After months of silent, closed door negotiations between the holy trinity (the executive branch, the congress, & the health care industry), we stand on the brink of health insurance reform.

Health insurance reform. Do not confuse this with health care reform as that was never the intent of this legislation. This is not a minor point. Health care reform would have addressed the central problem of our current health care system and confronted the reality that in order to provide universal, affordable health care for all citizens, we would need to stop treating human health as a commodity. It would have taken a moral imperative to place human life over profit. But, right from the very beginning, the central GOAL in creating this legislation was just the opposite, the development of a plan that not only maintained, but expanded the ability of the health care industry (private insurers, big pharm, large hospitals) to profit off human illness.

And, that has what has been created. A bill that enshrines private health care companies as the government mandated model for health care administration. A bill that will provide 70 billion dollars in subsidies to private insurance companies, at the expense of universal, affordable coverage for every American citizen. A bill that negotiated away the government's ability to stop big pharm price gouging, in exchange for a phony bargain where the pharmaceutical companies would cut up to 8 billion dollars in costs over the next ten years while they elevated prices 10 billion this year alone. A bill that does not allow reimportation of drugs from Canada and holds the American people hostage to a mob type system of pay or die. Under this bill, millions will not be able to afford their prescriptions. Millions more will be forced to choose medication, food, or heat.

Under this bill, denial of care will be allowed for a thousand other reasons then the sole prohibited exception of a preexisting condition.

Under this bill, health care coverage will remain a game of chance.

Under this system, class difference may still determine whether you live or die.


The promoters of this legislation claim that this bill will provide health insurance to 96% of the population. But, they fail to note that doesn't mean it provides health care to 96% of the American people. The reality is that tens of millions will only be able to afford plans that provide either minimal or catastrophic coverage. Millions more will opt out entirely and pay the fine to avoid tax penalties or jail time. Millions more won't be able to pay the fine, and they will incur a thousand dollar penalty in addition to the hundreds of dollars they could not afford to pay to opt out. Or, they will go to jail. Bankruptcy from medical bills will continue en force with this legislation. The most affordable 'comprehensive' policies are allowed to only cover up to 60% of costs. If anyone with a 'comprehensive' policy such as this meets with the bad fate of a chronic or life threatening illness (or even a single hospitalization), they will stand in very real danger of being financially ruined even with their insurance coverage.

Under pressure from the executive branch, the Congress removed the only strong amendment in the House bill that would allow a state from emancipating from the enslavement to corporate insurance by developing their own single payer plans. The Kucinich amendment which would have prevented insurance companies from suing states who developed single payer at the state level is gone. So, yes. That means states can be SUED by private insurance companies for developing an alternate system that would provide universal, affordable and comprehensive coverage to its citizens.

Industry profit above all else.

This reform is being accepted from the American people out of ignorance and sheer and total desperation. We have acquiesced to the corporate dictate for so long, we forget that we even have the alternative to fight back against policies that put our very lives at risk for the sole purpose of corporate and shareholder profit. We have become so accustomed to the myth of compromise,
we have relinquished our principles to the point of our own powerlessnes. So, it is with this legislation. Better to take what crumbs are thrown, then to stand on conviction and demand true reform. Something is better then nothing. Our fear is so great, we cower and give up before we even begin to fight. But, until we break this circle, we will be left with less and less, and our power to influence will be all but impotent.

This legislation was written to save the health insurance system from the collapse which was soon to come. A collapse which very well could have precipitated the transition to single payer.

Why are we reviving the beast?

Guess he was a sellout and a corporate tool.

He led the charge against Nixon's mandated & subsidized for-profit insurance system in the 70s. Funny how time changes things

Sorry.

I am so done with supporting any legislation because a politician supports it.

...that a member with a Kennedy sig and picture would K&R a post attacking what is essentially his bill.

I figured out where you stand already.

Can I post this at Daily Kos?

This needs to be shouted everywhere and loudly. I don't have your words and I and I would like to post this LOUDLY at DK.

Can I?

WattleBreakfast

and NAFTA...

He was not a Liberal nor Progressive nor pro Union...If this Bill passes with Ted's idea's...We do need HELP!!!!

He was one of the better Senators and accomplished a lot of meaningful things, but he was no Bernie Sanders.

personally, I found the OP compelling and would be very interested in substantive replies actually confirming or disconfirming the contents, preferably with authority/sources.

UR even nuttier than I thought.

Well, you are clever. You caught me typing a response to the wrong post.

Thanks for the illuminating debate and counter. Brilliant as always.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7062279#7063789

Ensuring that it will be Too Big To Fail^TM

and cover a temporary shortfall. This reform is neither going to be paid back nor is it (intended to be) temporary. We're just giving the same insurance industry that wrecked healthcare delivery a giant straw to suck everlastingly from the Treasury--their gift in perpetuity or until the whole thing crashes.

I suppose it would meet the insurance executives' definition of the word, but it sure doesn't meet mine (and I'll bet it really doesn't meet yours).

This bill is just a status quo protection act.

that will become even MORE watered down and less about "we the people" and I simply can't wrap my brain around the fact that Obama is in favor of this!

Obama said during the campaign that there would be comprehensive HCR, so I guess most of us thought that meant "for the people" but now seems that it will be "comprehensive" but doesn't look like the butter is on MY side of the bread.

Just to SAY you passed something, doesn't mean it's a GOOD SOMETHING! Shall I wait even longer to see what I may like even less?? What will happen if this gets worse? I don't see this as helping Democrats getting re-elected, except of the fact that THEY get lots of money for those they have protected.

And as I've said many, many times... it's not so easy to replace a sitting elected official as long as they have a certain name recognition and enough money to exploit any primary opposition to them, and thereby almost insuring their re-election! As long as they keep playing the same game with the SAME money rolling in we will be getting the same lame representation.

But then, I'm just one of those people who see this thing coming down the pike and not so much "for the people" but something for Democrats to CROW about! It's said this is only a start, but being the cynic I've become I don't think this will be re-visited any time soon. The ONLY saving possibility will be when those people who will NOW be required to buy insurance start squealing like pigs! But will THAT happen, I don't have much faith in that either! So therefore Democrats may just get blamed for passing a "heaping piece of crap" that may give the Repukes even more ammunition to point more fingers!

This is just how I'm seeing it right now. We've waited and waited and each time the bill has less and less to over the people, so "waiting and giving" them more time seems useless to me! If I'm wrong, and I would LOVE to be wrong, then I'll eat my words or at least make comments of support. Right now, support is something I can't give!

JMHO!

pushing real reform. Rahm needs to go.

That's not the way "bailouts" have ever worked.

We know what their real intention is for.

and tears of the American people.

Thank you so much for this!

You articulated so well what I have thought since the day that the President and others started referring to "Health Insurance Reform" rather than Health Care Reform.

Why do so many people think this is a good thing?

I lost hope when I read about a provision that kept me from pursuing a government option if I had private health-care insurance. In other words, if I didn't like my private plan, I still couldn't switch to a public plan even though I thought that plan was better. How's that suppose to help me?

there's lots of stupid Americans

i have worked for so many years for others to have coverage as great as mine..now i think I can say without a hint of guilt or caring..fukem!..if there are people stupid enough to promote this piece of shit.,.well then just fuckem!..AND WHEN THEY GET THEIR ASSES HANDED TO THEM AND THE CLOUD OF HOPEY SHIT WEARS OFF OF THEIR LITTLE CLOUD OF DELUSION..I WILL SAY PUBLICLY TO THEIR FACES..FUCK YOU!..YOU... FUCKED YOURSELF!

I have no pity left for stupid asses that continue to sell themselves out ..it is the rest who get sold out with them i will save my pity for!

side of the people, not the corporations. A lot of voters have failed to notice how the DLC corporate takeover has fundamentally changed our party.

and unfortunately the Dems are giving them lots of ammo. I'm so mad at Obama and Harry Reid, I could spit. They aren't helpless. They could fix this....if they wanted to. Leadership. Principles. Conviction. Integrity. Oh, if only.

But hey, who cares what any of us think, really?

Our government has been bought and sold a long time ago, and nothing fundamental has "changed."

government is a corporatist government, pure, simple, unequivocally, and wholly corrupt. :P

this needs to be addressed before any type of reform is passed.

...would provide some real reform.

Change you can believe in. People thought they would be represented under this administration. Unfortunately, the goodwill and trust people have/had towards this administration has been utilized by the corporations to push through anti-democratic policies with Obama as the frontman sales person.

It's been quite a slide, and a sobering experience, ever since....

You nailed it. Baited and switched.

I'll forward this on to my own political email list. Next questions: "What do we do now?" and "Where do we go from here?"

............nothing and that it can be "fixed" sometime (?) down the road. But let's be really clear here, after this abortion is in place the insurance will be super powerful/wealthy with all of the additional revenues. You think it was bad in 93 and now? If nothing decent can be passed now, pity the people of America "down the road". It'll never get fixed and we'll never get single payer/Medicare for all. The middle class and poor folks are gonna get it in the ass with this bill.

Guess what? It's not. We've lost our Fourth Amendment rights to blanket warrants. And now we've lost any chance of real healthcare insurance reform.

"Oh, but the packaging looks so pretty," they'll say. "And here's a list of every single thing President Obama's done after being sworn in (twice). Why are you such a hater?"

Don't you realize? Stop being so egotistical. YOU GOT PLAYED.

...and yet, I allowed myself to hope, for a while....

......."Bill" Obama, change we CAN'T believe in. It's really starting to look like a joke now, all the comparing him to FDR. Not even fucking close. I have begun comparing him to Clinton, smart guy, good speeches, and when all was said and done, not worth a shit.

All we have left, it seems, is supporting him for the time being to stand against something even worse: the Pukes.

The Democrats: a few good eggs, but mostly lousy, corrupt, corporate leadership.

The Pukes: Servants of the same corporate masters, but with the added input of raving, satanic lunatics.

At this point, rhe defenders are living in a dream world.

First there is 4 years to allow these monsters to grow even larger and raise their rates with no regulation that I can find.

It is a crime of the highest order that medical insurance should even be in wallstreet stocks so they can profit and gamble on peoples death.

This in all reality is one enormous torture camp without the gates and bars.

For decades people were told to go with preventative measures . An ounce of prevention was worth a pound of cure , remember that , now they want to take that away telling women breast exams and pap smears can now be stretched years , this flies in the face of science and proven facts. I guess it doesn't matter , they have the healthcare they need for life as do the reps in our government.

Just how stupid do they think people are . Are we now to shuffle off everything we were told all these years and buy the poison pill at a high price I might add just so their profits at the betting table of death produces not only a much larger profit from more chips( people) placed on their table and they get a bigger thrill through gambling .

Hell why not take the dying person out of the hospital bed, place them in a glass case to use as a timer for their games.

After all the years this country has existed off the sweat of workers this is what we are rewarded with, while the kings and queens in DC and the stock holders sit back and place their bets and trade for favors.

Once we knew that the medical insurance companies were selling shares we should have rounded them up and given them cement shoes and stapled their 300 page fucking HMO selection book to their foreheads.

This bill will be undone by Medicare For All.

Medicare for All is the future.

for my pre-existing conditions while I wait for the future to arrive. Otherwise, I might not live to see the future.

until 2014 I believe.

so I'm not going to cheerlead for its defeat.

Frankly, if they don't pass something, the GOP takes over in 2010 and we'll be waiting years to get another shot.

this bill is by and for insurance companies and Medicare For All is the future, progressives are going to take the party back from the corporate faction and Medicare For All is issue #1.

until way in the future. So it wont help you. And if the republicants get power, they will strip it bare. We still need to keep working for a better bill and elect more progressives.

I misread the bill. But help me be sure I am reading the right bill. Is this what you understand as the Senate bill?

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

I heard on the radio that pre-existing coverage didnt begin until 2014 and I remembered the date from the bill. But when I reread as you suggested, it is clear that the 2014 is the end date for the temp high risk pool set up to provide coverage to the uninsured.

pass this bill; they'll tell us that "reform" is here and expect us to be grateful. Any efforts on our part to continue to push for real health care reform will be confuse them as they'll think they already addressed the issue and they will ignore us.

The ones who remain will have moved left, the deadwood will be swept away.

DLC Democrats = the new Dixiecrats.

Buh-bye.

Man, the Dems are blowing it and they really don't have to. They need to stop being so fearful of fillbusters. And stop allowing fillibusters by simple vote. MAKE the Republicans speak on the floor until they drop!

FOR THE PEOPLE!! Just more breast thumping for THE POWERS THAT BE!!

he said this is what the bill is without a robust public option, i'd say even with. the public option is a sorta fairytale.

We have meekly accepted a predatory government of the worst sort, ruled by profit for the ruling class and their ability to legally rob us blind by takeover of the government and making laws to protect themselves as this bill does. Unless someone like Grayson runs in the next POTUS election I don't give a shit anymore. We have been flim flammed and bamboozled into voting for ruthless smooth talking crooks pedaling 3 card Monty as policy. Enough is enough.

Thank you. Yours is one of most concise portrayals of how this government is structured that I have ever read. Enough is truly enough!

This bill is not the disaster you portray it to be-and anyone still talking about single payer as a panacea hasn't done their homework. Read "The Cost Conundrum" and the Dartmouth Atlas. Insurance in not the major cost problem- "fee for service" delivery IS. Most of the your hyperbole is so over the top and disconnected from reality it's almost as amusing as a teabagger rant. We all realize and are fighting against the corporate influence, but you don't eliminate that influence by trying to pass legislation that has no chance of passing. This bill addresses many of the major problems with health care, has a public option that can be build on, insurance reforms including law against discrimination for pre-existing conditions and rescissions, medicare reforms, comparative effectiveness research, subsidies for lower income so they can afford premiums (max 10% of income- without the bill the projections go as high as 60% of income)and although it's far from perfect it's a step in the right direction. ALL of the progressive democrats in the Senate voted for this. Even Wendell Potter, the insurance industry whistle-blower supports it. So what does that make you? WAY out in left field.

It's not going to regulate itself. They can put in all the rules and laws they want and always someone gets around them.

This bill is a giveaway and you can't build on soft shit.

For example someone i sin the hospital then is told something is not covered , something in some fine print in the policy. Then what , a lawyer and all the costs just to prove it. This crap will never end.

and 650 billion over then next 10 years. You can't just look at the fractional PO and say the bill is not going to save money. The public option can be expanded over that time and the competitive exchanges also can lower costs. There are also provisions for comparative effectiveness, preventive care, and wellness that get to best practices than not only save money but provide better health care. Money is allocated for medicare waste fraud and abuse as well. There are scams that are set up with fake patients and there has not been enough money allocated to enforce that fraud. One of my pet peeves is the "scooter store" free scooter for people. OK, some may need it, but many should be on a diet and exercise program. For many the scooter will just make them more sedentary and less healthy. One example.

In 10 years so they say. A lot can happen in 10 years and this bill does not go into affect for at least 4 years. It sounds like news speak to me . Is it now savings in 6 years minus the 4 ? Who the hell knows.

A plan should be something people can understand and start at the root of the known problems. If there is medical fraud and I'm sure there is find it and end it , and regulate the healthcare insurers so they can't rob and use crap like pre-existing conditions and caps per year . Then see how that pans out . But this bill of bills is so complicated that even the ones who came up with it only understand their own part, not the entire scam package from hell.

They do this by intent not to help people but to screw them.

I wish they spend or put in this much effort to create jobs and end these wars then deal with the rest of the healthcare.

The people have been screwed by insurance corps for decades, and this is what they come up with. Take the health care out of the market and the stockholders hands and make it healthcare for the people or close the damn thing down and starve them out.

This bill has the health ins corps finger prints all over it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaway/199

"The legislation includes a number of other provisions with a significant budgetary effect.

They include the following:

 Community Living Assistance Services and Supports (CLASS) provisions, which
would establish a voluntary federal program for long-term care insurance. Active
workers could purchase coverage, usually through their employer. Premiums
would be set to cover the full cost of the program as measured on an actuarial
basis. However, the program’s cash flows would show net receipts for a number of
years, followed by net outlays in subsequent decades. In particular, the program
would pay out far less in benefits than it would receive in premiums over the
10-year budget window, reducing deficits by about $72 billion over that period,
including about $2 billion in savings to Medicaid..."


....BREAKING: CBO Releases Numbers On House Health Care Bill : Reduce Deficit by $104 Billion

...so where did that reduction come from, it appears a large portion (72 billion) is due to this new long term care insurance, aka CLASS.

While that is something to celebrate, the plan would have people paying in over the 10 year budget window for something they will need in the future...

That and $10-25 thousand will get you a little insurance, at least until you get too expensive.

Eat the crumbs. Decry those who would challenge the status quo.

Orwellian, no other word for it.

you can compare the proposed plan with?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/opinion/17krugman.html

In this country, the Massachusetts health reform more or less follows the Swiss model; costs are running higher than expected, but the reform has greatly reduced the number of uninsured. And the most common form of health insurance in America, employment-based coverage, actually has some “Swiss” aspects: to avoid making benefits taxable, employers have to follow rules that effectively rule out discrimination based on medical history and subsidize care for lower-wage workers.

So where does Obamacare fit into all this? Basically, it’s a plan to Swissify America, using regulation and subsidies to ensure universal coverage.

If we were starting from scratch we probably wouldn’t have chosen this route. True “socialized medicine” would undoubtedly cost less, and a straightforward extension of Medicare-type coverage to all Americans would probably be cheaper than a Swiss-style system. That’s why I and others believe that a true public option competing with private insurers is extremely important: otherwise, rising costs could all too easily undermine the whole effort.

But a Swiss-style system of universal coverage would be a vast improvement on what we have now. And we already know that such systems work.

MORE AT LINK

for basis health insurance. That is correct Non-Profit. Run that one by Wall Street. Anybody who provides basic health insurance must be non-profit.

<snip>
So I won't get into the obvious. I did however want to remind you that the Swiss system of mandatory health insurance only works because health insurers are forbidden to make a profit on basic health insurance coverage!

But don't worry. Our insurance companies are in quite healthy (ha, ha) financial shape. Really.

Everyone in Switzerland carries two government mandated policies - 1. personal everyday medical health insurance ( with lots of choice regarding add ons and deductible), subsidized by the government for those in need, and - 2. accident medical insurance, half paid for by one's employer, half paid for by employee, or when necessary the state. (This is a relatively inexpensive subsidy for a country with unimaginably low unemployment).

That health insurance is competitive and non profit is built into this very capitalist and working Swiss system, a system that believes no one should go bankrupt and lose their home because of family medical bills, that no one should delay critical medical and preventive care, and lose even their health because they are uninsured, and that no one should lose their life because an insurer denied coverage due to any pre existing condition. This is a competitive capitalist system that says no one should go without health care if they need it.
<end>

link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/caitlin-kraft-buchman/switzerlands-health-insur_b_291944.html

It's not a perfect system -- neither is Medicare -- but it's way better than the non-system system we have now.

Switzerland's system is characterized by the NON-PROFIT nature of basic health insurance. It was made non-profit by law even before it was made mandatory. In fact, because the costs were kept down by mandating insurers -not individuals- to provide policies at no profit, 94% of Swiss citizens were ALREADY covered by insurance when the law mandating purchase of insurance was passed. No one is under any mandate to buy for-profit health insurance in Switzerland, but they will be in the United States. Insurers can sell you supplementary insurance at a profit in Switzerland but nobody is under obligation to buy it.

Basic health care is the vast majority of health care spending in any country, although it can be defined somewhat differently. In Canada and France, basic health care is paid for out of national health insurance funds collected from taxes. Both countries also have supplemental private insurance available to cover non-essential care. For example in Canada 65% of people have some form of supplemental private insurance on top of their public basic health care. But that private insurance market is the tail that doesn't wag the dog. The basic health care market is much larger. In Canada the national health insurance's share of overall health care spending is 70%, in France it is 80%. That is the share of "basic care" in health spending, as defined by typical countries, and clearly it is vast majority of the overall nationwide market. By its sheer size then, and the fact that in these two countries a) the govt speaks for it and b) there is no profit skimming middleman always interested in raising prices, the basic care market guides pricing and other expectations in the privatized remainder of the health care marketplace. In the Swiss system, the govt. does not take the role of insurer, but simply forbids the insurers from making any money of this vast market. The middleman is tolerated but not allowed to make a profit!
THAT IS NOTHING LIKE WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED UNDER THIS BILL.

You want to propose basic health care insurance --70% to 80% of the overall health care spending in the country-- be made non-profit by law, GO RIGHT AHEAD. I'd love to see that. Heads will explode and it may be that yours is the first to go.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying what you said amounts to a lie.

I'm going with Krugman. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/opinion/17krugman.html

There are cost controls in the bill and proposals to limit overhead and profit of the private insurers. We aren't to the final bill yet and even if it's not perfect it can be refined over time and it's FAR better than the status quo which is unsustainable.

The status quo needs to GO, not get propped up for another decade. It's unsustainable? Seriously, you're telling ME it's unsustainable?
STOP TRYING TO SUSTAIN IT.

admin. Krugman is not a part of the status quo or the problem. I hold his opinion in high regard and therefore his view on this issue has value. The bill in congress DOES reduce costs according to the non-partisan CBO 780 billion over 20 years. There are provisions that reduce the out of control medicare and end of life costs, transform our 'fee for service" model of delivery, and help us move toward a more sustainable system. It's not BS. Is it perfect? is it single payer? No. is is a significant improvement from what we have now? Absofukinlutley.

I don't know. CEO pay and administrative overhead -- two big costs for instance -- are unaffected by profit.

But if we don't know how much profit influences costs, it's unfair to characterize our plans to the Swiss plan as "a lie."

BTW, my head won't "explode" if we mandate that health insurers can't make a profit on basic care. The eagerness to which people ascribe the worst motives to other post-ers here is truly unbelievable.

this bill creates one that has some fundamental structures that can be implemented and adjusted over time. Right now we essentially have NO system. The randomness and lack of a system creates runaway costs.

There was a great segment on 60 minutes tonight about end of life care- did you see it? It chronicled the high costs driven by this idea that we have to do everything to keep people alive in the last few months of life, even if they should be sent home to die in peace with family instead of on hooked up to a respiratory. it's inhumane and it's VERY expensive. Partly this is driven by pressures for doctors and hospitals to make their budget-as well as to cover their costs for uncompensated care. Partly by our cultures fear and avoidance of death. This bill has structures to deal with end of life counseling, comparative effectiveness/best practices research. The bill gives HHS methods to change us from a "Fee for service" model, to an outcomes focused system. The fact that 30-40 million more will be insured should reduce emergency room costs and uncomensated care that will save money. All this is build into this legislation and is something to be celebrated. I think these provisions are much more important than the insurance part that has gotten a disproportionate attention in the media and blogs. I'm frustrated to see all the corporate conspiracy hype here about insurance and not enough real examination of the bill and its positive aspects.

:thumbsup:

a "reform".

I hate to say this, but... for the first time in my life, I wish I lived in Europe instead.

Just sayin'

perhaps you got proles confused with slaves. Though Orwell used the word somewhat differently and was more based in the Russian use of the word for proletariat...

Beside the slaves, the proletariat or proles, were the lowest class of Roman society, freemen without property. As such they had no vote in any of the Roman assemblies although the mob, largely composed of proletarians, was a factor that Roman politicians had to consider (torches, pitchforks and all that, something we need perhaps to take to hart ). Though sometimes treated better, slaves were lower on the class structure than proles, though some were highly educated and many treated like members of aristocratic households and some far, far worse.

Thanks.

I'm just discouraged by all of the postings here lately. And when you have been fighting for the crumbs for years, it just pisses me off when people say they are so unhappy here, they want to leave. What's stopping you?

I would prefer to stay and continue to fight.

Frankly, we aren't Europe and never will be. We just aren't mature enough as a society and have many years of growing up left to do.

I looked into emigrating to Australia 9 years ago for just this reason. Too late. I was 1 year over the age they will take you for an occupation of preference. I wish I had wised up sooner. As an RN I could have gone anywhere up to the age of about 45. Now? I'm stuck in this corporatist hell of a nation.

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Whether you deny it...

Ignore it...

Give in to it...

Or, fight. That is your choice.

We SHOULD be afraid of what we have allowed this country to become. Only when we acknowledge truth, we will even have a chance of real change.

condition and couldn't buy insurance without health care reform. And another relative was denied insurance several years ago because of a pre-existing condition, and now has no insurance to pay for his cancer treatments.

Health care reform doesn't scare me. Either the House or the Senate plan will improve the situation from what it is now.

They have to insure you but there is nothing to stop them from jerking you around with paperwork and barriers for years. Insurance =/= care.

more reform. Single payer will always be an option, but it doesn't have the votes now.

So called "insurable" people are being denied care all over the place, and going bankrupt as a result of it. I'm perplexed as to why people think that saying "you can't deny preexisting conditions" and adding a few million more people to the rolls will fix the underlying problem of having most health care being delivered by an industry that makes profits by denying people care!

Outside of the classic 'pre-existing conditions' excuse....

My aunt was denied chemotherapy simply because her insurance company determined that she didn't need a second dose.

My parents had thousands of dollars of medical test denied because my dad had more then one test in a day.

My best friend's mother had her prescription coverage denied because the med was not within the approved list by her insurer.

The list goes on & on & on & on & on.

People think, oh goody, they will let ME in. Of course they will. They will take your money and then think up ways to deny care and increase their profits. Insurance companies don't exist to ensure everyone receives health care, they exist to make profit. After what these corporations have done, I don't know how anyone can trust them to responsiblity administer health care for the people of this nation.

Crumbs, people. Crumbs.

two departments - sales and claims denial.

I don't know how anyone can trust them to responsiblity administer health care for the people of this nation."


It's boggling, isn't it?

that's something providers do. All the insurance companies do is act as a middle man they really contribute nothing to the health care delivery system except to throw up road blocks.

thus making my visits to him "out of network" where I pay full price and get re-reimbursed for about 1/3 of my total fee.

I'm enrolled in a Humana PPO which still provides me health care with doctors in my network, but others with Humana of a different type are being dropped by many, many doctors. Even on my list I find it's outdated already. I needed a new primary care doctor and it was difficult finding one. But as I said, since I have a PPO they will take me, but for how long I don't know!

rope for the insurance companies to hang themselves with. The real problem is how many people will experience long illnesses and early death because of it?

..........wealthy, there will NEVER be reform.

They can still deny care, just not for preexisting conditions.

I completely understand that you want to be able to have insurance coverage for your child.

The problem is that this bill empowers a very corrupt industry that will continue to put their profit motives ahead of patient care. It may seem fine to make a deal with a devil now, but millions find themselves with inadequate insurance or denial of care. We are strengthening the companies that created the situation where your child can be denied care.

They aren't going to become more ethical. They will just play different games.

This bill does not solve the problem. You may find yourself with the ability to buy insurance coverage without actual health care coverage.

We need to protect ourselves from these companiea, not empower them.

Can I post this at Daily Kos?

This needs to be shouted everywhere and loudly. I don't have your words and I and I would like to post this LOUDLY at DK.

Can I?

WattleBreakfast

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/22/806943/-Health-Insurance-Reform:-The-Enslavement-of-American-Citizens-to-Corporate-Rule

It is going to get buried over there, and I want to shout this message again, and again, and again - as loud as possible.

What can we do to get people to understand what is going on? I don't want to vote these people back into office.

You are an democratic apologist.

I feel sorry for you that the truth makes you afraid.

Cite it or shut it. "Enslavement," indeed. Had to check the URL for a moment there to make sure I was on the right site.

Care to do that first? If not, go jump in a lake. A deep, apologist ridden, lake.

"This reform is being accepted from the American people out of ignorance and sheer and total desperation."

That is true..and this is an outrage and a shame.
Dang it...wake up!!!!~ Wake the fuck up!!! This bill is a disaster.

Wow...the fringe come out for hype and fear.

I love it. Pointing out the realities of this bill and the unwitting corporate defenders stone you as 'fringe'.

You want to talk sheep. Look in a mirror.

the dags hanging out of his ass called you a sheep! What a sheep-patsy!

going to wake up and realize they've been had by the Democratic Congress and Democratic administration. All they'll know is that the R's were against this crappy POS.

If people are forced to buy shitful insurance from a bunch of known crooks or face fines for refusing to do so, there is going to be hell to pay in 2010.

The Democratic Congress and Democratic President were elected to change things for the better - not screw the American people over by forcing them to hand over their hard earned dollars to thieves whose mission is to prevent them from getting the health care they need.

Isn't that what it's all about?

:sarcasm:

It's one thing to mandate an additional payment into a federal tax-supported single-payer plan that ALL participate in, but it may just be unconstitutional to require people to pay a private insurance company... a for (massive) profit company..

When you pay for car insurance you never PLAN to actually "use" the coverage.. you are insuring against a mishap occurring, but when you buy medical "coverage", it's for the specific purpose of USING it. You are essentially paying a company to pay your bills, and giving them 30% of every dollar for the job..

it's a classic case of incremental ism vs. a bold paradigm shift. I'd love to see single payer. But where does the support come from? Even in the Democratic primary, if you wanted single payer, it was Kucinich. Not even within the Democratic party is there support for real health care reform from the actual candidates. You still get shouted down sometimes on Democratic Underground if you support single payer - I agree that it's a sad state that to support what the majority of Democrats support gets you called a dreamer on a site like this. The teabaggers get way more traction in the political system out of proportion to their numbers because they are vociferous about their core issues. Until Democrats do that, we'll get less than our share of results from the strength of our representation in Congress. Only people power and good persuasion from the Democratic left can shift that.

Yes, I blame the tea-baggers and the press who gave them air time for their ignorance; but these idiots were predictable and in the minority.

I followed these issues very closely and came to the same conclusion as this post early on.....but only with extreme difficulty. I believe that the abortion issue was crafted to be a distraction from the real issue that the public was getting the shaft. But who could follow this - Kucinich on the one hand and Grayson on the other. Both the house and senate and the executive branch were dealing behind closed doors and doing a lot of negotiating on the margins without benefit of public scrutiny.

This bill will go down as a sham and, unfortunately, the man in the White House, whose candidacy and election offered so much hope and promise, is responsible for this train wreck. The performance of the DP on this has validated earlier assumptions that our leaders are corrupt to the core and that the mandate for reform so eagerly anticipated in 2008 will not be redeemable. We are left without hope - if the Democratic Party can't deliver on this, what else is in store for us?

Must be toppled...

And, perhaps, progressives will stop selling out and supporting politicians who are lesser of two evils and completely making themselves and their principles irrelevant...

If we can't pressure the democrats to lead for the people and transform the party from within, a third party may be needed to push them back to their roots.

This is where we begin. There are no easy answers.

blaming a party who nominated a corporatist to run in the '08 election, whose win is fueling this disaster.

Why DU continues to love the OP's continuous Dem-bashing rants, I don't know.

Here's the thing -- you ask me to point out the inaccuracies, but the OP posts not a single fact, not one, to support her views. Yet no one asks her where she's getting these ideas, they're simply taken at face value.

Very few are actually willing to go look up the bill and summaries on their own, but seem to love the opportunity to attribute the worst possible motives to our party, just on the word of someone who posts nothing but negatively-slanted rants/misinterpreted information about the Democratic Party.

Alright, even though the bill and it's summaries are out there for anyone to look up to see where the inaccuracies are, here's one -- there's nothing in the bill that will require anyone to pay thousands of dollars in fines/go to jail if they opt to not carry insurance.

The fine is $95 starting 4 years from now, then increases yearly up to $750 in 2016, some six years from now. And there is nothing in the legislation that says the individual will go to jail. Hardly a doomsday scenario.

Why isn't there tea being tossed around regarding that bit of tyranny?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7066234&mesg_id=7066234

And I agree with you that the amoral private health insurance companies, who freely spent millions to gin up very destructive fear and hatred among "genuine grass roots groups," getting desperate people to storm town halls against their own best interests--

those companies will find a way to continue their "recision" a.k.a. coverage dropping. I imagine them giving us forms to fill out with small print saying that any omissions regarding health history will be grounds for loss of coverage or something. They'll drop you for not listing your ankle sprain 20 years ago because you "lied" on your application.

I am particularly sad about the "be grateful for half a loaf" strategy because things are in a much worse state after the 8 years of Bush Gang Rule during which the private insurers rushed to increase their profits by 428%. They created the clinical term "recision" to talk about what they were doing and make it seem more technical when it was just the dumping of expensive patients from coverage.

I had hoped that President Obama would use economic pragmatism to push for the compassionate option we all needed. Any triggers of human decency had long ago been blown off their hinges if we still had over 40 million uninsured and millions more going bankrupt from medical bills. That bitter reality could have fueled a starting push for single payer-- Here is the most efficient system. We gave the private insurers over a decade since they last defeated national health insurance to show us they could do better and they failed. Single payer is the most efficient system we've seen so far, and it is a great mixture of public and private elements-- medical services privately delivered, between you and your doctors; payments and cost controls publicly administered, accountable to us all-- not decided behind closed doors by insurance company "recision" specialists.

He could have chided Republicans for supporting a privatized system with overhead at 25-30% when Medicare for All (single payer) could provide those services with only 3-5% overhead.

Progressive ideas can be justified economically. I thought that would be his direction. Let's just look at the health care situation more logically. What works best? Medicare has a high patient satisfaction rate and low overhead. That will be our public option. Period. Not for ideological reasons but because it is the most efficient means of delivering health care to the American people. To handle the legislators desperate to protect the mountains of campaign cash they get from the profits our private health insurance companies have racked up, all he needed to do was say they were welcome to offer competitive plans, Medicare Part E (for everyone) would just be an option, not a mandate.

Sigh.

So here I am trying not to say too much because as a Yellow Dog Democrat I'm supposed to go along to get along and be grateful for a few moldy crumbs of half-a-loaf on this issue. Wowee, at least we passed something!

And I'm supposed to forget that my Democrats could have done the half-a-loaf scenario 15 years ago and chose to hang tough, even though they now tell us so firmly that they just need to get something through to start the ball rolling. They knew 15 years ago that Canada's Medicare plan started slowly. How odd that the Clintons held so strongly all or nothing on the basic human right of healthcare while giving away the store with NAFTA. We got more jobs shipped overseas to countries whose governments picked up the healthcare tab, then pushed our own unions to give up more of their benefits to "help our businesses be competitive internationally."

So where does that leave my hopes for progressive pragmatism with regard to Green Jobs? A massive national program to retrofit US businesses and housing with conservation technologies and solar panels would help address our serious unemployment while at the same time demonstrating to the world that the USA is finally serious about addressing our part in reducing atmospheric deterioration (aka combating global warming)?

Your post was so well written that I thought I would just hop in with you to share my angst.

I haven't been following developments lately and wasn't sure how bad the bill really was. This is quite bad. I really don't know what to say. This is so ridiculously far from what we should have had (single-payer) that I can only conclude the Democratic party as we knew it simply no longer exists. The corporate plutocracy has finally achieved full and total control over all American policy.

I think there is another bill pending to address this, but I am not certain what it is.

To me, this is AS important as reform and healthcare for all.

Thanks for including it with your concerns.

I wish he would, but it doesn't look "hopeful".

NOT A PUSSY-ASS DEMOCRAT?
JOIN US: http://TheFrankFactor.com

:kick:

Or you just have a flair for the dramatic.

This legislation isn't perfect, but it will help many people and give them some relief.

So when you say that in addition to ignorance, this insurance reform is being accepted because of total desperation. I agree with you on the second part. People in the real world need help and don't have time to type platitudes on DU. Do you know how many people get turned down because of pre-existing conditions? Do you even care?

Don't be so quick to assume that you're the only one possessing the unvarnished truth.

It must be hard for you to breathe sitting so high on your perch looking down at the ignorant and desperate people beneath you.

The Critical Unraveling of U.S. Society

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x497474

http://ampedstatus.com/the-critical-unraveling-of-us-society

real option left for us to fight for......

They have taken everything else away from us, taken it off the table....single payer, medicare for all, etc.

So we better fight for a STRONG public option, that's ALL we have left! Because health care is going to pass this year -

If we don't fight for a strong public option, health care WILL be passed in name only, with absolutely no effect on the insurance corporations profits nor their reaping in billions of our tax dollars as they have for decades....

We have to fight for a STRONG public option!

Too late for me to recommend, but here's a kick

Thank you! :kick:

try harder next time.

*you* try harder, 'k?


:shrug:

:shrug:

Explain why you don't agree with OP? You just slammed her and did not explain why? Was this just a hit and run thing?

You do.

.... eloquently stated commentary. Thank you!