rinsd
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Mon Dec-13-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
| 31. I really don't care if its innocous or not..... |
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For a government to tell its citizens what they can and can't wear in public regarding religion only(I don't believe there's any state law regarding jeans or berets) is a bunch of bullshit.
It has nothing to do with separation of church and state, its about the limitation of free expression in terms of one's religion. Now this is France so obviously our 1st amendment doesn't apply. But that doesn't dismay me any less that any government would take such an action.
Is it the end of the world? Of course not. But it certainly isn't what I would consider a blow for freedom.
|
| -French Find New Ban on Religious Symbols Cuts Both Ways |
NNN0LHI |
Dec-13-04 01:29 PM |
#0 |
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I understand what |
Maple |
Dec-13-04 01:43 PM |
#1 |
  -
Then help me understand.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 02:47 PM |
#14 |
| -
France is a secular society by law. |
intheflow |
Dec-13-04 04:04 PM |
#32 |
| -
Sez it all here. |
PsychoDad |
Dec-14-04 05:40 AM |
#64 |
| -
They are trying to discriminate against Muslims |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Dec-14-04 06:18 AM |
#68 |
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The way I understood it |
dolo amber |
Dec-14-04 09:10 AM |
#108 |
| -
If you follow the rest of the thread |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Dec-14-04 06:09 PM |
#165 |
| -
Let them eat their candy crosses at home |
SoCalDem |
Dec-13-04 01:43 PM |
#2 |
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Well....can't the original law just be wrong? |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 02:51 PM |
#15 |
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That''s EXACTLY what I am for. |
SoCalDem |
Dec-13-04 02:58 PM |
#17 |
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So you want to get rid of the First Amendment....or at least |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 03:00 PM |
#18 |
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Nope.. I do not support the govt meddling in religion |
SoCalDem |
Dec-13-04 03:05 PM |
#20 |
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But what about the government meddling in the "free exercise" ... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 03:09 PM |
#22 |
| -
Sorry.. no more verbal "leapfrog" |
SoCalDem |
Dec-13-04 03:19 PM |
#24 |
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And geez, I thought it was a conversation.....where two people learn. |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 03:24 PM |
#27 |
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I really don't care if its innocous or not..... |
rinsd |
Dec-13-04 04:02 PM |
#31 |
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Agreed, Rinsd |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 04:08 PM |
#33 |
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There is in FL. No bandanas. Not religious, secular, but a clothing |
tsuki |
Dec-13-04 09:19 PM |
#55 |
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I wouldn't be so sure about that |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 06:02 AM |
#67 |
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But France has more problems than the areas you mention. |
tsuki |
Dec-14-04 06:30 AM |
#70 |
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But isn't it sad that what you imply is that religious diversity.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:29 AM |
#72 |
| -
You made a blanket statement |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 07:32 AM |
#74 |
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Your kids go to a private school? That's the point kind of. |
genieroze |
Dec-14-04 08:43 AM |
#93 |
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No Typical German public school. nt |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 08:45 AM |
#95 |
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I bet your kids school doesn't ban Muslim girls from wearing scarves. eom |
genieroze |
Dec-14-04 08:59 AM |
#100 |
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No it doesn't |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 09:05 AM |
#104 |
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Excellent. Sounds inclusive not exclusive. |
genieroze |
Dec-14-04 09:09 AM |
#107 |
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Agreed. |
PsychoDad |
Dec-14-04 05:42 AM |
#65 |
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"the body of chirst" - "the body of christ" - "the body of christ" |
TankLV |
Dec-13-04 04:08 PM |
#34 |
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Ummm...this is FRANCE, everybody |
Squatch |
Dec-14-04 07:48 AM |
#79 |
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But most posters on this thread are expressing their wishes for the |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:53 AM |
#82 |
| -
If you say so... |
Squatch |
Dec-14-04 07:55 AM |
#84 |
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Ummm....again..... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:56 AM |
#86 |
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Ummmmm....right.... |
Squatch |
Dec-14-04 08:46 AM |
#96 |
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I was responding to his statement that ... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 08:52 AM |
#98 |
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That's what they get for |
Radical Activist |
Dec-13-04 01:47 PM |
#3 |
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quite the contrary |
Kellanved |
Dec-13-04 04:15 PM |
# |
| -
Eating a cross? or St Nicholas? |
daleo |
Dec-13-04 01:50 PM |
#4 |
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Uhmm.."Islamic head scarves, Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses" |
CornField |
Dec-13-04 01:54 PM |
#5 |
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Visibility |
Xithras |
Dec-13-04 02:15 PM |
#9 |
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So, in essence |
manic expression |
Dec-13-04 04:26 PM |
#40 |
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This here is just too stupid to comment on! |
passy |
Dec-13-04 01:55 PM |
#6 |
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It's the whole point of being a secular country. |
SheilaT |
Dec-13-04 02:08 PM |
#7 |
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The US is not a secular country is it? |
passy |
Dec-13-04 02:14 PM |
#8 |
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You got that right. |
Flagg |
Dec-13-04 02:18 PM |
#10 |
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In God We Trust |
downstairsparts |
Dec-13-04 02:21 PM |
#11 |
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In Elvis We Trust. n/t |
VegasWolf |
Dec-13-04 03:07 PM |
#21 |
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"...one nation, under God..." |
intheflow |
Dec-13-04 04:09 PM |
#35 |
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Well, yes Virginia, it is. |
TankLV |
Dec-13-04 04:13 PM |
#36 |
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technically yes, we just don't always enforce the rules. |
NuttyFluffers |
Dec-13-04 09:40 PM |
#56 |
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This is directed at private citizens..... |
rinsd |
Dec-13-04 03:24 PM |
#26 |
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Agreed. This cross I have around my neck right now |
Ms_Mary |
Dec-14-04 08:51 AM |
#97 |
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Are you saying that a secular country strips religion away from people? |
cattleman22 |
Dec-14-04 12:21 PM |
#136 |
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Ah, a dig at the French and a boost to religious zealotry |
makhno |
Dec-13-04 02:21 PM |
#12 |
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Or Opium according to the father of communism. |
passy |
Dec-13-04 02:30 PM |
#13 |
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Marxism not that bastard child communism. (nt) |
rinsd |
Dec-13-04 03:22 PM |
#25 |
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So you would amend the First Amendment? n/t |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 02:56 PM |
#16 |
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The French do not have a First Amendment... |
Squatch |
Dec-14-04 07:49 AM |
#81 |
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And, as I said in post #82.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:54 AM |
#83 |
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And like I said, if you say so, Bub. |
Squatch |
Dec-14-04 07:55 AM |
#85 |
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If the government is to be truly separated from the "church" |
hughee99 |
Dec-13-04 03:32 PM |
#28 |
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You expressed yourself better that I could on this. |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-13-04 03:36 PM |
#29 |
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Excellent post (nt) |
rinsd |
Dec-13-04 04:20 PM |
#39 |
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From a libertarian point of view, perhaps |
makhno |
Dec-13-04 06:01 PM |
#48 |
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Since we are specifically talking about religion here |
hughee99 |
Dec-13-04 06:25 PM |
#51 |
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So religion is like pedophilia |
AliciaKeyedUp |
Dec-14-04 06:22 AM |
#69 |
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The brush you wield is waaay too broad, IMO. |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:31 AM |
#73 |
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Blind adherence is blind adherence.... |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 11:14 AM |
#121 |
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Hard to believe the Founders were influenced by the French |
brentspeak |
Dec-13-04 08:34 PM |
#54 |
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and the problem with banning all religious symbols is? does |
VegasWolf |
Dec-13-04 03:01 PM |
#19 |
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If Jesus can appear on a grilled cheese, then why not French toast? n/t |
daleo |
Dec-13-04 03:18 PM |
#23 |
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err, isn't that freedom toast? n/t |
VegasWolf |
Dec-13-04 05:00 PM |
#43 |
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Excellent! What's good for one is good for the next. |
leesa |
Dec-13-04 03:42 PM |
#30 |
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Or what's bad for one is bad for the next... |
hughee99 |
Dec-13-04 04:19 PM |
#38 |
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France's constitution does not guarantee free speech |
yardwork |
Dec-13-04 04:15 PM |
#37 |
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pardon? |
Kellanved |
Dec-13-04 04:45 PM |
#41 |
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No hate speech is not allowed because France has a history |
Flagg |
Dec-13-04 05:40 PM |
#45 |
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Free speech, by my definition, includes hate speech |
yardwork |
Dec-14-04 03:47 PM |
#162 |
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I guess bindis are out too |
Mr. Sinister |
Dec-13-04 04:53 PM |
#42 |
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what makes you so upset? |
Niccolo_Macchiavelli |
Dec-13-04 05:26 PM |
#44 |
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Okay |
rinsd |
Dec-13-04 05:42 PM |
#46 |
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and never wear all black during the Inquisition. n/t |
VegasWolf |
Dec-13-04 05:51 PM |
#47 |
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well |
Niccolo_Macchiavelli |
Dec-13-04 07:27 PM |
#53 |
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Wrong. |
Ms_Mary |
Dec-14-04 09:01 AM |
#101 |
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If you ban religion, how could those clowns that lead the flocks of sheep |
VegasWolf |
Dec-14-04 11:01 AM |
#118 |
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OOOH, that's an interesting philosophical topic! |
NuttyFluffers |
Dec-13-04 09:54 PM |
#57 |
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Interesting take.... |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 02:36 PM |
#156 |
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in fact, you must say the same thing about gov't |
NuttyFluffers |
Dec-14-04 03:27 PM |
#159 |
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French schools make French citizens |
passy |
Dec-14-04 01:46 AM |
#58 |
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and U.S. schooling fabricates U. S. citizens |
rodeodance |
Dec-14-04 06:39 AM |
#71 |
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Maybe growing individuals might be more constructive. |
passy |
Dec-14-04 12:13 PM |
#135 |
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The only problem you have if you try that in the USA, is that pesky... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:34 AM |
#75 |
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At least the 1st allows us freedom FROM religion too. n/t |
VegasWolf |
Dec-14-04 11:05 AM |
#119 |
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Well, let's take a look at the First Amendment..... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 11:27 AM |
#125 |
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In some ways, the USA is still ahead. |
Bridget Burke |
Dec-16-04 03:00 PM |
#166 |
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I think it's about trying not to have a divisive atmosphere |
bloom |
Dec-13-04 06:03 PM |
#49 |
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Should it be the public schools goal |
hughee99 |
Dec-14-04 02:07 AM |
#59 |
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So it seems to me, that you are against diversity.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:36 AM |
#76 |
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before passing judgment... |
m0nkeyneck |
Dec-13-04 06:25 PM |
#50 |
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The law is not wrong just because such a joke happened in a... |
BonjourUSA |
Dec-13-04 06:58 PM |
#52 |
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The law is right. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 04:26 AM |
#60 |
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The "Land of the Free" isn't. |
Nihil |
Dec-14-04 05:13 AM |
#61 |
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Yes, I have no problem with oppression of personal freedoms.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:45 AM |
#78 |
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Just who are you talking about? |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 05:18 AM |
#63 |
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I see them in the pedestrian zones of every large city. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 07:49 AM |
#80 |
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So have I |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 08:16 AM |
#89 |
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Haven't seen the Africans on the Zeil but everytime I'm there |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 08:44 AM |
#94 |
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That's amazing |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 08:56 AM |
#99 |
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No, I'm not wanting to talk crap about Americans. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 09:04 AM |
#103 |
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"And suppose that they've been infected by Americans." |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 09:07 AM |
#105 |
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That has nothing to do with prejudice but with experience *sigh* |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 09:12 AM |
#109 |
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Well it started with this: |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 10:20 AM |
#113 |
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But I am worrying about mine. That's one of the reasons why yours |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 10:32 AM |
#116 |
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Was that supposed to be |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 03:21 PM |
#157 |
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If you prefer to think so. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 03:29 PM |
#160 |
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I call B.S. when I see it |
Turley |
Dec-14-04 03:34 PM |
#161 |
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Isn't a sidewalk a public place as well? |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 07:43 AM |
#77 |
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"I am obsessed about my own personal freedom. " |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 12:08 PM |
#133 |
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I would be honored, Rinsd. n/t |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 12:09 PM |
#134 |
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The law bans Orthodox Jews, religious Muslims, and ohers... |
ArthurDent |
Dec-14-04 09:04 AM |
#102 |
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There was another alternative they didn't think of: |
Swamp Rat |
Dec-14-04 05:15 AM |
#62 |
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Ideologically, I'd fit in well with the French |
Selatius |
Dec-14-04 05:52 AM |
#66 |
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I really do not think we have to worry about the French of all people *g* |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 08:01 AM |
#87 |
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But you never address (in this post) the distinction between the state |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 08:13 AM |
#88 |
| -
another personal freedom issue |
termo |
Dec-14-04 08:34 AM |
#91 |
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So lets bring this back to the USA for a second.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 08:41 AM |
#92 |
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But you CAN wear a religious symbol in public in France. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 09:08 AM |
#106 |
| -
Ummm...I realize that. |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 09:15 AM |
#110 |
| -
peace of cake |
termo |
Dec-14-04 09:16 AM |
#111 |
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Heh heh, funny you should mention peyote.... |
countryjake |
Dec-14-04 10:07 AM |
#112 |
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I liked your post very much but I truly see no double standard here. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 10:22 AM |
#114 |
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there is one big double standard |
termo |
Dec-14-04 10:29 AM |
#115 |
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Really? Sounds strange. I have to read up on this. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 10:48 AM |
#117 |
| -
strange historic double standard. |
termo |
Dec-14-04 11:08 AM |
#120 |
| -
Thank you! |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 11:15 AM |
#122 |
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you are welcome |
termo |
Dec-14-04 11:18 AM |
#124 |
| -
No, I'm not sure I've been through there. |
neweurope |
Dec-14-04 12:57 PM |
#140 |
| -
Same problem here in the US... |
countryjake |
Dec-14-04 11:15 AM |
#123 |
| -
A German having faith in the French. (and vice versa) ... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 11:34 AM |
#126 |
| -
Hey tx_dem41 !! |
countryjake |
Dec-14-04 11:39 AM |
#127 |
| -
Yes....by "the government".... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 11:43 AM |
#128 |
| -
Know anything about "the wall of separation"?? |
countryjake |
Dec-14-04 11:47 AM |
#129 |
| -
Yes, I know about the wall of separation.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 11:51 AM |
#130 |
| -
Google it yourself. |
countryjake |
Dec-14-04 12:24 PM |
#137 |
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I am assuming you mean Santa Fe ISD vs. Doe...lets see what they said... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 12:45 PM |
#139 |
| -
No, this... |
countryjake |
Dec-14-04 01:07 PM |
#141 |
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I don't believe you read that correctly....from an FSU Law school site... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 01:22 PM |
#144 |
| -
What does this say? |
countryjake |
Dec-14-04 01:41 PM |
#147 |
| -
Okay I got it.... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 01:51 PM |
#149 |
| -
Please educate yourself before you post |
RuleofLaw |
Dec-14-04 08:32 AM |
#90 |
| -
Article 9 is worthless.... |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 12:05 PM |
#131 |
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Wow...clause 2 in Article 9 is a real killer... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 12:08 PM |
#132 |
| -
You are right, article 2 is a strange concept |
cattleman22 |
Dec-14-04 12:25 PM |
#138 |
| -
No it does not |
RuleofLaw |
Dec-14-04 01:15 PM |
#143 |
| -
It still leaves loopholes you can drive a mack truck through... |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 01:28 PM |
#146 |
| -
That's the thing about government.... |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 02:22 PM |
#154 |
| -
yeah its hard when one can't air ones view 24/7 |
Niccolo_Macchiavelli |
Dec-14-04 01:49 PM |
#148 |
| -
If what you say was SC precedent, why would the following FSU law |
tx_dem41 |
Dec-14-04 01:55 PM |
#150 |
| -
"yeah its hard when one can't air ones view 24/7" |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 02:18 PM |
#152 |
| -
lets see if i can put this in english (still nnew) |
Niccolo_Macchiavelli |
Dec-14-04 04:45 PM |
#163 |
| -
I don't think you're a freeper..... |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 05:51 PM |
#164 |
| -
i'll try to bring my point across witha metaphor then |
Niccolo_Macchiavelli |
Dec-16-04 04:53 PM |
#167 |
| -
I don't think it's "anti-religion" as much as it's |
SoCalDem |
Dec-16-04 05:16 PM |
#168 |
| -
Freedoms end when the rights of others are violated. |
cattleman22 |
Dec-14-04 02:19 PM |
#153 |
| -
For your information |
RuleofLaw |
Dec-14-04 01:27 PM |
#145 |
| -
So you cherrypick one aspect? |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 02:10 PM |
#151 |
| -
WHAT IS OUR FRENCH REALITY ABOUT THIS ISSUE ?? Quick responses : |
BonjourUSA |
Dec-14-04 01:10 PM |
#142 |
| -
I don't think its an awful freedom killer. |
rinsd |
Dec-14-04 02:29 PM |
#155 |
| -
We live very very well like that for two hundred years |
BonjourUSA |
Dec-14-04 03:22 PM |
#158 |
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