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Reply #66: I don't claim to know anything about medicine [View All]

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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. I don't claim to know anything about medicine
I would think babies could take smaller doses of pain medication rather than being "flooded" as you say, but I claim no knowledge in the subject.
I responded to what I saw as a very callous statement by the person who said "people get tired of the screaming"--as though it was about convenience rather than the well being of the child.
This is a very difficult moral question, and each case needs to be judged by the family in question.
I do believe all life as value, even if it is a very short life. And whether euthanasia is appropriate depends on the circumstances.
There are families, however, who have abortions because the child is going to have downs syndrome, some other defect, or they simply want a child of a different sex. I don't think such things can be legislated, but I know they are profoundly immoral.
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  -Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies theearthisround  Nov-30-04 02:00 PM   #0 
  - More red meat for the fundie brigade.  trotsky   Nov-30-04 02:06 PM   #1 
  - I think they care only if it's still a fetus.  Fridays Child   Nov-30-04 02:41 PM   #16 
  - this is what bob barber warned us about  sniffa   Nov-30-04 02:07 PM   #2 
  - difficult subject  Monkie   Nov-30-04 02:19 PM   #3 
  - When they came for the child I did not protest....I was not a child.  Komrade _azul   Nov-30-04 02:25 PM   #4 
  - Well said  tom II   Nov-30-04 02:29 PM   #6 
  - We do the same thing in the US, but not 'officially'  htuttle   Nov-30-04 02:34 PM   #10 
  - Get the facts straight: murder vs nature  tom II   Nov-30-04 03:07 PM   #36 
  - The parents are involved in this decision  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 03:15 PM   #39 
  - I don't think so  hyphenate   Nov-30-04 04:53 PM   #68 
  - So, you would rather see humans suffer a painful death, but it's okay...  Media_Lies_Daily   Nov-30-04 05:51 PM   #90 
  - Get the facts straight - LOL...  rooboy   Nov-30-04 05:52 PM   #91 
  - You took the words right out of my mouth  Scairp   Nov-30-04 06:47 PM   #109 
  - God doesn't discriminate among the species.  jdj   Nov-30-04 06:06 PM   #94 
  - I know this thread is more about human beings...  Andromeda   Dec-01-04 03:40 AM   #189 
  - Right...human babies should be allowed to suffer to death.  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 07:25 PM   #114 
  - Slippery slope? Try telling me I can't relieve the pain  BUSHOUT   Nov-30-04 07:45 PM   #117 
  - Yes. We are more humane to our pets. Would you rather a suffering child  saracat   Nov-30-04 08:34 PM   #124 
  - I watched my husband's uncle  Andromeda   Dec-01-04 03:51 AM   #190 
  - morphine speeds along nature's course in US hospitals  rodeodance   Dec-01-04 02:20 PM   #211 
  - There is a difference between being active and being passive.  hedgehog   Nov-30-04 09:05 PM   #133 
     - Uh-huh  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 10:53 PM   #164 
  - I don't understand  tkmorris   Nov-30-04 02:37 PM   #13 
  - Wow tom  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 02:52 PM   #24 
  - He sure is.  Zhade   Nov-30-04 05:48 PM   #89 
  - Come on....  purduejake   Nov-30-04 02:52 PM   #25 
  - Oh for Chrissake, what utter nonsense.  bobbyboucher   Nov-30-04 05:06 PM   #72 
  - Well...that's two seconds I'll never get back.  Media_Lies_Daily   Nov-30-04 05:53 PM   #92 
     - LOL  JohnLocke   Nov-30-04 09:39 PM   #149 
  - How do you feel about bombing infants?  htuttle   Nov-30-04 02:29 PM   #7 
  - Good point htuttle  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 03:02 PM   #33 
  - I'm against both.  wicket   Nov-30-04 06:33 PM   #106 
  - Terminal illness and disability  loyalsister   Nov-30-04 02:30 PM   #8 
  - Down's Syndrome is not a terminal disease  Tempest   Nov-30-04 02:32 PM   #9 
  - Ever see a child die from a long illness?  GinaMaria   Nov-30-04 02:40 PM   #14 
  - This is a valid point. Not actively extending a life is completely  lindashaw   Nov-30-04 03:10 PM   #37 
     - This was a common occurance on our unit  GinaMaria   Nov-30-04 03:25 PM   #41 
        - Good comment!  xpunkisneatx   Nov-30-04 10:24 PM   #159 
        - and in my unit  rodeodance   Dec-01-04 02:24 PM   #213 
  - Overreacting? terminally ill = sick and WILL die no matter what doctors do  w4rma   Nov-30-04 02:49 PM   #22 
  - I just went though a year with four beloved old pets dying.  hedgehog   Nov-30-04 09:00 PM   #131 
  - I agree-this is not pulling the plug, this is actively killing  noonwitch   Nov-30-04 02:49 PM   #23 
  - I thought we were talking about terminally ill  purduejake   Nov-30-04 02:55 PM   #27 
  - They are NOT talking about  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 02:54 PM   #26 
  - Great Points, Starlight.  Anakin Skywalker   Nov-30-04 06:27 PM   #101 
  - Give me a break.  Sterling   Nov-30-04 02:59 PM   #30 
  - Let's see  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 03:02 PM   #32 
  - I am generally highly skeptical of euthanasia  American Tragedy   Nov-30-04 03:47 PM   #52 
  - Where exactly is the line drawn between mercy and murder?  hyphenate   Nov-30-04 05:10 PM   #75 
  - You use common sense  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 10:56 PM   #165 
  - Agreed... Skeptical is good...  George_S   Dec-01-04 01:09 PM   #207 
  - I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. People in pain and in a  VegasWolf   Nov-30-04 04:02 PM   #58 
  - You know what terminally ill means?  Lu Kang   Nov-30-04 04:07 PM   #61 
  - Oh yes!  hyphenate   Nov-30-04 05:14 PM   #78 
     - I think Lu Kang was being sarcastic (nm)  popovfan   Dec-01-04 03:10 AM   #188 
  - I agree with you.  wicket   Nov-30-04 06:32 PM   #104 
  - "WEAK"??? "WEED OUT"????  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 07:36 PM   #115 
     - Yes, I do know how to read  wicket   Nov-30-04 08:43 PM   #125 
        - Then READ the article FIRST  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 08:52 PM   #128 
           - I READ the article first!  wicket   Nov-30-04 08:58 PM   #130 
              - You were commenting on the Dutch and the article, and NOWHERE  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 09:08 PM   #135 
                 - Very good arguments Lynn, I wish I had your patience! n/t  VegasWolf   Nov-30-04 09:12 PM   #137 
                 - Thanks  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 09:18 PM   #142 
                 - I was referring to the part about the severely mentally retarded  wicket   Nov-30-04 09:22 PM   #143 
                    - Dutch law;  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 09:33 PM   #148 
                    - And severely mentally retarded  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 10:58 PM   #166 
  - Yes we should allow suffering babies to keep suffering until they die  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 07:22 PM   #113 
  - Down's Syndrome is not a terminal illness. Nor is paralysis.  Flammable Materials   Nov-30-04 09:33 PM   #147 
  - Exaggerate much? Try reading the article next time.  RetroLounge   Nov-30-04 10:27 PM   #160 
  - For mercy killings of terminally ill newborns  genieroze   Nov-30-04 11:10 PM   #172 
  - Nothing new at all  SoCalDem   Nov-30-04 02:26 PM   #5 
  - Not cutting the cord won't do anything  gaia_gardener   Nov-30-04 02:35 PM   #11 
  - Thanks for clearing that up!  LeftyMom   Nov-30-04 11:20 PM   #176 
  - The Nazis did stuff like this in the 1930s and 1940s  David Dunham   Nov-30-04 02:40 PM   #15 
  - Yes, of course  htuttle   Nov-30-04 02:41 PM   #17 
  - and that's the problem...  Solitaire   Nov-30-04 02:48 PM   #20 
  - Amazing how non of that is going on....  Sterling   Nov-30-04 02:55 PM   #28 
  - THEY'RE NAZIS!!!!!!!!!! THEY'RE NAZIS!!!!!!!!!!  bobbyboucher   Nov-30-04 05:08 PM   #73 
  - It wasn't just the Nazis  hedgehog   Nov-30-04 09:17 PM   #140 
     - I think you need to back up a bit here.  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 11:01 PM   #168 
  - I think you mean  plan9_pub   Nov-30-04 02:43 PM   #18 
     - Just repeated what a doctor told us once..  SoCalDem   Nov-30-04 02:47 PM   #19 
        - Unfortunately  hyphenate   Nov-30-04 05:22 PM   #82 
  - It sounds to me like they've got a good handle on things  GliderGuider   Nov-30-04 02:35 PM   #12 
  - I agree...  purduejake   Nov-30-04 02:56 PM   #29 
  - Ah, a voice of sanity  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 03:03 PM   #34 
  - In less than  Ima   Nov-30-04 04:12 PM   #64 
  - Parents  sandnsea   Nov-30-04 03:32 PM   #44 
  - Here's the quote about parents - it's easy to overlook  GliderGuider   Nov-30-04 05:24 PM   #84 
  - I agree, and it IS excruciating.  DemExpat   Nov-30-04 03:45 PM   #50 
     - Excrutiating  sandnsea   Nov-30-04 06:08 PM   #95 
  - U.S. blames it on legal marijuana in 4, 3, 2, ..  DS1   Nov-30-04 02:48 PM   #21 
  - It's usually even worse than what you described  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 03:05 PM   #35 
  - Now let's look at this quote from the article:  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 03:00 PM   #31 
  - You put pets to sleep; not human beings.  tom II   Nov-30-04 03:10 PM   #38 
     - Not as awful...  htuttle   Nov-30-04 03:17 PM   #40 
     - WHY DO YOU KEEP REPEATING THAT!!  ExclamationPoint   Nov-30-04 03:32 PM   #43 
     - He repeats that because...  Anakin Skywalker   Nov-30-04 06:31 PM   #103 
     - No, you just increase the morphine drip.  Bridget Burke   Nov-30-04 03:40 PM   #47 
     - Oh yeah, my 96 y.o. uncle died of continuous ... increase in  ElectroPrincess   Nov-30-04 03:59 PM   #57 
        - I was given morphine  Karenina   Nov-30-04 06:01 PM   #93 
           - opiates do not work for some people  GinaMaria   Dec-01-04 10:38 AM   #199 
     - You must be a religious nutcake, what rational reason could you  VegasWolf   Nov-30-04 04:10 PM   #62 
     - And thank god that we can put pets to sleep  CAcyclist   Nov-30-04 05:02 PM   #70 
     - Yes, it would be a tough moral call ...  ElectroPrincess   Dec-01-04 06:39 AM   #193 
     - More horseshit.  bobbyboucher   Nov-30-04 05:11 PM   #76 
     - The saying, "Out of the woodwork", comes to mind.  Auntie Bush   Nov-30-04 05:28 PM   #85 
     - So you would prefer...  purduejake   Nov-30-04 06:17 PM   #97 
     - The Netherlands happens to have a higher  saracat   Nov-30-04 08:47 PM   #127 
     - Yeah. I hear they do a lot of drugs and I even think I heard  smirkymonkey   Nov-30-04 10:36 PM   #162 
     - Glad to see you've been tombstoned  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 11:03 PM   #169 
     - Why in the world would  FlaGranny   Dec-01-04 12:22 AM   #182 
     - Yeah, we make sure the human suffers just like Jays'us, 'eh?  0007   Dec-01-04 02:20 PM   #212 
  - Awful  imenja   Nov-30-04 03:27 PM   #42 
  - People get tired of the screaming...  Bridget Burke   Nov-30-04 03:38 PM   #45 
  - If they are in pain, give them pain killers  imenja   Nov-30-04 03:44 PM   #49 
     - Yes, but "technically" you did allow a mercy suicide  ElectroPrincess   Nov-30-04 03:52 PM   #55 
     - he had a living will  imenja   Dec-01-04 12:09 AM   #180 
        - He didn't have to die screaming in pain.  Bridget Burke   Dec-01-04 07:06 AM   #195 
           - try reading before you pass judgment  imenja   Dec-01-04 02:05 PM   #208 
     - That's usually the same thing  lastliberalintexas   Nov-30-04 04:02 PM   #59 
     - Are you for real?  Lu Kang   Nov-30-04 04:12 PM   #63 
     - I don't claim to know anything about medicine  imenja   Nov-30-04 04:27 PM   #66 
     - How histrionic can you get?  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 11:05 PM   #170 
     - No, I put my Old English Sheepdog (OES) "to sleep"  ElectroPrincess   Dec-01-04 06:57 AM   #194 
  - Have you ever seen anyone who was terminally ill?  lastliberalintexas   Nov-30-04 03:46 PM   #51 
  - yes  imenja   Nov-30-04 03:50 PM   #54 
     - Um, *terminal* illness  lastliberalintexas   Nov-30-04 03:58 PM   #56 
     - death is unpleasant  imenja   Nov-30-04 04:48 PM   #67 
     - I don't know if I should write this or not  lastliberalintexas   Nov-30-04 05:43 PM   #87 
     - I am very offended  imenja   Nov-30-04 06:21 PM   #99 
        - I'm not judging how you and your  lastliberalintexas   Nov-30-04 06:36 PM   #108 
           - . . .  imenja   Nov-30-04 06:56 PM   #110 
              - you're just all over the place  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 08:00 PM   #119 
                 - of course not  imenja   Nov-30-04 11:15 PM   #174 
                    - Actually trying to understand your point/s  Puglover   Dec-01-04 12:02 PM   #201 
                       - perhaps so  imenja   Dec-01-04 02:09 PM   #209 
     - I wasn't going to respond to this but...  CatBoreal   Nov-30-04 08:26 PM   #121 
        - I don't disagree  imenja   Dec-01-04 12:00 AM   #179 
     - All Life is terminal...  420inTN   Nov-30-04 06:56 PM   #111 
     - If I were suffering and unable to communicate  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 04:02 PM   #60 
  - You don't like it?  purduejake   Nov-30-04 06:19 PM   #98 
  - Why not "let them die naturally"??? Another one unable to read.  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 07:45 PM   #116 
  - We do this here too  lastliberalintexas   Nov-30-04 03:39 PM   #46 
  - Can we say invasion on a christian crusade?  judaspriestess   Nov-30-04 03:41 PM   #48 
  - I can  rman   Dec-01-04 12:33 PM   #205 
  - Hey, whatever you do don't tell ...  ElectroPrincess   Nov-30-04 03:49 PM   #53 
  - This is going to get a lot of attention,  hyphenate   Nov-30-04 04:15 PM   #65 
  - As I understand it, the dilemma is often in pain relief  KitSileya   Nov-30-04 05:00 PM   #69 
  - I personally think that MD's play God with preemies a bit too much  bleedingheart   Nov-30-04 05:06 PM   #71 
  - If doctors were God, they'd know what to do  hedgehog   Nov-30-04 09:50 PM   #152 
  - Ok...I am very pro choice, but this is f*cking insane.  Bono71   Nov-30-04 05:09 PM   #74 
  - You are over-reacting a bit I'd say, but you aren't alone, so  bobbyboucher   Nov-30-04 05:14 PM   #79 
  - I did. I have a problem with it. However, can't empathize with  Bono71   Nov-30-04 05:15 PM   #80 
     - Reading your comments on other posts, I can't say that I'm  VegasWolf   Nov-30-04 06:31 PM   #102 
        - Rational reason? Nah  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 08:07 PM   #120 
  - Why because you don't approve?  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 05:18 PM   #81 
  - Ah yes...  Bono71   Nov-30-04 05:24 PM   #83 
     - Oh please do  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 05:28 PM   #86 
        - This Bono can't seem to help himself.  VegasWolf   Nov-30-04 06:33 PM   #105 
  - and what your opinin of "this" has to do with CHOICE --  iverglas   Dec-01-04 02:29 PM   #214 
  - Have you ever watched a baby die?  preciousdove   Nov-30-04 05:12 PM   #77 
  - Yes, there are  lastliberalintexas   Nov-30-04 05:44 PM   #88 
  - For all who live  Karenina   Nov-30-04 06:08 PM   #96 
  - HUGS....  CatBoreal   Nov-30-04 08:32 PM   #122 
  - My heart goes out to you and your family for having to endure that  GloriaSmith   Nov-30-04 09:01 PM   #132 
  - What's wrong with that?  DoNotRefill   Nov-30-04 06:25 PM   #100 
  - Surprise, Surprise, Drudge is making a big deal of this! n/t  VegasWolf   Nov-30-04 06:33 PM   #107 
  - Of course he is; the rightwingnuts want all humans to SUFFER baby SUFFER!  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 07:57 PM   #118 
  - YAY!  Forkboy   Nov-30-04 07:17 PM   #112 
  - I dont like this...  Endangered Specie   Nov-30-04 08:33 PM   #123 
  - When the babies are IN PAIN that meds CAN'T RELIEVE  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 08:54 PM   #129 
  - You had better be VERY careful with enacting such legislation...  Endangered Specie   Nov-30-04 09:07 PM   #134 
     - Yes...exactly like the procedures mentioned  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 09:10 PM   #136 
        - Im sorry if I remain hesitant and stubborn on this...  Endangered Specie   Nov-30-04 09:17 PM   #141 
           - Think about it.  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 09:50 PM   #151 
           - Unfortunately, that is not always true  tewl   Nov-30-04 10:03 PM   #154 
              - Ok...  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 10:30 PM   #161 
                 - Question:  tewl   Nov-30-04 10:38 PM   #163 
                    - Yes I'm ok with that.  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 11:01 PM   #167 
           - How many  Puglover   Dec-01-04 12:10 PM   #202 
  - Read the whole article  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 11:10 PM   #173 
  - I read a few of the early posts and thought I was in the twilight zone!  floridaguy   Nov-30-04 08:44 PM   #126 
  - Way ahead of the curve is right...  TheDebbieDee   Dec-01-04 02:00 AM   #187 
  - The Dutch are lightyears ahead of the USA  Puglover   Dec-01-04 12:12 PM   #203 
  - No wonder George Bush is President  Oreegone   Nov-30-04 09:14 PM   #138 
  - No kidding!  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 09:28 PM   #145 
  - Notice those that are opposed  Mandate My Ass   Nov-30-04 09:28 PM   #146 
  - It's Netherlands vs Neanderthals. Netherlands 100 - Neanderthals 0.  VegasWolf   Nov-30-04 09:15 PM   #139 
  - As a nursing student and "almost RN", I fully support this  Heddi   Nov-30-04 09:23 PM   #144 
  - Ceusescu tried to kill off disabled children  IronLionZion   Nov-30-04 09:40 PM   #150 
  - And yet another one that didn't bother reading the article  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 09:58 PM   #153 
     - I read the article  hedgehog   Nov-30-04 10:06 PM   #155 
     - I bet it would  Il_Coniglietto   Nov-30-04 10:18 PM   #157 
     - You misundersdtood the article then  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 10:24 PM   #158 
     - yet another one who didn't read my post  IronLionZion   Nov-30-04 11:15 PM   #175 
  - Parental consent is NOT required!  tewl   Nov-30-04 10:06 PM   #156 
  - Even with the older provision, I still agree with the law  LynnTheDem   Nov-30-04 11:08 PM   #171 
     - well then  tewl   Dec-01-04 06:11 AM   #191 
        - You too  LynnTheDem   Dec-01-04 06:18 AM   #192 
           - And I hope someday you'll get off your cross  tewl   Dec-01-04 08:43 AM   #197 
              - Cross not needed to believe the patient should be the #1 priority  LynnTheDem   Dec-01-04 09:45 AM   #198 
                 - Sorry but cannot convince me that sanctimonious jerks  Puglover   Dec-01-04 12:19 PM   #204 
  - Got a little story for ya.  Moonbeam_Starlight   Nov-30-04 11:20 PM   #177 
  - That was a story with a moral, Moonbeam. Did anyone see "Wit" on HBO?  kittykitty   Nov-30-04 11:47 PM   #178 
     - I'm not sure what the motivation was for my aunt's doctors  Moonbeam_Starlight   Dec-01-04 12:11 AM   #181 
        - You can never tell what might happen  FlaGranny   Dec-01-04 12:51 AM   #184 
        - One of the first experiences a nurse friend of mine  burrowowl   Dec-01-04 01:08 AM   #185 
  - I've read this whole thread  hickman1937   Dec-01-04 12:23 AM   #183 
  - Actually, I think that's the best argument against this I've seen.  KitSileya   Dec-01-04 12:58 PM   #206 
  - Sorry, this is no slippery slope, did you not read the article  VegasWolf   Dec-01-04 02:13 PM   #210 
  - nicely said--thanks kickman1937--there is wisdom in your post  rodeodance   Dec-01-04 02:37 PM   #215 
  - What the hell is happening to us guys?  ALiberalSailor   Dec-01-04 01:22 AM   #186 
  - "You guys" are a small proportion of the posters here.  Bridget Burke   Dec-01-04 07:18 AM   #196 
  - Somebody  xerox   Dec-01-04 10:43 AM   #200 
  - moot point; it ain't gonna happen here anytime soon  Marlena   Dec-01-04 02:55 PM   #216 
 

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