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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. "...one nation, under God..."
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 04:10 PM by intheflow
We swear our presidents in on Bibles. There's a big creche waiting for a baby jesus on the lawn of the Colorado State House (bizarrely surrounded by snowmen). Our National Parks offer only Chrstian services to visitors vacationing during the summer. The Grand Canyon has bible quotes on placques in the park, but no quotes from other religions.

The US is far from secular.

Welcome to DU, passy.
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  -French Find New Ban on Religious Symbols Cuts Both Ways NNN0LHI  Dec-13-04 01:29 PM   #0 
  - I understand what  Maple   Dec-13-04 01:43 PM   #1 
  - Then help me understand....  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 02:47 PM   #14 
     - France is a secular society by law.  intheflow   Dec-13-04 04:04 PM   #32 
     - Sez it all here.  PsychoDad   Dec-14-04 05:40 AM   #64 
     - They are trying to discriminate against Muslims  AliciaKeyedUp   Dec-14-04 06:18 AM   #68 
        - The way I understood it  dolo amber   Dec-14-04 09:10 AM   #108 
           - If you follow the rest of the thread  AliciaKeyedUp   Dec-14-04 06:09 PM   #165 
  - Let them eat their candy crosses at home  SoCalDem   Dec-13-04 01:43 PM   #2 
  - Well....can't the original law just be wrong?  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 02:51 PM   #15 
  - That''s EXACTLY what I am for.  SoCalDem   Dec-13-04 02:58 PM   #17 
     - So you want to get rid of the First Amendment....or at least  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 03:00 PM   #18 
     - Nope.. I do not support the govt meddling in religion  SoCalDem   Dec-13-04 03:05 PM   #20 
        - But what about the government meddling in the "free exercise" ...  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 03:09 PM   #22 
           - Sorry.. no more verbal "leapfrog"  SoCalDem   Dec-13-04 03:19 PM   #24 
              - And geez, I thought it was a conversation.....where two people learn.  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 03:24 PM   #27 
     - I really don't care if its innocous or not.....  rinsd   Dec-13-04 04:02 PM   #31 
        - Agreed, Rinsd  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 04:08 PM   #33 
        - There is in FL. No bandanas. Not religious, secular, but a clothing  tsuki   Dec-13-04 09:19 PM   #55 
        - I wouldn't be so sure about that  Turley   Dec-14-04 06:02 AM   #67 
           - But France has more problems than the areas you mention.  tsuki   Dec-14-04 06:30 AM   #70 
           - But isn't it sad that what you imply is that religious diversity....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:29 AM   #72 
           - You made a blanket statement  Turley   Dec-14-04 07:32 AM   #74 
           - Your kids go to a private school? That's the point kind of.  genieroze   Dec-14-04 08:43 AM   #93 
           - No Typical German public school. nt  Turley   Dec-14-04 08:45 AM   #95 
           - I bet your kids school doesn't ban Muslim girls from wearing scarves. eom  genieroze   Dec-14-04 08:59 AM   #100 
              - No it doesn't  Turley   Dec-14-04 09:05 AM   #104 
                 - Excellent. Sounds inclusive not exclusive.  genieroze   Dec-14-04 09:09 AM   #107 
        - Agreed.  PsychoDad   Dec-14-04 05:42 AM   #65 
  - "the body of chirst" - "the body of christ" - "the body of christ"  TankLV   Dec-13-04 04:08 PM   #34 
  - Ummm...this is FRANCE, everybody  Squatch   Dec-14-04 07:48 AM   #79 
     - But most posters on this thread are expressing their wishes for the  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:53 AM   #82 
        - If you say so...  Squatch   Dec-14-04 07:55 AM   #84 
           - Ummm....again.....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:56 AM   #86 
              - Ummmmm....right....  Squatch   Dec-14-04 08:46 AM   #96 
                 - I was responding to his statement that ...  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 08:52 AM   #98 
  - That's what they get for  Radical Activist   Dec-13-04 01:47 PM   #3 
  - quite the contrary  Kellanved   Dec-13-04 04:15 PM   # 
  - Eating a cross? or St Nicholas?  daleo   Dec-13-04 01:50 PM   #4 
  - Uhmm.."Islamic head scarves, Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses"  CornField   Dec-13-04 01:54 PM   #5 
  - Visibility  Xithras   Dec-13-04 02:15 PM   #9 
     - So, in essence  manic expression   Dec-13-04 04:26 PM   #40 
  - This here is just too stupid to comment on!  passy   Dec-13-04 01:55 PM   #6 
  - It's the whole point of being a secular country.  SheilaT   Dec-13-04 02:08 PM   #7 
  - The US is not a secular country is it?  passy   Dec-13-04 02:14 PM   #8 
  - You got that right.  Flagg   Dec-13-04 02:18 PM   #10 
  - In God We Trust  downstairsparts   Dec-13-04 02:21 PM   #11 
  - In Elvis We Trust. n/t  VegasWolf   Dec-13-04 03:07 PM   #21 
  - "...one nation, under God..."  intheflow   Dec-13-04 04:09 PM   #35 
  - Well, yes Virginia, it is.  TankLV   Dec-13-04 04:13 PM   #36 
  - technically yes, we just don't always enforce the rules.  NuttyFluffers   Dec-13-04 09:40 PM   #56 
  - This is directed at private citizens.....  rinsd   Dec-13-04 03:24 PM   #26 
  - Agreed. This cross I have around my neck right now  Ms_Mary   Dec-14-04 08:51 AM   #97 
  - Are you saying that a secular country strips religion away from people?  cattleman22   Dec-14-04 12:21 PM   #136 
  - Ah, a dig at the French and a boost to religious zealotry  makhno   Dec-13-04 02:21 PM   #12 
  - Or Opium according to the father of communism.  passy   Dec-13-04 02:30 PM   #13 
  - Marxism not that bastard child communism. (nt)  rinsd   Dec-13-04 03:22 PM   #25 
  - So you would amend the First Amendment? n/t  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 02:56 PM   #16 
  - The French do not have a First Amendment...  Squatch   Dec-14-04 07:49 AM   #81 
     - And, as I said in post #82....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:54 AM   #83 
        - And like I said, if you say so, Bub.  Squatch   Dec-14-04 07:55 AM   #85 
  - If the government is to be truly separated from the "church"  hughee99   Dec-13-04 03:32 PM   #28 
  - You expressed yourself better that I could on this.  tx_dem41   Dec-13-04 03:36 PM   #29 
  - Excellent post (nt)  rinsd   Dec-13-04 04:20 PM   #39 
  - From a libertarian point of view, perhaps  makhno   Dec-13-04 06:01 PM   #48 
     - Since we are specifically talking about religion here  hughee99   Dec-13-04 06:25 PM   #51 
     - So religion is like pedophilia  AliciaKeyedUp   Dec-14-04 06:22 AM   #69 
     - The brush you wield is waaay too broad, IMO.  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:31 AM   #73 
     - Blind adherence is blind adherence....  rinsd   Dec-14-04 11:14 AM   #121 
  - Hard to believe the Founders were influenced by the French  brentspeak   Dec-13-04 08:34 PM   #54 
  - and the problem with banning all religious symbols is? does  VegasWolf   Dec-13-04 03:01 PM   #19 
  - If Jesus can appear on a grilled cheese, then why not French toast? n/t  daleo   Dec-13-04 03:18 PM   #23 
  - err, isn't that freedom toast? n/t  VegasWolf   Dec-13-04 05:00 PM   #43 
  - Excellent! What's good for one is good for the next.  leesa   Dec-13-04 03:42 PM   #30 
  - Or what's bad for one is bad for the next...  hughee99   Dec-13-04 04:19 PM   #38 
  - France's constitution does not guarantee free speech  yardwork   Dec-13-04 04:15 PM   #37 
  - pardon?  Kellanved   Dec-13-04 04:45 PM   #41 
  - No hate speech is not allowed because France has a history  Flagg   Dec-13-04 05:40 PM   #45 
     - Free speech, by my definition, includes hate speech  yardwork   Dec-14-04 03:47 PM   #162 
  - I guess bindis are out too  Mr. Sinister   Dec-13-04 04:53 PM   #42 
  - what makes you so upset?  Niccolo_Macchiavelli   Dec-13-04 05:26 PM   #44 
  - Okay  rinsd   Dec-13-04 05:42 PM   #46 
  - and never wear all black during the Inquisition. n/t  VegasWolf   Dec-13-04 05:51 PM   #47 
  - well  Niccolo_Macchiavelli   Dec-13-04 07:27 PM   #53 
  - Wrong.  Ms_Mary   Dec-14-04 09:01 AM   #101 
  - If you ban religion, how could those clowns that lead the flocks of sheep  VegasWolf   Dec-14-04 11:01 AM   #118 
  - OOOH, that's an interesting philosophical topic!  NuttyFluffers   Dec-13-04 09:54 PM   #57 
  - Interesting take....  rinsd   Dec-14-04 02:36 PM   #156 
     - in fact, you must say the same thing about gov't  NuttyFluffers   Dec-14-04 03:27 PM   #159 
  - French schools make French citizens  passy   Dec-14-04 01:46 AM   #58 
     - and U.S. schooling fabricates U. S. citizens  rodeodance   Dec-14-04 06:39 AM   #71 
        - Maybe growing individuals might be more constructive.  passy   Dec-14-04 12:13 PM   #135 
  - The only problem you have if you try that in the USA, is that pesky...  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:34 AM   #75 
  - At least the 1st allows us freedom FROM religion too. n/t  VegasWolf   Dec-14-04 11:05 AM   #119 
     - Well, let's take a look at the First Amendment.....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 11:27 AM   #125 
  - In some ways, the USA is still ahead.  Bridget Burke   Dec-16-04 03:00 PM   #166 
  - I think it's about trying not to have a divisive atmosphere  bloom   Dec-13-04 06:03 PM   #49 
  - Should it be the public schools goal  hughee99   Dec-14-04 02:07 AM   #59 
  - So it seems to me, that you are against diversity....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:36 AM   #76 
  - before passing judgment...  m0nkeyneck   Dec-13-04 06:25 PM   #50 
  - The law is not wrong just because such a joke happened in a...  BonjourUSA   Dec-13-04 06:58 PM   #52 
  - The law is right.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 04:26 AM   #60 
     - The "Land of the Free" isn't.  Nihil   Dec-14-04 05:13 AM   #61 
     - Yes, I have no problem with oppression of personal freedoms....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:45 AM   #78 
     - Just who are you talking about?  Turley   Dec-14-04 05:18 AM   #63 
     - I see them in the pedestrian zones of every large city.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 07:49 AM   #80 
        - So have I  Turley   Dec-14-04 08:16 AM   #89 
           - Haven't seen the Africans on the Zeil but everytime I'm there  neweurope   Dec-14-04 08:44 AM   #94 
              - That's amazing  Turley   Dec-14-04 08:56 AM   #99 
                 - No, I'm not wanting to talk crap about Americans.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 09:04 AM   #103 
                    - "And suppose that they've been infected by Americans."  Turley   Dec-14-04 09:07 AM   #105 
                       - That has nothing to do with prejudice but with experience *sigh*  neweurope   Dec-14-04 09:12 AM   #109 
                          - Well it started with this:  Turley   Dec-14-04 10:20 AM   #113 
                             - But I am worrying about mine. That's one of the reasons why yours  neweurope   Dec-14-04 10:32 AM   #116 
                                - Was that supposed to be  Turley   Dec-14-04 03:21 PM   #157 
                                   - If you prefer to think so.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 03:29 PM   #160 
                                      - I call B.S. when I see it  Turley   Dec-14-04 03:34 PM   #161 
     - Isn't a sidewalk a public place as well?  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 07:43 AM   #77 
     - "I am obsessed about my own personal freedom. "  rinsd   Dec-14-04 12:08 PM   #133 
        - I would be honored, Rinsd. n/t  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 12:09 PM   #134 
     - The law bans Orthodox Jews, religious Muslims, and ohers...  ArthurDent   Dec-14-04 09:04 AM   #102 
  - There was another alternative they didn't think of:  Swamp Rat   Dec-14-04 05:15 AM   #62 
  - Ideologically, I'd fit in well with the French  Selatius   Dec-14-04 05:52 AM   #66 
  - I really do not think we have to worry about the French of all people *g*  neweurope   Dec-14-04 08:01 AM   #87 
  - But you never address (in this post) the distinction between the state  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 08:13 AM   #88 
  - another personal freedom issue  termo   Dec-14-04 08:34 AM   #91 
     - So lets bring this back to the USA for a second....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 08:41 AM   #92 
        - But you CAN wear a religious symbol in public in France.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 09:08 AM   #106 
        - Ummm...I realize that.  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 09:15 AM   #110 
        - peace of cake  termo   Dec-14-04 09:16 AM   #111 
  - Heh heh, funny you should mention peyote....  countryjake   Dec-14-04 10:07 AM   #112 
     - I liked your post very much but I truly see no double standard here.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 10:22 AM   #114 
        - there is one big double standard  termo   Dec-14-04 10:29 AM   #115 
        - Really? Sounds strange. I have to read up on this.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 10:48 AM   #117 
           - strange historic double standard.  termo   Dec-14-04 11:08 AM   #120 
              - Thank you!  neweurope   Dec-14-04 11:15 AM   #122 
                 - you are welcome  termo   Dec-14-04 11:18 AM   #124 
                    - No, I'm not sure I've been through there.  neweurope   Dec-14-04 12:57 PM   #140 
        - Same problem here in the US...  countryjake   Dec-14-04 11:15 AM   #123 
        - A German having faith in the French. (and vice versa) ...  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 11:34 AM   #126 
           - Hey tx_dem41 !!  countryjake   Dec-14-04 11:39 AM   #127 
              - Yes....by "the government"....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 11:43 AM   #128 
                 - Know anything about "the wall of separation"??  countryjake   Dec-14-04 11:47 AM   #129 
                    - Yes, I know about the wall of separation....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 11:51 AM   #130 
                       - Google it yourself.  countryjake   Dec-14-04 12:24 PM   #137 
                          - I am assuming you mean Santa Fe ISD vs. Doe...lets see what they said...  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 12:45 PM   #139 
                             - No, this...  countryjake   Dec-14-04 01:07 PM   #141 
                                - I don't believe you read that correctly....from an FSU Law school site...  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 01:22 PM   #144 
                                   - What does this say?  countryjake   Dec-14-04 01:41 PM   #147 
                                      - Okay I got it....  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 01:51 PM   #149 
  - Please educate yourself before you post  RuleofLaw   Dec-14-04 08:32 AM   #90 
  - Article 9 is worthless....  rinsd   Dec-14-04 12:05 PM   #131 
     - Wow...clause 2 in Article 9 is a real killer...  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 12:08 PM   #132 
     - You are right, article 2 is a strange concept  cattleman22   Dec-14-04 12:25 PM   #138 
        - No it does not  RuleofLaw   Dec-14-04 01:15 PM   #143 
        - It still leaves loopholes you can drive a mack truck through...  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 01:28 PM   #146 
        - That's the thing about government....  rinsd   Dec-14-04 02:22 PM   #154 
        - yeah its hard when one can't air ones view 24/7  Niccolo_Macchiavelli   Dec-14-04 01:49 PM   #148 
           - If what you say was SC precedent, why would the following FSU law  tx_dem41   Dec-14-04 01:55 PM   #150 
           - "yeah its hard when one can't air ones view 24/7"  rinsd   Dec-14-04 02:18 PM   #152 
           - lets see if i can put this in english (still nnew)  Niccolo_Macchiavelli   Dec-14-04 04:45 PM   #163 
              - I don't think you're a freeper.....  rinsd   Dec-14-04 05:51 PM   #164 
                 - i'll try to bring my point across witha metaphor then  Niccolo_Macchiavelli   Dec-16-04 04:53 PM   #167 
                 - I don't think it's "anti-religion" as much as it's  SoCalDem   Dec-16-04 05:16 PM   #168 
           - Freedoms end when the rights of others are violated.  cattleman22   Dec-14-04 02:19 PM   #153 
     - For your information  RuleofLaw   Dec-14-04 01:27 PM   #145 
        - So you cherrypick one aspect?  rinsd   Dec-14-04 02:10 PM   #151 
  - WHAT IS OUR FRENCH REALITY ABOUT THIS ISSUE ?? Quick responses :  BonjourUSA   Dec-14-04 01:10 PM   #142 
     - I don't think its an awful freedom killer.  rinsd   Dec-14-04 02:29 PM   #155 
        - We live very very well like that for two hundred years  BonjourUSA   Dec-14-04 03:22 PM   #158 
 

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