Traitors? Sellouts? All this tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth...

[WilliamPitt]

I don't get it.

1. The Democrats are in the minority. This nomination wasn't going to be stopped. If the God of the Righteous swooped down from Heaven and denounced Alito from the top of the Capitol dome, Frist would have had Him arrested for disturbing the peace. A filibuster would have hardened the resolve of the 55 GOP Senators, and when the thing ran out of gas, Alito would be voted in. That's what happens when a party is in the minority. We lost this fight when we lost Congress in 1994, and when the Court handed Bush the election in 2000.

2. Alito is exactly, precisely the kind of judge Bush was going to nominate. This was known all the way back in 1999 when Bush's name first started to percolate as a potential candidate. Honestly, I see all this "I'm leaving the party!" stuff as a bad flashback to 2000. You might as well yell "I'm going to help guarantee that more crappy judges get nominated by a new Republican president in 2008!"

3. This is the important one: A FILIBUSTER AS BIG AND IMPORTANT AS THIS CANNOT BE THROWN TOGETHER IN THE LAST 72 HOURS BY TWO SENATORS AND A HANDFUL OF BLOGGERS. It takes weeks and weeks of preparation, pressure and straight horse-trading. This wasn't going to succeed because nobody took the lead on getting it started until the deal was mostly done. We had 91 days from the time he was tapped to the vote yesterday, but an organized push for a filibuster only started on Thursday. Is that a failure of Senate Democrats? Sure. But is it also a failure on our part for not pushing collectively much sooner than last week? Sure.

4. As for leaving the party, it is hard to argue that these congressional Democrats are anything other than a pack of boobs who couldn't find their asses with a flashlight and a map. But I have this dream that sustains me. It's a pretty simple one. I dream of John Conyers, Jr. of Michigan walking into the Judiciary Committee hearing room and taking the head seat as Committee Chairman. It will take 15 House wins all across the country in November to see my dream become reality. It will take seven wins all across the country to put Senators Kerry and Kennedy into Chairmanships of their own. Take the energy you put into this Alito fight and ram it right into that cause. It is a worthy one. Don't leave the party. Become the party.

[Beetwasher]

1. All That Matters Is

The Pats aren't in the SB this year. ;-)

[WilliamPitt]

7. Ah shaddap

:)

I'm going to Pittsburgh with my friend Dan, who is from there, to watch the game at his dad's bar. Should be fun.

2. Yes we need to have the majority in congress

And a longer view.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Sensible assessment and recommendation.

K & R

And thanks, Will. I feel much better.

[emulatorloo]

4. thnks, esp for number 4 EOM

[katsy]

5. Frustration.

I'm guilty of it. Wanted to walk away from the Dems.

Then I found 25 good people to support.

[kentuck]

6. Our number one priority should be to take back the people's House...

That is where we need to start.

[Strawman]

14. And that effort begins with winning control of state legislatures

We need to be the ones drawing the districts if we want to win and hold the House.

[Catrina]

20. Every time there is a major election, or important vote to confirm

a Bush nominee, what happens? How many nominations have been stopped? Each time, Democrats cross over and support the Republicans.

How many times have Republicans done that?

This is the most corrupt administration in living memory, but 19 Democrats, once again, crossed over and backed the other party, handing another win to a man who should not even be permitted to decide what to eat for breakfast.

They could have abstained, of voted 'no'. To be honest, I'm tired of these losses.

It's foolish to think that Nov. will be any different, because even though the Democrats, once again, bent over for them, the right will be as vicious towards them as they always are.

I'm not into being abused ~ and then sucking up to the abuser. There's a lot to think about, but sometimes I wonder if the country needs to sink faster into the abyss planned for it by the neocons.

Sometimes it's no use warning people of danger, they need to experience it before they wake up. All we seem to be doing is wasting energy fending off the inevitable.

Defeat after defeat in spite of all that is known, means we are doing something very wrong. To keep repeating it, and hoping for a different result, is not too smart, imo.

We have a third party within this party and they will never let the Dems have a victory imo. It's becoming more and more obvious every day.

They heard loudly from their base this time, and they ignored them ~ and the same few real Democrats listened. It's getting pretty predictable and anyone with half a brain knows something different has to happen ~ right now, I'm not sure what!

[kentuck]

25. I would agree with one point about a Third Party...

It would make the Democratic Party swing more to the left, assuming the Third Party was more to the left. They would have to move left or lose voters to the Third Party. Would that be good or bad? That's debatable, i guess??

[femrap]

51. What we need is another Perot....we need someone to

split the pugs! That would be sweet! That's the reason Clinton was elected.

[specimenfred1984]

42. I Can Tell You What's Going To Happen...

1000s of women will die from botched abortions. The fascists are going to try to steal everyone's healthcare. 1000s more will die in useless fake wars based on trumped-up lies. The sick and the elderly will be dying by the 1000s too, due to lack of money. The fascists will be passing laws that practically make it legal to steal every asset we have.

I know it, you know it, most dems who aren't paid-off fascists know it. We democrats need to get these fascist liars out of office now, right now in 2006. Tell everyone you know, give money to big orgs that tell everyone, stay active however you can do it.

Call yourself whatever you want to call yourself but the fight is the same and if we lose, we could be stuck like Nazis in Germany in the 30s.

[Strong Atheist]

8. K&R. nt.

[BonnieJW]

9. I am with you, Will, but

tell me how we can do that when the elections are fixed? How can we get "them" out and get "ours" in when Diebold is running the show? I have signed every petition that comes my way demanding that my state (Virginia) run elections with verifiable paper trails and manual random audits. But I'm told it won't happen by 2006 even if the states cooperate. Also, how do we get a person to run in 2008 who is like Howard Dean? Who will speak the truth and attract our energy and allegiance?

[WilliamPitt]

13. Frankly

I do not accept nor believe the "Diebold is running the show" claim. It's a cop-out, an excuse to sit on our asses.

Sure, it's a problem. But there was not one - not one - electronic touch-screen voting machine in Ohio. That wasn't Diebold; it was good old-fashioned election theft.

These machines are not everywhere yet, and can be overcome by a concerted effort.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

26. It's not just diebold

Every county that has a centralized tabulator and doesn't keep the individual precinct level vote totals is easy to hack, just by accessing the central computer and changing the precinct totals.

I've been in information technology almost 20 years and these systems are so easy to hack it looks like they are designed for it. Otherwise there would be an audit trail and the kind of preventative measures any bank takes when keeping track of money.

It's not a cop-out, unless somebody uses it for one, it's simply another roadblock.

[byronius]

39. California was going Diebold -- but I think the popular uproar

made McPherson back off. They're still trying, but now with Debra Bowen holding hearings, they don't have much wriggle room. I think any focus on this issue makes it tougher and tougher on them. They need dark, damp places to fester -- and the sun's coming out. Especially on DU.

[femrap]

53. I think you are wrong about that....some counties had Diebold in '04.

Now over half do. And Wally has resigned....and the msm never covered it. It was barely mentioned here. And the central tabulators....can't they be played with? Ohio is Karl Rove's Lab Rat. His successes here will be coming to your state soon.

Votes were 'flip-flopped' from Kerry to w. And there was Rove laughing all thru the campaign....'those dems are so stupid....we are telling them exactly what we are going to do to their votes.'

I honestly feel that people who don't believe in stolen elections are in deep denial....because it is just too terrifying to accept the fact that are elections are a sham. I've worked with these evil people in business and they are soooo capable of doing this....and laughing about it....it's a game to them.

You don't think Rove would do whatever it takes to GUARANTEE the election? That's fascism. Stolen elections are part of it.

I am just amazed that I have to convince you....and I am sick of telling dem candidates that they better be watching Blackwell...he's running for Governor of Ohio and he counts the votes!!! So who do you think is going to win? I talked to Strickland about is...he, too, is in total denial. STOLEN ELECTIONS MUST BE A CAMPAIGN ISSUE FOR GODDESS'S SAKE!

It's a very sore subject for us Ohio Progressives....a VERY sore subject. We worked our asses off for 'Reform Ohio Now' (RON)...the poll taken before the election vs. the results were UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE!!! I know Blackwell is playing with the numbers...he counts the damn votes. If it can happen in Ohio, your state just may next!

That was a bit of a rant...but I was born in this damn state, then left for a number of years. Now I am back and I don't recognize the state....Rove is ruining it. We are his little Lab Rat. My hope is that the rat becomes rabid and turns on Rove and his corrupted pals.

[okieinpain]

40. oh the elections are not fixed. yes the repugs pull every trick in the

book. but it's nothing that can't be overcome by good organization. I don't care what people say, kerry blew it in ohio, he should have had his people all over every trick that blackwell pulled. but in the end he just walked away.

if racist ass, back water oklahoma can elect a dem governor, and he is a dem govenor. then we can win anywhere.

[calimary]

46. Well, this is a worthy question, but it seems to stop everybody then and

there.

I suggest we render this argument irrelevant.

FUCK Diebold.

Just FUCK IT.

What we need to do is what the Plaid Adder here and others have advocated. Will, I think you've pointed this out somewhere, too. It's been Howard Dean's quest since he took over the party chairmanship. JUST FUCK DIEBOLD. Don't waste another nanosecond on it. Go local. NOW.

(snip)

We start at the bottom, in the races nobody cares about. School boards, comptrollers, secretaries of state. We start local. City, county, state. Forget the presidency. We've had two bullshit elections and no reason to believe 2008 will be clean. Start now, focus now, on putting People Who Get It in charge of the basic machinery of the party.

From now on, there is only one litmus test. Candidates fall into two categories: People Who Get It and Part Of The Problem. The ultimate goal is for PWGI to recover the broken machinery of government so that we can set it right. For those of you who are talking about leaving the party, I don't blame you one bit. As my partner was once told regarding her continued quest to take back the Catholic Church: some will leave, and that will be the work of the Holy Spirit; some will stay, and that will also be the work of the Holy Spirit. You think it's lonely and heartbreaking to be a Democrat who gets it right now, well, try being a GBLT Catholic. The point is: if you leave, fine, but all y'all better ORGANIZE. Start or join a party that can put some REAL pressure on the Democratic power elite. Get out, meet each other, and start something. In or outside of the party, I don't care, as long as you tap into the well of disgust and alarm that is seeping across the country as a result of this administration's theft, tyranny, and incompetence.

(snip)

The Plaid Adder
From DU thread:
No Regrets, No Tears, No Fucking Quarter.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x274742


I have found, unfortunately, because it IS a worthwhile point to make, many people get awfully discouraged, awfully quickly, when it's pointed out to them that the game must be rigged, so how can we possibly win it, ever?

How 'bout we stop thinking about it, entirely? Go AROUND it. It's the front door that's locked, bolted, and cemented shut, that's true. So is the back door. But are you absolutely sure all the side windows and air conditioning ducts and heater vents are, also? You sure about that? For me, I seriously doubt it. When the Enterprise crew faced the Borg and other seemingly invincible opponents that sure looked as though they had everything, everywhere locked up, I seem to remember Doctor Crusher speculating about the giant who might have to stop a moment to scratch, when bitten by an itty bitty mosquito or stung by some itty bitty bee or some such little insignificant annoyance. Maybe that little nothing isn't such a nothing after all. Remember David, too, from the Old Testament. He wasn't some big-ass WWF steroid sucker with flame throwers and Sherman tanks in his arsenal. We need to start at the bottom and work our way up. It's what grover norquist did. It's what ralph reed did. Look where they are now (well, never mind their sleeping with jack-off abramoff...) - they seeded this set of abominations years ago, and never gave up. Never lost sight of the ultimate takeover goal. Never let their eyes slip off the prize. EVER. And they own it all now.

THAT is what WE need to do. Granted, our victory, like theirs, will not come as quickly as we'd like. There's a NYTimes article that indicates this particular scheme was hatched by the Dark Siders in 1982.

January 30, 2006
In Alito, G.O.P. Reaps Harvest Planted in '82
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK - NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/30/politics/politicsspecial1/30alito.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print


Took 'em 26 YEARS to make it happen. I think if we start now, with more passion than they had then, it won't take us 26 years to take back our country, our courts, and our Constitution.

I think for all those who worry (QUITE understandably) that Diebold has us beaten before we even start playing, there's too much of a risk of throwing up one's hands and giving up, because in effect, we've already lost, so what's the use. THAT THINKING WILL KILL US. So do we just admit defeat and go away, sobbing and searching for dry kleenex, pathetic and disheartened, while the Dark Side only laughs at us? Do we REALLY want to do that?

Yeah, I'd like instant gratification, too. But the kind of change and reform and restoration I think we here all agree that our country needs will take time to build.

Just remember this:

1) FUCK DIEBOLD. I don't even want to hear about it anymore. It's IRRELEVANT. ESPECIALLY if it freezes good folks here in their tracks and turns them to despair.

2) START WORKING LOCALLY. That's where all politics is, anyway, isn't it?

3) EYES ON THE PRIZE. CONservatives OUT. LIBERALS IN. As the Plaid Adder would say - "No Regrets, No Tears, No Fucking Quarter."

4) No Fucking Quarter? Indeed. And NO PRISONERS, EITHER.

5) Keep this in mind, too: THEY CAN'T BUILD ENOUGH GITMOS TO HOLD US ALL. I don't care HOW MANY Halliburtons they have on the payroll. Every time they get one of us down or out, just make sure there are at least four to six to take each of our places.

HUGS!

calimary

[Dr Fate]

10. #1 is speculation/excuse. #2 is a media talking point, #3 is BULL SHIT

...because DEMS could have voted "no" instead of "yes"- they knew this was coming for weeks and could have prepared earlier, if they really wanted to fight. So it's our fucking fault they cant listen to us or have their finger on our pulse?

#4- Yeah Conyers. I'll send him money.

[janx]

11. I've been asking the same questions today.

The filibuster wasn't going to stop Alito. We don't have the votes, period, and until we do, pinning our hopes on a filibuster is a waste of time. It's fairly desperate, in fact.

[mzmolly]

62. Hey sister! Good to see your round these parts!

:hi:

[Old and In the Way]

12. Keerist, I truely get tired of agreeing with you.

What I don't understand is why we keep electing Democrats that have problems reading a Democratic script while Republicans keep electing people that lose their moral compass as soon as they enter the Capitol.

[second edition]

15. I blame reid mostly, I expected him to carry the ball since we let

Roberts go without a whimper.I have learned a lesson from this, don't assume anything. I shouldn't have just figured Reid would fight this appointment. I should have pushed him to do something. Imagine what we could have accomplished if we had started earlier.
I still think Kerry and Kennedy did what they thought was correct, especially when Kerry saw our party leaders were doing absolutely nothing.

[bridgit]

16. well he's in...

on to the next battle.

[TahitiNut]

17. IMHO, the divisions and ideological cowardice shown ...

... by the Senate Democrats virtually guarantees that they'll not gain sufficient seats in either house to gain a majority in 2006. Indeed, I'm inclined to believe the possibility of their LOSING seats in one or both houses has been increased materially by their appalling display of clay feet. John and Jane Q. Public see less and less reason to vote Democratic. "All politics is local" and it's clear that Republican Senators and Representatives "bring home the pork." (Look at how the Homeland Security dollars have been spent. Look at how New Orleans hasn't even been thrown a life preserver while Mississippi is doing nicely, thank you. (It doesn't have to be reality - merely perception.)

[Skip Intro]

18. K&R.

was saying much the same thing last night in this related thread - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=277242&mesg_id=277242

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. We knew we weren't going to win.

I just wanted to see who would stand for Democratic principles. Honestly, I didn't expect it to be so bleak a vote. I only expected to lose by one or two votes. I understand now how hopeless it is to bank on the party as a party, but I am not a registered Democrat, so maybe I was never convinced from the beginning.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

21. What's so hard about a filibuster?

You just refuse to allow debate to be closed.

It only takes 41 votes to sustain it. If the pugs go nuclear, they do so at their peril. It's a very unpopular alternative.

It was a win/win for us if we could sustain it. First of all, Alito is a hard-right Federalist Society ideologue and no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig. Any legal measure that kept him off the bench was a winner.

Secondly, I think forcing the pugs to put up or shut up regarding the "nuclear option" would have been a winner for us in November. If they break over 100 years of tradition and the rules of the Senate, they look like power-mad jackasses. If they don't, they are flip-floppers.

What I don't understand is why anyone who is voting no on the nomination voted yes for cloture when it's clear he'll be confirmed. That is such a pointless, hollow exercise in hypocrisy.

[Lorien]

36. Agreed. A filibuster required common sense and a concern for

country above all-it was hardly an action that included the mobilization of ground troops and heavy equipment to a far away land.They were making a choice to either stand and fight for their country or back down for fear that they might get called nasty names again. Besides, if it were so impossible then why did Kerry and Kennedy even make the attempt? Political grandstanding?

What we need is true leadership and revolution within our party, not more rationalization for the inexcusable. Remaining on this path will only lead to our complete demise.

[More Than A Feeling]

22. Mr. Pitt, where do you stand on primarying the "Alito 19"?

Could you discuss that a little? It would help me understand which "tearing of hair and nashing of teeth" you are referring to. Personally, I don't consider planning to make an example of the Democrats who voted wrong on this to be so, but perhaps you have a different take.

[Matariki]

23. 3/4 of the Democratic Senators responded to our call for a filibuster

I'm going to keep repeating that until it sinks in. You are absolutely right, it was a last minute thing, and it is very a positive sign that so many of them *did* vote for the filibuster.

[Norquist Nemesis]

24. I don't blame the Democrats, I blame the Republicans

Lock Step. Not a single one voted country over party. Not one.

Had there been 10 moderate Republicans who voted their conscience rather than their party, it would have been a slim one vote margin but it still would have been a No. The Democrats who voted to hold on to their seats in Con states wouldn't have mattered.

[bobalu]

27. I disagree with your equating our responsibility ...

with those of our "leaders" in the Senate...

In no way do I discount the importance of the kind of activism shown on this board, but Please...THEY are the supposed "leaders", whom we PAY, support and campaign for...

..and I'm getting a little tired of the expectation that our obligation has grown to the point of our needing to practically wipe their asses for them...

I don't recommend leaving the party, but I DO recommend kicking out the lame shits who voted for cloture and after all that was done by DUers here, myself included, I feel neither guilt nor responsibility! guilty!}(

[Lerkfish]

28. well said, and all....but I would respectfully point out that sometimes

doing the right thing, regardless of outcome, is called "taking a stand". There are dems who did so, and I applaud them.
People want leaders that take stands for what is right. We've had enough of leaders who try to save their own political bacon.


The climate is this: we are on the brink of outright fascism in this country. It will be the more improved, higher tech fascism, but
it will be fascism nonetheless. Standing up to the fascists might not always be successful, but NOT standing up to them is worse.

[Lars39]

29. No excuses.

They could have risen up and done what was right,not what was expedient.

[LoZoccolo]

30. I'm recommending this! n/t

[G_j]

31. then why didn't they give themselves more than 72 hrs.?

sounds like Bush saying we never quessed Katrina would be so bad, or foresaw planes flying into buildings, etc.

[Not_So_Right_Wing]

32. They could have done more...

the fianl vote proves it.

[Catrina]

35. Exactly! 42 voted 'no' ~

The vote was symbolic ~ if they were going to vote no on the nomination, why not continue to debate and perhaps change a few more minds? The 'no' vote was political, imo. The cloture vote was the real test ~ and once again, they failed.

[bigtree]

33. we gotta get the Congress back

this party is the best vehicle we have. It has resources, organization, and our representatives are already in positions of power. We need to exercise these levers harder. We need to pressure them more, not less. Our quitting would be certain victory for the opposition. It would make us no better than the weak ones we rightly criticize.

But, I have a soft spot for the ones who are new to these types of fights. Many a vote I've sat and watched cloture motions pass with Democrat's help. Many a moment I've dissolved into a sea of anguish. My solution. Dig in more! Push harder. Switch gears. On to impeachment. On to hearings about Bush and warrantless wiretapping, on to Abramoff hearings, on to Fitzsummer . . . YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

[realFedUp]

34. There was plenty of time to organize

But this party always seems to want to be polite and
wait for hearings before speaking out on a nominee's
published record. I am grateful to TrueMajority,
PFAW, MoveOn, the ACLU et al for trying to get out
the info...mostly to the choir but unfortunately
as always there weren't small soundbites in the
media or from politicians scaring Americans about this man's agenda.

Soundbites, not speeches.

The penalties for voting for Alito and nominees like
him should be great, including losing their seats.

[jpgray]

37. Finally! The charge of the sanity and sense brigade

Which some will call the SS just to sneak a Nazi reference in to refute your argument. :D But nice work. :thumbsup:

[seabeyond]

38. gosh i so misread your post

so sorry. still a little pissed, if you cant tell. another sorry, hugest of smiles. glad i re read

[eggman67]

41. Hey, stop with the logic and reason ;) n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

43. Obviously, there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting

any republicans to vote against Alito. But, the dems who did? Why did they do that? Byrd? Voted for a man who ruled against increased safety for coal miners.

Is the only issue left in this country abortion? Do these people really not care that the Constitution is being spat upon by some of the 'decisions'.

I totally understand the republicans, but not the dems. I never will.

And, FWIW, I have absolutely no intention of leaving.

[AntiFascist]

66. Repug votes weren't the issue anyway, why was cloture

agreed to so easily by these Dems when their constituents were just starting to ask serious questions about Alito's background? For cloture to happen so soon was unprecedented in the recent history of supreme court nominations. This raises serious questions about their motives and they need to be voted out of office. ngu.

[mmonk]

44. Gnash gnash

If we had a free press or at least a vehicle with huge circulation to tell our story and what's going on, we might could have a chance (especially broadcast media).

[donco6]

45. No! No! No!

No, we must all die on our swords - twice if necessary! We must embark on futile escapades! The more futile the better! It makes good TV! And then we should fire everyone! And vote out our own party members, too! Gnash Gnash!

In case you missed it: :sarcasm:

Jeez - the last two days have been so full of juvenile nuttiness, I can hardly stand to visit around here.

[jobendorfer]

47. Will, some thoughts in response

Point One:
: "The Democrats are in the minority. This nomination wasn't going to be stopped."

- Control of the Senate comes when you have 60 seats. The Republicans have 55. This
was a failure of leadership and will.

- Even if the filibuster eventually collapsed, the mere act of filibustering for as
long as possible brings the following benefits:

a) sends the message that the Senate Democratic contingent is fighting hard to protect
the interests of its constituents

b) every day the filibuster continues is a day that the Republicans have to spend
their time, money, and energy justifying their nominee, and probably just as important,
it's one LESS day that they can spend raping the environment, raiding the public treasury,
building up for their next crazy war, etc, etc.


Point Two:
: "Alito is exactly, precisely the kind of judge Bush was going to nominate."

Yep. Which is why, back about November 15, 2000, the Senate Democratic leadership should
have told Bush and the press, in so many words: bush lost the popular vote. He won by
judicial fiat. The Republicans have a small advantage in the Senate. None of this
translates to a mandate for acknut judicial nominees, and all such nominees are DOA.
Send us moderates." That frame should have been established long ago ... and we wouldn't
be where we are today. Another failure of leadership, although obviously that's not
Reid's fault. (Daschle couldn't find his *ss with both hands AND a flashlight.)


Point Three:
: "A FILIBUSTER AS BIG AND IMPORTANT AS THIS CANNOT BE THROWN TOGETHER IN THE LAST 72 HOURS ..."

- Agreed. Although (at the risk of beating a dead horse): another colossal failure of
leadership. Reid should have been out front leading this effort, starting the day after
Alito was nominated ... because it's the right thing to do. Morally. Politically.
Tactically. Intuitively. Instinctively. The fact that he didn't speaks volumes to
me.


Point Four:
: "I dream of < Democrats retaking control of the House & Senate >"

Yes, a worthy dream and goal. But this is what I fear: whenever the Democrats do regain
control of Congress, and we start trying to unravel the damage of the last 6 - 8 - 10 or
however many years it is -- each move towards political, moral, or fiscal sanity made by
one element of the Democratic Senate will be undermined by no more than the usual 15-20
crossover votes by DINOs. Said another way: John Conyers by himself can't solve the
mountain of problems we face. We need 65 or 70 John Conyers', and I can't imagine how
we're going to get them if we keep forgiving -- and re-electing -- Senators that sell us
out on serious issues such as lifetime Judicial appointments and war votes.

The consequences of Alito's appointment to the court are going to outlast Bush. It's
going to have impacts that will reveberate for the next 40-50 years. (We will feel some
of the reverberations of the Warren court, and most of those guys have been in the ground
a LONG time.)

I think the Alito nomination has laid bare some very, very serious problems with the
Senate democratic contingent, and I think it's naive in the extreme to argue that "Well,
if we could just get control of Congress back, everything will be fine." The hell with
that: some serious corrective action is needed. Now.

Okay, offa my soap box, gotta get back to work.

J.

[Iowa]

58. Excellent post by jobendorfer...

Recommending this thread due to jobendorfer's post - a very rational and logical response to some condescending posts up-thread. Good job jobendorfer!

[IronLionZion]

48. DUers and Freepers can agree on one thing:

We need fewer Democrats in office.

Oh, and we need more running around like chickens with our heads cut off.

Oh yes, and less sensibility...and less thinking!

:sarcasm:

I hope DUers are just venting their frustrations and will remember in the morning that good people are running for office all across this country. Even our own DUers.

[Usrename]

49. What kind of dumbasses do you think we are?

Only needed 41 to stop him and 42 voted against him. Are you part of the leadership that arranged this debacle? Are you involved?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cheezus]

55. Kent Conrad (D? - ND). Yes on cloture, yes on confirmation.

Very popular Democrat up for reelection in a very red state.

Damn lucky Governor John Hoeven didn't run against him. Pretty safe otherwise.

[Usrename]

60. Yep, Byrd WV, Johnson SD, and Nelson NE also Y/Y

No argument there, though I disagree with them. (I am assuming that you are referring to the consistency of the vote, the previous post was deleted.) Seems not all that complicated really, either you think he should be on the bench or you don't. Nothing mysterious IMHO.

[David Zephyr]

50. Agreed.

There was never going to be filibuster. Never.

However, Senators Kerry and Clinton who supported the War in Iraq and the Patriot Act and the Homeland Defense Department got a chance to "appear" like they were fighting for the liberal wing of the Party ONLY after they knew there was no chance in hell for a filibuster to happen.

I think that the manipulation of well-meaning lefties by a few cynical politicians is sickening.

[bpilgrim]

52. yeah it's all in our heads

:eyes:

peace

[Blue_Roses]

56. K and R

well said

[Andromeda]

57. Thanks, Will...

I think many of us feel discouraged and depressed but not all of us are going to give up and quit the party.

A pack of congressional boobs can be replaced in time with strong Democrats with good political skills. I have that dream, anyway. Call me an eternal optimist but it feels better to be optimistic than it does to drag my chin on the ground.

What went wrong? A lot of things. We were probably a day late and a dollar short on Alito's confirmation, because right now our party is weak. The only way we can build it up is to win elections. It's not as easy as it sounds but anything is possible.

I have faith that we will.

[jobycom]

59. Most of us understand that. We're just letting the latest wave wear

down, then we can all get back to work. Minus the few obvious disruptors here to light fires, I hope. We'll be ready by spring. Even the insightful Will Pitt has lost his temper with the party from time to time, hasn't he? :-)

We're the Freakin' DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. We will kick the right asses when the time comes.

Anger is a gift, you know? ;-)

[mzmolly]

61. Marvelous post sir.

:toast:

[Cleita]

63. And Cindy Sheehan got thrown out of the speech, even though

she seemed to be nicely dressed, polite and invited. I doubt if she would have joined the standing ovation, but is this a reason to be arrested in a free and democratic country?

Or is the real story that "little boots" didn't want that woman around who ruined his vacation? Or, that other woman Katrina, who made him look like a doofus and the criminal fake that he is. Oh well I don't think you could arrest a force of nature if she should decide to attend, but really arrest Cindy?

[inheritthewind]

64. Hillary and Trent - The Odd Couple

This is my first message on DU. I've been lurking since 11/3/04 and DU helped me cope when I was so distraught. I finally registered tonight because of heavy traffic. Will Pitt - I always read your posts with interest, and I totally agree with your message here. I recently had to go through historical papers from my family, and I found two very old letters to my father from FDR. The one I remember right now was dated in early 1932, when FDR was Governor of NY and running for President, and was signed by FDR in his own hand. He thanked my father for his help and especially for being a good Democrat. That was a big WOW! My father was 59 when I was born and he died when I was 16, so I did not have much opportunity to learn about family history. One thing I do know is that he told me Nixon was a skunk, and when I was 7 years old, during the 1960 election between Kennedy and Nixon, my earliest political memory was paying my girlfriend Trudy Lawler a dime to vote for JFK. Of course, I didn't know we were not old enough to vote, and that I may have been breaking election laws. Did I care? I only remember that I was a Democrat then and I am now, and that I inherited that from my father and FDR. So, would I ever leave the party? NO! Would I ever vote Republican? NO! But I think we need a lot of reorganization, a coherent message, and elected representatives with strength and commitment. 2006 is major and I will do everything I can. The sad part is all the apathetic people who refuse to vote. And I mean, Refuse to Vote. I don't know what to do about them. But, thank you Will Pitt, and thank you to DU for showing me that I am not alone in my feelings. I don't understand why DU is not in the Bloggies awards contention. I used to visit Kos, and I still do sometimes, but DU is so full of wonderful activists - my people! Thank you to all DUers.

[calimary]

65. Hey, Welcome to DU!

I think one common thread you'll find all of us joining is the one that always says some version of "thank you to DU for showing me that I am not alone in my feelings." It's been a lifeboat for me for several years now. An island of sanity in the midst of a truly malevolent morass - filled with truly malevolent morASSes.

Glad you're here! It'll help keep you from losing all hope, believe me! I love it for the resource material - lots of VERY terrific links - what one online reviewer described as post-graduate-level debate and discussion of the issues, and some really intriguing and illuminating perspectives and analyses, not to mention political gossip. Plus, it's a great place to vent!