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Reply #107: Stern's speech does NOT actually mention the "Christian right" in the US [View All]

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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:20 AM
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107. Stern's speech does NOT actually mention the "Christian right" in the US
(unless the online version has been censored). The NYT article states that Stern "warned in a speech about the danger posed in this country by the rise of the Christian right". Strangely, this is not so, again, unless the online version of the speech has been censored. The speech is much more subtle than that. It doesn't directly mention conditions in the US today, but I'm sure that the intelligent audience there could read between the lines and draw parallels to the Bush regime. The only reference to current events is here, in the introduction to his speech (2nd paragraph):
"I am also grateful for the timing of this event. It would be nice to ascribe this to some invisible hand, but I suspect it had to do with the visibly crowded schedule of the Foreign Minister. Still, for me it is felicitous because it is an encouragement at a hard time; events of the last ten days have intensified my reasoned apprehension, my worry about the immediate future of the country that saved us and taught us and gave us so much. I take heart from tonight, since renewed hope is itself a marvelous gift."

The speech is here: http://www.lbi.org/fritzstern.html

These parts of the speech particularly caught my attention (in addition to the quotes in the NYT piece) :

"But the rise of National Socialism was neither inevitable nor accidental. It did have deep roots, but the most urgent lesson to remember is that it could have been stopped. This is but one of the many lessons contained in modern German history, lessons that should not be squandered in cheap and ignorant analogies. A key lesson is that civic passivity and willed blindness were the preconditions for the triumph of National Socialism, which many clearheaded Germans recognized at the time as a monstrous danger and ultimate nemesis."
<snip>
"Allow me a few remarks not about the banality of evil but about its triumph in a deeply civilized country. After the Great War and Germany’s defeat, conditions were harsh and Germans were deeply divided between moderates and democrats on the one hand and fanatic extremists of the right and the left on the other. National Socialists portrayed Germany as a nation that had been betrayed or stabbed in the back by socialists and Jews; they portrayed Weimar Germany as a moral-political swamp; they seized on the Bolshevik-Marxist danger, painted it in lurid colors, and stoked people’s fear in order to pose as saviors of the nation... Richly financed by corporate interests, they denounced liberalism as the greatest, most invidious threat, and attacked it for its tolerance, rationality and cosmopolitan culture... Throughout, the Nazis vilified liberalism as a semi-Marxist-Jewish conspiracy and, with Germany in the midst of unprecedented depression and immiseration, they promised a national rebirth."
<snip>
"People were enthralled by the Nazis’ cunning transposition of politics into carefully staged pageantry, into flag-waving martial mass. At solemn moments, the National Socialists would shift from the pseudo-religious invocation of Providence to traditional Christian forms: In his first radio address to the German people, twenty-four hours after coming to power, Hitler declared, “The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built up. They regard Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as the basis of national life.” <snip>
"Though modern German history offers lessons in both disaster and recovery, German has remained the language of politics in crisis. And the principal lesson speaks of the fragility of democracy, the fatality of civic passivity or indifference; German history teaches us that malice and simplicity have their own appeal, that force impresses, and that nothing in the public realm is inevitable."
<snip>
"Every democracy needs a liberal fundament, a Bill of Rights enshrined in law and spirit, for this alone gives democracy the chance for self-correction and reform. Without it, the survival of democracy is at risk. Every genuine conservative knows this."

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  -Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse Liberty Belle  Jan-07-05 11:35 PM   #0 
  - this is very scary indeed nt  steve2470   Jan-07-05 11:46 PM   # 
  - Congressman Retreats on "Schindler"--Sort Of  saigon68   Jan-08-05 05:48 AM   #17 
     - The message that  Jawja   Jan-08-05 08:10 AM   #27 
     - Are "decent minded people" outraged any more at any atrocities?  DrZeeLit   Jan-08-05 08:55 AM   #32 
     - Uh-oh...  Clark2008   Jan-08-05 12:39 PM   #52 
        - Excellent line. I never thought of it, but.... HOW TRUE! n/t  DrZeeLit   Jan-08-05 01:17 PM   #57 
           - That picture is just hysterical. Are they yours?  leesa   Jan-09-05 10:12 AM   #120 
     - He's not from America...  Harry S Truman   Jan-08-05 10:20 AM   #37 
     - LOL! But in Okla's defense......  hangemhigh   Jan-09-05 10:57 AM   #121 
     - The GOP MINDSET:  MADem   Jan-08-05 09:39 PM   #96 
     - "Weird right-wing Jesus"  area51   Jan-08-05 10:20 AM   #38 
     - LOL  ashmanonar   Jan-08-05 01:46 PM   #61 
     - Where is the retreat?  BrklynLiberal   Jan-08-05 06:56 PM   #82 
  - Amazing that the NYTimes would run this story.  DELUSIONAL   Jan-07-05 11:46 PM   #1 
  - I am surprised about the NYT running it too.  shraby   Jan-07-05 11:49 PM   #2 
  - That's why they buried the story  DoYouEverWonder   Jan-08-05 12:43 AM   #9 
     - It's in the regional section because  sherilocks   Jan-08-05 07:10 AM   #18 
        - It has nothing to do with where the speech was given  DoYouEverWonder   Jan-08-05 07:34 AM   #19 
        - I respectfully disagree  sherilocks   Jan-08-05 07:39 AM   #20 
        - Chris Hedges  DoYouEverWonder   Jan-08-05 07:49 AM   #21 
        - Never the less, he's a reporter  sherilocks   Jan-08-05 08:00 AM   #25 
        - So if there was a nuclear bomb explosion in Trenton  Cheswick2.0   Jan-08-05 08:27 AM   #30 
        - And a best selling author as well  Eloriel   Jan-08-05 11:24 AM   #45 
           - this book addict thanks you muchly for the link! :-)  meppie-meppie not   Jan-08-05 12:42 PM   #53 
           - Chris Hedges has also written a very moving and disturbing  potone   Jan-08-05 05:50 PM   #75 
              - Chris Hedges probably knew that the only way the NYTimes would print  BrklynLiberal   Jan-08-05 07:01 PM   #83 
        - You are 90% wrong, Sherlilocks  tom_paine   Jan-08-05 08:34 AM   #31 
           - The problem is that this speech was given  sherilocks   Jan-08-05 11:14 AM   #44 
              - That makes NO sense to me  Eloriel   Jan-08-05 11:32 AM   #46 
              - You are kidding, right?  sherilocks   Jan-08-05 12:13 PM   #49 
                 - No, I'm not kidding  Eloriel   Jan-08-05 02:26 PM   #62 
                    - Nice GOP trick  knight_of_the_star   Jan-08-05 09:22 PM   #94 
                    - Actually, I did respond  sherilocks   Jan-09-05 06:25 AM   #112 
              - the problem is that too many are just whistling past the grave yard  bpilgrim   Jan-08-05 01:26 PM   #58 
              - Understand that the NYT and others have been CIA-influenced for decades.  JohnOneillsMemory   Jan-08-05 04:03 PM   #68 
              - Agreed. BushCo is a student of the Nazi regime:  joeunderdog   Jan-10-05 11:34 AM   #132 
              - Actually, the speech was given in the US. The German foreign minister  kath   Jan-09-05 12:42 AM   #105 
        - They put a piece about voting machine problems in the technology section.  Beth in VT   Jan-08-05 03:50 PM   #67 
        - page one  Cheswick2.0   Jan-08-05 08:25 AM   #29 
        - What the New York Times didn't mentioned  MHalblaub   Jan-10-05 09:33 AM   #130 
  - Yes the NYT  burrowowl   Jan-07-05 11:49 PM   #3 
  - Yes. We should forward this to other media.  Liberty Belle   Jan-08-05 12:48 AM   #10 
     - The 14 Symptoms of Fascism. Here is the link.  JohnOneillsMemory   Jan-08-05 04:12 PM   #69 
        - I printed, copied and distributed those "symptoms".  Just Me   Jan-08-05 06:16 PM   #77 
        - We are already there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  BrklynLiberal   Jan-08-05 07:07 PM   #85 
           - yes 14 out of 14 not good  klyon   Jan-09-05 07:09 AM   #113 
  - finally in the main stream - nt  28erl   Jan-08-05 12:02 AM   #4 
  - I hope more and more editors start to "get it", about what's going on here  loudsue   Jan-08-05 12:06 AM   #5 
  - This is important.  jaime_176   Jan-08-05 12:11 AM   #6 
  - All I can say is Thank GOD!  bliss_eternal   Jan-08-05 12:12 AM   #7 
  - my thoughts exactly! nt  meppie-meppie not   Jan-08-05 12:48 PM   #54 
  - You're welcome! See my new thread on fascism...  Liberty Belle   Jan-08-05 11:58 PM   #98 
  - "No one will talk about it. No one wants to look at it."  TahitiNut   Jan-08-05 12:39 AM   #8 
  - Amen!!- (a little religious right lingo) I hate being a part of the left-  Prodemsouth   Jan-08-05 08:00 AM   #24 
  - Have you seen this article?  Eloriel   Jan-08-05 11:36 AM   #47 
     - Yup. It echoes the 'malignant narcissist' diagnosis we at DU found.  TahitiNut   Jan-08-05 11:56 AM   #48 
     - What's terribly disturbing is his sickness is like an infectious disease.  Just Me   Jan-08-05 06:31 PM   #78 
        - That's why references to 1930's Germany are relevant and appropriate.  TahitiNut   Jan-09-05 09:02 AM   #116 
     - Also read "Bush on the Couch"  arikara   Jan-08-05 12:37 PM   #51 
     - that was a good book..  meppie-meppie not   Jan-08-05 12:53 PM   #55 
     - very very interesting...  ashmanonar   Jan-08-05 02:34 PM   #63 
     - impeachment nt  meppie-meppie not   Jan-08-05 04:13 PM   #70 
        - that would be the logical thing  ashmanonar   Jan-08-05 09:41 PM   #97 
     - That is really an excellent article. He writes so well.  jaime_176   Jan-08-05 05:56 PM   #76 
     - Inside Out  Hebegirl   Jan-09-05 01:04 AM   #106 
        - Yes. No excuses for him and his policies.  jaime_176   Jan-09-05 04:51 PM   #126 
     - Bush has Narcissitic Personality disorder....  chomskysright   Jan-08-05 09:25 PM   #95 
        - Yup. He's the poster boy for NPD as described in DSM-IV.  TahitiNut   Jan-09-05 09:03 AM   #117 
  - glad it is coming to the forefront now, but didn't we notice this right  NVMojo   Jan-08-05 01:09 AM   #11 
  - Well,  Delphinus   Jan-08-05 04:34 AM   #14 
  - Remember the television mini-series  Kurovski   Jan-08-05 05:24 PM   #73 
  - Rove used this formula from the beginning of his career. He has just  BrklynLiberal   Jan-08-05 07:16 PM   #88 
  - This is a puff piece  keopeli   Jan-08-05 01:50 AM   #12 
  - Whoa..a major academic is comparing Bu*h Adm to Nazi's  Jose Diablo   Jan-08-05 02:28 AM   #13 
  - Here's a column by Thom Hartmann from March 2003  Kurovski   Jan-08-05 05:40 PM   #74 
  - hitler did not base his beliefs nor his doctrine on christianity.  Niche   Jan-08-05 04:49 AM   #15 
  - I wouldn't consider * a Christian..  KDLarsen   Jan-08-05 07:58 AM   #23 
  - Nor would I...  Montanan   Jan-08-05 08:20 AM   #28 
     - You mean, for example, get Jerry Falwell riled up over all the Moonies  AirAmFan   Jan-09-05 08:59 AM   #115 
  - Bullshit.  AngryWhiteLiberal   Jan-08-05 10:16 AM   #36 
  - Forgot to mention...  theycanbiteme   Jan-08-05 10:40 AM   #42 
  - No, but he used Christianity in much the same way Bush does  Eloriel   Jan-08-05 02:36 PM   #64 
  - it's the christian right + the corporate oligarchy  xchrom   Jan-08-05 05:37 AM   #16 
  - It is indeed in plain sight and I have seen it for 4 years now....  leftchick   Jan-08-05 07:49 AM   #22 
  - Yup...  calipendence   Jan-08-05 08:02 AM   #26 
  - with all due respect to Mr. MacArthur  Skittles   Jan-08-05 09:43 AM   #33 
  - A Big Advantage  Melynn   Jan-08-05 10:01 AM   #34 
  - The Internet....can and will be shutdown...  theycanbiteme   Jan-08-05 10:31 AM   #40 
     - Perhaps your right  Melynn   Jan-08-05 01:27 PM   #59 
  - Finally!! Calling the Xtian Fascists out on the carpet!  AngryWhiteLiberal   Jan-08-05 10:12 AM   #35 
  - "He wanted to grasp how democracies disintegrate"  barb162   Jan-08-05 10:22 AM   #39 
  - OMG...  theycanbiteme   Jan-08-05 10:39 AM   #41 
  - Hmmm.........makes ya wanta stay out of a church, eh?  goforit   Jan-08-05 12:27 PM   #50 
     - Just the opposite. Ask the preacher to deliver a sermon on fascism.  Liberty Belle   Jan-09-05 12:00 AM   #99 
  - The Republicans only seek to use the Christian right as a tool like Hitler  Zynx   Jan-08-05 10:41 AM   #43 
  - The Nazi's Never Went Away  Beetwasher   Jan-08-05 01:13 PM   #56 
  - Hell, we brought a bunch of them over here after the war.  reprobate   Jan-09-05 01:56 AM   #109 
  - Someone (back just before the election)  rdmccur   Jan-08-05 01:37 PM   #60 
  - Hitler speech re Christianity.  NYC   Jan-08-05 03:26 PM   #65 
     - Thanks for the quote...nails the Xtian Fundy / Nazi connection.  AngryWhiteLiberal   Jan-08-05 04:40 PM   #72 
     - Do you have a link for your source?  Liberty Belle   Jan-09-05 12:02 AM   #100 
        - Sorry, I lost the link.  NYC   Jan-10-05 11:00 AM   #131 
  - I'm preaching a sermon about this in early March.  intheflow   Jan-08-05 03:35 PM   #66 
  - Hope you read this UU sermon from Vet's Day: Living Under Fascism.  JohnOneillsMemory   Jan-08-05 06:39 PM   #79 
  - But of course.  intheflow   Jan-08-05 06:53 PM   #81 
  - Good for you! Can you tell us which church or religious group  Liberty Belle   Jan-09-05 12:03 AM   #101 
     - A UU congregation.  intheflow   Jan-09-05 11:03 AM   #122 
  - "A student"? Fritz Stern is a leading scholar of European history!  despairing optimist   Jan-08-05 04:18 PM   #71 
  - I'm glad to see it  tavalon   Jan-09-05 06:12 AM   #111 
     - When even US conservatives are beginning to suspect it's fascism,  despairing optimist   Jan-09-05 05:16 PM   #127 
  - Advertisement in this post  Newfoundland   Jan-08-05 06:48 PM   #80 
  - Thanks for stopping in!  Rose Siding   Jan-08-05 07:04 PM   #84 
  - ...and now farewell  JoFerret   Jan-08-05 07:55 PM   #93 
  - There is a list in the post responses.  Kurovski   Jan-08-05 07:13 PM   #86 
  - Strange response to an interesting  JoFerret   Jan-08-05 07:15 PM   #87 
  - McAmeriWalMartika- they thought they were free  poe   Jan-08-05 07:19 PM   #89 
  - There Is The Christian Left Too . . .  Dinger   Jan-08-05 07:20 PM   #90 
  - There was a thread recently that...  infusionman   Jan-08-05 07:23 PM   #91 
  - KKKarl Rove's grandfather a Nazi. Rove has dual citizenship  BrklynLiberal   Jan-08-05 07:42 PM   #92 
  - If true, this is a ticking time bomb.  Liberty Belle   Jan-09-05 12:09 AM   #103 
  - Karl Rove has German citizenship? I'd take this alleged factoid with a  AirAmFan   Jan-09-05 09:11 AM   #119 
  - This alleged German connection has intrigued me especially  neweurope   Jan-11-05 04:56 AM   #137 
  - I have to say, I have known this. I spent a year researching  Lisabtrucking   Jan-09-05 12:07 AM   #102 
  - You would think that our system of government wouldn't allow this.  Bleachers7   Jan-09-05 12:26 AM   #104 
     - You would think the American PEOPLE wouldn't allow this  magellan   Jan-09-05 01:24 AM   #108 
        - I agree, like I said we are bound to repeat history, because we don't  Lisabtrucking   Jan-09-05 03:01 PM   #125 
        - Yes, you are right. Some are already rethinking what they've done.  Liberty Belle   Jan-09-05 11:43 PM   #129 
  - Stern's speech does NOT actually mention the "Christian right" in the US  kath   Jan-09-05 01:20 AM   #107 
  - The more I think about this, the stranger it seems - why did the NYT  kath   Jan-09-05 01:33 PM   #124 
  - Democrats Call on President to Stop Covert Propaganda in U.S. Media  sarahlee   Jan-09-05 04:19 AM   #110 
  - "Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse"  JAK1941   Jan-09-05 07:24 AM   #114 
  - Welcome to DU JAK1941!!!!........Well said!!!  goforit   Jan-09-05 09:08 AM   #118 
  - For many years...  bobaloo2   Jan-09-05 11:20 AM   #123 
  - What's the difference between a "liberal" and one on the "extreme left"?  DireStrike   Jan-09-05 07:33 PM   #128 
  - kick  kath   Jan-10-05 09:27 PM   #133 
  - Don't take this the wrong way...  oecher3   Jan-11-05 12:31 AM   #134 
  - This is truely frightening  Megahurtz   Jan-11-05 12:42 AM   #135 
  - I think that Dominionism is the driving force of  memory   Jan-11-05 02:04 AM   #136 
  - Does anyone find it Scary that * wants to get rid of the United Nations?  Debbie13   Jan-11-05 08:42 AM   #138 
  - No, why?  MHalblaub   Jan-11-05 12:30 PM   #139 
  - kick - as our democracy goes slip-slidin' away  kath   Jan-12-05 07:12 PM   #140 
  - "Kick" - What does it mean? Sorry, I'm a beginner.  MHalblaub   Jan-13-05 09:22 AM   #141 
     - A reply to a thread "kicks" or "bumps" it to the top of the list in that  Vidar   Jan-13-05 06:25 PM   #142 
     - Welcome to DU.  Vidar   Jan-13-05 06:26 PM   #143 
  - American Jews think it can't happen here!  IndianaGreen   Jan-13-05 06:47 PM   #144 
 

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