
Tom Yossarian Joad |
Jan-23-05 01:07 PM |
#44 |
  -
I considering objecting to this pathetic |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 02:54 PM |
#67 |
  -
Isn't It Obvious? |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 09:11 PM |
#166 |
  -
Female Frodo.... |
silvermachine |
Jan-24-05 02:04 PM |
#184 |
  -
because wasting time in the middle of the day |
ldf |
Jan-23-05 12:13 PM |
#34 |
  -
"Bible classes in public schools were once common across the nation." |
0007 |
Jan-23-05 02:15 PM |
#61 |
   -
Propaganda by who? The Post? |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:01 PM |
#71 |
  -
Read the article and figure it out for yourself. |
0007 |
Jan-23-05 05:39 PM |
#133 |
  -
So having a wiccan class |
purji |
Jan-23-05 02:17 PM |
#62 |
   -
If those classes were off of school grounds |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 02:37 PM |
#66 |
  -
legal is one thing |
ldf |
Jan-23-05 05:19 PM |
#126 |
  -
They must not have any |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:03 PM |
#73 |
   -
Did I miss something? Why West Virginia?! n/t |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 05:04 PM |
#120 |
    -
I grew up in rural Virginia, and I don't remember anything like this. |
jdj |
Jan-25-05 07:42 AM |
#200 |
   -
Virginia and West Virginia |
wallybarron |
Jan-23-05 07:15 PM |
#160 |
  -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-23-05 03:10 PM |
#76 |
   -
Debate and other things like band do practice in the day |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 03:29 PM |
#88 |
   -
Yes and Yes |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:30 PM |
#90 |
  -
Are you aware that civil rights are not absolute? |
PA Democrat |
Jan-25-05 07:05 AM |
#192 |
  -
Such Simple And Rational Distinctions Escape Many Here... |
arwalden |
Jan-25-05 07:38 AM |
#199 |
  -
That stuff is AFTER school |
sandnsea |
Jan-25-05 05:29 AM |
#191 |
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it's something we are coming out of, not going into. |
jdj |
Jan-25-05 07:32 AM |
#197 |
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Bernie Ward is discussing this right now on his radio show |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 09:38 AM |
#3 |
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The children are not forced to go |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 10:29 AM |
#5 |
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10-20% do not |
Magic Rat |
Jan-23-05 10:32 AM |
#7 |
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Everyone is different |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 10:44 AM |
#10 |
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If 10-20% don't participate, there are a quite a few kids to |
DemBones DemBones |
Jan-23-05 01:38 PM |
#48 |
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Not necessarily |
shrike |
Jan-23-05 03:48 PM |
#97 |
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Not officially. (nt) |
w4rma |
Jan-23-05 11:00 AM |
#13 |
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What do the kids who don't go do in class while it's going on? |
kgfnally |
Jan-23-05 11:05 AM |
#14 |
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They are given coloring and meaningless busy work. |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 11:12 AM |
#17 |
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And do you honestly believe that those children who do not attend |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 11:09 AM |
#15 |
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People who don't attend church probably are ostracized |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 11:24 AM |
#19 |
  -
Have the classes AFTER school hours |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 11:40 AM |
#25 |
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No |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 11:49 AM |
#28 |
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Apples and oranges |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 12:10 PM |
#33 |
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more |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 01:13 PM |
#45 |
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You said: |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 01:57 PM |
#54 |
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Yes, I would. |
fedupwithbush |
Jan-23-05 03:02 PM |
#72 |
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yes. |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 05:57 PM |
#136 |
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Central PA--my son did not attend "bible release" time during school day |
kittykitty |
Jan-23-05 12:29 PM |
#36 |
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Atlanta public schools have been working on a plan to allow Muslim |
DemBones DemBones |
Jan-23-05 01:43 PM |
#50 |
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If teaching is suspended while the kids are away |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 02:10 PM |
#58 |
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If 85% of the class left |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 02:28 PM |
#64 |
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Doesn't matter. This is an institutional endorsement of Christianity. |
BullGooseLoony |
Jan-23-05 11:52 AM |
#29 |
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Yours is the |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:17 PM |
#81 |
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I must have taken a stupid pill today ... somehow I thought that |
sunnystarr |
Jan-23-05 02:15 PM |
#60 |
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And what do the kids do who choose not to go |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:11 PM |
#78 |
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If the schools prohibited these kids from going to the Bible classes |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:17 PM |
#82 |
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So how does abiding by religious traditions |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:48 PM |
#96 |
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It may or may not |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:52 PM |
#100 |
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What other extra curricular activities |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:59 PM |
#104 |
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as I mentioned in other posts |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 04:02 PM |
#106 |
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They don't do that here |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 04:08 PM |
#109 |
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Since the article is about Virginia |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 05:13 PM |
#123 |
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as you pointed out, another poser mentioned WV |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 05:18 PM |
#124 |
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Thank you! n/t |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 05:20 PM |
#127 |
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Thank you |
wallybarron |
Jan-23-05 07:21 PM |
#162 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-23-05 03:14 PM |
#80 |
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Not forced; merely coerced. |
kimchi |
Jan-24-05 12:26 PM |
#180 |
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Sure it's changed |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-25-05 03:12 AM |
#188 |
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I'm OK with it, if they'll teach the kids that Jesus was a person of color |
Straight Shooter |
Jan-23-05 10:35 AM |
#8 |
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good point. |
jdj |
Jan-25-05 07:24 AM |
#194 |
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No problem with this |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 11:09 AM |
#16 |
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There is a fundamental difference in the situation |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 11:17 AM |
#18 |
  -
Ding ding ding! PA Democrat, you're our grand prize winner! |
rocknation |
Jan-23-05 11:28 AM |
#21 |
  -
You're upset b/c they don't continue teaching |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 11:33 AM |
#23 |
   -
This is done DURING the school day |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 11:53 AM |
#30 |
  -
Perhaps the pro-indoctrination crowd would like to answer one simple |
Cats Against Frist |
Jan-23-05 03:08 PM |
#74 |
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It isn't being taught in school |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 03:09 PM |
#75 |
  -
horse hockey. |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 05:41 PM |
#134 |
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I believe the local school board decides that |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 06:14 PM |
#143 |
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is the school day extended to cover the lost time? |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 06:24 PM |
#147 |
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It Involves School Time And Salaries... |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 06:34 PM |
#149 |
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um, read the article |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:10 PM |
#77 |
  -
Picky, Picky |
Cats Against Frist |
Jan-23-05 05:22 PM |
#128 |
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It doesn't "need" to be taught |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 06:30 PM |
#148 |
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Reading the bible, praying and wearing headscarves |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 09:19 PM |
#168 |
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It's The Tyranny Of The Christian Majority... |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 06:47 PM |
#150 |
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I am one of those Christians that you speak of that |
maddezmom |
Jan-23-05 06:53 PM |
#152 |
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There! You See? |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 07:14 PM |
#159 |
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Had you bothered to read the posts |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 07:20 PM |
#161 |
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Oh Brother! --- Uh... Did I Say YOU? |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 07:50 PM |
#163 |
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well, well, well. |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 08:01 PM |
#164 |
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Heh heh heh... |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 08:40 PM |
#165 |
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the school day is for school..........not shoving religion into kids... |
msongs |
Jan-23-05 11:45 AM |
#26 |
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It's a little more than that |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 01:03 PM |
#42 |
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So actual education is put on hold |
Solly Mack |
Jan-23-05 11:27 AM |
#20 |
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If Kids Could Choose Between Taking An Actual Elective Or Religion |
cryingshame |
Jan-23-05 11:32 AM |
#22 |
  -
I agree....But they aren't getting a choice |
Solly Mack |
Jan-23-05 11:38 AM |
#24 |
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Allowing children time to color freely is a great art program and very |
DemBones DemBones |
Jan-23-05 01:59 PM |
#55 |
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It's not the same as an instructional class |
Solly Mack |
Jan-23-05 02:05 PM |
#57 |
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You are obviously not a school administrator |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:23 PM |
#84 |
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this just another attempt to go around the law |
klyon |
Jan-23-05 12:09 PM |
#32 |
 -
This is the same as going to any extracurricular activity |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 12:26 PM |
#35 |
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please |
klyon |
Jan-23-05 12:50 PM |
#39 |
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This is in a church |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 02:57 PM |
#68 |
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I'm amazed at your posts. |
fedupwithbush |
Jan-23-05 01:02 PM |
#40 |
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Open it to any who want to go |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 03:00 PM |
#69 |
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I don't mean to be cruel, but are you really that dense? |
fedupwithbush |
Jan-23-05 04:17 PM |
#113 |
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Some of the students? |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 06:10 PM |
#138 |
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Just one, you and Charlie Brown |
0007 |
Jan-23-05 10:50 PM |
#171 |
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You continue to ignore the fact |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:24 PM |
#85 |
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No, it means not a class |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 03:30 PM |
#89 |
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Not where I teach |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:46 PM |
#95 |
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This is outside the class and, since it's approved, outside the school day |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 04:10 PM |
#110 |
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So as long as its removed from the space and time |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 05:18 PM |
#125 |
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except that classes are interrupted for it |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 05:48 PM |
#135 |
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Classes are interrupted for lunch |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Jan-23-05 06:11 PM |
#139 |
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yes, because food is sort of mandatory. |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 06:14 PM |
#142 |
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The Number Of People Here Who Support And Spout The RW Line... |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 12:35 PM |
#37 |
 -
Okay, I'll bite |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 01:20 PM |
#46 |
  -
But they shouldn't cease school time |
Solly Mack |
Jan-23-05 01:31 PM |
#47 |
   -
with 85% of the class gone? |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 01:39 PM |
#49 |
    -
Then they need to change their habits |
Solly Mack |
Jan-23-05 01:45 PM |
#51 |
   -
Sure, they could do that |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 01:55 PM |
#53 |
   -
Well, I can fault them. I taught Headstart |
Solly Mack |
Jan-23-05 02:01 PM |
#56 |
   -
2nd and 3rd graders do not find music and art boring |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:31 PM |
#91 |
   -
If you want to run for the Staunton, VA school board |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:37 PM |
#92 |
   -
No it is not |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:57 PM |
#102 |
   -
legally, it is |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 04:00 PM |
#105 |
   -
Are you an attorney or a teacher? |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 04:07 PM |
#108 |
   -
I am taking education courses |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 04:15 PM |
#112 |
   -
I don't teach in VA |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 04:37 PM |
#115 |
   -
So, |
Torque67 |
Jan-25-05 01:58 PM |
#204 |
   -
It seems to me that you want the kids who stay at school to be |
DemBones DemBones |
Jan-23-05 02:10 PM |
#59 |
  -
OH BULLSHIT. I never once said anything of the sort |
Solly Mack |
Jan-23-05 02:17 PM |
#63 |
  -
One way it could be illegal |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:28 PM |
#87 |
   -
That's a good point |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:41 PM |
#94 |
  -
Well I am not a constitutional attorney |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 03:50 PM |
#99 |
  -
Just because you or others are not happy with something |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 03:57 PM |
#103 |
  -
It's not about being happy or unhappy with this |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 04:04 PM |
#107 |
  -
These classes ARE NOT ON school property |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 04:11 PM |
#111 |
  -
No you are wrong |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 04:35 PM |
#114 |
   -
You'd have to prove that this is a "school sponsored activity" |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 04:42 PM |
#117 |
  -
How many times do we have to tell you |
proud2Blib |
Jan-23-05 05:24 PM |
#129 |
  -
Then it has to be EQUAL! |
kimchi |
Jan-24-05 12:46 PM |
#181 |
  -
Hey Charlie? |
fedupwithbush |
Jan-23-05 04:55 PM |
#118 |
 -
fair enough |
Charlie Brown |
Jan-23-05 05:09 PM |
#121 |
 -
I think it is. |
fedupwithbush |
Jan-23-05 05:32 PM |
#132 |
 -
I have to agree...it is stunning |
bleedingheart |
Jan-24-05 01:12 PM |
#182 |
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the real problem is that Virginia schools are FAILING schools... |
diamond14 |
Jan-23-05 02:30 PM |
#65 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-23-05 03:25 PM |
#86 |
 -
sigh ... |
shrike |
Jan-23-05 03:50 PM |
#98 |
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Au Contraire... |
arwalden |
Jan-23-05 06:55 PM |
#153 |
-
Stories like this make me so glad I live in the Northeast. |
Cobalt Violet |
Jan-23-05 03:40 PM |
#93 |
-
Here's a mind-boggling idea !!! |
SoCalDem |
Jan-23-05 05:10 PM |
#122 |
 -
So elegant, so simple and yet so difficult to understand |
Cats Against Frist |
Jan-23-05 05:25 PM |
#130 |
 -
Its called religion on the cheap. |
hickman1937 |
Jan-23-05 05:25 PM |
#131 |
  -
now, I could almost go for that. |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 06:11 PM |
#140 |
 -
I don't understand. Why are the kids |
hickman1937 |
Jan-25-05 03:05 AM |
#187 |
 -
I wasn't being entirely serious about the name |
ulysses |
Jan-25-05 05:19 AM |
#189 |
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Sounds good to me |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 06:05 PM |
#137 |
 -
Mind-boggling indeed. |
LWolf |
Jan-23-05 06:12 PM |
#141 |
-
If I am Rastafarian, can I smoke "lamb's bread" (pot) at this class? |
FlemingsGhost |
Jan-23-05 06:15 PM |
#144 |
 -
I'd like to see this extended |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 06:19 PM |
#145 |
 -
Of course, and people of the Santeria religion |
PA Democrat |
Jan-23-05 06:22 PM |
#146 |
 -
As an atheist, I demand |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 07:00 PM |
#154 |
-
hah! |
ulysses |
Jan-23-05 07:02 PM |
#155 |
 -
Now all we need is the Supreme Court to endorse it! |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 07:10 PM |
#158 |
-
It would be outside of school, not during school hours |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-23-05 07:04 PM |
#156 |
-
Nice!!! It works for my Faith! |
98geoduck |
Jan-23-05 11:38 PM |
#173 |
-
Geez WHAT is with those RED STATES today? |
progressivebydesign |
Jan-23-05 09:16 PM |
#167 |
-
View from a former Staunton resident |
MountainLaurel |
Jan-23-05 09:36 PM |
#169 |
 -
Ahh... Clever... |
arwalden |
Jan-24-05 05:47 AM |
#174 |
  -
I attended one of these 30 years ago... |
VirginiaDem |
Jan-24-05 06:11 AM |
#175 |
  -
You're welcome |
Southpaw Bookworm |
Jan-24-05 03:07 PM |
#185 |
 -
Another perspective |
MountainLaurel |
Jan-24-05 09:44 PM |
#186 |
-
I'd be pissed |
LeftyMom |
Jan-23-05 10:50 PM |
#170 |
-
They are wasting time either way. |
tblue37 |
Jan-23-05 11:35 PM |
#172 |
 -
So, would you be the only person to support me |
LWolf |
Jan-24-05 07:22 AM |
#176 |
  -
I would support you |
PA Democrat |
Jan-24-05 08:15 AM |
#178 |
   -
Great idea. |
LWolf |
Jan-25-05 07:25 AM |
#195 |
  -
LWolf, I certainly would support you. |
tblue37 |
Jan-24-05 12:08 PM |
#179 |
 -
I've been browsing the site. |
LWolf |
Jan-25-05 07:22 AM |
#193 |
 -
Actually, the ADD/ADHD commentary is on another of my |
tblue37 |
Jan-25-05 01:18 PM |
#203 |
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My mom always said: |
knitter4democracy |
Jan-25-05 08:48 AM |
#202 |
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It looks as if the locals are dealing with the situation.... |
Bridget Burke |
Jan-24-05 07:59 AM |
#177 |
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Paging Bouncy Ball!! |
fob |
Jan-24-05 01:19 PM |
#183 |