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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:22 AM
Original message
New York Teacher Tells Students Santa Claus Isn't Real
New York Teacher Tells Students Santa Claus Isn't Real

A New York teacher is accused of being a real Scrooge after telling her young students that Santa Claus isn't real.

News 12 reports a second grade teacher in Nanuet, New York was giving a geography lesson when students noted that Santa Claus lives in the North Pole.

The teacher promptly told the kids Jolly Old Saint Nick doesn't exist and that it's their parents who leave presents underneath the tree every year.

The school's principal has yet to confirm the allegations and the superintendent was unavailable for comment.

Maintaining childrens's belief in myths can be a tricky task for teachers. In 2008, a teacher in England got into trouble for telling stunned students that "only small children believe in Father Christmas." And in September, parents in Leigh Acres, Florida were outraged when a teacher told students the tooth fairy isn't real.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/01/new-york-teach...
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limpyhobbler Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. hahahahaha hahaha hahahah hahahaha hahaha, nt
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
102. +100 ha ha ha
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. Santa Claus is no less real than the viability of supply-side economics
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. My second grade teacher told us that SC is a spirit. n/t
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. Imagine the shitfit if he'd told them the truth about "God"
... :hide:

Anyway, that isn't really called for. But I also think this probably doesn't rise to the level of 'breaking news', which should make everyone wonder why our "News" organizations are busy covering stuff like it instead of actual stories.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. God = Santa Claus for adults...
:hide:
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leftyohiolib Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. more religion intolerance from the religion-phobes
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. Commenting on religion is not 'intolerance'
Are you saying that you, or people in general, are intolerant of Santa Claus? If not, then why is comparing God and Santa Claus 'intolerant'?
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leftyohiolib Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
89. God = Santa Claus for adults" is not a "comment" on religion it is passive-aggressive mocking
of someone's religious beliefs. if you dont like, want or understand a religious relationship then dont have one,but to mock one's religious beliefs is just as wrong as mocking a homosexual relationship because it is not liked, wanted or understood.
i dont have a problem with religion or with homosexual lifestyle but the intolerance of people's religious beliefs here (which i find very surprising from the big tent party)is something i do have a problem with because it reeks of hypocrisy.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #89
99. Why? Why is it mocking? Actually, what you're engaged in now is SPECIAL PLEADING.
Because there is NO MORE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF "GOD" (who -in the first place- you probably ought to get a solid working definition for, before you start demanding people respect the belief in) than there is for "Santa".

If I'm wrong, show me the fucking evidence.


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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #89
115. No, religion is not like sexuality
Religion is a choice. Sexuality is not.

So please leave that red herring out of this.

'Intolerance of religion' would be an attempt to stop someone holding a religious view. Criticising, or mocking, the view is not 'intolerance'. You are still perfectly at liberty to believe in gods, and to proclaim your belief, and to try to persuade others to hold your view. But others are at liberty to say they don't, and to give reasons why, and try to persuade others to their view.

When you mock a Republican, do you think you're being hypocritical because you think moving people's beliefs is wrong?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #115
125. If someone claims that being gay gives them magical powers
I would respond the same way that I do to claims about "God"- i.e. show me the evidence.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
40. That's intolerance
Just like saying that astrology is nonsense is intolerance. Requiring that people provide empirical evidence for their fantastic claims about sky-gods is hardly intolerance. It's actually called reason.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
71. Yet people mention "Gaia" and "healing beams of light" with zero irony.
Whatever.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
98. Yeah, they think they sound perfectly rational, just like the Pope does when he tells you that
Jesus really cares whether you masturbate or not.

Whatever, is right.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #71
134. I have no idea what you are talking about
"Gaia" is just as silly as Yahweh.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
85. Why should that be 'required?'
People of faith are under no obligation to justify their beliefs or provide proof for them. Neither are those who believe in astrology.

I'm not a person of faith myself and I don't care for astrology either, but I respect the faith of others enough to not go out of my way to shame them for their beliefs. What's so bad about live and let live? I prefer to just let them do their thing and not inject my own beliefs into their lives. I don't feel it's my place to do so. I believe I'm right about faith, but I'm happy to keep that to myself.

And phrases like 'xtians' or 'sky gods' are little more than calculated jabs intended to belittle and demean. It's like saying 'Democrat Party.' It's not the worst thing one can say, but it's hardly necessary either.
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leftyohiolib Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
95. thank-you
"Requiring that people provide empirical evidence for their fantastic claims". sometimes i wonder who some people thnk they are. it's amazing that some egos can fit into only one body.
"And phrases like 'xtians' or 'sky gods'" let's not forget everyone's favorite: sky-wizard
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. People freak out about "sky gods" and "sky wizards" because they accurately describe ridiculous
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 03:40 PM by Warren DeMontague
beliefs that they'd rather not think about literally.

No, everyone is just supposed to nod solemnly at the magical, mystical powers and whoozitz attributed to "god", but it's considered bad form to attempt any sort of objective logical analysis of just what, exactly, "he" is supposed to be, where "he" lives, how "he" operates, what "he" is made of and (my favorite) where "he" came from in the first place.



"Oh, you say you don't repair the shoes yourselves, but little gnomes come out at night and do all the work for you? that's nice." :rofl:
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leftyohiolib Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. no one is telling you to do anything. not even nod solemnly
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 04:15 PM by leftyohiolib
people "freak out " because you are trying to insult them. you use those words because that's all it is to you. those are your descriptive words. like ancient people trying to describe rockets, they'd call rockets things like dragons spitting fire because they dont understand what they are looking at.

no one owes you any kind of objective logical analysis nor was anyone offering . you believe in what you are capable of believing. if you dont, wont or are incapable of understanding religion then dont practice any, but using words like skywizard is an attempt to insult. and we are supposed to be the party of tolerance or so i thought.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. Ideas like "God" don't get special exemption from the rules of logic and evidence
You have the right to believe whatever the hell you want. You don't have the right to expect other people to not challenge those beliefs.

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leftyohiolib Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. where did i say any of that. again i.d.c. what your beliefs are
"You don't have the right to expect other people to not challenge those beliefs." god=santa for adults and god=skywizard are not "challenges" to my belief they are insults hurled by people not interested in "challenging" but only in name calling because they have nothing else. you dont want to believe in god then dont but dont mock those who do. again when did insulting people here become fashion?

"You don't have the right to expect other people to not challenge those beliefs." nowhere did i say so but religious people do have the right to be treated in a more respectful manner here in these forums.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #105
117. 'Santa' is a supernatural being who rewards the good
and who is derived from a Christian saint. Why is comparing God to Santa 'name calling because they have nothing else'?

"religious people do have the right to be treated in a more respectful manner here in these forums. "

Ah, now you've mentioned a more appropriate word for what's going on here - 'respect'. How much respect do ideas have rights to? Can ideas have 'rights' at all? Or are you saying that people have the right to not have any of their ideas mocked? My great great grandfather wrote a book, just over 100 years ago, saying the earth is flat. He really believed that. Do you think he had a right for the book not to be mocked?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #105
124. No, they don't,
Demanding special exemption for magical beliefs is not the same thing as 'respect'. What deserves respect are universal standards of logic and evidentiary proof.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #105
133. No
I think it's perfectly appropriate to question the factual differences between Santa and Jesus. It's really an almost-perfect comparison. Both are stories about paternal figures that are passed down by elders for various reasons. There isn't a shred of evidence for either one.

That is a challenge to your beliefs. Why wouldn't someone who believes in Jesus based on no evidence find belief in Santa to be childish? There is no empirical difference.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #103
111. delete- dupe
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 05:48 PM by loyalsister
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #103
137. Well put. If someone is deluded it is important to assist them, esp. when they hear voices
unless, of course, they hear the voice of god? :rofl: Ya, right :rofl:
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #101
150. No, You Don't
owe anyone a logical analysis. But expect to be confronted with facts and logical analysis. How you respond is up to you.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #97
149. That's About Right
I think the problem I have as an non-theist is the sacred cowness of religion, not that fact that some people believe it. If someone wants to believe in stuff, fine with me. But I get tired of religion carving out exceptions to everything. Where I work, in a hospital, everybody has to abide by a mmillion rules, but clergy? Do what they want, go where they want. Do important jobs that are way above their experience and education level, but they are CLERGY so it's OK. Then we get to clean up the mess
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #97
152. Well, I guess if you you say...
Well, I guess if you you say "everyone is just supposed to..." and "they'd rather not think..." it must be true without bias nor based on anecdotal evidence... :shrug:
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #95
132. Hilarious post
So, I'm an egotist if I ask for rational proof of your fantastic claims?

Sorry, I think it takes a massive fucking ego to pretend to know the full mystery of the universe and mock others who are just pointing out obvious facts and asking others to be skeptical.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #85
131. BS
I respect people. I don't respect their "beliefs." Ideas only deserve my respect when they are rationally-derived and empirically-based.

And sorry, the Jewish/Muslim/Christian "god" is a sky god, like many other sky gods throughout human history. If an accurate description is offensive, then that's just too bad.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #131
148. Don't pretend that you can respect a person without respecting their beliefs
Beliefs are a part of people. For some people, faith is the most important part of their identity. If you aren't respecting their faith, you aren't respecting them. To pretend otherwise is to try to have it both ways and claim you are being respectful when you really aren't.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
112. This atheist believes "God" exists
There is no denying that "God" motivates people. Everyone is subject to it's influence. Entire countries fight wars, people commit murders, cultures adopt ideas about it that influence the lives of all who participate for better or worse. I don't believe, but I acknowledge that the fact that my family and many friends behaviors are driven by their beliefs influences my life.

Whether God exists as an entity or simply an idea is not an argument worth having. For many people it provides comfort and encourages them to keep their consciences in check. People deserve respect for their beliefs.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
142. Look, for the last time, if you want to believe in some fairy afterlife god crap..
That's your decision...

WE don't have to "respect" your religion or it's belief system. In fact, we would be lying to ourselves if we did.
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queenjane Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
130. I've been saying that for years!
It's exactly the same: Behave, follow the rules, be obediant, and there will be a BIG payoff down the line (toys, heaven, etc.) :thumbsup:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
136. God is only real if you were taught to be delusional as a child, with crap like Santa Claus
and that rabbit laying painted eggs everywhere :rofl:
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. This teacher is a hero for the movement.
War on Christmas, now more than ever!

:hide:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
78. lol!
:rofl:

Starting the war early this year!!
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
106. It starts earlier and earlier every damn year. I got my instructional
flyer from the ACLU in OCTOBER. Halloween hadn't even happened, and yet I was supposed to start fomenting the destruction of Christmas!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #78
138. don't kill a tree for Christ's sake
is an important message that needs to get out early, before the mass slaughter
of these wondrous sentient beings who we fail to recognize as gods :rofl:
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. In other news,
Huffpo accidentally tells kids that Santa isn't real by reporting this, oh and DU did too by posting the link... OH SHIT!!! and I just enabled its further destruction by replying and keeping it kicked. OH, THE HORROR! I just rec'd it too!!! If many more do this dastardly deed as I have, there it will be on the front page!!!

The Internet... Inadvertently Laying Waste To Blissful Ignorance Since 1995.
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. That's sad if it's true. It's not a teacher's place to tell children that. nt
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. So the teacher should lie and tell children that santa lives at the north pole?
what about the kids who don't celebrate christmas or who know santa isn't real?
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The teacher has no place in that discussion. She shouldn't have said anything. nt
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. That's it
Santa is a family matter. It's entirely possible to give a geography lesson about the poles and not bring Santa into it, just as it's possible to talk about the Himalayas and not bring yetis into the discussion.
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. according to the article a kid brought it up
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. The teacher should have said "I don't know about that" and moved on
It's possible to deflect the question without lying OR bursting anyone's bubble.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
45. Until what age?
Should 12th grade teachers also be held to your standard? If not, when is the exact level of schooling where a teacher could give factual information about the north pole?

What other mythologies should be taught in school?
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #45
64. So as long as it's fact then it can be taught to children of any age...
There is no such thing as age appropriate material in your world?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
79. Then define at which grade the teacher can presume the kid knows
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #79
128. There is a reasonableness standard...
... that gets stricter as children grow up. It isn't reasonable to just declare that 2nd graders "should" be at a certain level as determined by whoever.
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leftyohiolib Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
96. she could have said we're not here to talk about santa. hey while she's at it
she could let the adopted children know they were adopted. What other mythologies should be taught in school? what about columbus dicovering america, pearl harbor was an unprovoked attack by those wiley japanese, oh wait....
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ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
57. "I don't know about that" would be a lie, I would think
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 09:19 AM by ThomThom
Personally I think the teacher should have told them that Santa is a creation of Coke for advertising purposes
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
100. Then just change the damn subject, I suppose.
I mean, really, I can't imagine any of it is worth a prime spot on the 10 o'clock news.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
76. Then an intelligent teacher would have smiled and shrugged and said, "Let's move on,"
and that little tiny lack of denouement would have sustained the hope and wonder of one or more children.

But instead the teacher had to be an utter fuckstick and ruin it for whomever had the audacity to have an
innocent childhood belief.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
83. Why should that matter?
I'm sure 7 year olds ask their teacher where babies come from all the time. That doesn't mean the teacher should be giving them the straight dope on that subject just because they ask.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #83
121. What if a child said "babies come from storks"?
That's the equivalent here - child repeats a myth told to infants. Do you just say 'we'll not talk about that'?

Anyway, I would say that 'age appropriate' is for 7 year olds to know that Santa isn't real. Looking at the publication date of a book I had as a child, I knew that by the time I was 5 - and I'm not sure if I really ever thought he was real.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #121
127. if the kid says it in biology class or sex ed, it's relevant.
in a 2nd grade class, I think it's fair enough to simply not go there. Do you have kids of your own? 7 year olds can still be pretty little. I mean, I knew I was an Atheist at 7 and certainly had figured out that Santa wasn't real, but I think it's legit to cut some of the other kids some slack at that age.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
52. I agree
She should have kept quiet.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Reminds me a of a thread about slave transport...
... that was shown to school kids.

It included torture and rape and the answer was "Well, it happened, so its OK to show it"

There are age limit ranges ranges for many subjects.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. She should have deftly changed the subject. Real teachers do that.
Seriously. When subject such as this come up, real teachers know how to handle them.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #32
47. "Real teachers?"
Aren't we smug...

Frankly, I'm glad I didn't have teachers who changed the subject when kids ask questions. And kids know when adults are full of shit because they change the subject.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #47
63. Smug? No, just trained well enough to know that certain subjects
are not appropriate for classroom discussion and are up to the family.

When I taught, I wouldn't have let the discussion get away from me like that.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
48. All classes in Nanuet, New York are filled by Christian children
:sarcasm:

:rofl:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
118. Wow, you have a severe lack of imagination if you see only one alternative repsonse.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
41. Teachers are supposed to tell the truth and educate their students
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 08:03 AM by _ed_
Santa Claus is a lie. That's a fact. School is where you learn facts.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #41
70. Perhaps during a discussion of the great lakes,
he should tell the class that poor people can't be president, that politicians are not looking out for the country, or that presidents aren't afraid to lock people up without charges. Perhaps he can also mention that he's an asshole. All are the truth and therefore are okay for second graders.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
119. Do you NOT grasp the age-group involved and their belief system?
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
91. What is it if it's not true?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
139. Educators have a responsibility to educate, not to foster delusional thinking
If you want deluded children, try home schooling.
It seems to work best for that kind of thinking.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. As reported by a 7 year old
:eyes:
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. It is so sad to see so many people on this site that complain about
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 01:28 AM by Angry Dragon
others' beliefs.............

I also find it so sad that you are so sure of what you believe, but yet you can not prove a damn thing

This is not directed at the OP poster
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Wait, do we need to tiptoe around Santa believers now too?
:rofl:
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. When they are small children, you temper yourself. nt
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. it is sad when people's beliefs trump facts in an educational setting.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
72. It is equally sad when people howl about keeping religion out of schools
yet applaud like a fat baby when a teacher decides it's time to set kids straight about Santa Claus.

Your move.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #72
114. Aren't they the same thing?
She tried to keep religion out of her class by replying to a geography misconception that the North Pole was 'where Santa lives' by pointing out he's not real. It's like keeping creationism out of a science class - you don't have to 'teach the controversy'.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. It's understandable that 2nd graders might not be ready for the truth
but, really, grownups should be able to deal with it, for fuck's sake.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
90. You are absolutely right.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. blasphemer!!!
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
16. Once kids are old enough to go to school
they are too old to believe in Santa. 3rd grade is too old to believe in Santa, unless they are mentally challeneged.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. Obviously, you have no children. nt
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
49. You're right, I don't.
But I remember being told the truth at age 6 when my mom realized that I was seriously, steadfastly, determined to sit up all night and wait for him. :D

I think it's unkind to maintain the illusion when kids get to be a certain age. It's just too babyish! It's like wanting to keep your children infantile, in my opinion.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #49
67. I feel sorry for you. That's terrible. I would have simply let you stay up and carried
you to bed when you finally slept.

Or I would have told you that Santa doesn't come until you are asleep.

But I would not have burst your bubble.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #67
84. I was pretty good at arguing and belaboring points from a young age.
Pretty sure my mom tried to tell me that Santa doesn't show up until you're asleep, but I must have asked too many questions that she couldn't answer, like "how?" and "why?". I just wasn't buying it. I might have already suspected something was fishy about Santa.

But it's not like I wasn't going to learn the truth someday anyway. I don't know what would be the ideal way to break the news to children. But at some point, it becomes too babyish.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
88. Even if you're right (and you're not), kids still go to school for two years before 3rd grade
Families have lot of fun with Santa. Many kids like the decorations, the stories/songs/movies, putting out cookies and carrots, rushing downstairs to see what he brought them on Christmas morning, etc. I know I did. Eventually I realized that there was no Santa and I moved on. But before I did, believing in him led to a lot of fond memories and good times. It's called BEING A CHILD!
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. Some things need to be left for the parents decision n/t
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. then don't send you kids to public school
cause there is alot more that they are gonna learn there...beyond Santa Claus buddy
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. in the second grade I doubt it
but then I guess it depends on what part of the country you live in.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
80. And don't send them out to play with other kids!
Heck most of the time it's the other kids that reveal the truth about SC!
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
42. Then home school your children
Don't expect the school system to support every absurd lie you tell your kids about the world. This is just the same as creationists demanding religious education in schools. Not every culture celebrates Santa.
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. grinch!!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #42
141. and don't let them talk to other children, or watch any secular media, or listen to adults
talking about reality... what absurdity

... gotta protect them from reality as long as possible :rofl:

Be good all year long or you get nothing once a year .. works for me if you are training slaves :rofl:
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
93. Absolutely correct.
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
23. Kids grow up way too fast and are exposed...
to a lot they probably shouldn't be. These are 7 year olds, and if they still believe in Santa, why should a teacher ruin it for them? Adults tell lots of white lies, even in the context of the educational classroom-Santa Claus really should be the least of anyone's concerns. I think that's pretty harsh and a little sad.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
24. Another kid would probably say something eventually
because they like to be "all grown up" by that age. Although the teacher should have just moved on, parents have to realize by the time their kids are in school, they are going to learn the truth about Santa, sooner rather than later. If you don't want a teacher, or more likely another kid, then do it yourself when they start going to school.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. I remember in the 3rd grade the whole class laughed at a girl who believed in Santa.
She was crying afterward.

I don't know what felt worse for her... hearing that Santa isn't real, or getting laughed at by the whole class.
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BadgerKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
29. What makes one myth more acceptable or persistent than another?
I guess I'll throw the question out there.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
50. Santa Claus is a rather effective money-making operation
disguised as some weird fetish for an "enchanted" childhood.
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avebury Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #50
82. Agreed. nt
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
59. Has every President from George Washington to Barack Obama believed in Santa Claus? (nt)
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demicritic Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
31. A muslim teacher in New York
That teacher I think could be a Muslim or a non-Santa believer. Or maybe she did not experience Christmas in her whole lifetime.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #31
51. Wow...you have zero evidence of that at all
If this kind of evidence-free bigotry is how you introduce yourself to this community, I don't have much hope for your posting life here.

:rofl:
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #51
73. +1. Hit the nail right on the head.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
92. New York, eh?
Might even be Jee-YOOOOO-wish, huh.

Whaddaya think?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #31
143. ALERT!
Bash delusional thinking all you want, but don't bash a respected sector of the American population. What's with the bigotry?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
37. The teacher is correct
What really annoyed me is the NBC idiot asking people to vote on whether the teacher should be disciplined.

They appear to be more worried about this truth than they were about the Bush lies.
Up is down - in is out!!
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
38. What an idiot she is.
It should be up to the parents.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #38
44. What if you lie to your kids until they are in high school
Should high school teachers be held to your standard as well? Or what level of teaching should you stop supporting myths?

Can you provide a list of myths that public school teachers should be forced to perpetuate in schools?

This is a non-story. A teacher gave correct, factual information in a classroom. End of story.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
39. Great - grownups feel the need to say the teacher is lying
"That's so untrue"
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/12/01/ny-teacher-accus... /
Fuck it, the teacher gives the credit to the parents who actually get the presents, and gets called a liar for her pains. OK, we'll tell Donna Murphy's children that she's a cheapskate who doesn't love them at all, and all their presents come from the government. Would that satisfy her?
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
43. Second grade is a little old for Santa isn't it?
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. It sure is. I'm agog at the idea that the PARENTS are taking the teacher
to task for revealing that Santa is a story. These kids are 7 years old, fer Chrissake. When did the parents think their kids were going to find out? When they were 12? They should be happy that the teacher was the one to bust the lie, rather than they themselves.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #46
81. If parents want that much control of what their children know
Then they've got to home school and keep the child away from other kids.

Unhealthy control freakishness is what it is.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #43
56. lol - I made my stories more and more elaborate as my daughter figured it out
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 09:13 AM by TBF
"well, the boxes are on the stoop because mommy and daddy order the big presents and santa brings the ones for the stockings"

That was when she was 4 ... now I don't even bother and put out the gifts as I wrap them. She is 8 now and my younger child never liked the Santa thing - he kept trying to pull his beard off etc when I took him for pictures.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #56
66. My mom kept it going for awhile.
But I was pretty gullible as a child. :D
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #43
69. Send your kids to my place so I can decide some stuff for them in your place, OK?
I know better than you, after all.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
75. I believed in Santa until I was almost in middle school, so you shut up.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
107. My kid's 2nd grade class has a majority of believers. Santa leaves my
daughter letters.

So does Tinkerbell.

So does the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

Last year, a fundy Xtian child told her there was no Santa, and she refused to believe him.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
53. That's one short-sighted person. And, ,,, a teacher? That's scary.
What's next, spending free time torturing and killing imaginary friends?
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
55. Early exposure to Santatheism.
Better watch out. Tell the kids too early, and they might apply the same doubt to religion....
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Yep :-) nt
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
108. My atheist daughter believes in Santa Claus, nt
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
110. Change the position of the "n" is Santa and you have Satan
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
60. Being a jerk rarely helps one be a good teacher.
Rather than take the class off on "does Santa exist" tangent, a good teacher, teaching GEOGRAPHY would have allowed the quick discussion of the North pole, and then could have said ... something like this ...

"OK ... if we wanted to find a Leprechaun, where might we go?"

Or ...

"If we wanted to find Nemo, where would we go?"

Or ...

"What if we wanted to find a Lion that's not in a Zoo?"

That's the kind of approach a good teacher would have used. Whether the teacher was being honest with them is irrelevant. Doing this did nothing to advance the lesson, and probably brought it to a screeching halt.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #60
65. Good approach... nt
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
61. If that's what happened, the teacher was out of line
there are always 2 sides to every story & often the one that's made it to the paper has been exaggerated beyond recognition.

dg
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RobertDevereaux Donating Member (640 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
62. Santa and TF not real? Balderdash!
These teachers need a copy of SANTA STEPS OUT!

http://www.amazon.com/Santa-Steps-Out-Robert-Devereaux/... /

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firehorse Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
68. She's what I call a: Ruiner
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
122. EXACTLY. The kind who reveals endings of mysteries. "The policeman is the killer!" type.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
74. Was it said that her heart was...two sizes too small?
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
77. Older siblings
So what do you do when you have kids with a big age difference between them? My daughters are 5 years apart. When my younger daughter was in 2nd grade, her sister was in 7th grade. It was difficult to keep the older child from "slipping" about Santa to her younger sister. We said that Santa brought presents to the little kids ONLY, and that Mom and Dad bought presents for their bigger sisters and brothers, and each other. We were able to give big sister an "out" for a time with that one. ;)
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
86. Get your unisex body suits here.
There are lots of Scrooges in this thread -- everyone loves educational purity, until you start talking about genetic preponderance toward crime and stupidity, the lack of one in regard to homosexuality and the effect of consumer behavior on the concentration of wealth.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
87. Scrooge isn't real.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. Sure he is, but his real name is Cheyney :) (nt)
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
104. I support the teacher. Don't kids outgrow that Santa/fairy tale BS by age 6?
I think I did around that time. Teachers are obliged to correct their students when students express misconceptions. Otherwise these children will grow up to see Fox News and hate radio as truth.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. No, The majority of kids in my daughters 2nd grade class believe.
And why shouldn't they?

Tell you what--you can go and have some kids, and then sit them down when they are still small and tell them the 'truth' about the world.

You can even be one of those parents that use your kid to push your agenda by encouraging them to tell other kids.

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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #104
116. What's wrong with allowing Kids
to have a fun fantasy?

What's next? The freaking tooth fairy? Must everything be shoved down their throats so early?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #116
144. What's wrong with educators supporting delusions? Everything!
What's wrong with cultures supporting delusions? Everything!

Someday, the truth will suffice.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #104
123. Oh, brother.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
113. It was my 3rd grade teacher who outed santa
I think my mom was relieved.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
120. This teacher's hard-line "respect for facts" made liars out of parents of 7-yr-olds. NOT COOL.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
126. "allegations"
Allegations? Did she commit some sort of crime? I guess allegations could be used, but it makes it sounds like something wrong happened here.
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
129. The teacher is a jerk. If kids say Santa lives at the North Pole, then show them
where the North Pole is. There's no need to validate or deny what the kids believe in the process. Stupid jerk.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
135. Next thing you know, the kids will find out there is no Trickle Down from Saint Ronnie
:rofl: and that rabbits do not lay painted eggs :rofl:

The real cultural problem is that children are taught to be delusional!!
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Godhumor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
140. Wait...Santa isn't real?
Who the hell has been eating my cookies, then?
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octothorpe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #140
146. leprechauns
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
145. Santa is just for fun. That teacher was being a rude spoilsport. (nt)
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
147. What if the teacher said "Santa Claus is real and he lives at the North Pole"? What would you say?
Think about it. The full confidence and "faith" in the educator is at stake at all times. Geography is not taught in diverse versions according to individual beliefs.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
151. Every good Pagan and anthropologist knows that Santa is in fact real
He represents the disappearance of the sun and its resurrection so that we can live another year - and we had better acknowledge our place in nature or cease to exist as a species.

Stupid teacher missed a chance to explain our human history and reduced things to the materialistic view of an ancient icon.
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