kath
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Sun Jan-09-05 01:20 AM
Response to Original message |
| 107. Stern's speech does NOT actually mention the "Christian right" in the US |
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(unless the online version has been censored). The NYT article states that Stern "warned in a speech about the danger posed in this country by the rise of the Christian right". Strangely, this is not so, again, unless the online version of the speech has been censored. The speech is much more subtle than that. It doesn't directly mention conditions in the US today, but I'm sure that the intelligent audience there could read between the lines and draw parallels to the Bush regime. The only reference to current events is here, in the introduction to his speech (2nd paragraph): "I am also grateful for the timing of this event. It would be nice to ascribe this to some invisible hand, but I suspect it had to do with the visibly crowded schedule of the Foreign Minister. Still, for me it is felicitous because it is an encouragement at a hard time; events of the last ten days have intensified my reasoned apprehension, my worry about the immediate future of the country that saved us and taught us and gave us so much. I take heart from tonight, since renewed hope is itself a marvelous gift."
The speech is here: http://www.lbi.org/fritzstern.html
These parts of the speech particularly caught my attention (in addition to the quotes in the NYT piece) :
"But the rise of National Socialism was neither inevitable nor accidental. It did have deep roots, but the most urgent lesson to remember is that it could have been stopped. This is but one of the many lessons contained in modern German history, lessons that should not be squandered in cheap and ignorant analogies. A key lesson is that civic passivity and willed blindness were the preconditions for the triumph of National Socialism, which many clearheaded Germans recognized at the time as a monstrous danger and ultimate nemesis." <snip> "Allow me a few remarks not about the banality of evil but about its triumph in a deeply civilized country. After the Great War and Germany’s defeat, conditions were harsh and Germans were deeply divided between moderates and democrats on the one hand and fanatic extremists of the right and the left on the other. National Socialists portrayed Germany as a nation that had been betrayed or stabbed in the back by socialists and Jews; they portrayed Weimar Germany as a moral-political swamp; they seized on the Bolshevik-Marxist danger, painted it in lurid colors, and stoked people’s fear in order to pose as saviors of the nation... Richly financed by corporate interests, they denounced liberalism as the greatest, most invidious threat, and attacked it for its tolerance, rationality and cosmopolitan culture... Throughout, the Nazis vilified liberalism as a semi-Marxist-Jewish conspiracy and, with Germany in the midst of unprecedented depression and immiseration, they promised a national rebirth." <snip> "People were enthralled by the Nazis’ cunning transposition of politics into carefully staged pageantry, into flag-waving martial mass. At solemn moments, the National Socialists would shift from the pseudo-religious invocation of Providence to traditional Christian forms: In his first radio address to the German people, twenty-four hours after coming to power, Hitler declared, “The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built up. They regard Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as the basis of national life.” <snip> "Though modern German history offers lessons in both disaster and recovery, German has remained the language of politics in crisis. And the principal lesson speaks of the fragility of democracy, the fatality of civic passivity or indifference; German history teaches us that malice and simplicity have their own appeal, that force impresses, and that nothing in the public realm is inevitable." <snip> "Every democracy needs a liberal fundament, a Bill of Rights enshrined in law and spirit, for this alone gives democracy the chance for self-correction and reform. Without it, the survival of democracy is at risk. Every genuine conservative knows this."
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| -Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-07-05 11:35 PM |
#0 |
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this is very scary indeed nt |
steve2470 |
Jan-07-05 11:46 PM |
# |
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Congressman Retreats on "Schindler"--Sort Of |
saigon68 |
Jan-08-05 05:48 AM |
#17 |
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The message that |
Jawja |
Jan-08-05 08:10 AM |
#27 |
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Are "decent minded people" outraged any more at any atrocities? |
DrZeeLit |
Jan-08-05 08:55 AM |
#32 |
  -
Uh-oh... |
Clark2008 |
Jan-08-05 12:39 PM |
#52 |
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Excellent line. I never thought of it, but.... HOW TRUE! n/t |
DrZeeLit |
Jan-08-05 01:17 PM |
#57 |
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That picture is just hysterical. Are they yours? |
leesa |
Jan-09-05 10:12 AM |
#120 |
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He's not from America... |
Harry S Truman |
Jan-08-05 10:20 AM |
#37 |
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LOL! But in Okla's defense...... |
hangemhigh |
Jan-09-05 10:57 AM |
#121 |
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The GOP MINDSET: |
MADem |
Jan-08-05 09:39 PM |
#96 |
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"Weird right-wing Jesus" |
area51 |
Jan-08-05 10:20 AM |
#38 |
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LOL |
ashmanonar |
Jan-08-05 01:46 PM |
#61 |
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Where is the retreat? |
BrklynLiberal |
Jan-08-05 06:56 PM |
#82 |
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Amazing that the NYTimes would run this story. |
DELUSIONAL |
Jan-07-05 11:46 PM |
#1 |
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I am surprised about the NYT running it too. |
shraby |
Jan-07-05 11:49 PM |
#2 |
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That's why they buried the story |
DoYouEverWonder |
Jan-08-05 12:43 AM |
#9 |
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It's in the regional section because |
sherilocks |
Jan-08-05 07:10 AM |
#18 |
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It has nothing to do with where the speech was given |
DoYouEverWonder |
Jan-08-05 07:34 AM |
#19 |
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I respectfully disagree |
sherilocks |
Jan-08-05 07:39 AM |
#20 |
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Chris Hedges |
DoYouEverWonder |
Jan-08-05 07:49 AM |
#21 |
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Never the less, he's a reporter |
sherilocks |
Jan-08-05 08:00 AM |
#25 |
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So if there was a nuclear bomb explosion in Trenton |
Cheswick2.0 |
Jan-08-05 08:27 AM |
#30 |
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And a best selling author as well |
Eloriel |
Jan-08-05 11:24 AM |
#45 |
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this book addict thanks you muchly for the link! :-) |
meppie-meppie not |
Jan-08-05 12:42 PM |
#53 |
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Chris Hedges has also written a very moving and disturbing |
potone |
Jan-08-05 05:50 PM |
#75 |
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Chris Hedges probably knew that the only way the NYTimes would print |
BrklynLiberal |
Jan-08-05 07:01 PM |
#83 |
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You are 90% wrong, Sherlilocks |
tom_paine |
Jan-08-05 08:34 AM |
#31 |
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The problem is that this speech was given |
sherilocks |
Jan-08-05 11:14 AM |
#44 |
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That makes NO sense to me |
Eloriel |
Jan-08-05 11:32 AM |
#46 |
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You are kidding, right? |
sherilocks |
Jan-08-05 12:13 PM |
#49 |
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No, I'm not kidding |
Eloriel |
Jan-08-05 02:26 PM |
#62 |
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Nice GOP trick |
knight_of_the_star |
Jan-08-05 09:22 PM |
#94 |
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Actually, I did respond |
sherilocks |
Jan-09-05 06:25 AM |
#112 |
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the problem is that too many are just whistling past the grave yard |
bpilgrim |
Jan-08-05 01:26 PM |
#58 |
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Understand that the NYT and others have been CIA-influenced for decades. |
JohnOneillsMemory |
Jan-08-05 04:03 PM |
#68 |
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Agreed. BushCo is a student of the Nazi regime: |
joeunderdog |
Jan-10-05 11:34 AM |
#132 |
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Actually, the speech was given in the US. The German foreign minister |
kath |
Jan-09-05 12:42 AM |
#105 |
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They put a piece about voting machine problems in the technology section. |
Beth in VT |
Jan-08-05 03:50 PM |
#67 |
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page one |
Cheswick2.0 |
Jan-08-05 08:25 AM |
#29 |
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What the New York Times didn't mentioned |
MHalblaub |
Jan-10-05 09:33 AM |
#130 |
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Yes the NYT |
burrowowl |
Jan-07-05 11:49 PM |
#3 |
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Yes. We should forward this to other media. |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-08-05 12:48 AM |
#10 |
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The 14 Symptoms of Fascism. Here is the link. |
JohnOneillsMemory |
Jan-08-05 04:12 PM |
#69 |
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I printed, copied and distributed those "symptoms". |
Just Me |
Jan-08-05 06:16 PM |
#77 |
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We are already there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
BrklynLiberal |
Jan-08-05 07:07 PM |
#85 |
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yes 14 out of 14 not good |
klyon |
Jan-09-05 07:09 AM |
#113 |
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finally in the main stream - nt |
28erl |
Jan-08-05 12:02 AM |
#4 |
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I hope more and more editors start to "get it", about what's going on here |
loudsue |
Jan-08-05 12:06 AM |
#5 |
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This is important. |
jaime_176 |
Jan-08-05 12:11 AM |
#6 |
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All I can say is Thank GOD! |
bliss_eternal |
Jan-08-05 12:12 AM |
#7 |
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my thoughts exactly! nt |
meppie-meppie not |
Jan-08-05 12:48 PM |
#54 |
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You're welcome! See my new thread on fascism... |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-08-05 11:58 PM |
#98 |
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"No one will talk about it. No one wants to look at it." |
TahitiNut |
Jan-08-05 12:39 AM |
#8 |
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Amen!!- (a little religious right lingo) I hate being a part of the left- |
Prodemsouth |
Jan-08-05 08:00 AM |
#24 |
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Have you seen this article? |
Eloriel |
Jan-08-05 11:36 AM |
#47 |
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Yup. It echoes the 'malignant narcissist' diagnosis we at DU found. |
TahitiNut |
Jan-08-05 11:56 AM |
#48 |
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What's terribly disturbing is his sickness is like an infectious disease. |
Just Me |
Jan-08-05 06:31 PM |
#78 |
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That's why references to 1930's Germany are relevant and appropriate. |
TahitiNut |
Jan-09-05 09:02 AM |
#116 |
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Also read "Bush on the Couch" |
arikara |
Jan-08-05 12:37 PM |
#51 |
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that was a good book.. |
meppie-meppie not |
Jan-08-05 12:53 PM |
#55 |
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very very interesting... |
ashmanonar |
Jan-08-05 02:34 PM |
#63 |
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impeachment nt |
meppie-meppie not |
Jan-08-05 04:13 PM |
#70 |
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that would be the logical thing |
ashmanonar |
Jan-08-05 09:41 PM |
#97 |
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That is really an excellent article. He writes so well. |
jaime_176 |
Jan-08-05 05:56 PM |
#76 |
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Inside Out |
Hebegirl |
Jan-09-05 01:04 AM |
#106 |
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Yes. No excuses for him and his policies. |
jaime_176 |
Jan-09-05 04:51 PM |
#126 |
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Bush has Narcissitic Personality disorder.... |
chomskysright |
Jan-08-05 09:25 PM |
#95 |
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Yup. He's the poster boy for NPD as described in DSM-IV. |
TahitiNut |
Jan-09-05 09:03 AM |
#117 |
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glad it is coming to the forefront now, but didn't we notice this right |
NVMojo |
Jan-08-05 01:09 AM |
#11 |
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Well, |
Delphinus |
Jan-08-05 04:34 AM |
#14 |
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Remember the television mini-series |
Kurovski |
Jan-08-05 05:24 PM |
#73 |
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Rove used this formula from the beginning of his career. He has just |
BrklynLiberal |
Jan-08-05 07:16 PM |
#88 |
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This is a puff piece |
keopeli |
Jan-08-05 01:50 AM |
#12 |
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Whoa..a major academic is comparing Bu*h Adm to Nazi's |
Jose Diablo |
Jan-08-05 02:28 AM |
#13 |
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Here's a column by Thom Hartmann from March 2003 |
Kurovski |
Jan-08-05 05:40 PM |
#74 |
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hitler did not base his beliefs nor his doctrine on christianity. |
Niche |
Jan-08-05 04:49 AM |
#15 |
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I wouldn't consider * a Christian.. |
KDLarsen |
Jan-08-05 07:58 AM |
#23 |
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Nor would I... |
Montanan |
Jan-08-05 08:20 AM |
#28 |
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You mean, for example, get Jerry Falwell riled up over all the Moonies |
AirAmFan |
Jan-09-05 08:59 AM |
#115 |
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Bullshit. |
AngryWhiteLiberal |
Jan-08-05 10:16 AM |
#36 |
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Forgot to mention... |
theycanbiteme |
Jan-08-05 10:40 AM |
#42 |
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No, but he used Christianity in much the same way Bush does |
Eloriel |
Jan-08-05 02:36 PM |
#64 |
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it's the christian right + the corporate oligarchy |
xchrom |
Jan-08-05 05:37 AM |
#16 |
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It is indeed in plain sight and I have seen it for 4 years now.... |
leftchick |
Jan-08-05 07:49 AM |
#22 |
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Yup... |
calipendence |
Jan-08-05 08:02 AM |
#26 |
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with all due respect to Mr. MacArthur |
Skittles |
Jan-08-05 09:43 AM |
#33 |
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A Big Advantage |
Melynn |
Jan-08-05 10:01 AM |
#34 |
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The Internet....can and will be shutdown... |
theycanbiteme |
Jan-08-05 10:31 AM |
#40 |
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Perhaps your right |
Melynn |
Jan-08-05 01:27 PM |
#59 |
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Finally!! Calling the Xtian Fascists out on the carpet! |
AngryWhiteLiberal |
Jan-08-05 10:12 AM |
#35 |
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"He wanted to grasp how democracies disintegrate" |
barb162 |
Jan-08-05 10:22 AM |
#39 |
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OMG... |
theycanbiteme |
Jan-08-05 10:39 AM |
#41 |
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Hmmm.........makes ya wanta stay out of a church, eh? |
goforit |
Jan-08-05 12:27 PM |
#50 |
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Just the opposite. Ask the preacher to deliver a sermon on fascism. |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-09-05 12:00 AM |
#99 |
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The Republicans only seek to use the Christian right as a tool like Hitler |
Zynx |
Jan-08-05 10:41 AM |
#43 |
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The Nazi's Never Went Away |
Beetwasher |
Jan-08-05 01:13 PM |
#56 |
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Hell, we brought a bunch of them over here after the war. |
reprobate |
Jan-09-05 01:56 AM |
#109 |
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Someone (back just before the election) |
rdmccur |
Jan-08-05 01:37 PM |
#60 |
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Hitler speech re Christianity. |
NYC |
Jan-08-05 03:26 PM |
#65 |
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Thanks for the quote...nails the Xtian Fundy / Nazi connection. |
AngryWhiteLiberal |
Jan-08-05 04:40 PM |
#72 |
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Do you have a link for your source? |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-09-05 12:02 AM |
#100 |
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Sorry, I lost the link. |
NYC |
Jan-10-05 11:00 AM |
#131 |
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I'm preaching a sermon about this in early March. |
intheflow |
Jan-08-05 03:35 PM |
#66 |
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Hope you read this UU sermon from Vet's Day: Living Under Fascism. |
JohnOneillsMemory |
Jan-08-05 06:39 PM |
#79 |
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But of course. |
intheflow |
Jan-08-05 06:53 PM |
#81 |
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Good for you! Can you tell us which church or religious group |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-09-05 12:03 AM |
#101 |
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A UU congregation. |
intheflow |
Jan-09-05 11:03 AM |
#122 |
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"A student"? Fritz Stern is a leading scholar of European history! |
despairing optimist |
Jan-08-05 04:18 PM |
#71 |
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I'm glad to see it |
tavalon |
Jan-09-05 06:12 AM |
#111 |
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When even US conservatives are beginning to suspect it's fascism, |
despairing optimist |
Jan-09-05 05:16 PM |
#127 |
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Advertisement in this post |
Newfoundland |
Jan-08-05 06:48 PM |
#80 |
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Thanks for stopping in! |
Rose Siding |
Jan-08-05 07:04 PM |
#84 |
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...and now farewell |
JoFerret |
Jan-08-05 07:55 PM |
#93 |
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There is a list in the post responses. |
Kurovski |
Jan-08-05 07:13 PM |
#86 |
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Strange response to an interesting |
JoFerret |
Jan-08-05 07:15 PM |
#87 |
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McAmeriWalMartika- they thought they were free |
poe |
Jan-08-05 07:19 PM |
#89 |
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There Is The Christian Left Too . . . |
Dinger |
Jan-08-05 07:20 PM |
#90 |
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There was a thread recently that... |
infusionman |
Jan-08-05 07:23 PM |
#91 |
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KKKarl Rove's grandfather a Nazi. Rove has dual citizenship |
BrklynLiberal |
Jan-08-05 07:42 PM |
#92 |
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If true, this is a ticking time bomb. |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-09-05 12:09 AM |
#103 |
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Karl Rove has German citizenship? I'd take this alleged factoid with a |
AirAmFan |
Jan-09-05 09:11 AM |
#119 |
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This alleged German connection has intrigued me especially |
neweurope |
Jan-11-05 04:56 AM |
#137 |
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I have to say, I have known this. I spent a year researching |
Lisabtrucking |
Jan-09-05 12:07 AM |
#102 |
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You would think that our system of government wouldn't allow this. |
Bleachers7 |
Jan-09-05 12:26 AM |
#104 |
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You would think the American PEOPLE wouldn't allow this |
magellan |
Jan-09-05 01:24 AM |
#108 |
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I agree, like I said we are bound to repeat history, because we don't |
Lisabtrucking |
Jan-09-05 03:01 PM |
#125 |
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Yes, you are right. Some are already rethinking what they've done. |
Liberty Belle |
Jan-09-05 11:43 PM |
#129 |
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Stern's speech does NOT actually mention the "Christian right" in the US |
kath |
Jan-09-05 01:20 AM |
#107 |
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The more I think about this, the stranger it seems - why did the NYT |
kath |
Jan-09-05 01:33 PM |
#124 |
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Democrats Call on President to Stop Covert Propaganda in U.S. Media |
sarahlee |
Jan-09-05 04:19 AM |
#110 |
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"Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse" |
JAK1941 |
Jan-09-05 07:24 AM |
#114 |
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Welcome to DU JAK1941!!!!........Well said!!! |
goforit |
Jan-09-05 09:08 AM |
#118 |
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For many years... |
bobaloo2 |
Jan-09-05 11:20 AM |
#123 |
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What's the difference between a "liberal" and one on the "extreme left"? |
DireStrike |
Jan-09-05 07:33 PM |
#128 |
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kick |
kath |
Jan-10-05 09:27 PM |
#133 |
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Don't take this the wrong way... |
oecher3 |
Jan-11-05 12:31 AM |
#134 |
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This is truely frightening |
Megahurtz |
Jan-11-05 12:42 AM |
#135 |
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I think that Dominionism is the driving force of |
memory |
Jan-11-05 02:04 AM |
#136 |
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Does anyone find it Scary that * wants to get rid of the United Nations? |
Debbie13 |
Jan-11-05 08:42 AM |
#138 |
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No, why? |
MHalblaub |
Jan-11-05 12:30 PM |
#139 |
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kick - as our democracy goes slip-slidin' away |
kath |
Jan-12-05 07:12 PM |
#140 |
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"Kick" - What does it mean? Sorry, I'm a beginner. |
MHalblaub |
Jan-13-05 09:22 AM |
#141 |
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A reply to a thread "kicks" or "bumps" it to the top of the list in that |
Vidar |
Jan-13-05 06:25 PM |
#142 |
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Welcome to DU. |
Vidar |
Jan-13-05 06:26 PM |
#143 |
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American Jews think it can't happen here! |
IndianaGreen |
Jan-13-05 06:47 PM |
#144 |